Zero Suit Samus's Moves Discussion "Currently on F-TILT"

[Phillyfanboy]

This thread is to spend time talking about each of ZSS moves indepth. As we build up some facts on each move I'll add them to this post. All thoughts and opinions are very much welcomed!
Anything that was on the thread "A small thanks to the ZSS boards" please put them here, for the sake of being easy to find.

We'll start with the highly discussed - F-TILT

F-Tilt:

Damage:Normal Side & Angled Up Side Tilt- 6%
Angled Down Side Tilt- 9%

Frame Data for F-Tilt: Start-up 6 frames, cooldown ?

Info on F-Tilt:

Please Discuss!

 

[Mazaloth]

What I like about this move is it has a deceptive range to how small her leg extends. It comes out fast as well.
Of course, we all know it trips which is another great property.

While using a Dtilt or a Utilt is prefered; Ftilt can be used as a 'out-of-my face' move.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ftilt.

Ftilt is a good ground move, imo. It's unshieldgrab-able (at least less so then dtilt) because of it's shieldpushback. It hit's fast, and can be pivoted without the 2frame lag that dtilt has. It has AMAZING range. It positions the opponent similarly to jab, but it's not PS-able.
Range: ****
Power: ***
Speed: ****
Lag: **** (black is half a star)
Best followups:
nB (grounded) ***** (works a lot)
usmash **** (gets airdodges, only flaw is that its easily di'd out of)
dsmash (airdodge predict) *** (if you hit it it's lethal)
uair *** (won't connect as often but still possible)
fair ** (I just dislike fair as follow up)


my input

 

[noradseven]

f-tilt speed 5 frames, longer recovery unsafe outside of close range on shield very unsafe on PS but hey what isn't, moderate pushback.
Overall its a p. good move however its use is almost completely invalidated by 2 other moves d-tilt/jab, its main purpose however, and anti air when jab would be beaten(very rare), just outside of d-tilt range.

The downwards version sheild pokes slightly better than d-tilt too, but the down version is near worthless so...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Thing about ftilt is that it's 100% safe on most characters. Try it on Luigi some time for extreme lulz.

Dtilt can't claim that. If you hit someone's shield with Dtilt they can punish it. Yes they can. Don't argue.

Ftilt knocks the opponent backward thus eliminating any OOS options and giving you space. It also has broken range and the down-angled one is a great edgeguard option at high percents (it kills).

 

[solecalibur]

How well of a move would it be OOS?
Also to my knowledge if your in range of MK's D smash and your playing the dancing game with sheild/spot dodge , I can assume its the best option?

 

[Phillyfanboy]

How well of a move would it be OOS?
Also to my knowledge if your in range of MK's D smash and your playing the dancing game with sheild/spot dodge , I can assume its the best option?

I don't think it a good OOS option. Spotdodge and shield would be the best get out and reset.

Is it really, 5 frames as a whole or is that the start-up?

 

[Mazaloth]

F-Tilt is 6 frames to come out.
I think the spotdodge and shielding is a bad thing to do. A lot of characters can reset there pressure on you. I for some reason like OOS Uair.

 

[Nefarious B]

ftilt is 6 frames. since you have to drop shield it's 13 to do it "OOS" so yeah not really an amazing option

 

[Phillyfanboy]

So what would be the cooldown be? How long is the hitbox active?

 

[CRASHiC]

Cooldown is the opposite of that actually. Cooldown is the time when the hitbox is no longer active, but the move continues. Its your vulnerable state.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Cooldown is the opposite of that actually. Cooldown is the time when the hitbox is no longer active, but the move continues. Its your vulnerable state.

Yea I know. I asked two questions, What is the cooldown and how long is the hitbox active?
We already know the startup= 6 frames, I'd like to know the total frames of the whole move from start to finish. Then add in how long the hitbox is active, in the total move.

 

[Nefarious B]

The ending lag feels pretty bad on ftilt, much worse than Falco's comparable ftilt. This is mostly the reason why I don't use the move.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

The ending does feel awful. Plus theres not alot of knockback.

 

[Charby]

I dont think that's a good moove unless you hit and trip you opponent ( yeah good luck )

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Got some good smash in today, I'm finding that the f-tilt uses are fairly limited. But it has some value in toe tipper pokes on some of the cast, and can cancel out some attacks ( what move can't). It also useful to buffer it out of a DA that you won't chain due high percents, tho I'm sure theres better options. Overall the move is as stated not very good so far.

I was also dissatisfied with my play with her tonight and found myself going back to old flames and sandbags.
I regret the matches I missed playing others instead of her. My pride gotthe best of me due to my inability to KO with her. Growing Pains. I need stay strong and keep with her.

 

[NickRiddle]

Got some good smash in today, I'm finding that the f-tilt uses are fairly limited. But it has some value in toe tipper pokes on some of the cast, and can cancel out some attacks ( what move can't). It also useful to buffer it out of a DA that you won't chain due high percents, tho I'm sure theres better options. Overall the move is as stated not very good so far.

I was also dissatisfied with my play with her tonight and found myself going back to old flames and sandbags.
I regret the matches I missed playing others instead of her. My pride gotthe best of me due to my inability to KO with her. Growing Pains. I need stay strong and keep with her.

Don't worry about notk illing. Just use the Peach motto.
"Keep hitting your opponent, and they will die eventually."

ZSS's best moves are also her kill moves.
F-SMASH!

 

[Popertop]

ftilt is 6 frames. since you have to drop shield it's 13 to do it "OOS" so yeah not really an amazing option

SNAAAAAAKEE EEEYYEESSS!!!

(lol)

 

[ph00tbag]

Don't worry about notk illing. Just use the Peach motto.
"Keep hitting your opponent, and they will die eventually."

ZSS's best moves are also her kill moves.
F-SMASH!

Yeah, this is pretty much my philosophy with ZSS now. Although I have started using Plasma Whip as more of a KO move once my opponent is off the stage.

 

[NickRiddle]

F-smash at 180. Best kill move ever.
Other than angled-down f-tilt at 200.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Down-angled f-tilt is a freaking badass edgeguard, seriously. It kills much earlier than you can expect when you're that close to the blast zone.

 

[NickRiddle]

Down-angled f-tilt is a freaking badass edgeguard, seriously. It kills much earlier than you can expect when you're that close to the blast zone.

Only if they do not DI it well.

Link at 70 if they jump.
:3

 

[Tien2500]

Anyone know what the percentage of tripping is on this? Low Ftilt/trip/dsmash is pretty fun. Not really that useful in general but fun when it happens.

 

[noradseven]

Anyone know what the percentage of tripping is on this? Low Ftilt/trip/dsmash is pretty fun. Not really that useful in general but fun when it happens.

secret low f-tilt has a lower chance of tripping than normal f-tilt hehe.

 

[ThreeSided]

secret low f-tilt has a lower chance of tripping than normal f-tilt hehe.

I thought that it had to do with percentage? I heard that down-tilted Ftilt has the highest chance to hit at low percentages, mid at mid, and high at high.

Also, Ftilt cancels with a thrown suit piece quite well.

 

[ph00tbag]

I thought that it had to do with percentage? I heard that down-tilted Ftilt has the highest chance to hit at low percentages, mid at mid, and high at high.

Also, Ftilt cancels with a thrown suit piece quite well.

This is the most accurate way of looking at it, although mid and high have the same chance. It's actually been known for several months.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Her F-tilt is a fast start up and good range. It also trips fairly often, not enough where you can time, but often. I'm starting to think its a little underrated.

 

[noradseven]

Her F-tilt is has a fast start up and good range. It also trips fairly often, not enough where you can time, but often. I'm starting to think its a little underrated.

its only cause it was overrated like 1 year ago by some of us then we started getting punished for it all the time.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Going to be updateing this soon. I'm not sure how or if I can change the title?

Any thoughts for the next move to discuss

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Jab. I have a lot to whine about.

 

[noradseven]

Jab. I have a lot to whine about.

it is still an okay AA

Also HEY GUYZ I BEAT A LV 3 PIKACHU BY MASHING THE A BUTTON...lol tru story did this today *puts on cool shades

 

[Nefarious B]

jab is all about taking advantage of the fact that your opponent can PS, and using this knowledge against them. The only matchup where jab is too risky to be used imo is a good marth. I tried jab to shield to bait DS but it's just not fast enough, you get hit everytime.

 

[noradseven]

jab is all about comming out on frame 1... and even though it being unsafe crouch canceling the first hit is tricky to react too, basically its change the situation from your under pressure to neutral point blank, and 1 more move off your degrading list I guess lol, and 1 % damage if you care about that.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Will someone with the power to do so, change the (currently on Ftilt to Jab)?

 

[TheRockSays]

Yea is a growing pain trying to kill sometimes like serious they be going over 160% im like O_O baka.
Im using the dash atk less and less because i get shield grab to much.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Thing about ftilt is that it's 100% safe on most characters. Try it on Luigi some time for extreme lulz.

Dtilt can't claim that. If you hit someone's shield with Dtilt they can punish it. Yes they can. Don't argue.

Ftilt knocks the opponent backward thus eliminating any OOS options and giving you space. It also has broken range and the down-angled one is a great edgeguard option at high percents (it kills).

Wow didn't know ftilt was that useful on luigi, I guess this matchup will be a bit better from this point on.

 

[noradseven]

Wow didn't know ftilt was that useful on luigi, I guess this matchup will be a bit better from this point on.

Any luigi worth their salt will PS it after seeing it a few times, and trust me f-tilt is very punishable on PS.

 

[NickRiddle]

Eww, why is this still on this terrible move?

 

[xxpatgxx]

Fsmash is amazing, I kill lots of people with it, when they airdodge back to the stage and don't expect it.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

Still waiting on a thread title change..unless I can do it then someone enlighten me.