• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Zelda's Roll Cancel Pivot Grab - Approaching Melee Marth Levels

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
I figured this could use it's own thread!

NOTE: I do not take credit for this technique. Someone else discovered it, but I can't remember for the life of me where I read it. I am simply documenting Zelda's range with this technique!

So what is a Roll Cancel Pivot Grab? How do you do one?

- Dash
- Input a roll with R + directional input opposite of the dash
- Almost immediately tap A which will cancel the roll initiate a "special" pivot grab instead

What's so special about it you ask?

- Slides much less (if at all) than your usual pivot grab
- Noticeably larger grab range

You can tell you've done it because you'll hear her "roll noise", that's the biggest indicator that you've done it successfully.

But just how much more grab range does Zelda have with this? Well let's see.





As you can see, the increased range is no joke. It also has a rather noticeably high hitbox as shown here:



And here:



Note in these pictures below, Lucario is descending from a non fastfalled jump:




But what does this mean for Zelda?

There's probably a bunch of applications, but a big one would be being a pretty effective option for stuffing "wall of aerial" approaches (Jigglypuff/Kirby/Peach for example) due to the large range of the grab boxes. This is also personally one of my bigger annoyances to deal with, so it's nice to have something like this in those situations.

Feel free to add anything of use to this if you like! I hope it was informative and useful for you all!
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
I want all of these pictures... *drools* thanks for putting this out there. ^ ^ I may want to add this as a spot in the Fairy Fountain in the future.
 

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
Wow, this is just amazing! I thought I was seeing things when I first saw that gif in the social thread.
 

Erotic&Heretic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,676
Location
France


Just awesome. And that's easy to do too!

It seems to works too with characters like Robin and Palutena, but Zelda's range is totally crazy compared to those two!
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
Question: how's the roll canceled Dashgrab?
I suppose it's better than regular stand grabbing? Haha. I haven't used it that much to be honest.

So I played against a Ness today, and with some new found knowledge on Zelda's pivot grab, I gave it a bit of a whirl:

This one doesn't seem to roll canceled from what I can tell, but you can't argue with the results!


Ness' Fair is justtt about to hit me...


... but then Zelda's grab range denies it.


It looks like she grabs him so hard, he recoils behind her, haha (a funny characteristic of pivot grabs it seems)!

But now let's look at an actual Roll Cancel Pivot Grab:


If this doesn't convince you that her RC Pivot Grab is pretty great...


... I don't know what to tell you!


I really believe this is gonna be a big part of Zelda's metagame. The range and utility is just way too good for it to be ignored.

So get on practicing those pivot grabs folks!
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
15,985
Location
Australia
NNID
Aerodrome
I just want to mention that this doesn't seem to have a grab hitbox directly in front of Zelda
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
I just want to mention that this doesn't seem to have a grab hitbox directly in front of Zelda
I wonder why that is? Perhaps her grab box is so disjointed, it's actually like nudged over from where it's supposed to be? Lol~

EDIT: Are you sure? I tested it just now and it seems like there's a regular grab box infront of her as well. Did you like, run through the opponent and RC Pivot Grabbed the moment you hit the other side or something?
 
Last edited:

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
That's pretty ridonkulous when you red bubble it like that, hahaha.

The disjointed-ness...
 
Last edited:

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
15,985
Location
Australia
NNID
Aerodrome
EDIT: Are you sure? I tested it just now and it seems like there's a regular grab box infront of her as well. Did you like, run through the opponent and RC Pivot Grabbed the moment you hit the other side or something?
Yes, the hitbox starts about a Zelda character length away, her arms go through people and if they're skinny enough (Robin, ZSS, Zelda, Petch etc) they'll ignore it
 
Last edited:

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
Thank you Aerodrome for your thorough testing! That's definitely very important to know.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
15,985
Location
Australia
NNID
Aerodrome
Hmm, I can't seem to do it now, I'd say it's very precise, but the possibility is there

Edit: Eh, did it again, the range seems very inconsistant, it's weird
 
Last edited:

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
igloo
omg you can grab ness' fair??

urgh

this is a wonderful thing

What are your control setups to be able to do this consistently?
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
omg you can grab ness' fair??

urgh

this is a wonderful thing

What are your control setups to be able to do this consistently?
I just use the default controller setup to be honest!
 

Upke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
429
Location
Savannah, GA / Cary, NC
So I assume this is not a character specific technique, but the additional range that comes with it might change per character, and it's particularly big for Zelda? I'm about to check it out with a few others.
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
So I assume this is not a character specific technique, but the additional range that comes with it might change per character, and it's particularly big for Zelda? I'm about to check it out with a few others.
You are correct. This technique is not native to Zelda, but she has a lot of success with it for some reason.
 

Erotic&Heretic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,676
Location
France
Is it maybe because her grab already have range, for a non tether grab? It's seems to works pretty well with Robin too.
 

Upke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
429
Location
Savannah, GA / Cary, NC
Hmm, I'm still not sure what to think of this. I'm trying regular pivot grabs with the same spacing, and they too have large grab boxes, though you have to input them sooner because they slide farther. Not sure if we're getting extra range or if the roll canceling is just stopping our momentum. Hard to tell without a capture card.
 

Rion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
396
I think the fact that we don't slide is a huge thing in itself.

Sliding is probably why pivot grabs end up out of range in the first place, so it's still pretty darn useful!
 

CandyCakes

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
154
This takes her punish game a big step. She can do it out of shield which is great. I'm just happy that Sakurai is giving zelda love this game because in melee zelda was incomplete like some of her moves shared frames with each other and in brawl... They nerfed her, this game I think zelda has lots of potential
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
This takes her punish game a big step. She can do it out of shield which is great. I'm just happy that Sakurai is giving zelda love this game because in melee zelda was incomplete like some of her moves shared frames with each other and in brawl... They nerfed her, this game I think zelda has lots of potential
This technically isn't an out of shield option. You have to input a Dash first.
 

CandyCakes

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
154
This technically isn't an out of shield option. You have to input a Dash first.
Tru but when they're in ending lag U can dash then RC pivot grab since they'll try to run at U to approuch and I can see it having a role in combos
 

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
igloo
Okay this is legit to space with. It's so convenient.

Played a good jiggs and managed to grab a number of advancing fairs/bairs where they were forced to retreat a lot of aerials instead. The trick is to not get locked up in your shield but to run back and space that way, which sets the pivot grabs up nicely!!!!

The fact this grabs far out above her is a godsend because now she has some sort of diagonal anti air that she always had a blind spot against in previous games!!!

Also jab is more disjointed now... Seems to stuff a lot of aerials!
 

ZombieBran

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
Yeah, Jab is great now. Super fast and much better than Brawl's.

I was worried prerelease because it looked awful in videos but I guess that was just the players not taking advantage of it.
 

CandyCakes

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
154
Approuch with RC pivot grab is good since the range is like a tether grab
 

SmashXX

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
59
Location
California
I like this, the grab range is crazy and like everyone stated earlier it will be useful against characters that Zelda has a hard time approaching.
 

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
igloo
Hmmm... I do think it's still quite difficult to approach!, but with this you can seriously space the **** out of people. Like... Marth for example can no longer harass with aerials safely because you can space a pivot grab when he lands... all you really have to do with weave in and out of aerials and throw this out there to keep them in check. Same for jiggs/peach/ness/anyone who's gonna predominantly use aerials.

I bet you this was an oversight! The balancing team thought... "hmmm, let's make zelda's usmash 1 pixel in size", and accidentally transferred all the pixels it had in brawl to her grab!!!

Omg I even have a replay saved where lucina was right above my head, and I did the grab, and she wasn't even anywhere near the pivot grab's supposed hitbox and it still grabbed! MUAHAHA!
 

Yuniverse

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
26
Location
★★★
that brings a tear to my eye. and ah the brawl upsmash, may god rest it's soul. Its punishing scrubby options in heaven now!
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
You know what's kind of funny @ Kataefi Kataefi , I think since Marth's FAir has slightly worse range, Zelda's pivot grab may actually OUT RANGE his FAir, LOL. Needs confirmation though.

Also, random note, I tested her other grabs' ranges and etc, and it seems like ALL of her grabs may be made of only one bubble.

Also, fun way to test the P-grab range is: put DK on one side of a BF platform facing in, and the do a pivot grab at the other edge of the platform... Huehue.

Also, both of her other grabs appear to have much better inverted range. Not enough to hit BEHIND her, but enough to catch at pixel point blank.
 
Last edited:

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
So it looks like this grab is really shaping up to be one of her best tools. I would say that we're near unapproachable now, with Phantom, anti-air grab, and good range on our fsmash and ftilt.

Or I could just be hyped and not seeing things properly. :awesome:

If this gets patched, I'm going to cry.
 
Last edited:

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
If this gets patched, I'm going to cry.
Pfft, unless a lot of players make a big public fuss over this, (Which they won't.) I believe Nintendo will never even notice.

Besides, long range pivot grabs were an intentional function.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom