Heero Yuy
#sweg
How do you angle the kick from downB? I'm not sure if my eyes are deceiving me, but when she normally kicks inward, I see her kick go outward instead. (I'll clarify with some footage if I have to.)
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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers
- Thread starter phanna
- Start date
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
You mean left or right?
Just... hold that direction while throwing the kick out.
Just... hold that direction while throwing the kick out.
Shadow Tactics
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2008
- Messages
- 62
ok, i haven't played seriously in about 3 years due to being majorly addicted to ssf4, so some of this might sound stupid
i'd like to know peoples thoughts on the following things:
1. single dsmash -> weak hit of uair. i've found that at low %s it can lead to a lot of things due to how it pops the opponent up at an ideal height. also it seems to shieldpoke at times and can lead to combos. does anyone else mess with this from time to time?
2. should dsmash -> bair only be used for killing? why does nobody do dsmash x2 -> uair? i'd have thought that it'd be better for juggle potential.
3. is dtilt safe on powershield? i also remember a post about dsmash -> dtilt being a good option and safe on most characters, i can't quite remember as it was so long ago. i'd like to know the details on that one.
4. any info on situations where usmash is particularly useful? on some characters i've found that it's been fairly decent oos at times and also can be used as sort of a "parry" on some stuff. can't remember when it's worked for me though which is why i'm asking this.
5. i had a weird moment earlier where i had an item piece on a BF platform & i used upsmash under it and it started bouncing the item piece. i have no idea what i did to start that off and i can't figure out how to replicate it. anyone know?
6. zss's 2 different jumps (the one where she curls up & then the one where she extends herself), what are the reasons that one should be used in certain situations as opposed to the other?
that's all i can really think of for now
i'd like to know peoples thoughts on the following things:
1. single dsmash -> weak hit of uair. i've found that at low %s it can lead to a lot of things due to how it pops the opponent up at an ideal height. also it seems to shieldpoke at times and can lead to combos. does anyone else mess with this from time to time?
2. should dsmash -> bair only be used for killing? why does nobody do dsmash x2 -> uair? i'd have thought that it'd be better for juggle potential.
3. is dtilt safe on powershield? i also remember a post about dsmash -> dtilt being a good option and safe on most characters, i can't quite remember as it was so long ago. i'd like to know the details on that one.
4. any info on situations where usmash is particularly useful? on some characters i've found that it's been fairly decent oos at times and also can be used as sort of a "parry" on some stuff. can't remember when it's worked for me though which is why i'm asking this.
5. i had a weird moment earlier where i had an item piece on a BF platform & i used upsmash under it and it started bouncing the item piece. i have no idea what i did to start that off and i can't figure out how to replicate it. anyone know?
6. zss's 2 different jumps (the one where she curls up & then the one where she extends herself), what are the reasons that one should be used in certain situations as opposed to the other?
that's all i can really think of for now
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Figured it out easily. Thanks, Nick! :D
Shadow, you took the words right out of my mouth. I hope to look at the same answers you get, myself.
Anyways, had some matches with a Wario main online and got my @$$ handed (2-stocked both times). Just a few of my mistakes I've noticed I did:
- I was too predictable overall and he read me very easily.
- The delay kinda disabled me from doing some gimmicks I usually do offline.
- Threw my armor pieces right into his mouth.
- I have 0 experience fighting Warios. I completely forgot his aerials are amazing.
Does anyone have tips on facing a Wario? (I'll look for a matchup thread in this board, too.)
Shadow, you took the words right out of my mouth. I hope to look at the same answers you get, myself.
Anyways, had some matches with a Wario main online and got my @$$ handed (2-stocked both times). Just a few of my mistakes I've noticed I did:
- I was too predictable overall and he read me very easily.
- The delay kinda disabled me from doing some gimmicks I usually do offline.
- Threw my armor pieces right into his mouth.
- I have 0 experience fighting Warios. I completely forgot his aerials are amazing.
Does anyone have tips on facing a Wario? (I'll look for a matchup thread in this board, too.)
BlueXenon
Smash Lord
What are the best ways to punish roll and spot dodge habits as ZSS?
And if I see my opponents are landing with aerials when I try to juggle them, will her pivot grab beat the aerials?
And if I see my opponents are landing with aerials when I try to juggle them, will her pivot grab beat the aerials?
Shadow Tactics
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2008
- Messages
- 62
the answer to the first question, is downsmash. more specifically, charged dsmash for the spot dodge & pivot dsmash for rolls.
as for the second, pivot grab should win, though sometimes you'll still take the damage even if you land the grab. aside from pivot grab you should try punishing that with spaced dsmash or powershield then punish with uair/dtilt/bair etc.
if you're still learning it, don't bother with the gimmicks for now and focus on learning the fundamentals of the matchup like spacing/punishes & such. you should throw the armor pieces upwards most of the time to gain stage control, also if he tries to swallow items try glidetossing towards him throwing upwards then punish bite with grab -> grab release combos. warios aerials are amazing but so are yours. juggling with upair and spacing with side b are what i mainly use in this matchup, a bit of bair too but i mostly try and save that for killing. i also use dash pivot neutral b to space and for stage control, it's pretty good and you can even combo off it at times if it hits. hes slippery and you probably won't be landing many dsmashes (if any) if he's good. that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it though, i throw it out now and then just to remind him that he can't be reckless when it comes to approaching (e.g. i single dash away then pivot dsmash). also if i feel im spaced well when he attempts to land close to me, i try to punish his landing with dsmash (if you're not spaced correctly he'll just hit you out of it, in which case you can go for a pivot grab). watch for the fart, it's especially good at nullifying zss's recovery attempts and gets him an early KO.
Shadow Tactics
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2008
- Messages
- 62
oops, double post
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Yeah, I needed the criticism. Thanks! I do have to note that glidetossing on the Wifi seemed really difficult for me, however. And yeah, I found out the hard way that Dsmashes aren't very effective in this MU. This character is quite unpredictable for me.
I'm a previous Marth main trying out ZSS. I miss all of Marth's OoS options. Grab, upb, fair, dancing blade, etc. ZSS seems to have none outside of uptilt (or uair if you're hit by an aerial). I've heard upsmash works OoS but should be done by jump canceling? How does one do this and why is it necessary to jump cancel your upsmash?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Just jump out of shield and input the usmash ASAP after the jump.
It's necessary because it allows your usmash to come out more quickly. Jumps cancel your shield immediately and the jumps themselves can be cancelled immediately by an usmash (if you input a jump and an usmash on the same frame, your jumpsquat animation won't even start). Dropping your shield, however, induces 7 frames of lag.
It's necessary because it allows your usmash to come out more quickly. Jumps cancel your shield immediately and the jumps themselves can be cancelled immediately by an usmash (if you input a jump and an usmash on the same frame, your jumpsquat animation won't even start). Dropping your shield, however, induces 7 frames of lag.
Cool. TY. Should I jump and c stick? Or jump and use joystick up + a? I seem to be doing up airs instead. Had to tell if I'm doing it right.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Either works. If you're doing up airs, you aren't inputting the up+a (or on C-stick) soon enough.
BlueXenon
Smash Lord
When should I use double dsmash and when should I just hit by opponent after one dsmash?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Only times you should use 1 dsmash and then follow up is
-To do the dsmash chain
-Sometimes in dubs
-At low %s if you know you can do dsmash --> nair --> fair on the opponent (pretty sure it's not guaranteed but some opponents suck)
-If 1 dsmash puts them at the perfect % to DAL but 2 gives them too much damage, and you know the DAL will be the higher % followup
-Dsmash --> stage spike/regular spike/footstool offstage
-Gimmicky stuff like the ROB infinite/banana infinite/etc
Otherwise you always use 2 dsmashes --> followup, unless you're going for triple dsmash --> followup (usually uair or airdodge read into something else) at high %s
-To do the dsmash chain
-Sometimes in dubs
-At low %s if you know you can do dsmash --> nair --> fair on the opponent (pretty sure it's not guaranteed but some opponents suck)
-If 1 dsmash puts them at the perfect % to DAL but 2 gives them too much damage, and you know the DAL will be the higher % followup
-Dsmash --> stage spike/regular spike/footstool offstage
-Gimmicky stuff like the ROB infinite/banana infinite/etc
Otherwise you always use 2 dsmashes --> followup, unless you're going for triple dsmash --> followup (usually uair or airdodge read into something else) at high %s
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
When should I gab to grab with Zss ? :3
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Against Flaoc
practice instant tossing with an item the same weight as a suit piece. He is good at it because he knows where the suit pieces are even when they are off screen. this is something item users will just naturally be better at so dont get discouraged if you arent getting it right away.
an experienced wario/zss/toonlink knows "i can throw the bomb up, then i can do this this and that then catch the bomb again"
an experienced wario/zss/toonlink knows "i can throw the bomb up, then i can do this this and that then catch the bomb again"
Mm, point taken. Experience is important. But I was just amazed at how salem was able to juggle all 3 items on stages with platforms like BF. He seems to be able to throw all 3 item piecse into the air by hopping once. I need to hop 3 times and throw each one individually.
... And what's an instant toss?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Airdodge-cancelling item toss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8
The airdodge catches the item and the item toss tosses the item (obviously)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8
The airdodge catches the item and the item toss tosses the item (obviously)
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Faced a fellow from the Link boards today and did fair against him judging by my rookie skill level. He used Link, Lucario, and Pika (ugh), and end up going about 4-1 (his victory). I asked for some criticism, and the biggest one he gave to me was that I need to work on my spacing up-close, but my distance spacing was fine. What are ZSS's options when someone gets right into her face?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Depends on how up close you're talking. Against most chars you generally don't want to be any closer than tip of dsmash/dtilt range, cause ZSS' full jab combo doesn't work on most of the cast (they can just hold shield and they'll PS the 3rd hit, and then they can shieldgrab you. I think the full combo works on Lucario though) and her grab is very slow, so if you're in your opponents grab range chances are you're going to get grabbed before they grab you.
ZSS' tilts are also punishable on shield, though a dtilt at max range is hard to punish with some chars.
Generally your best option is to either mixup your jab game very well, or to get out of there. Or dsmash/grab (mostly dsmash) when you know they're going to shield.
If you're out of your opponents grab range, usually you can dsmash to pressure them. Obviously against chars with big, quick hitboxes at close range (eg Snake, MK) this is riskier and harder to do, cause they might hit you first. Against a char like Link it's a much better option.
Against some chars though(eg Link, Olimar, Sonic), ZSS really likes being very close up because her jab and tilts work well against them once you learn how to use them.
ZSS' tilts are also punishable on shield, though a dtilt at max range is hard to punish with some chars.
Generally your best option is to either mixup your jab game very well, or to get out of there. Or dsmash/grab (mostly dsmash) when you know they're going to shield.
If you're out of your opponents grab range, usually you can dsmash to pressure them. Obviously against chars with big, quick hitboxes at close range (eg Snake, MK) this is riskier and harder to do, cause they might hit you first. Against a char like Link it's a much better option.
Against some chars though(eg Link, Olimar, Sonic), ZSS really likes being very close up because her jab and tilts work well against them once you learn how to use them.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
I don't think the problem for me in that match was getting spammed with Zair, but moreso I was getting outspaced whenever he landed next to me. Also, Usmash at any time I would flip jump over him was a spirit-crusher...
Lol, funny I noticed Heero posting here. 
Anyways, I agree with v115. Some good jab mixups would've left me cautious to try to approach you. Not gonna lie though, the way I was playing I was jumping in all kamikaze-like so I might have done it anyways. xD That frame one or two (can't remember for ZSS) jab is too scary for Link in particular of all those characters. He has no way to counter that (quickest attack being a jab on frame 7 OoS, which gives you a huge amount of time to punish however you please).
All this critique coming from a Link main who probably could count on both hands the number of times he's played ZSS, so take it as you will lol.
Anyways, I agree with v115. Some good jab mixups would've left me cautious to try to approach you. Not gonna lie though, the way I was playing I was jumping in all kamikaze-like so I might have done it anyways. xD That frame one or two (can't remember for ZSS) jab is too scary for Link in particular of all those characters. He has no way to counter that (quickest attack being a jab on frame 7 OoS, which gives you a huge amount of time to punish however you please).
All this critique coming from a Link main who probably could count on both hands the number of times he's played ZSS, so take it as you will lol.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Oh, hiya Ano. :D Sorry if I happen to be gossiping about you in another board. xD
I'm also curious if there's any control button config for the GC Controller that makes it easy for good ZSS players. For example, with the USmash OoS, it's a bit hard for me to jump right out of the shield and cancel with a USmash on the C-stick. (Unless there's an easier way to do it that I don't know about.)
(Edit: On that note, I kinda need to know a few things on OoS in Brawl in general. I can do it so easily in Melee, but the lag n' stuff in Brawl makes it so much different from that game.)
I'm also curious if there's any control button config for the GC Controller that makes it easy for good ZSS players. For example, with the USmash OoS, it's a bit hard for me to jump right out of the shield and cancel with a USmash on the C-stick. (Unless there's an easier way to do it that I don't know about.)
(Edit: On that note, I kinda need to know a few things on OoS in Brawl in general. I can do it so easily in Melee, but the lag n' stuff in Brawl makes it so much different from that game.)
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Well you don't need to use the C-stick for JCusmashOoS.
If you have tap jump on, then while you're holding shield, smash up on the analog and then press A.
If you don't, then assuming you still have X set to jump and A set to attack, then use those two.
If you don't have those set like that and you don't want to change them back, is there a button you don't use? eg most people only use one of the shoulder buttons (I use L) to shield. So change the one you don't use to jump, and then use that + C-stick.
If you have tap jump on, then while you're holding shield, smash up on the analog and then press A.
If you don't, then assuming you still have X set to jump and A set to attack, then use those two.
If you don't have those set like that and you don't want to change them back, is there a button you don't use? eg most people only use one of the shoulder buttons (I use L) to shield. So change the one you don't use to jump, and then use that + C-stick.
Spaghetti
Smash Apprentice
hey guys, been maining ZSS for a couple weeks now and was looking for some tips ^^
is there a best way to cancel her dash into picking up items off the ground? so far i've been just dashing, shielding and then picking up the piece but i was hoping there was a better method than that TT. tried looking around to see if there was a guide on her item game but i couldn't find one anywhere (although watching salem on youtube has been my zss 101 so far)
also is it possible to pull off the side b wavebounce thing without b-sticking? i've been having difficulty pulling it off - i can do it fine with regular b
thanks in advance <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
is there a best way to cancel her dash into picking up items off the ground? so far i've been just dashing, shielding and then picking up the piece but i was hoping there was a better method than that TT. tried looking around to see if there was a guide on her item game but i couldn't find one anywhere (although watching salem on youtube has been my zss 101 so far)
also is it possible to pull off the side b wavebounce thing without b-sticking? i've been having difficulty pulling it off - i can do it fine with regular b
thanks in advance <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
Spaghetti
Smash Apprentice
oh god does that actually work
asdfkljsdhfklsdjfhkljhzxlkvuhpoxuvy[p8yu[0823uufofsf
edit: i havent been able to pull it off for really short distances (like when it's about one forward dodge away), but i've been getting it down for longer ones. thanks dude
asdfkljsdhfklsdjfhkljhzxlkvuhpoxuvy[p8yu[0823uufofsf
edit: i havent been able to pull it off for really short distances (like when it's about one forward dodge away), but i've been getting it down for longer ones. thanks dude
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
That only works during a run.
You could also SH > Z-pickup.
You could also SH > Z-pickup.
Spaghetti
Smash Apprentice
cool, thanks riddle! ill make you guys proud one day ;-;
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Spaghetti
Smash Apprentice
good to know, thanks. i'll try not to make that mistake in the future :E
--
i've been having a lot of trouble with falco recently TT - i don't know any falco players so i've been resorting to level 9s but reflectors keep messing up all the things i'm trying to do with the item pieces. do you guys have any advice? i've been watching tons of vids but i'm still not totally sure what my options are with the suit against falco
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
When you're holding the suitpiece, jump around outside of his reflector range. More specifically, jump away a bit, if he reflectors, b-reverse the sideB towards him.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
It's really stupid when you do that =_=
I should just Jab the suit piece if you throw it at me.
Also, when is it a good time to check a watch ?
HeeroYuy, message me on AiB/ I'm mostly in the chat rooms.
If you want to that is.
Last edit, home time now.
Spaghetti
Smash Apprentice
aaaaah my reflexes aren't fast enough to react to powershield/jab reflected flying projectiles and lasers ;-;
gotta get gud
gotta get gud
Another good way to deal with Falcos reflector is to just zdrop/airodge in (im not sure what this is called, but you hold Z instead of just tapping it, you will drop the item while airdodging so it wont hurt you as it gets reflected) do whatever you want to him. This is useful if you don't have the time, space or momentum to retreat and b reverse a frame 20 move back at him and lets you keep that killer fresh.
I have just picked up ZZS recently and I have been wondering what exactly should I do for edge guarding?? I find myself just sitting there shooting lasers and over committing to d-smashes.
And also what is a good way to build up damage with out d-smashes, because I really do not know any other ways without starting the d-smash x 2 and the follow ups because sometimes I struggle getting the d-smashes. Thanks in advance.
And also what is a good way to build up damage with out d-smashes, because I really do not know any other ways without starting the d-smash x 2 and the follow ups because sometimes I struggle getting the d-smashes. Thanks in advance.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Learn the dash attack lock. Basically, at around 40% (give or take a few % depending on weight) on every char in the game but Kirby, ZSS can consecutively dash attack the opponent and then finish off with a tilt of her choice.
You have to buffer the dash attacks as well as the tilts.
I'd say that at about 25% (again give or take a few % depending on weight) before the dash attack, dash attack --> utilt is a true combo.
And then dtilt/ftilt are true combos out of dash attack at roughly the same % as the DAL.
I should also mention that at very low %s (if I were to guess I'd say 10% and below), dash attack is actually unsafe on hit (ie if you dash attack your opponent, your opponent can punish you for it)
Outside of this, dtilt is good for damage. It puts your opponent into a more-or-less RPS situation because they're popped above you. If they airdodge immediately, you can dsmash the landing but you won't be able hit them with an aerial. If they don't airdodge (basically if they just fall and do nothing), dsmash is unsafe cause they might hit you with an aerial on reaction, but then dtilt --> uair/nair/fair becomes an option. If they aerial right away, you can dsmash --> shield aerial --> utilt. Of course this depends on how they space the aerial, what the aerial is, etc. If they jump away after the dtilt, you don't get any guaranteed followups but it puts them in a bad position.
Dtilt does 6%
Uair and nair do 10% when fresh (nair never stales though so it ALWAYS does 10%)
Fair1 does 6%, fair2 does 12%, but for some reason when both hits connect it's 17%
Utilt does 12% when both hits connect (both hits connect like 95% of the time)
There are a lot of other things to mention but you'll pick up on these things with experience. For now, realize that most of your damage will come from dsmash strings, the dash attack lock (and general dash attack strings) sideB and juggling. Minor damage will come from tilt strings and laser strings.
An important thing to keep in mind with ZSS is that you can't punish landings all the time with dsmash. ZSS is a character that revolves around good positioning, so at times you'll have to accept the fact that you can only get a soft punish (on landings and other things) with things such as tilts or dash attack.
Edgeguarding is risky with ZSS if you're not experienced so be careful with that. For starters, try to bait airdodges with fully charged lasers and then punish the airdodges with nair/uair/fair. Bait airdodges just by positioning yourself near the opponent and then punish with an aerial; don't go too far out there though. And keep in mind that sideB and dsmash are low-risk high-reward options when edgeguarding, so don't hesitate to use them; it's just that you'll have to be creative to get off sideBs usually.
You have to buffer the dash attacks as well as the tilts.
I'd say that at about 25% (again give or take a few % depending on weight) before the dash attack, dash attack --> utilt is a true combo.
And then dtilt/ftilt are true combos out of dash attack at roughly the same % as the DAL.
I should also mention that at very low %s (if I were to guess I'd say 10% and below), dash attack is actually unsafe on hit (ie if you dash attack your opponent, your opponent can punish you for it)
Outside of this, dtilt is good for damage. It puts your opponent into a more-or-less RPS situation because they're popped above you. If they airdodge immediately, you can dsmash the landing but you won't be able hit them with an aerial. If they don't airdodge (basically if they just fall and do nothing), dsmash is unsafe cause they might hit you with an aerial on reaction, but then dtilt --> uair/nair/fair becomes an option. If they aerial right away, you can dsmash --> shield aerial --> utilt. Of course this depends on how they space the aerial, what the aerial is, etc. If they jump away after the dtilt, you don't get any guaranteed followups but it puts them in a bad position.
Dtilt does 6%
Uair and nair do 10% when fresh (nair never stales though so it ALWAYS does 10%)
Fair1 does 6%, fair2 does 12%, but for some reason when both hits connect it's 17%
Utilt does 12% when both hits connect (both hits connect like 95% of the time)
There are a lot of other things to mention but you'll pick up on these things with experience. For now, realize that most of your damage will come from dsmash strings, the dash attack lock (and general dash attack strings) sideB and juggling. Minor damage will come from tilt strings and laser strings.
An important thing to keep in mind with ZSS is that you can't punish landings all the time with dsmash. ZSS is a character that revolves around good positioning, so at times you'll have to accept the fact that you can only get a soft punish (on landings and other things) with things such as tilts or dash attack.
Edgeguarding is risky with ZSS if you're not experienced so be careful with that. For starters, try to bait airdodges with fully charged lasers and then punish the airdodges with nair/uair/fair. Bait airdodges just by positioning yourself near the opponent and then punish with an aerial; don't go too far out there though. And keep in mind that sideB and dsmash are low-risk high-reward options when edgeguarding, so don't hesitate to use them; it's just that you'll have to be creative to get off sideBs usually.