Zelda

[Erotic&Heretic]

I love the term "accidental transformation".

Of course, gameplay wise, it makes sense. But I imagine Zelda saying "damn, I transformed again..."

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I love the term "accidental transformation".

Of course, gameplay wise, it makes sense. But I imagine Zelda saying "damn, I transformed again..."

I've meant to do Farore's Wind but pushed the control stick down too quickly and accidentally transformed. I've used a Nayru's love than attempted a down smash, and than transformed.
It must be very frustrating for Zelda.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I've meant to do Farore's Wind but pushed the control stick down too quickly and accidentally transformed. I've used a Nayru's love than attempted a down smash, and than transformed.
It must be very frustrating for Zelda.

With great powers comes great responsibilities.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

With great powers comes great responsibilities.

To which I'm not very responsible.

 

[SolemnDIvide]

Project M is easily the best iteration of Zelda yet, isn't she top tier?
I'm pretty happy to see Zelda as her own character now but it does make me sad to know that my other part is now gone.
On the bright though, no more accidental transformations.

Yeah I'd say she's pretty top tier but that might be a bit of a biased comment on my part. I find her far too fun setting up fireballs and then lightning heeling others. ^-^

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah I'd say she's pretty top tier but that might be a bit of a biased comment on my part. I find her far too fun setting up fireballs and then lightning heeling others. ^-^

I've watched some footage of Zhime and I have to say she at the very least looks great. I love the idea of Din's being like mines or something, not only the fact that Nayru's now viable.

 

[SolemnDIvide]

I've watched some footage of Zhime and I have to say she at the very least looks great. I love the idea of Din's being like mines or something, not only the fact that Nayru's now viable.

Yeah it definitely made her character a lot more interesting as a whole. Unfortunately I don't think she'd work entirely the same way in SSB4 but I'm sure she is gonna be pretty fun regardless.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah it definitely made her character a lot more interesting as a whole. Unfortunately I don't think she'd work entirely the same way in SSB4 but I'm sure she is gonna be pretty fun regardless.

I actually like where Zelda is going but I think she's going to need a lot of work. Project M at the very least proves that she can be top tier if designed properly, but I'm kind of afraid that she's not going that way for SSB4. We'll have to see, with the phantom... who knows?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I actually like where Zelda is going but I think she's going to need a lot of work. Project M at the very least proves that she can be top tier if designed properly, but I'm kind of afraid that she's not going that way for SSB4. We'll have to see, with the phantom... who knows?

Speaking of Project M her sweet spot in her aerial kick is a B***** that things so powerful it's crazy.
I imagine that Zelda's Phantom will be a huge buff what with the ability to use it as offense and defense.
I have a strong feeling she's Mid tier at the very least probably high-mid tier just because of the options in that one move.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Speaking of Project M her sweet spot in her aerial kick is a B***** that things so powerful it's crazy.
I imagine that Zelda's Phantom will be a huge buff what with the ability to use it as offense and defense.
I have a strong feeling she's Mid tier at the very least probably high-mid tier just because of the options in that one move.

Turns out it helps having an entire extra move added to your move set, whudathunk?
She has some pretty good buffs, we just have to figure out what the hell is going on with Din's. Is it a buff or a nerf? Shorter range but stronger?

 

[Katy Parry]

Turns out it helps having an entire extra move added to your move set, whudathunk?
She has some pretty good buffs, we just have to figure out what the hell is going on with Din's. Is it a buff or a nerf? Shorter range but stronger?

Yeah I mean, come on. Phantom Slash is probably the best special we could ask for, especially for its utility.

She has an instant meat shield if she needs one, where Nayru's wouldn't work.
She has a better edgeguard option, rather than the predictable Din's. Since we decide when to release the Phantom, they won't be able to predict it as easily as Din's. With Din's, either we detonate it where they are or it'll go behind them anyway.

She also doesn't go into helpless after she uses this in the air. Instacasting might be good for stalling in the air/out prioritizing, and giving her a safe intercept option.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah I mean, come on. Phantom Slash is probably the best special we could ask for, especially for its utility.

She has an instant meat shield if she needs one, where Nayru's wouldn't work.
She has a better edgeguard option, rather than the predictable Din's. Since we decide when to release the Phantom, they won't be able to predict it as easily as Din's. With Din's, either we detonate it where they are or it'll go behind them anyway.

She also doesn't go into helpless after she uses this in the air. Instacasting might be good for stalling in the air/out prioritizing, and giving her a safe intercept option.

Phantom is looking to be really good. My only concern is the charge time, can she carry it around with her fully charged if she wants? I know some characters like Sheik with her needles can do that.
I've never understood why we go helpless after using Din's. Like what? Why? Why did that ever make sense to anybody? It's not a recovery. If you use in the air slows down your fall, sure, but I have used Din's to get back to the stage maybe once, when I really high up maybe and knew I could recover with it. But the person I was playing against didn't understand the basics of shielding so it's not like I would realistically try that again.
Speaking of Din's, what's going on with it? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it mediocre? I know the range has been decreased which isn't something that excites me and the explosion is acting weird, in priority at least. I've seen characters on the edge of the explosion not get hit where I could predictably hit them in Brawl. I've also heard of a sweet spot.

 

[Katy Parry]

Phantom is looking to be really good. My only concern is the charge time, can she carry it around with her fully charged if she wants? I know some characters like Sheik with her needles can do that.
I've never understood why we go helpless after using Din's. Like what? Why? Why did that ever make sense to anybody? It's not a recovery. If you use in the air slows down your fall, sure, but I have used Din's to get back to the stage maybe once, when I really high up maybe and knew I could recover with it. But the person I was playing against didn't understand the basics of shielding so it's not like I would realistically try that again.
Speaking of Din's, what's going on with it? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it mediocre? I know the range has been decreased which isn't something that excites me and the explosion is acting weird, in priority at least. I've seen characters on the edge of the explosion not get hit where I could predictably hit them in Brawl. I've also heard of a sweet spot.

Din's is better in terms of its another kill move in Zelda's arsenal. It looks like the focus is to rack up damage and kill with her specials, as they're very hard hitting.

I didn't try to pocket the phantom, I never even thought of that.

I still think Din's is a viable move. If you detonate it as they hit they ground, if they air dodge, its gonna hit because of the confirmed lag after airdodging into the ground. Throwing Phantom offstage and following up with Din's, even as a distraction is going to apply pressure. That's a good thing.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Din's is better in terms of its another kill move in Zelda's arsenal. It looks like the focus is to rack up damage and kill with her specials, as they're very hard hitting.

I didn't try to pocket the phantom, I never even thought of that.

I still think Din's is a viable move. If you detonate it as they hit they ground, if they air dodge, its gonna hit because of the confirmed lag after airdodging into the ground. Throwing Phantom offstage and following up with Din's, even as a distraction is going to apply pressure. That's a good thing.

She needs to be able to force an approach and apply pressure? So that's good.
Than there's Nayru's Love, I know Farore's Wind looks much better (and faster). From what I've seen of Nayru's Love, it's a good bit bigger and maybe lasts longer?

 

[Katy Parry]

She needs to be able to force an approach and apply pressure? So that's good.
Than there's Nayru's Love, I know Farore's Wind looks much better (and faster). From what I've seen of Nayru's Love, it's a good bit bigger and maybe lasts longer?

I don't think it lasts longer, it just seems to come out faster.

And yes, Zelda's playstyle is defensive, so she needs to force an approach. These new moves help her with that.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I don't think it lasts longer, it just seems to come out faster.

And yes, Zelda's playstyle is defensive, so she needs to force an approach. These new moves help her with that.

Thanks for answering all these questions, getting a straight answer from the debating forums across the Zelda boards is either no response or I get called a noob.
I honestly think Zelda's taken a turn for the better. Hopefully things will continue to develop in her favor.

 

[Katy Parry]

Thanks for answering all these questions, getting a straight answer from the debating forums across the Zelda boards is either no response or I get called a noob.
I honestly think Zelda's taken a turn for the better. Hopefully things will continue to develop in her favor.

This Zelda is defenitely better than Brawl Zelda.

The character advantages in this game seem more balanced.

And better yet, competitive tournaments will most likely recognize character customization as long as its a quick interface option.

For example, if you can choose your set of moves in the same manner you can make your name, which is on the character selection screen, and it doesn't interfere with other players, they will pretty much have no reason to not do this.

Mortal Kombat X is doing something like this as well. When you choose your character, you can choose 3 different versions of, let's say, Scorpion. So you have Scorpion A, B, or C.

Smash is a bit more extreme. Zelda is bound to have a good combination because:

4 special moves only x 3 variants of each special move = 12 special moves

12 special moves x 4 special moves at one time x only 3 variants per move = 3 x 3 x 3 x 3

Zelda has 81 special move combinations.

 

[ECHOnce]

And better yet, competitive tournaments will most likely recognize character customization as long as its a quick interface option.

For example, if you can choose your set of moves in the same manner you can make your name, which is on the character selection screen, and it doesn't interfere with other players, they will pretty much have no reason to not do this.

Mortal Kombat X is doing something like this as well. When you choose your character, you can choose 3 different versions of, let's say, Scorpion. So you have Scorpion A, B, or C.

Smash is a bit more extreme. Zelda is bound to have a good combination because:

4 special moves only x 3 variants of each special move = 12 special moves

12 special moves x 4 special moves at one time x only 3 variants per move = 3 x 3 x 3 x 3

Zelda has 81 special move combinations.

Not sure if I agree with this. As in...I'm all for character customization in tournaments, but I'm not sure how TOs and other player's would be open to the idea in competitive play.

In an ideal world, character customization would be quick, and take no longer than the short custom button inputs like in Brawl/PM. However, if a good chunk of participants were to use custom movesets at every TV+Wii U setup they went to, then it'd be incredibly time consuming. A few extra minutes before each match may not seem like much, but tack them on to every other game in the tourney, and you're bound to go past ending time set for the event by potentially as much as an hour (a TO's worst nightmare; it looks terrible on their part, and the blame falls on them for lacking better organization). They'd have to choose to either cut down on the bracket size limit, or not allow it altogether.

Further, there would be an added need to inform your opponent of which custom moves you chose, if you arrived at the setup station before they did. And...it seems sort of pathetic, but adding any degree of a need to simply trust other players opens the possibility of cheating (lying about chosen moves). It may not be super frequent, but there'll surely be complaints and arguments in every few tournies between players, in a similar manner to how paused games have to be dealt with. Nobody really comes out exactly happy from situations like that >> aha

Customization is definitely a good thing, though. Some custom moves we've seen in PotDs and vids seem pretty darn OP, but after some BR testing, and maybe some involvement in more lenient tournaments, I hope the community will be open to accepting at least some of the custom moves - it would be a great means of balancing the game for what seem to be lower/mid-tier characters in the early meta. Characters that struggle with a less efficient moveset may be allowed to pick a better version of their move to compensate for the weakness and become more viable - like a Brawl Zelda getting a faster Din to force approaches more easily - whereas characters that may have moves generally viewed as overpowered could have some of their regular specials banned, and replaced with weaker ones - like a Brawl MK having some of his moves replaced, rather than banned outright.

I doubt the tournaments will universally accept customization, unless characters are made hugely nonviable like in Brawl by a select few characters, but for the few that do, I'm hoping that something like this is what comes into play as official rules. It'd give us Zelda's something to hope for, just in case things don't turn out super well C:

 

[TimeSmash]

Stuff about custom movesets

You should really visit the custom moveset thread too. I want them in, but it would be a huge hurdle. We'll definitely see a lot of interesting stuff happening when tournaments start.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

How does Mortal Kombat tournaments approach costimzation... if at all?
And does anyone know what the interface would like?
I think it would great if you picked your character than had another menu pop up where you can pick your moves. That why if you know what build you want than you can just go "click, click, click"... ta-da, customized Zelda. Somehow I don't feel like that would be the case.

 

[Katy Parry]

Not sure if I agree with this. As in...I'm all for character customization in tournaments, but I'm not sure how TOs and other player's would be open to the idea in competitive play.

In an ideal world, character customization would be quick, and take no longer than the short custom button inputs like in Brawl/PM. However, if a good chunk of participants were to use custom movesets at every TV+Wii U setup they went to, then it'd be incredibly time consuming. A few extra minutes before each match may not seem like much

Okay I stopped reading there.

As I stated, the customization for characters' moveset would take place just like names ON the character selection screen. If it worked that way, tournaments wouldn't increase by too much time to worry about. I'm a TO for Indianapolis myself and this wouldn't affect us in the slightest, and we usually house 50 people every Sunday. For events like EVO, I'm sure they would adjust their time accordingly.

But think about it. You chose your character, and click name, and a menu pops up over your character's individual slot, and looks like this

Specials:
< [B. Naryu's Trailer] >
< [> B Din's Fire] >
< [^ B Farore's Wind] >
< [V B Phantom Slash] >
OK?

You would highlight each one individually and move it left and right to move to the next variation.

Once you have what combination you want, you simply hit "OK?"

It's extremely simple and wouldn't slow ANYONE down.

 

[Katy Parry]

How does Mortal Kombat tournaments approach costimzation... if at all?
And does anyone know what the interface would like?
I think it would great if you picked your character than had another menu pop up where you can pick your moves. That why if you know what build you want than you can just go "click, click, click"... ta-da, customized Zelda. Somehow I don't feel like that would be the case.

Why wouldn't it be the case? Think about it. They're advertising this feature, and you have friends come over, why would it slow down on the fun? You're able to input names, choose your character, and select different costumes for them, why wouldn't you be able to select their moves?

That being said, there will probably be a separate menu where you can test your character moves, like how you test your controls, but it will most likely be in the CSS as well.

And I just told you about Mortal Kombat. It's just something they have to accept. It's more so apart of the game.

 

[ECHOnce]

Okay I stopped reading there.

As I stated, the customization for characters' moveset would take place just like names ON the character selection screen. If it worked that way, tournaments wouldn't increase by too much time to worry about. I'm a TO for Indianapolis myself and this wouldn't affect us in the slightest, and we usually house 50 people every Sunday. For events like EVO, I'm sure they would adjust their time accordingly.

But think about it. You chose your character, and click name, and a menu pops up over your character's individual slot, and looks like this

Specials:
< [B. Naryu's Trailer] >
< [> B Din's Fire] >
< [^ B Farore's Wind] >
< [V B Phantom Slash] >
OK?

You would highlight each one individually and move it left and right to move to the next variation.

Once you have what combination you want, you simply hit "OK?"

It's extremely simple and wouldn't slow ANYONE down.

I...apologize? For whatever reason, I was under the impression that it would involve a separate menu; I must have skipped over the part where you suggested it would work well if on the character selection screen. I'd agree with you on that, if that were to be the case. The next paragraph of my post was building on that argument further, but excepting that, the rest of the post was on other issues. Sorry for misreading, I guess. No need to emphasize every few words in such a condescending manner.

 

[Katy Parry]

I...apologize? For whatever reason, I was under the impression that it would involve a separate menu; I must have skipped over the part where you suggested it would work well if on the character selection screen. I'd agree with you on that, if that were to be the case. The next paragraph of my post was building on that argument further, but excepting that, the rest of the post was on other issues. Sorry for misreading, I guess. No need to emphasize every few words in such a condescending manner.

I wasn't being condescending in the slightest. I just put further emphasis when my point is not understood cleary.

But I'm glad you understand, now.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I'd say Zelda is looking to be a significant amount better overall.
Her ftilt and utilt seemed to come out very quickly this time around, and of course Farore's has been buffed beyond recognition. Nayru's looks more reliable and safer to use and abuse, and while I'm not sure about Din's there's not too much to lose there regardless.

The universal buff to multi-hit moves also bodes extremely well for her, since she's got four powerful multihit moves that were simply too easy to get out of before. Also, not sure if it's just me, but she looks like she got faster as well. Obviously the game itself is faster, but I mean relatively. Could be wrong on that one, though.

 

[ZombieBran]

PM Zelda is very good. I wouldn't call her top tier but she is certainly on the top half of the power curve. High tier, perhaps.

Smash 4 Zelda looks better than Brawl Zelda but I think Dins' needs some work. The detonation hitbox needs to be larger. It doesn't even match the animation, whereas in Brawl it extended beyond the animation.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

PM Zelda is very good. I wouldn't call her top tier but she is certainly on the top half of the power curve. High tier, perhaps.

Smash 4 Zelda looks better than Brawl Zelda but I think Dins' needs some work. The detonation hitbox needs to be larger. It doesn't even match the animation, whereas in Brawl it extended beyond the animation.

It extended WAY beyond the animation.
I can reliably hit two characters, far far apart by centering Din's between them. It's crazy, if I want to play mind games I can detonate it before it actually hits them and they'll still get burned. The size of the move in brawl was insane, if it was any faster or had higher knock back I think it could have been OP.
Just in my humble little opinion.
Here's hoping they fix that though, I like my over sized hit box move.

 

[.Shìkì]

Okay I stopped reading there.

As I stated, the customization for characters' moveset would take place just like names ON the character selection screen. If it worked that way, tournaments wouldn't increase by too much time to worry about. I'm a TO for Indianapolis myself and this wouldn't affect us in the slightest, and we usually house 50 people every Sunday. For events like EVO, I'm sure they would adjust their time accordingly.

But think about it. You chose your character, and click name, and a menu pops up over your character's individual slot, and looks like this

Specials:
< [B. Naryu's Trailer] >
< [> B Din's Fire] >
< [^ B Farore's Wind] >
< [V B Phantom Slash] >
OK?

You would highlight each one individually and move it left and right to move to the next variation.

Once you have what combination you want, you simply hit "OK?"

It's extremely simple and wouldn't slow ANYONE down.

As Mario Kart did sth. like this with the bikes/carts that's actually pretty likely

 

[ZombieBran]

It extended WAY beyond the animation.
I can reliably hit two characters, far far apart by centering Din's between them. It's crazy, if I want to play mind games I can detonate it before it actually hits them and they'll still get burned. The size of the move in brawl was insane, if it was any faster or had higher knock back I think it could have been OP.
Just in my humble little opinion.
Here's hoping they fix that though, I like my over sized hit box move.

Brawl Dins' Fire certainly was a very potent move in FFAs and teams.
Brawl Zelda in general, even.

From what I've seen, the new DF is actually smaller than Brawl's despite the graphic effects. Which goes against what that fateful PotD claimed, so I hope it's just a beta thing.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Bringing up Mortal Kombat X makes me hype! So excited for that game.

Unfortunately the PS4 is an expensive thing.

 

[Katy Parry]

Bringing up Mortal Kombat X makes me hype! So excited for that game.

Unfortunately the PS4 is an expensive thing.

IKR. ugh. I work at GameStop and I constantly see it advertised. I hate it because I want it so badly. And I don't nearly have enough money for it yet.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

From what we've seen at SDCC, nothing new but to reaffirm...
* FW is a really powerful kill move. Killed Fox at 43%. He was close to the edge of the screen tho.
* FW is fast, maybe even fastest teleport in the game (?)
* Din's has a really reduced hitbox. Some blasts seemed literally in the players face and whiffed.
* Phantom continues to get ignored. Still very little insight into him.
* Dash attacks looked buff to me or at least more combo-able than Brawl's.
* Magma Beatdown seems to launch higher than Brawl's down throw.
* Down Smash hitbox looked different, more disjointed with a slightly bigger range, but could be mistaken.

Over all, while we got a lot of Zelda play, most didn't really seem to know how to use her. Lots of Din Fire spam. And train looks like a horrible level for Zelda (as all moving stages are).

 

[SolemnDIvide]

From what we've seen at SDCC, nothing new but to reaffirm...
* FW is a really powerful kill move. Killed Fox at 43%. He was close to the edge of the screen tho.
* FW is fast, maybe even fastest teleport in the game (?)
* Din's has a really reduced hitbox. Some blasts seemed literally in the players face and whiffed.
* Phantom continues to get ignored. Still very little insight into him.
* Dash attacks looked buff to me or at least more combo-able than Brawl's.
* Magma Beatdown seems to launch higher than Brawl's down throw.
* Down Smash hitbox looked different, more disjointed with a slightly bigger range, but could be mistaken.

Over all, while we got a lot of Zelda play, most didn't really seem to know how to use her. Lots of Din Fire spam. And train looks like a horrible level for Zelda (as all moving stages are).

Well regardless thanks for the re-conformation on things as you've seen them. Like most things about SSB4 we'll just have to wait till it comes out so we can get the full lowdown.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

From what we've seen at SDCC, nothing new but to reaffirm...
* FW is a really powerful kill move. Killed Fox at 43%. He was close to the edge of the screen tho.
* FW is fast, maybe even fastest teleport in the game (?)
* Din's has a really reduced hitbox. Some blasts seemed literally in the players face and whiffed.
* Phantom continues to get ignored. Still very little insight into him.
* Dash attacks looked buff to me or at least more combo-able than Brawl's.
* Magma Beatdown seems to launch higher than Brawl's down throw.
* Down Smash hitbox looked different, more disjointed with a slightly bigger range, but could be mistaken.

Over all, while we got a lot of Zelda play, most didn't really seem to know how to use her. Lots of Din Fire spam. And train looks like a horrible level for Zelda (as all moving stages are).

Sounds good to me, I'm liking the buffs to FW, just thinking about all the new mind game potential makes me happy.

 

[SolemnDIvide]

Sounds good to me, I'm liking the buffs to FW, just thinking about all the new mind game potential makes me happy.

Yeah I really fell in love with the set ups you could pull with FW & DF, especially in Project M. Seeing how these stack up in SSB4 is going to be pretty interesting to say the least.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah I really fell in love with the set ups you could pull with FW & DF, especially in Project M. Seeing how these stack up in SSB4 is going to be pretty interesting to say the least.

From what I've seen Zelda's playing a bit closer, particularly given the nerf to Din's range and the fact that the phantom is only a little shorter. That mean she has two specials that are mid-range, one short range and one that's long range (FW?). I think that mid-range is fairly comfortable for her, she can't play long and she's not happy up close and aggressive. Maybe Sakurai does know what he's doing.
Just in my humble opinion.

 

[ECHOnce]

): Looks like we're stuck not being able to move much horizontally out of teleport again...

 

[Katty Shepherd]

): Looks like we're stuck not being able to move much horizontally out of teleport again...

Well also keep in mind that I don't think the player was very good, for one thing she completely missed the ledge. Yeah, I'm not guilt of that.
I wouldn't assume a lot just now.
Is it really important to move horizontally out of teleport? Just to ask.
EDiT:
Does anyone know how Zelda placed at the SDCC 3DS tournament?

 

[PrimalCarnage]

I don't think any passed into the finals. I think all the Zelda players were knocked out in the first few rounds.

 

[.Shìkì]

I don't think any passed into the finals. I think all the Zelda players were knocked out in the first few rounds.

Actually i didn't even SEE a Zelda-player...Maybe one that was knocked out by a Bowser. Almost noone even gave her a try.