10,000 Words of Power

[john!]

this question comes up a lot. peach's fair and nair both have a 4 frame advantage on shield. dsmash hits on frame 5 and roll is invincible on frame 2. so if you do it frame perfectly, buffered roll will come out, but they will be hit on frame 1. otherwise, they can roll safely. frame perfect execution is really hard though, which is why peach players do mixups with slap and grab (slap comes out on frame 2, and grab keeps them from hiding in shield).

source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287033

edit: whoops my momory is bad, it's spot dodge that is invincible on frame 2, peach's roll at least is invincible on frame 4, which gives you a larger window. some characters do have spot dodges that go through the whole dsmash, but i forget the list. this seems to indicate that fc to grab on shield works only when frame perfect, but buffered spot dodge can ruin that strategy.

 

[darkatma]

yeah no one is ever frame perfect =[
Generally the buffered roll works lol

New Topic!
LE I was just thinking about this advanced tech, don't think you put it into your guide.
I don't know what to call it, but ASDI seems to affect grounded characters more or something. You see it in cases where fox uthrows someone onto a platform and then drills them: if they just hold away, they DI off the platform.

Here's an example in m2k vs pp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4m66qcF31Y#t=32s

you can see pp techs in place, but instead of teching the hit, he CC's it and falls over, OFF the platform.
It's a really nifty escape from marth's uthrow utilt on platform crap. Only works at certain mid-range percents though

I'm not sure how I'd organize that, but there are situations where not teching is better than teching because you can continue to fall off a platform to safety.

A third example: A fox wants to keep the other player on the platform, so he dthrows. They tech it and he is able to follow the tech and upsmash or otherwise punish. Instead, the opponent should just DI off the platform without a tech.

 

[alboy4813]

nice guide. i read through it all and i learned a couple things. And i know this doesn't have anything to do with this thread but will someone please tell me how i can create my own thread?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

just go to whatever forum you'd like to post in, and hit new post near the top left. below the advertisement in the top center.

 

[Little England]

yeah no one is ever frame perfect =[
Generally the buffered roll works lol

New Topic!
LE I was just thinking about this advanced tech, don't think you put it into your guide.
I don't know what to call it, but ASDI seems to affect grounded characters more or something. You see it in cases where fox uthrows someone onto a platform and then drills them: if they just hold away, they DI off the platform.

Here's an example in m2k vs pp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4m66qcF31Y#t=32s

you can see pp techs in place, but instead of teching the hit, he CC's it and falls over, OFF the platform.
It's a really nifty escape from marth's uthrow utilt on platform crap. Only works at certain mid-range percents though

I'm not sure how I'd organize that, but there are situations where not teching is better than teching because you can continue to fall off a platform to safety.

A third example: A fox wants to keep the other player on the platform, so he dthrows. They tech it and he is able to follow the tech and upsmash or otherwise punish. Instead, the opponent should just DI off the platform without a tech.

I forgot about this. It's somewhat related to "Momentum and Platforms" which is next to "CC techs", but I definitely didn't include it. Thanks! :D

Also, I've believe you can tech (I believe in place) and fall off the platform, but I'm not sure how its done. I know I've seen it/done it though. haha

 

[BunBun]

Tech near the edge and your momentum can carry you off sometimes.

 

[Lit]

Wow jason went off to purdue and made a full guide huh? Must be the big man on campus now. GET EM J LQTM. But damn, times has changed since we first picked up the sticks to play. It explains alot of common things people have trouble with and how to truly get better. Good ****, ima have to let derek read this.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

so i just learned how to jump cancel grab, i hear it's pretty good.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont think hes joking, people.

 

[john!]

so i just learned how to jump cancel grab, i hear it's pretty good.

oh my goodness gracious look out world

 

[goosefactor]

I dont think hes joking, people.

He's not...Cunning just told him about this last week....

And this was minutes after he also learned that the startup from Falco's up-b doesn't hurt you....

looooool F'n TrAiLLLLL

 

[Dekuschrub]

wait what about falcos up b??

 

[Juggleguy]

Wait, the startup of Falco's up-B doesn't hit?

 

[Little England]

lol people can't be serious.....

Also, I think I'll add that section on Super Theory Brothers Melee within the next few days. I will probably also add a section on doubles. Though I've been told I'm a solid teams player, I feel like I could learn more. I'll try to talk to Lovage, S2J, MacD, and Tink. They **** teams. lol

 

[Tomacawk]

oh my god, trail you really never jc grabbed?
come to think of it, I recall watching you "miss" jc grabs often when you play
wow

 

[Dior]

Best thread Little England has ever wrote in his lifetime. Good job buddy!

 

[Dior]

lol people can't be serious.....

Also, I think I'll add that section on Super Theory Brothers Melee within the next few days. I will probably also add a section on doubles. Though I've been told I'm a solid teams player, I feel like I could learn more. I'll try to talk to Lovage, S2J, MacD, and Tink. They **** teams. lol

Add that super theory brothers *****! Tink said your a solid teams player? Great more pratice for me!

 

[Hindawg]

I have to give my honest opinion here, I think this thread took something simple and made it only slightly less simple.

All you have to know are SOME technical things and the rest comes with practice. I have only been playing for a few months and I beat people who have been playing for years. The good players beat me more than I beat them buts its not because they are more technical and its not because they have better DI, they beat me because they have PLAYED MORE and so they can recognize more situations and therefore adjust their actions sooner than I can.

I learned mix ups when someone told me "stop DIing in"
I learned combos when someone told me "you could have hit me there, I was still in hitstun"
I learned tech chasing when someone told me "I either have to get up in place or roll left or right"

I have to go mow my lawn now. You could go into detail about how a motor works and how the human legs work but I'm pretty sure all I have to do is walk back and forth in a straight line to get the job done.

 

[john!]

but reading this thread would probably teach you things that it would take more time to learn by yourself through practice

 

[Hindawg]

Yea I agree with that, I started to generate a list of those things in my other post but I didn't bother, it was things like L-cancel, JC Grab, short hopping, and anything else that has specific button inputs that isn't already in the official melee guide.

 

[Little England]

Add that super theory brothers *****! Tink said your a solid teams player? Great more pratice for me!

I'll add it when school isn't ****** me. lol And Tink never commented on my teams play.

 

[Lit]

Damn school is rapping you huh, me to im about to go home this sunday son. Yes back to sunny California.

 

[Little England]

I'll post as I update this. I should update it more frequently. >_< Anyways...

*UPDATE*

A nice little tidbit I added in Section VIII.

"Mew2king visually breaks down concept of tech chasing in friendlies with Juggleguy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XEDGfLpvmY&feature=player_detailpage#t=129s "

 

[Binx]

Just read this, good **** man, prolly will read again later on this week. Prolly gonna try and steal some of that tech stuff for my Ice Climber MU guide too.

 

[Little England]

Thanks man. I'm glad it was of help to you. :D

I planned on updating this with the last section sometime ago. I just have get around to it heh.

 

[ORLY]

THIS THREAD STILL EXISTS?

wat

 

[Minimu5e]

Still waiting Kappa