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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
mmmmm ya well both of you are right I was already considering retreating and rising.
I need to work on my timing of things like using side b to blow up nades he has or is about to throw.
Also Poke remind me to get you to coach me next tourney you obviously are the best coach :D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dhem4MqFPs

Poke for Rocky coach masta ^^
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Pretend the Diddy can and will infinite you given the opportunity. Being afraid of getting infinited helped me play safer against Zinoto and P-1 XD

If you have trouble pretending, think about the possibility that whichever Diddy you're playing is lying to you when he tells you that he can't do the infinite so that he can pull it out in tournament and make an upset.

If vids help, here
http://www.twitch.tv/fishflopstreams/b/3610154035:32:45 = me vs Zinoto
6:31:15 = me vs Player-1

I both 3 stock and get 3-stocked by P-1 so that set should have some good examples of the dos and don'ts of the MU I guess maybe sorta
 

Colton Korgel

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
1
Just wondering, I'm working on getting better and specifically beating my brother who plays D3, and his playstyle is just throwing waddle dees off cooldown and shield grabbing when i try to approach him, which is hindered by his dees and doos. I was just wondering how I should counter this strategy, since I'm having a hard time navigating through them to get in a position to grab or spotdodge or whatever, advice is appreciated!
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
I'm going to have to say it depends on you really it seems to me that alot of the high level players who still play melee keep it on and don't change controls keep it on cause they are used to it.
I think that the only issue your going to have is if your not in complete control while doing things like up tilts or what ever causing your self to accidentally jump as zss can go bad especially if you get knocked off after using a second,jump
 

wangston

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
1,660
Location
Provo Utah
What do I need to do against Fox? I can never down smash him unless I get a hard read on him. My problem with the match up is I don't know what to do with him once he is in the air. If I try to get him he will just stall with down b then dair me if I do anything and don't reach him. I try to just shield his dair and utilt after wards, some times it will hit and other times it won't. But if it does hit then it just resets to him stalling with down b and looking to drill kick. If that doesn't happen fox just runs away and shots lazers. What moves out prioritizes his?

Any ideas?
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Try standing underneath a platform to help mitigate the shine stall > Dair option
Trying to play too much out of shield against Fox seems to be a recipe for disaster, in my experience
Playing mobile with smart pokes seems to work better imho

If all else fails, hit the B button on the character select screen and pick ice climbers
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Try to d-tilt alot to get him in the air and at low % he prob will stall with down b so you can't downsmash him but trying,things like pivot grab especially if you can bait his down airs.

you might have my problem where you fish for the downsmash against him to Much.
also if hes being a jerk by continuous stall You should try to remember. You don't need to approach him in the air if you can just up b him back to the ground. (easier to read him if his options are limited , IE up b'd him to the ground and he didn't tech so you have like 4 guesses as opposed to the 12+ he has in the air.)

I agree with delux about the platform also try to bring him to stages like yoshis smash Ville or lylat.
 

wangston

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
1,660
Location
Provo Utah
Cool, thanks. I can just go falco because he was my main until I switched last year, so I can beat Fox if I counter pick but i would rather just learn the match up.
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Jump at him, wait for the shine stall, then uair him. He shouldn't get away with it every time, it should become a guessing game.
Also your uair outdisjoints his dair so if you're spacing properly he shouldn't dair you ever anyway
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
  1. Jump at him, wait for the shine stall, then uair him. He shouldn't get away with it every time, it should become a guessing game.
    Also your uair outdisjoints his dair so if you're spacing properly he shouldn't dair you ever anyway
    I try to do that sometimes but then they do crap like shine -> airdodge mix UPS ;(
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Intelligent use of platforms while juggling is a thing
Just FYI BTW

Option limitation helps when you aren't sure what option they are going to do
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Intelligent use of platforms while juggling is a thing
Just FYI BTW

Option limitation helps when you aren't sure what option they are going to do
Some of the only times i get that tingly feeling of landing more then 2 up airs on someone XD
 

Bees!

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
707
Location
Colorado
What do you do in the Snake MU? I am still getting the hang of ZSS's MUs but Snake feels unwinnable to me.
 

Bees!

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
707
Location
Colorado
Yeah, I know it is even. I am saying that in my current knowledge of the matchup it feels so difficult. Which brings me back to my original question: What do you do in the MU? Also I want to add: How do you avoid the grenade camping with Zero Suit? I would appreciate some guidance.

Edit: I just recently got some advice but it would be good to get more. I have also read the matchup discussions but I guess certain things I am having a hard time with.
 
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pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Yeah, I know it is even. I am saying that in my current knowledge of the matchup it feels so difficult. Which brings me back to my original question: What do you do in the MU? Also I want to add: How do you avoid the grenade camping with Zero Suit? I would appreciate some guidance.

Edit: I just recently got some advice but it would be good to get more. I have also read the matchup discussions but I guess certain things I am having a hard time with.
well few things to take note of I guess would be that,

1. his grenades can be set off with side b especially when he's trying to just "cook" them to throw off your timing.

2. Try to be aware of where you position your self if your ever at melee range so you can di/sdi things like his jab and f-tilt of doom.

3. Make him work to get back on stage whilst if at all possible continue to pressure him so you get/keep him offstage when he has a c-4 onstage(auto gimps are fun).

4. make sure you know how to di his up-tilt... Was a long while till I found out how awkward the upward angle was...

Aside from that the only things you can really do to help you with the fight is think about stages you can work on more comfortably then snake. I.E ( even though I have a new found love for smashville I probably won't want to go there because a lot of snakes like to use the platform to increase their c-4/downsmash range coverage .)

Well about to start work hope that helps you even the slightest cause snake is an annoying match up especially on FD.
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
anytime bro I guess one more thing , look out for chances to set up gimps on snake when he up bs back onto stage during recovery the ledge air release after he up bs close to the edge is nice, However beware of where your standing when trying to grab him out of his cipher...err to early to remember if that's the right spelling.
. What I'll do to give you an idea is find a stream set I had vs a decent snake so you have a bit of an example.

after work today that is -_-0
*edit 2 days later xD*
@ Bees! Bees! Ok bro sorry I took 2 years here is a stream set vs a snake \
http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/475959434

at 1hr 38 minutes you should make sure to remember not to do what I did on FD 1 match ....Trust you'll know when you see it XD.
nm that much dd
never mind must have been a doubles match
 
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Bees!

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
707
Location
Colorado
anytime bro I guess one more thing , look out for chances to set up gimps on snake when he up bs back onto stage during recovery the ledge air release after he up bs close to the edge is nice, However beware of where your standing when trying to grab him out of his cipher...err to early to remember if that's the right spelling.
. What I'll do to give you an idea is find a stream set I had vs a decent snake so you have a bit of an example.

after work today that is -_-0
*edit 2 days later xD*
@ Bees! Bees! Ok bro sorry I took 2 years here is a stream set vs a snake \
http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/475959434

at 1hr 38 minutes you should make sure to remember not to do what I did on FD 1 match ....Trust you'll know when you see it XD.
nm that much dd
never mind must have been a doubles match
Thanks I will take a look at this. Either way I could use all of the help I can get. I will try to see if I can find matches at mid to high level play of Zss vs Snake.
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
ya that's cool mprime and I are probably just below mid tier still alot of things that need to be respected and acknowledged lol.
psh I shoulda played Ally all those times I had a chance. -_-0
 

Din8595

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
105
Location
Orlando, Fl
NNID
Din8595
Can someone explain how to do the stun infinite on R.O.B.?
I know it has something to do with a weird glitched foot stool.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Downsmash.
Turn around.
Footstool before he is released from the stun of d-smash and immediately dair.
Paralyzer.
Second paralyzer for timing.
D-smash.
Rinse/repeat.

ROB's footstool animation brings you lower than anybody else's in the game.
You auto-cancel the dair on frame 1, or something like that, and you end up landing on the ground.
You lock him with the paralyzer.
 

Psalm

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Louisiana
Hey guys, so I'm new to ZSS and I have read the guide and such, but I am having problems at retaining stage control against Meta Knight. If I get the lead I have problems keeping it due to Meta's OP aerials and his tornado. I can punish the nado but by the time I get close to a retreating tornado he can whip out a Dsmash, or a few tilts. What's the best way to play when a MK has control?
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
You're too slow on punishing the retreating nados. Also none of MK's aerials are safe on ZSS' shield at neutral, except for a well spaced retreating sh fair; anything else you can punish with utilt/dtilt OoS...or if he's doing a jumping dair on your shield, punish that **** with uair/nair/fair/bair depending on how he does it.

Dunno what you mean by MK having control but if you have the lead just play safe. Try these and lemme know how it works

- Watch MK dair camp, wait for the nado, shield and punish. Or, wait for a hole in his dair camping and punish with an aerial
- When he approaches with ftilt, shield it and observe what he does. Does he just go for all 3 hits, even though he's hitting your shield? Or does he usually stop after the 2nd hit because he knows the 3rd one is really unsafe on shield? If the former, you get a free punish if you shield the 3rd hit; shieldgrab, drop shield --> dash attack/ftilt/dtilt all work. You can also drop shield --> dsmash but the timing for that is strict. If the latter, then drop shield --> dtilt as soon as you see that the 2nd one hit your shield. This also works if he usually pauses after the first one (eg a lot of MKs go for ftilt1 --> dtilt). If he's not predictable enough for this flowchart to work, then you'll have to actually predict what he's going to do and mix up your own options in response to that.
 

Psalm

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Louisiana
Thanks, I should go ahead and say that I'll be posting here quite a bit. What are your suggestions for a kill move on MK?
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
ZSS has great kill potential; her kill moves don't kill particularly early but they're all reliable and kill at reasonable percents. A fresh back air near the edge of the stage will kill at like 110-120%, same goes for forward air (2nd hit) except it kills a little earlier but is harder to land. Both of these moves are strongest at the tip of the foot btw, so make sure you do that if you get a dsmash at kill % and you want to finish them off with one of these moves, hit with the tip of the foot.

Fresh sideB near the edge of the stage will kill MK at like 95
A fresh uair will kill a grounded MK at like 145

In terms of reliability and what you're most likely to kill with, I'd say bair --> uair/sideB --> fair, assuming these are not following a dsmash

Our downB spike is really strong but obviously very risky as well. If you hit with it from about eye-level with the stage, it'll kill MK at like...30-35. Obviously the higher up he is on the stage, the more % it takes for him to die.
Our upB spike is safe but hard to hit, and it's pretty weak so if MK's at eye level with the stage it won't kill him til about 100%.

Also, if you get a grab, and you don't throw MK, MK will automatically air release (unless he breaks out while you're pummelling). ZSS gets a lot of guaranteed followups out of air release on MK, including dash grab (so we can chaingrab him), running usmash/dash attack (dash attack is good at low-mid %s cause it combos into other stuff so it's good damage), uair (so yes, if you get a grab on MK at kill% you can get a guaranteed uair to kill), fair (really hard), nair (fairly hard)...and I think that's it.
You'll want to practice air release --> uair but after you've practiced it, it's fairly easy. What this means is that if you get a grab on an MK near kill %s,you can pummel during the chaingrab (ie pummel once or twice --> air release --> regrab --> repeat) to deal damage and unstale your uair, and then kill with air release --> uair.

All of these %s mean MK is at this % BEFORE you hit him, so if you hit MK with a fresh bair at 110 and it does 13%, it'll send him to 123% and probably kill.
If you hit him at 97 and it does 13%, it'll send him to 110% and won't kill.

Generally, I keep bair fresh until I know the opponent (of any character) is at kill %, and then use it to kill. Uair is usually stale for me since I use it to juggle to rack up damage, so I don't usually kill with uair though. Against MK however, since he's fairly light and we get a guaranteed uair to kill out of air release, then you can use both uair and bair to deal damage without really having to worry too much about your kill moves being stale (especially with the pummels you get during the chaingrab)

Also...at high %s (like 100+) you can get triple dsmash --> uair/bair, but the timing is pretty tight (especially for bair, I'm not even sure if it's guaranteed)
I think that's it. Once again, excluding dsmash followups, bair --> uair/sideB --> fair2 --> upB --> downB in terms of reliability
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Lol not really. You shouldn't really go for offstage downB kills unless
- You were standing at the edge, edgeguarding with dsmash and you stunned them offstage with dsmash and you can now get a guaranteed downB spike
- You were standing at the edge, edgeguarding with fully charged laser and you stunned them offstage with the fully charged laser and you can now get a guaranteed downB spike (to do this, shoot the fully charged laser. Run offstage if it LOOKS like it'll hit the opponent in a position where you can spike them, go for the spike AFTER it connects. If it doesn't connect, just get back on stage or maybe followup the edgeguard if they airdodged through the laser and you can punish it)
- Your opponent is put in a really vulnerable position (eg Snake/Lucario/etc recovering with upB) or they go for a really greedy edgeguard that can be countered by downB spike (eg MK going for a jumping dair offstage to hit you, or DK going for a jumping bair...though with these you have to be careful because if you throw out the downB preemptively...that's pretty much your stock)
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Another good time to go for flip jump kick off stage is when you have Chibo on the ledge at kill percent after you've taken 11 consecutive Nairs from ROB and you're already guaranteed first seed in your pool so YOLO
 
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