Meta Zero's Advice: General Matchup Q&A

[CopShowGuy]

You're organizing this all much better than I could. I'll just go along for the ride.

 

[Eren Swaeger]

With megaman, I've found that rosalina has the favor in the mu. I've decided that pit shall be my second main. Do you think pit has the better mu against rosalina and luma? I'm new to the competitive smash 4 scene (but I have an awesome megaman, if I do say so myself).

 

[xIvan321]

I don't think she's got the edge over Mega Man, but I think if you really want an edge over Rosalina, I'd choose MetaKnight. His side B murders Luma viciously whether Rosalina shields or not.

 

[p1ay6ack]

is there some way op can update the 1st page? when i click on shiek, alot of cpu code shows up x_x

 

[Locke 06]

is there some way op can update the 1st page? when i click on shiek, alot of cpu code shows up x_x

That's not CPU code. That's my template. If you want to see "CPU code," keep scrolling down past Rosalina. Each character has their first & last posts linked, which should be helpful enough. Obviously I haven't written summaries or gone through quotes, so the first & last post links should be helpful enough to get you to the discussion and you can sort through things there.

I've been busy with playing/life to make another thread the past month. I think I might get to it this Sunday, but no guarantees.

Edit: Like I said, you guys can continue discussing whatever you want until I setup a new thread. I just am going to be busy.

 

[Drarky]

So... Luigi. For some reason I can't deal with him. It's extremely annoying to deal with his overall shield and grab game, it really bugs me </3

(This is on a Non-custom enviroment, Shadow Blade is enough on customs for me oddly enough)

 

[CopShowGuy]

The simple advice is to not let him grab you. Everyone in my group complains that Mega Man is a pain to try and grab due to his keep-away game. You'll just have to stay away from some of Mega Man's laggier attacks to avoid grabs.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

Did you guys talk about ROB? He has been giving me hell lately.....

 

[ProtomanVX]

Since the discussion is on DK, figured I'd share this. Good set I played with a DK in an online tourney. I played like bad, but this is what can happen if you don't use lemons enough.

To add to this, we NEVER want to be above DK. That's just a bad position all around. Spacing is really important here too. Avoid stages with low-lying platforms if possible.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Luigi should rarely beat mega man. He is just too slow of airspeed to get in. when he approaches on the ground you can just spam pellets. The only way he really can get in is with side B and the spin tornado thing which both can be shielded and punished.

He can also try to dash attack or roll which both are predictable. If he goes airborn just run away because he is so slow in the air. Just don't ever let him grab you.

 

[p1ay6ack]

so you're saying we should camp luigi with lemons?

 

[ProtomanVX]

I think we should. Lemons and well spaced bairs help that matchup lots .

 

[Greward]

Yep, camp luigi with lemons and situationally metal blade. Try to reset space with grabbing him instead of jumping over since he covers that hard. If you get grabbed get ready for a lot of damage / death.
He will try to approach with roll mostly when we're locked into pellets. Run away as soon as he closes in since his boxing is insanely good.
If he spams fireballs just spam pellets, he can't do that in this matchup.
Play it as campy as you can. Luigi has troubles getting in, but when he does he's gonna make sure it hurts.

 

[Funkermonster]

Has anyone tried Ice Slasher against Luigi? I got beaten pretty bad by my state's best Luigi in a crew battle using 1323 (my usual, go-to set) despite having a 1-stock lead. I was able to wall out for awhile, but I found myself cornered when he got in and lost stage control and I was unable to find effective ways to kill him. I played pretty poorly i must admit, but I felt that if I had Ice Slasher instead of Danger Wrap it would've been at least a bit less of an issue with being cornered and all. Personally, the more I play with the other 2 sidebs, the less I begin to love Danger wrap: for crash bomber's mindgames and shield-drilling ( been breaking quite a few shields and landing more Fsmashes with it lately) and ice slasher's stage control and landing trao & Uair juggle setups.. Its probably just me making poor use of it though.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Danger wrap is good in most circumstances. I find crash bomb better against campy villagers and little Mac.

I could see ice slasher being useful

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't recall having many problems with Donkey Kong, of the few I came across, I could deal with rather well.

I have been having issues with Ness recently. Racking up damage isn't really an issue, but getting any good kill moves on him is. Can't rely too much on the Charge Shot, because he can heal off of it, so only very quick hits with it will do any good. And I have a bit of an issue getting Up-Smashes/Mega Uppers on him.

 

[Tornado_Man]

I don't recall having many problems with Donkey Kong, of the few I came across, I could deal with rather well.

I have been having issues with Ness recently. Racking up damage isn't really an issue, but getting any good kill moves on him is. Can't rely too much on the Charge Shot, because he can heal off of it, so only very quick hits with it will do any good. And I have a bit of an issue getting Up-Smashes/Mega Uppers on him.

Most of your kills vs Ness should come from offstage. His recovery is SOOO easy to gimp. Onstage, your best bet imo is a bthrow or utilt if you can actually get the Metal Blade to connect. Ness is annoying though, since you have to watch out for his killer bthrow and ability to easily combo Mega Man.

 

[Knight Dude]

Most of your kills vs Ness should come from offstage. His recovery is SOOO easy to gimp. Onstage, your best bet imo is a bthrow or utilt if you can actually get the Metal Blade to connect. Ness is annoying though, since you have to watch out for his killer bthrow and ability to easily combo Mega Man.

I'll try to keep that in mind. But I'll need more practice with off stage attacks for sure.

I've gotten slightly better at timing the Charge Shot on Ness. Hitting right before he lands or during a laggy move.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Charge Shots at pellet range or closer work best. Anything farther out and he has too much time to react.

 

[D0U8leB]

MM lemon game is crucial to shut him down. Yes he can absorb them, but whenever he wants to come in just nair him and barrage him with lemons. Besides, our Bair has quite the range and because he is floaty, uair works perfectly. And offstage Ness is just waiting to get gimped Definitely 60-40 for Us.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello Blue Bombers, we started preliminary discussion over at the Fox boards to discuss the MU:
vs

Please join in the Fox board by clicking here to discuss the Mega Man vs Fox MU with us!

 

[ScAtt77]

So as of late, I feel as if my lack of match-up knowledge is starting to bite me. In light of that, I'd like to get a little more active on here and post about the few match-ups that I do know reasonably well. As soon as we start picking back up on discussion, I'll definitely try to be more active here. I'd be particularly interested in discussing ,,,, , and since i'm either extremely unfamiliar with those match-ups and/or I believe they have the potential to give MM a run for his money.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Olimar has to be fought differently than most of the other characters. If you can use customs go skull barrier because it really messes up his game and makes it a very tough matchup for him.

Without customs you have to be extremely patient and shield/dodge all of his Pikmin that he throws at you. If you don't try to dodge them you will be dead very quickly.

Try and not be far away from him. Most matchups aren't bad when you are far away but I feel olimar has the advantage the further away you are you want to stay in pellet range most of the time.

Watch out for his Dsmash and Fsmash. His recovery is super slow and the best way to finish him is by running off the stage and hitting him with Bair into the stage.

This is a tough matchup but the more you play it the better you will get

 

[Sorichuudo]

Olimar has to be fought differently than most of the other characters. If you can use customs go skull barrier because it really messes up his game and makes it a very tough matchup for him.

Without customs you have to be extremely patient and shield/dodge all of his Pikmin that he throws at you. If you don't try to dodge them you will be dead very quickly.

Try and not be far away from him. Most matchups aren't bad when you are far away but I feel olimar has the advantage the further away you are you want to stay in pellet range most of the time.

Watch out for his Dsmash and Fsmash. His recovery is super slow and the best way to finish him is by running off the stage and hitting him with Bair into the stage.

This is a tough matchup but the more you play it the better you will get

On the matter of customs, Crash Bomber or Danger Wrap? Does CB explodes on contact with Pikmin?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I don't know about crash bomber I go danger wrap because it helps to block pikmin that are thrown at us when we are off stage and can hit him if he is on the ledge waiting to edgeguard us.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Wario you need to use lots of plant barrier and danger wrap. If you get a chance watch Kronos' match against wario it is a really good watch for the matchup.

It is quite a bit tougher without customs. You have to be good with metal blade and not letting him hit you on the endlag.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Guys, it looks like the Fox boards think destroys (totally not overdoing it). Guys, let's show them how wrong they are !

 

[glenn]

And offstage Ness is just waiting to get gimped Definitely 60-40 for Us.

I keep hearing this from people but find it very difficult to gimp Ness. All the players I engage are smart enough to go low at an angle that I can't punish. Dropped/thrown metal blades don't hit before his recovery, or just pop him up and he just tries again. Not to mention, if you don't respect PK Thunder when Ness recovers you can die at very early %.

What is it that's effective when Ness is off stage and recovering low? I just can't figure this out.

 

[ScAtt77]

I keep hearing this from people but find it very difficult to gimp Ness. All the players I engage are smart enough to go low at an angle that I can't punish. Dropped/thrown metal blades don't hit before his recovery, or just pop him up and he just tries again. Not to mention, if you don't respect PK Thunder when Ness recovers you can die at very early %.

What is it that's effective when Ness is off stage and recovering low? I just can't figure this out.

Usually you can just keep it simple; immediately falling off and f-airing is not bad, but you could just grab the ledge and b-air when he gets close. If you're feeling brave, try putting on leaf shield and leafstool him. If you don't manage to do it, you may take a hit, but don't worry; the leaves or Mega Man's body usually are more than enough to shorten the distance that Ness travels with PKT2. Just be prepared to tech.

 

[glenn]

If you're feeling brave, try putting on leaf shield and leafstool him. If you don't manage to do it, you may take a hit, but don't worry; the leaves or Mega Man's body usually are more than enough to shorten the distance that Ness travels with PKT2. Just be prepared to tech.

Are you saying that if PK Thunder hits MegaMan or LeafShield, it will shorten his recovery distance? I've never noticed this.

I guess I need to be in a position to drop zone punish Ness in those cases. I've been opting to throw projectiles down there, but haven't been brave enough to play that deep on Ness.

 

[ScAtt77]

Are you saying that if PK Thunder hits MegaMan or LeafShield, it will shorten his recovery distance? I've never noticed this.

I guess I need to be in a position to drop zone punish Ness in those cases. I've been opting to throw projectiles down there, but haven't been brave enough to play that deep on Ness.

That is exactly what will happen; You'll eat 25% if you mess up, but ness should end up losing his stock anyway.

 

[Drarky]

Guys, it looks like the Fox boards think destroys (totally not overdoing it). Guys, let's show them how wrong they are !

Well, they are pretty wrong if you ask me.

First of all, the jab lock can blocked by shield because of the heavyness of MM, so his only option is going for grab, which while still useful, is nowhere near the power it has agaisn't some other characters.
Second, just because Fox has a reflector it barely even matter to MM. Lemons block themselves and even if they don't they do what? 3%? And Z-Drop MB it's a projectile they don't want to stay reflecting or else they'll get punished.
MM is kinda hard to kill, and his weight helps him a lot agaisnt Fox because of how straight-forward and rather obvious his kill options are, and while we also have problems on the kill side, one Mega Upper punish can do to him what 2 USmashes of him can do to us.
But by far one of the biggest advantages MM has in this MU it's the fact that he has one of the most "HEY LOOK I'M RECOVERING" options in the game that we can easily capitalize with any aerial (Slash Claw/Hard Knuckle for the kill) while we have some good variety of options (Insta RC and then save DJ, RC to the ledge, stuff like that).

Overall, I feel the Blue Bomber gets some limitations in this MU, but his strenghts overweights Fox's advantages on the long run. Not by a much mind you, but still enough to call it an "slightly advantageous" MU for us.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Just go and read their posts, you are a bit late on that
Plus, I am (or was) the only Mega Main there, but @ DavemanCozy seemed to have the MU right.

 

[Drarky]

Didn't have pc until today, I am sad now

 

[SSGuy]

Guys, it looks like the Fox boards think destroys (totally not overdoing it). Guys, let's show them how wrong they are !

I wouldn't say Fox destroys Mega Man. That is a bit of an overstatement. Perfect shielding any of Fox's kill options guarantee's Mega Man gets an Up-Tilt/Up-Smash or any punish. The other thing going for Mega Man is that Fox is extremely light and when Fox is not efficiently kiting us, the match up is fairly even. For the most part, I give the nod to Fox and says 55:45 in his favor.

His speed and options with his kit can be overwhelming but not as overwhelming as an aggressive Captain Falcon or Zero Suit Samus.

 

[StriderAaron360]

What do you Megamains think about the Sheik matchup? Good? Bad? Even?

 

[Drarky]

What do you Megamains think about the Sheik matchup? Good? Bad? Even?

In customless enviroment, it's definitely a difficult MU because Sheik has so many setups that we don't, and she has a better time racking up some damage overall, but she CANNOT stop respecting the Mega Upper after kill %, specially when you add rage to the mix. I'll call it an overall "decent" MU, 6-4 maybe?

Now with customs on, things change quite drastically because of one (For some people, two) : Danger Wrap just screws around Sheik's overall gameplan a lot, because she can easily die early if not careful enough, and in a campy game Lemons>All.
Then there is Beat, which lead to her shenanigans of leaving you off-stage without any resource for coming back almost impossible (See: Beat's Momentum Glitch) so that helps too (Tho it can leave you wide open, so you'll probably have to recovery from far away high). I feel like it still might be a 6-4 but it could even become a 5-5 because of the risk of a random Wrap just screwing her up.

 

[Nu~]

In customless enviroment, it's definitely a difficult MU because Sheik has so many setups that we don't, and she has a better time racking up some damage overall, but she CANNOT stop respecting the Mega Upper after kill %, specially when you add rage to the mix. I'll call it an overall "decent" MU, 6-4 maybe?

Now with customs on, things change quite drastically because of one (For some people, two) : Danger Wrap just screws around Sheik's overall gameplan a lot, because she can easily die early if not careful enough, and in a campy game Lemons>All.
Then there is Beat, which lead to her shenanigans of leaving you off-stage without any resource for coming back almost impossible (See: Beat's Momentum Glitch) so that helps too (Tho it can leave you wide open, so you'll probably have to recovery from far away high). I feel like it still might be a 6-4 but it could even become a 5-5 because of the risk of a random Wrap just screwing her up.

Don't forget that Shiek's fair beats danger wrap. Danger wrap is good for air control, but it is easily beaten out by even weak attacks due to bad priority.

 

[Drarky]

Don't forget that Shiek's fair beats danger wrap. Danger wrap is good for air control, but it is easily beaten out by even weak attacks due to bad priority.

But speaking on kill % Sheik's best kill options are Boucing Fish (Which funnily enough if it hits you, it puts her in the way of the Wrap) and faint Vanish (Smashes are rather unrealiable except USmash on platforms) so she's very wide opened to them in that situation.

 

[Funkermonster]

Your thoughts on the matchup?