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10,000 Words of Power

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
this question comes up a lot. peach's fair and nair both have a 4 frame advantage on shield. dsmash hits on frame 5 and roll is invincible on frame 2. so if you do it frame perfectly, buffered roll will come out, but they will be hit on frame 1. otherwise, they can roll safely. frame perfect execution is really hard though, which is why peach players do mixups with slap and grab (slap comes out on frame 2, and grab keeps them from hiding in shield).

source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287033

edit: whoops my momory is bad, it's spot dodge that is invincible on frame 2, peach's roll at least is invincible on frame 4, which gives you a larger window. some characters do have spot dodges that go through the whole dsmash, but i forget the list. this seems to indicate that fc to grab on shield works only when frame perfect, but buffered spot dodge can ruin that strategy.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
yeah no one is ever frame perfect =[
Generally the buffered roll works lol

New Topic!
LE I was just thinking about this advanced tech, don't think you put it into your guide.
I don't know what to call it, but ASDI seems to affect grounded characters more or something. You see it in cases where fox uthrows someone onto a platform and then drills them: if they just hold away, they DI off the platform.

Here's an example in m2k vs pp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4m66qcF31Y#t=32s

you can see pp techs in place, but instead of teching the hit, he CC's it and falls over, OFF the platform.
It's a really nifty escape from marth's uthrow utilt on platform crap. Only works at certain mid-range percents though

I'm not sure how I'd organize that, but there are situations where not teching is better than teching because you can continue to fall off a platform to safety.

A third example: A fox wants to keep the other player on the platform, so he dthrows. They tech it and he is able to follow the tech and upsmash or otherwise punish. Instead, the opponent should just DI off the platform without a tech.
 

alboy4813

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
1
nice guide. i read through it all and i learned a couple things. And i know this doesn't have anything to do with this thread but will someone please tell me how i can create my own thread?
 

trahhSTEEZY

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
2,287
Location
vegas baby
just go to whatever forum you'd like to post in, and hit new post near the top left. below the advertisement in the top center.
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
yeah no one is ever frame perfect =[
Generally the buffered roll works lol

New Topic!
LE I was just thinking about this advanced tech, don't think you put it into your guide.
I don't know what to call it, but ASDI seems to affect grounded characters more or something. You see it in cases where fox uthrows someone onto a platform and then drills them: if they just hold away, they DI off the platform.

Here's an example in m2k vs pp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4m66qcF31Y#t=32s

you can see pp techs in place, but instead of teching the hit, he CC's it and falls over, OFF the platform.
It's a really nifty escape from marth's uthrow utilt on platform crap. Only works at certain mid-range percents though

I'm not sure how I'd organize that, but there are situations where not teching is better than teching because you can continue to fall off a platform to safety.

A third example: A fox wants to keep the other player on the platform, so he dthrows. They tech it and he is able to follow the tech and upsmash or otherwise punish. Instead, the opponent should just DI off the platform without a tech.
I forgot about this. It's somewhat related to "Momentum and Platforms" which is next to "CC techs", but I definitely didn't include it. Thanks! :D

Also, I've believe you can tech (I believe in place) and fall off the platform, but I'm not sure how its done. I know I've seen it/done it though. haha
 

Lit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
858
Location
Socal
Wow jason went off to purdue and made a full guide huh? Must be the big man on campus now. GET EM J LQTM. But damn, times has changed since we first picked up the sticks to play. It explains alot of common things people have trouble with and how to truly get better. Good ****, ima have to let derek read this.
 

goosefactor

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
1,953
I dont think hes joking, people.
He's not...Cunning just told him about this last week....

And this was minutes after he also learned that the startup from Falco's up-b doesn't hurt you....

looooool F'n TrAiLLLLL
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
lol people can't be serious.....

Also, I think I'll add that section on Super Theory Brothers Melee within the next few days. I will probably also add a section on doubles. Though I've been told I'm a solid teams player, I feel like I could learn more. I'll try to talk to Lovage, S2J, MacD, and Tink. They **** teams. lol
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
oh my god, trail you really never jc grabbed?
come to think of it, I recall watching you "miss" jc grabs often when you play
wow
 

Dior

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Saturn 💫
lol people can't be serious.....

Also, I think I'll add that section on Super Theory Brothers Melee within the next few days. I will probably also add a section on doubles. Though I've been told I'm a solid teams player, I feel like I could learn more. I'll try to talk to Lovage, S2J, MacD, and Tink. They **** teams. lol
Add that super theory brothers *****! Tink said your a solid teams player? Great more pratice for me!
 

Hindawg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
237
Location
St. Charles, IL//Peoria, IL
I have to give my honest opinion here, I think this thread took something simple and made it only slightly less simple.

All you have to know are SOME technical things and the rest comes with practice. I have only been playing for a few months and I beat people who have been playing for years. The good players beat me more than I beat them buts its not because they are more technical and its not because they have better DI, they beat me because they have PLAYED MORE and so they can recognize more situations and therefore adjust their actions sooner than I can.

I learned mix ups when someone told me "stop DIing in"
I learned combos when someone told me "you could have hit me there, I was still in hitstun"
I learned tech chasing when someone told me "I either have to get up in place or roll left or right"

I have to go mow my lawn now. You could go into detail about how a motor works and how the human legs work but I'm pretty sure all I have to do is walk back and forth in a straight line to get the job done.
 

Hindawg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
237
Location
St. Charles, IL//Peoria, IL
Yea I agree with that, I started to generate a list of those things in my other post but I didn't bother, it was things like L-cancel, JC Grab, short hopping, and anything else that has specific button inputs that isn't already in the official melee guide.
 

Lit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
858
Location
Socal
Damn school is rapping you huh, me to im about to go home this sunday son. Yes back to sunny California.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,039
Location
Portland, Oregon
Just read this, good **** man, prolly will read again later on this week. Prolly gonna try and steal some of that tech stuff for my Ice Climber MU guide too.
 
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