Official 1.1.6 Patch Notes/Patch Discussion

[itsmeMOB]

Like what dumb stuff, though?

A character built around aerial combos losing her aerial combos sounds pretty significant, especially when nothing was added to compensate.

Witch Time is basically a free punish and the best counter in the game.

Hard to escape aerial combos that have a little error window or you WILL get caught in them.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Witch Time is basically a free punish and the best counter in the game.

Yeah, and you get like, one shot at it, per stock. MAYBE 2.

Whoever compared WT to wario's waft was spot-on.

 

[Charoite]

What worries me is that now people would look for the next character to nerf.

Hard to escape aerial combos that have a little error window or you WILL get caught in them.

That is no longer true if the datamine is correct

 

[VPTurnip]

You really think they would make a move completely useless? Thats not how it works.

Say that to her face, and her custom moves.



Prepatch Wii Fit Trainer's hitboxes also say hello.

I just want to see how the new Bayo plays.

 

[Someperson8760]

However, there is something I want to address



This right here, I agree with 100%. Yes, Bayonetta was a good character before this patch (assuming the whole thing isn't a big load of nonsense). Yes, playing a good character will generally net you better results than playing a low or mid tier character. That's just common sense.

I co-main Iggy and Bayonetta and my best friend mained Bayonetta (he's probably going to drop her after the patch because he's sick of how bad they hit her due to all the public outcry). I don't usually ditto, so most of our matches was my Iggy vs. his Bayonetta. I got beat pretty handily for a bit while I was learning the matchup, but once I got my footing in how to play against her, we started going 50/50 in wins like we usually do.

It's almost like learning the matchup is beneficial.

Just because Bayonetta has the chance to 0-death you, doesn't mean she's busted. She doesn't have the best neutral or the best frame data, and the combos were how she went about things. She was made to be a combo character. Yes, even now with all my Bayonetta experience, I still get 0-deathed by my friend. But guess what? I also SDI out of a lot of his combos and avoid a lot of setups like crazy as well. I don't get mad when I get 0-deathed. It's just a part of who she is (was) as a Smash character, and that's something I'm going to miss, because Bayonetta became my #1 favorite character to fight as well as being tied with Iggy for my favorite character to play as.

But the bottom line is, I'm getting tired of all this boasting and gloating from all the Bayonetta haters. Stop with the "LOL NOW YOU'RE EXPOSED" "ADAPT LIKE WE HAD TO" (that one usually makes me laugh because as Ghidorah said, most smashers didn't adapt to Bayonetta, they just flooded the internet with hate for her and calls for nerfs) and things like that; it's such a childish thing to do now that a good character was hit so hard with nerfs.

Not really, you're acting like we weren't trying tho.

However, there is something I want to address



This right here, I agree with 100%. Yes, Bayonetta was a good character before this patch (assuming the whole thing isn't a big load of nonsense). Yes, playing a good character will generally net you better results than playing a low or mid tier character. That's just common sense.

I co-main Iggy and Bayonetta and my best friend mained Bayonetta (he's probably going to drop her after the patch because he's sick of how bad they hit her due to all the public outcry). I don't usually ditto, so most of our matches was my Iggy vs. his Bayonetta. I got beat pretty handily for a bit while I was learning the matchup, but once I got my footing in how to play against her, we started going 50/50 in wins like we usually do.

It's almost like learning the matchup is beneficial.

Just because Bayonetta has the chance to 0-death you, doesn't mean she's busted. She doesn't have the best neutral or the best frame data, and the combos were how she went about things. She was made to be a combo character. Yes, even now with all my Bayonetta experience, I still get 0-deathed by my friend. But guess what? I also SDI out of a lot of his combos and avoid a lot of setups like crazy as well. I don't get mad when I get 0-deathed. It's just a part of who she is (was) as a Smash character, and that's something I'm going to miss, because Bayonetta became my #1 favorite character to fight as well as being tied with Iggy for my favorite character to play as.

But the bottom line is, I'm getting tired of all this boasting and gloating from all the Bayonetta haters. Stop with the "LOL NOW YOU'RE EXPOSED" "ADAPT LIKE WE HAD TO" (that one usually makes me laugh because as Ghidorah said, most smashers didn't adapt to Bayonetta, they just flooded the internet with hate for her and calls for nerfs) and things like that; it's such a childish thing to do now that a good character was hit so hard with nerfs.

Thing is, Bayonetta is just like every other top tier we were gonna be forced to adapt like we did with the others people complained about. We may have been whining but we were still trying to beat her and she was in the lab day 1. It was the same exact thing with Zero Suit and Sheik. You can whine that they "ruined a character" all you want. The patch hasn't even came out yet. Bayonetta crushes enemies under the heel with combos. This is the Bayonetta games all over again. Like the instant she even comes into the Smash universe she's ****ing the meta game. I mean she's in the game as a gift and she's breaking the game the instant she makes it in by a miracle. But that is kinda funny. All the nerfs haven't really had a bad track record. Just wait until the patch comes out.

 

[blackghost]

*facepalm*
I apologize, I didn't mean to shock anyone. But I did see someone's compiled Japan results somewhere on the Bayonetta discussion forums which indicate that she has won a large amount of tournaments in that region since her release, and I have watched many Finals matches from VGBootcamp, MVG, Tourney Locator, Geeky Goon Squad and Unrivaled Tournaments in which Bayonetta has dominated. .

don't fall into the trap of just watching locals. watch regionals and nationals more to really determin where a meta is headed. bayo wasn't placing in bigger tourneys prepatch. she was having a hard time agianst elite players of high tiers and very strong zoners mostly mid tier and lower characters.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

Someperson8760 Obviously not everyone was refusing to learn the matchup, but that was the case for most people that were going crazy for Bayo nerfs/bans.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

People were so pissed at her to a point where they were mass disliking every videos where she won, I highly doubt any of us dying over these nerfs are gonna mass dislike videos where she loses.
A very high percent of people constantly spew out false information about her and even made fun of players who play her, and they still are.
We will adapt, but I doubt we can go far with what she become.

 

[ARISTOS]

A good rule of thumb with almost all DLC fighting game characters, don't fully invest all your time into them since they will change in an updated game. Option for bayo players now would be to adapt or switch, sucks but thats usually how fighting games go.

Should be repeated but for everyone playing a top tier.

You invest your time into the character with the knowledge that at any point during the meta, the character may have several tools taken away and you will have to adapt or switch. Such is the nature of balance patches.

It just so happened the sword fell on Bayonetta

 

[DJblackviolence]

Yeah, and you get like, one shot at it, per stock. MAYBE 2.

Whoever compared WT to wario's waft was spot-on.

I don't get the comparison. Wario typically gets one full charged waft per game.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Hard to escape aerial combos that have a little error window or you WILL get caught in them.

False. This will be gone after the nerf.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't get the comparison. Wario typically gets one full charged waft per game.

It's a very powerful trump card, so much that just having it exerts pressure. But when you use it it's gone, and for Bayonetta and her mostly poor start-up not having the move charged means there's not much keeping the opponent from going ham.

 

[gamecubeguy214]

Was it made impossible now to do her infamous zero to death combos?

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Was it made impossible now to do her infamous zero to death combos?

It was made impossible to do even her normal combos now.

 

[Mario766]

Patch is up.

 

[Greda]

It was made impossible to do even her normal combos now.

With that being said, I'm not even sure if the balancing team knows what's they want anymore.

Initially, they tried to make a character that was more combo oriented. They succeeded, but oversights led to zero to deaths and other scary combinations that were too overwhelming for certain characters to handle.

Now that they realized they messed up, they're backtracking so much they reached the core of her character, and demolished it.

These indecisive actions are part of what is concerning me. It looks like they made a character with a broken design, and that could mean that it either works or not.

Personally, after this patch hits, I'm going to lay the game to rest. I'm sure at this point many people are replying saying, "Just adapt!!", but, frankly, I'm tired. Do you know how it feels like to lab a character for three months to have all that effort tossed out the window? I have a life outside of Smash, I simply cannot work towards figuring her out again to have that potentially tossed as well, too. You could say I should have seen the patch coming, but a nerf of this velocity? ....No

I'm sure many Bayonetta mains will try to figure out her new style, and I say godspeed to you. I'm glad more people will be able to play against her and have more fun with the game, and I'm glad other characters will have a better time playing against her. However, after this patch, she's not going to have much potential to go off on anymore. And I don't believe new potential can be created for her after a pure nerf. And frankly, I'm worried for her future.

If in the release, Bayonetta is truly the only character changed, we can reasonably say this might be the last patch. After all, they don't think any other character needs fixing, so nothing is going to happen unless something big comes up.

I'll leave the rest to the pros. Good luck.

 

[OFY]

Patch is up.

Spoiler: it's showtime!

 

[Ghidorah14]

Downloading now.

Moment of truth, boys. Cross your fingers for other characters getting changes. It'd be pretty boring if only bayo was changed.

 

[itsmeMOB]

Yeah, and you get like, one shot at it, per stock. MAYBE 2.

Whoever compared WT to wario's waft was spot-on.

One good read is all it takes at a high level of play. That being said, it's still ridiculous and one of the more broken things about her now that she got severely nerfed.

What worries me is that now people would look for the next character to nerf.

That is no longer true if the datamine is correct

False. This will be gone after the nerf.

I was talking pre-1.1.6 Bayonetta.

 

[Mario766]

I can already pretty much confirm that Ike has 0 changes.

Unless it's something hidden under the scenes.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

One good read is all it takes at a high level of play. That being said, it's still ridiculous and one of the more broken things about her now that she got severely nerfed.

It is easier said than done, not to mention it loses a lot of potential with one bad read.

 

[Buddhahobo]

One good read is all it takes at a high level of play. That being said, it's still ridiculous and one of the more broken things about her now that she got severely nerfed.

It's a worse waft.

I can already pretty much confirm that Ike has 0 changes.

Unless it's something hidden under the scenes.

Can you check Pokemon Stadium 2 for me?

Apparently the textures were changed, check to see if Sakurai hid any more pictures of his cat or something again.

 

[Rucent]

I just stumbled upon this on Twitter.

For those of you who also main G&W, check if this is actually a change.

 

[Metal Fish]

Bayo needed this, now people that actually want to play bayo won't be harassed so hard.

 

[Game7a1]

I just stumbled upon this on Twitter.
View attachment 107408

For those of you who also main G&W, check if this is actually a change.

Just checked. Nope. Same damage as before.

 

[DillButt64]

i just tested G&W Ftilt and its the same 10% on 1.1.5 3DS and 10% on Wii U 1.1.6

 

[Yonder]

I just stumbled upon this on Twitter.
View attachment 107408

For those of you who also main G&W, check if this is actually a change.

I thought the general rule was to preceived all 1% buffs or nerfs in damage as placebo with a patch? I'm going to go with placebo unless the number is significant. Especially when it wasn't found prior.

 

[Mario766]

I thought the general rule was to preceived all 1% buffs or nerfs in damage as placebo with a patch? I'm going to go with placebo unless the number is significant. Especially when it wasn't found prior.

or as false info.

Because all the numbers are 100 percent the same.

 

[Strong-Arm]

It looks to me like no one other than Bayonetta was touched

 

[SoccerStar9001]

At high %, Dive DOESN'T combo into ABK.

 

[LancerStaff]

Guys, I'm pretty sure it was a joke...

 

[VPTurnip]

That being said, it's still ridiculous and one of the more broken things about her now that she got severely nerfed.

Wait, stop right there. Just stop. Did you actually just say she's still partially broken after the patch?

The irrational Bayo hate never ends, folks! My goodness..

Downloading now.

Moment of truth, boys. Cross your fingers for other characters getting changes. It'd be pretty boring if only bayo was changed.

I doubt anyone else has any changes, but I'll check my characters out.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I can already pretty much confirm that Ike has 0 changes.

Unless it's something hidden under the scenes.

Did you check for Aether grabbing the edge backwards? It's like my one hope for Ike buffwise.

And if someone can, check if Zelda still goes helpless after Aerial Din's Fire. These are most likely unchanged, but a guy can hope.

 

[Chalice]

Cloud doesn't appear to have been changed

 

[Mario766]

Did you check for Aether grabbing the edge backwards? It's like my one hope for Ike buffwise.

And if someone can, check if Zelda still goes helpless after Aerial Din's Fire. These are most likely unchanged, but a guy can hope.

He can't.

Like always.

 

[Greda]

Just did a Down smash and it didn't spike

edit: for bayo

 

[NintendoKnight]

He can't.

Like always.

Shame. Dang shame.

 

[Rojo Espada]

Just did a Down smash and it didn't spike

edit: for bayo

I just tried that now and it stills works.

Also, Link feels pretty unchanged to me but up air feels weaker to me. Idk that's probably placebo. Horrible horrible placebo

 

[Kofu]

i just tested G&W Ftilt and its the same 10% on 1.1.5 3DS and 10% on Wii U 1.1.6

The move technically has a sweet spot, with the legs of the chair doing 10% and the back (AKA the part closest to Game & Watch) doing 9%.

My guess is Regi didn't know this and happened to hit with the sourspot during testing.

 

[VPTurnip]

And if someone can, check if Zelda still goes helpless after Aerial Din's Fire. These are most likely unchanged, but a guy can hope.

She's still helpless. That would be a great buff (or rather, fix), though.