Zero Suit Video Thread and Analysis

[Tobi_Whatever]

Yeah I don't know what happened he beat him in winner finals then lost four times in a row in grand finals.

He seemed to be unfocused. I wasn't watching the whole time but I saw him missing some easy kills and wondered what the hell he was doing.

 

[David Viran]

He seemed to be unfocused. I wasn't watching the whole time but I saw him missing some easy kills and wondered what the hell he was doing.

He jumped straight into the monkey flip alot to. Also he would sheild the banana then jump to get up aired by diddy because he did it everytime and it happened like 5 different times and I think he died a couple times to it. But he's still my main man.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

He jumped straight into the monkey flip alot to. Also he would sheild the banana then jump to get up aired by diddy because he did it everytime and it happened like 5 different times and I think he died a couple times to it. But he's still my main man.

Same here. I just want to see less Diddy winning. Diddy is depressing me. If a ZSS wins instead all the better.

 

[David Viran]

Same here. I just want to see less Diddy winning. Diddy is depressing me. If a ZSS wins instead all the better.

Choco is one of the only zero suits winning tournaments right now and he came so close this time.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Choco is one of the only zero suits winning tournaments right now and he came so close this time.

Dakpo is going strong though.
Would love to see him more often.

 

[David Viran]

Dakpo is going strong though.
Would love to see him more often.

Yeah I said one of and I second that.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Just found this one here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEpnexyFmX8
False uses ZSS for 3 rounds
It's a perfect example of what happens when someone with great fundamentals but no deeper character specific knowledge picks her up.
He makes a bunch of mistakes and the falcon spike could have been avoided with a simple dSpecial but his whole offense is exciting to watch.

 

[DeLux]

Still looking for someone to take over this thread to share updating responsibilities :D

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Still looking for someone to take over this thread to share updating responsibilities :D

If it's just editing the original post with every video ITT I can do it.

 

[DeLux]

If it's just editing the original post with every video ITT I can do it.

Sold to highest bidder! I'll also help update via mod editing as well, just been super busy lately and we have a pretty active community so me not updating constantly hurts things.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Sold to highest bidder! I'll also help update via mod editing as well, just been super busy lately and we have a pretty active community so me not updating constantly hurts things.

Will do, I'll start tomorrow morning. It's like 1am here in Germany

 

[Daisy101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOC379KAU-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HpFYIwr5UM

some of my weekly scene. semi and finals, i did just overall lost 1 gameset but suprising not againt any of them.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So @ DeLux said in the OP that he wants a time limit for the videos to be recent enough to be relevant to the current meta.
In addition to that and for the same reason, I'd like to know if it's okay for everyone to only include recent tournament videos and not friendlies and the likes in the OP.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Sounds okay to me.

 

[extremechiton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOC379KAU-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HpFYIwr5UM

some of my weekly scene. semi and finals, i did just overall lost 1 gameset but suprising not againt any of them.

Nice comebacks.

 

[Dakpo]

Here ya go- me winning salty run back tournament with Zss
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaZhs7JqS4yNSm0OJq5ZjZnmFECqroHVM
Special treat for anyone watching at 17:12 during grand finals

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Here ya go- me winning salty run back tournament with Zss
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaZhs7JqS4yNSm0OJq5ZjZnmFECqroHVM
Special treat for anyone watching at 17:12 during grand finals

You're my hero

 

[Daisy101]

Here ya go- me winning salty run back tournament with Zss
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaZhs7JqS4yNSm0OJq5ZjZnmFECqroHVM
Special treat for anyone watching at 17:12 during grand finals

Thanks to share, Gj on these wins! a lot of diddys x )

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Goddamnit @ Dakpo you make Nairos match with ZSS against Nakat look like basics.
I just rewatched your Salty Runback games and you even make the neutral game against Diddy look like a cakewalk.
This is how it's supposed to be. Poke and space everything that moves to death.
But what makes ZSSamus really stand out are those early kills, and this is also the reason why I personally still think she is underrated.

 

[Dakpo]

Thanks guys! Nick and lux should have more content coming as well

 

[NickRiddle]

Thanks guys! Nick and lux should have more content coming as well

NEVER 1

 

[DeLux]

TIL Dakpo isn't a basic *****

 

[extremechiton]

I have a replay on my 3ds that i finaly got uploaded to youtube, now i dont have a capture card so i apologize for lack good phone quality,
So the first stock i sd and my opponent gives me a mercy stock, which im like.... whuu? Ok. But my most proud accomplishment is the final winning ko, or perhaps only ko. Lets tale looksie.
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=iGh_XoO6wzs

 

[Remzi]

Here are those Xanadu vids I promised. Both are against great players. Didn't play particularly well in either set, but have at em!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fdOvY_faPs vs Snow (Fox)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiXHM3NacHc vs False (Sheik)

Those are kinda bleh, I played really skittish for whatever reason, but I did pretty well in the tournament all things considered (9th of 128). I'll have some much better content to show after this weekend.

 

[David Viran]

There were some questionable Zairs in those videos. Also man that bouncing fish caught you off guard almost every time. If a sheik tries to bouncing fish you while you are still on the ground try to spot dodge it because it leaves her open for a punish. Good. Matches though.

 

[Aether9000]

Can I get some honest criticism on my ZSS? I feel like I'm not playing her properly.

 

[extremechiton]

Can I get some honest criticism on my ZSS? I feel like I'm not playing her properly.

You actually have a really good zss. Retreating side b is always good. That d smash to run forward, up b was cute. Its very similar to my play style.

As for your problems, there seems to be a lot of unnecessary double jumps on stage, you also activate the down the down b kick when you opponent isnt near you. That has lag at the end and is better to just land withou the kick.
It would be nice to see you zoning with zair as a mix up sometimes
Things like dtilt to zair combos.
You can hit with back air sometimes out of d throw as a mix up or even a kill option

 

[Aether9000]

You actually have a really good zss. Retreating side b is always good. That d smash to run forward, up b was cute. Its very similar to my play style.

As for your problems, there seems to be a lot of unnecessary double jumps on stage, you also activate the down the down b kick when you opponent isnt near you. That has lag at the end and is better to just land withou the kick.
It would be nice to see you zoning with zair as a mix up sometimes
Things like dtilt to zair combos.
You can hit with back air sometimes out of d throw as a mix up or even a kill option

Thank you very much!

 

[DeLux]

Here are those Xanadu vids I promised. Both are against great players. Didn't play particularly well in either set, but have at em!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiXHM3NacHc vs Snow (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fdOvY_faPs vs False (Sheik)

Those are kinda bleh, I played really skittish for whatever reason, but I did pretty well in the tournament all things considered (9th of 128). I'll have some much better content to show after this weekend.

Bengals, on your set vs. Sheik (you have the video links reversed btw) -
Be more careful in your wall situations, especially with Sheik. Since we lose the neutral game outright (because her range / frame data on grounded really shreds ours since grab is bad) it looks like you understand not be immediately next to her. Since bouncing fish, looks like you found out the hard way not to be too far either

But in situations where you were put into 50/50s like when you spaced a nair on shield so you were out of sheiks close and far options, False would wind up for a SH landing Fair (since it's fairly safe on shield vs. ZSS and the reward is to get into her strong zone against ZSS even if shielded). I think in order to win the MU, you gotta start punishing that situations by either stuffing it out right with preemptive usmash or dash attack or using movement to jank spacing for a pivot grab or something like that. Alternatively, you could just shield the fair and play a skewed rps in her favor, but it looks like you paid a lot of attention to the initial spacing of the wall option (when it's supposed to be a mindless selection thus being the wall) and didn't think too much or got REALLY out played in the secondary read section of the game.

 

[David Viran]

To add to that we can actually punish sheiks spaced fair if we PS but that's a read most of the time. That makes sheik have to watch out though when hitting us. Also we outrange her but her moves come out faster.

 

[Remzi]

Thanks both of you for the feedback. I'll switch those video labels, haha.

I was getting slammed by bouncing fish for the most part. Almost every time he would be catching me out of a jump or comboing into it from fthrow. I do like the idea of spot dodging it if I'm on the ground, and maybe punishing with turnaround dsmash.

Love what you said sheik getting in on me shield safely, Delux. I told False after our set that he was killing me with his mixups on shield hit, and it looks like you came to that same conclusion. Like you said, its RPS that is skewed in his favor at that point, so avoiding that situation outright is what I'm going to have to work on.

 

[David Viran]

I just looked through those videos again and noticed you were doing some good with those empty hops. Additionally, you were actually pretty close that second match against false. One up b with all that rage might have ruined his day.

 

[DeLux]

Yea, talking to Nick Riddle about it, he seems to favor burning boost kick OOS as a punish option to help skew the situations more in our favor. You should try it, but I've personally had mixed results doing it (not sure if I'm just the slowest reaction time or there's something about it I don't understand).

I've been in favor of playing midrange keep away and trying to hit her like a truck when we get the chance. However that is hard to do in some cases since sheik can just bouncing fish away to safety.

 

[Remzi]

Yea, talking to Nick Riddle about it, he seems to favor burning boost kick OOS as a punish option to help skew the situations more in our favor. You should try it, but I've personally had mixed results doing it (not sure if I'm just the slowest reaction time or there's something about it I don't understand).

I've been in favor of playing midrange keep away and trying to hit her like a truck when we get the chance. However that is hard to do in some cases since sheik can just bouncing fish away to safety.

I can see that being a good option in the scenario where I read their follow-up after fair/nair. If anything, it gives Sheik a reason to second guess the idea of pressuring your shield, which is extremely valuable. The only issue I have with it is that boost kick RCO is absolutely brutal. If the up B gets stuffed with a jab or trades with a nair, its really bad news.

 

[DeLux]

Well at least we're on the same page on why we don't like it

 

[NickRiddle]

Obviously going to make a video about Boost Kicking Sheik things.
Friday-Saturday!
It'll make up for the fact that the streamer for Saturday's tournament left early so I don't have any new videos.

 

[Remzi]

Playing Neo's Sheik right now, I've been able to punish fair/nair (both rising and falling) with boost kick OoS pretty reliably. There might be something to this mister riddle

 

[David Viran]

I just found out that if sheik stuffs your up b with a jab to give you that stupid RCO lag then you can actually SDI the jab up so if sheik only jabs once then you can jump out of it with out suffering from the RCO lag. This is super difficult to do though the timing is very strict.

Edit: watch out when jumping out of the jab because you still have the RCO lag when landing normally so try to auto cancel an aerial or go for the ledge.

 

[NickRiddle]

Playing Neo's Sheik right now, I've been able to punish fair/nair (both rising and falling) with boost kick OoS pretty reliably. There might be something to this mister riddle

Jab2 is easy as well.
You can also grab ftilt IIRC. Not sure if it's guaranteed if Sheik does f-tilt > jump, but I know it interrupts f-tiltX2

I just found out that if sheik stuffs your up b with a jab to give you that stupid RCO lag then you can actually SDI the jab up so if sheik only jabs once then you can jump out of it with out suffering from the RCO lag. This is super difficult to do though the timing is very strict.

Edit: watch out when jumping out of the jab because you still have the RCO lag when landing normally so try to auto cancel an aerial or go for the ledge.

If you land with an aerial you get normal aerial landing lag, it doesn't have to autocancel.
I usually just land with a paralyzer in that situation though.

 

[Duzzzyy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujdHbbKDfVs vs

Been practicing and tried to take in the advice that was given before, like not using fsmash blindly without no setup, and would like some more feedback on my general play and the mistakes I do, and how I can prevent them or what I can do instead.
If you're wondering about the paralyzers, I just suck at b-reversals right now.

Also anyone have any idea what might have happened on the two times my character just failed to grab the edge? It happens randomly for me and I just zoom past.