stingers

Ok then, if you take the hit to the shield, you'll get pressured harder due to shield stun/slipperiness of M2. It makes more sense to me (vs Ganon's Fair/Dair) to roll away/behind him.

I think you have time to roll behind Ganon in that case. If not, you can still WD OOS, which provides plenty of options.

The way I view projectiles is that they are methods of positioning your opponent in an odd place so you can approach easier. In M2's case, I see a shielded SB as a reason to go in because you know the person can jump/aerial OOS, spotdodge, roll, or WD. 4 of those 5 options are defensive ones so you don't really have to worry about them in terms of being punished for this. What you would have to worry about(this is assumed to be spaced so no grab btw, you could space it to look like you're about to be grabbed though but that's a different story) is the aerial OOS.

Now then, since it's Ganon, you can expect a retreating Fair most of the time, or maybe a Dair if you're on top of him. Either way, you have time to WD up, tilt(at least Dtilt but maybe Ftilt/Utilt too I dunno) then WD back before he can attack, then WD back in to punish him(spacing out his safety jab probably).

Seems safe enough, as it's pretty much what any character with a tool like that would use on Ganon.

Now then, he'll catch on and start attacking before you get there. You can now start WD'ing early instead of SB'ing and attack (probably with Utilt since he'll Fair).

Now he's afraid to attack so he shields. Do a little WD/DD tricks mixed with SB to control(but only 1 imo) and work in your grabs, as anyone who plays M2 frequently will realize that his WD is incredibly fast when combined with his tilts, but he can be rather easy to punish OOS if he becomes predictable.

Of course, you also have WD jabs. These can force a shield grab when spaced close to your opponent and their quick cool down time can lead into Nair or Fair or a grab or whatever if you get a good reaction. If they continue to hodl their shield, try for the grab. If you get Daired out of the grab attempt then work on movement after the jab or getting a tilt in or even doing a quick DD to make sure your opponent won't move.


SBs can also keep shielded opponents from jumping as you approach. While not necessarily amazing sounding in theory, the ability to not jump OOS does worry some people, but realistically it cuts off a very good escape option, leaving you with a stronger mental hand in the situation.



Does that help?

Alright then, if you think SBs are the best route to take, then who am I to tell you otherwise?

M2 has range on his Ftilt and Dtilt and some on Utilt as well.

I don't play the dang character but it still seems weird to shoot those when you should be throwing one or two out and then coming in with a WD tilt or grab or something.

I'm not saying don't throw them, but I am saying ease off on them.

Lol Karn.

After watching the second match, I can say that you gave up control of the center of the stage to spam Shadow Ball, which is NOT a spammable move. Obviously, you didn't ridiculously spam it, but it was enough to force you into positions to get ***** over and over because you were always above Ganon or boxed into a corner. When you get into the center of the stage, charged SB or not, stay there and push Ganon. When you do, you can break into his defenses better and get those crucial combos.

Also, you might wanna hold a charged SB longer. It forces your opponent to worry more about it. Don't wait too long that you miss opportunities or your opponent feels safe with you having it charged, but don't go firing it off every small chance you get.

I can do a little more later, but that was the biggest thing I saw that match. Karn can probably do more anyway.

Lator
asdf

My bad dude, I've been busy looking through the backroom and trying to catch up with stuff.

I was talking with Yeroc and he said we can only let in like 5 people per month, and we've already hit that limit for this month, and there are quite a few who are guaranteed a spot in the next round, so it could take a while It's also not up to me who gets in (since I'm a fairly new member myself), so all I can say is make sure you have a good application and I'll make sure you don't get ignored.

He did, he just overreacts.

Yeah.

I understand I just meant about my post that people actually took seriously lol

I'm laughing so hard right now hahah :>

"I mean there is nothing to trust you on. You told me we were teaming and then backed out and so now I will likely lose money. I doubt I will ever team with you again because who knows you might leave me in a similar position with no teammate."

perfect.....

make me :D

I meant he wouldn't be staying with you....LOL. That's it.

"He wouldn't stay with you lol."

Lol wait what? He doesn't have anything against you.

He wouldn't stay with you lol. He won't even stay the night. His mom will come get him.

Since Jim isn't going to Bills, can I pick up Mask on the way since there will be an open seat?

Perhaps I will.

I mean, most characters just can't do anything to him if he's spamming bairs on the stage.

I'd say nerf his fsmash a little bit and either increase the lag of his bair or decrease the hitbox/priority.

Kirby is the only one that seems broken to me, though.

Kirby, squirtle, marth, MK, snake all seem really good

I messed around with Falco a little bit at Omni's. He seems really good. Other than that I've only played them when I get them on random.

Honestly, Pika seems to be the most technical character in B+ to me. Quick attack cancelling is so good, and setups with jolts to qac to upair combos and thunder are so beautiful. Not to mention the falcon texture.

I'll show you how I do sometime.

But honestly I do see your profile when I do it.

I've decided on learning flashy characters in B+. Yoshi, Falcon, Lucas, Pika

Well you're obviously doing it wrong then. XD

Just don't press buttons randomly and it's fine. I'll probably settle at 150-200.

I do that you doofus. I just scroll down so I can have view conversation at the top before I click since I do everything quickly. I click the top one over the chat box too, but I can't help it lol.

Haha, I play with ridiculously high handicap. I played with 300 for half of Omni's. 150 for the other half, can't decide what to settle on. I love buffering.

Bair is good for spacing. Fair and PK Thunder/Fire are good for edgeguarding. Nair links into itself, but it doesn't seem to link into anything more to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

What? I don't even know where that option is.

I go new messages to your profile to view conversation.

I'm glad you didn't do that to us. We'd never get west NC going again....

I have to click on it to respond to you lol.

Well, I definitely approve. Certainly one of your better ideas.

Ohhhh, you guys and your Brawl+. =p

Good thread bro. Very creative title. XD

Yeah, nair is good, but it doesn't seem to go into combos nearly as well as his other aerials.

Lucas was buffed tremendously. He's actually good now. They increased hi fall speed, his momentum, and decreased the landing lag on his moves. They also sped up his PK fire.

Yeah, three games is quite a lot. Marth doesn't really seem that bad with the nerfs in the most recent patch. Kirby is still broken, though.