Zelda

[PrimalCarnage]

Actually i didn't even SEE a Zelda-player...Maybe one that was knocked out by a Bowser. Almost noone even gave her a try.

iirc there were a couple in the beginning. They just didn't know how to use her. Lots of din fire on a moving platform...

 

[Novice_Brave]

By the by, I'm really hoping for some footage that shows a possible buff to f/bairs - mostly making it easier to sweetspot as it was in Melee. Even if it still only sweetspots on one frame with the tiny hitbox, I hope they at least buff the damage of the sourspot back to around the ~10% in Melee, as opposed to ~4-5% in Brawl

 

[Katty Shepherd]

iirc there were a couple in the beginning. They just didn't know how to use her. Lots of din fire on a moving platform...

Well that sucks. Do we at least have some new footage to enjoy?

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Well that sucks. Do we at least have some new footage to enjoy?

It's in the "HD 60FS FPS Zelda Match: Direct Feed Usmash Pulls People In" thread, in the twitch tv link (sorry can't post links yet). The first couple of matches start at 1:14:00

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Haha, I had like five threads open a moment ago and I nearly had a heart attack when I though I had posted something in the wrong thread. I didn't but I think my heart skipped a beat.

It's in the "HD 60FS FPS Zelda Match: Direct Feed Usmash Pulls People In" thread, in the twitch tv link (sorry can't post links yet). The first couple of matches start at 1:14:00

Will check it out, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the phantom wasn't used much?

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Yea pretty much ziltch phantom. I couldnt force myself to watch the whole thing, saw maybe 3/4ths, so I mightve missed something tho.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention - her new air dodge looks much better than Brawl airdodge! A quick pose in the air like most of them, rather than the sluggish spin. Fun stuff, that.

 

[ECHOnce]

Well also keep in mind that I don't think the player was very good, for one thing she completely missed the ledge. Yeah, I'm not guilt of that.
I wouldn't assume a lot just now.
Is it really important to move horizontally out of teleport? Just to ask.
EDiT:
Does anyone know how Zelda placed at the SDCC 3DS tournament?

Yeah, he wasn't very good, but the way Zelda fell straight down and then started moving horizontally afterwards is reminiscent of Brawl, plus no matter how bad he is, I doubt his reaction time is that slow aha.

But yes, it is a pretty big problem because it really limits her recovery options. It means that if you want to teleport directly upwards to grab the ledge, you must be almost directly below it if you're not going to sweetspot it. If you're even slightly too far to the side (maybe a Zelda arm's length width away or less), teleporting straight up and reappearing above the ledge means death, since the magnet snap to the ledge mechanic doesn't kick in (only happens for sweetspots) and you can't move horizontally at all. If you want to move horizontally after tele and live, you have to reappear so that Zelda is at least above standing level of Battlefield's first platform level, which leaves you vulnerable to edgeguards. That can be completely avoided by teleporting from directly under the ledge or slightly further in below the stage (only if the underside of the ledge is curved/slanted like in Smashville), but in a lot of situations Zelda will be too far down to get there in time. That means that if Zelda doesn't have a midair jump, there's a huge zone around the ledge where she is essentially dead no matter what. A few spots let her teleport isin the slight diagonal directions, but it's pretty hard to consistently get those, and often have her reappear partially above the ledge (= she eats an F-smash or D-tilt) or just below the ledge (= doesn't grab it).

 

[Novice_Brave]

Yeah, he wasn't very good, but the way Zelda fell straight down and then started moving horizontally afterwards is reminiscent of Brawl, plus no matter how bad he is, I doubt his reaction time is that slow aha.

But yes, it is a pretty big problem because it really limits her recovery options. It means that if you want to teleport directly upwards to grab the ledge, you must be almost directly below it if you're not going to sweetspot it. If you're even slightly too far to the side (maybe a Zelda arm's length width away or less), teleporting straight up and reappearing above the ledge means death, since the magnet snap to the ledge mechanic doesn't kick in (only happens for sweetspots) and you can't move horizontally at all. If you want to move horizontally after tele and live, you have to reappear so that Zelda is at least above standing level of Battlefield's first platform level, which leaves you vulnerable to edgeguards. That can be completely avoided by teleporting from directly under the ledge or slightly further in below the stage (only if the underside of the ledge is curved/slanted like in Smashville), but in a lot of situations Zelda will be too far down to get there in time. That means that if Zelda doesn't have a midair jump, there's a huge zone around the ledge where she is essentially dead no matter what. A few spots let her teleport isin the slight diagonal directions, but it's pretty hard to consistently get those, and often have her reappear partially above the ledge (= she eats an F-smash or D-tilt) or just below the ledge (= doesn't grab it).

Yeah, Farore's has never been the most reliable recovery in terms of making it safely to a ledge without fear of edgeguarding/missing it completely. It does look better this time around, especially since I believe it can autosnap on the way up now, but it's still probably going to have its own set of problems just by effect of it being... itself.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah, he wasn't very good, but the way Zelda fell straight down and then started moving horizontally afterwards is reminiscent of Brawl, plus no matter how bad he is, I doubt his reaction time is that slow aha.

But yes, it is a pretty big problem because it really limits her recovery options. It means that if you want to teleport directly upwards to grab the ledge, you must be almost directly below it if you're not going to sweetspot it. If you're even slightly too far to the side (maybe a Zelda arm's length width away or less), teleporting straight up and reappearing above the ledge means death, since the magnet snap to the ledge mechanic doesn't kick in (only happens for sweetspots) and you can't move horizontally at all. If you want to move horizontally after tele and live, you have to reappear so that Zelda is at least above standing level of Battlefield's first platform level, which leaves you vulnerable to edgeguards. That can be completely avoided by teleporting from directly under the ledge or slightly further in below the stage (only if the underside of the ledge is curved/slanted like in Smashville), but in a lot of situations Zelda will be too far down to get there in time. That means that if Zelda doesn't have a midair jump, there's a huge zone around the ledge where she is essentially dead no matter what. A few spots let her teleport isin the slight diagonal directions, but it's pretty hard to consistently get those, and often have her reappear partially above the ledge (= she eats an F-smash or D-tilt) or just below the ledge (= doesn't grab it).

Zelda has a very precise recovery. If you don't screw it up, it's wonderful. If you do screw it up... well, you're screwed. All freaking Pit has to do is fly, I literally don't think it's possibly to not recover as Pit, I will not believe until I see it.

 

[.Shìkì]

Zelda has a very precise recovery. If you don't screw it up, it's wonderful. If you do screw it up... well, you're screwed. All freaking Pit has to do is fly, I literally don't think it's possibly to not recover as Pit, I will not believe until I see it.

His new recovery isn't "permanent" flight anymore, but it is close to being just as powerful.

 

[ZombieBran]

Aww, they still haven't implemented something like her PM recovery?
The ability to auto-sweet spot the ledge is a goddess-send. Not to mention how you can move immediately after teleporting in the air, should something go wrong.

That would've been my first step for buffing FW. The kill move properties are nice, but making it a good recovery should come first.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Aww, they still haven't implemented something like her PM recovery?
The ability to auto-sweet spot the ledge is a goddess-send. Not to mention how you can move immediately after teleporting in the air, should something go wrong.

That would've been my first step for buffing FW. The kill move properties are nice, but making it a good recovery should come first.

On the bright side we have a fast, unpredictable and long ranged kill move. We'll just have to figure out the recovery bit ourselves.

 

[ECHOnce]

Zelda has a very precise recovery. If you don't screw it up, it's wonderful. If you do screw it up... well, you're screwed.

Aww, they still haven't implemented something like her PM recovery?
The ability to auto-sweet spot the ledge is a goddess-send. Not to mention how you can move immediately after teleporting in the air, should something go wrong.

That would've been my first step for buffing FW. The kill move properties are nice, but making it a good recovery should come first.

Of course she has good recovery if you're precise. But let's face it, no one can master it so well that they've never missed it. And even if you miss it once or twice, you still died because the recovery has limiters. Even if you do get the angle right, there's the pretty high likelihood of appearing just above or below the edge. It can be used effectively, but it has far too many weaknesses for a recovery to be considered "okay" in comparison to the rest of the casts'. Not asking for automatic recoveries, but at least one that doesn't create more problems for the player than really necessary.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Of course she has good recovery if you're precise. But let's face it, no one can master it so well that they've never missed it. And even if you miss it once or twice, you still died because the recovery has limiters. Even if you do get the angle right, there's the pretty high likelihood of appearing just above or below the edge. It can be used effectively, but it has far too many weaknesses for a recovery to be considered "okay" in comparison to the rest of the casts'. Not asking for automatic recoveries, but at least one that doesn't create more problems for the player than really necessary.

If it autosnaps now going directly up, then I think that is a HUGE addition to its overall viability. One of the main issues is going straight up, overshooting the ledge, then taking a smash to the face while you fall down to the ledge. If it snaps to the ledge on the way up instead of shooting past it, then that's one big issue down.

Do we have any confirmation one way or the other? I've heard people say it does, but I haven't looked for any specific examples myself.

 

[ECHOnce]

If it autosnaps now going directly up, then I think that is a HUGE addition to its overall viability. One of the main issues is going straight up, overshooting the ledge, then taking a smash to the face while you fall down to the ledge. If it snaps to the ledge on the way up instead of shooting past it, then that's one big issue down.

Do we have any confirmation one way or the other? I've heard people say it does, but I haven't looked for any specific examples myself.

I'll watch through some footage later today probably, but I haven't noticed any auto-snapping out of <not-full-length> teleports so far. Sort of doubt it's there, but of it is, that'd mean some big money for us. Still doesn't completely solve our lack of horizontal momentum after teleport though :/

 

[Novice_Brave]

I'll watch through some footage later today probably, but I haven't noticed any auto-snapping out of <not-full-length> teleports so far. Sort of doubt it's there, but of it is, that'd mean some big money for us. Still doesn't completely solve our lack of horizontal momentum after teleport though :/

If it is there, that will be pretty huge for us. The lack of horizontal movement out of teleport is still an issue, but I think almost every recovery has its share of issues, and if that ends up being our biggest issue for FW this time around we're still in pretty good shape overall. Still gotta be better than Little Mac

 

[Toadallstar2]

If it autosnaps now going directly up, then I think that is a HUGE addition to its overall viability. One of the main issues is going straight up, overshooting the ledge, then taking a smash to the face while you fall down to the ledge. If it snaps to the ledge on the way up instead of shooting past it, then that's one big issue down.

Do we have any confirmation one way or the other? I've heard people say it does, but I haven't looked for any specific examples myself.

I'm a little lost, are you asking if we're right below the ledge (let's say battlefield or w/e it's called) and we use FW, it'll auto-connect?
Because yes. I've seen it happen numerous times where someone went straight UP and it connected when in Brawl it would have went way above the ledge.
Also I'm not 100% but I think at times when Zelda used FW at an angle... It connected very easily then too. When in Brawl she may have popped over the ledge and had a terrible end-lag coming down on stage. I think this has been fixed. Unless of course we're WAY over the ledge, then we're screwed, but that's expected.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I'm a little lost, are you asking if we're right below the ledge (let's say battlefield or w/e it's called) and we use FW, it'll auto-connect?
Because yes. I've seen it happen numerous times where someone went straight UP and it connected when in Brawl it would have went way above the ledge.
Also I'm not 100% but I think at times when Zelda used FW at an angle... It connected very easily then too. When in Brawl she may have popped over the ledge and had a terrible end-lag coming down on stage. I think this has been fixed. Unless of course we're WAY over the ledge, then we're screwed, but that's expected.

Yeah, I'm asking if we teleport straight up from right below the ledge, will it auto-connect? Like how in Brawl, if we teleport straight up and pass right over the edge we won't grab it but rather continue up and appear above it, and have to fall down to its level to grab it.

In Smash4, doing that same thing will result in her grabbing the ledge on her way up, before the teleport goes its full distance? If so, that's VERY nice!

Sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm having a stupid hard time being clear about this xD;

 

[Toadallstar2]

yepp we're on the same page, connects automatic, very fast. It's perfect really, I couldn't ask for better. And we can't die from it, because you can't hog the ledge.

 

[BJN39]

I couldn't keep up with these posts, but FW definitely LOOKS easier to use/ledge connect. Faster disappear, and the large, auto-snapping hit-box during the invisible period seem to help.

Unfortunately, I discovered that the unfortunate "Wall hugging disease" where you FW while touching a wall, and keep holding up, and then go nowhere, still exists. Apparently they can't fix em' all...

Also, in that one Zelda vs Fox video, I think I noticed that the player playing Zelda was 'testing' the FW reappear lag, and it looked pretty laggy, like Brawl's, disappointingly...

Although I still LOVE dat high power reappear hit-box, which is actually 2 hit-boxes. the one that hit fox in that video and KO'ed at 40ish with the slightly stronger 12% hit-box. It appears to be a sweetspot of sorts. There's a very slightly weaker but larger than Brawl's hit-box that does 10%.

Honestly, Zelda's changes are a "love/hate" relationship.

Faster Ftilt but worse angle.

Faster Utilt with a combo angle but very weak.

Lost transformation, but really cool looking new "tool".

FW faster start and stronger reappear, but some necessary changes are still missing. FW though is a lot more love than hate though, obviously.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I couldn't keep up with these posts, but FW definitely LOOKS easier to use/ledge connect. Faster disappear, and the large, auto-snapping hit-box during the invisible period seem to help.

Unfortunately, I discovered that the unfortunate "Wall hugging disease" where you FW while touching a wall, and keep holding up, and then go nowhere, still exists. Apparently they can't fix em' all...

Also, in that one Zelda vs Fox video, I think I noticed that the player playing Zelda was 'testing' the FW reappear lag, and it looked pretty laggy, like Brawl's, disappointingly...

Although I still LOVE dat high power reappear hit-box, which is actually 2 hit-boxes. the one that hit fox in that video and KO'ed at 40ish with the slightly stronger 12% hit-box. It appears to be a sweetspot of sorts. There's a very slightly weaker but larger than Brawl's hit-box that does 10%.

Honestly, Zelda's changes are a "love/hate" relationship.

Faster Ftilt but worse angle.

Faster Utilt with a combo angle but very weak.

Lost transformation, but really cool looking new "tool".

FW faster start and stronger reappear, but some necessary changes are still missing. FW though is a lot more love than hate though, obviously.

I think a lot of - or at least some of - the "hate" is actually really more her "love" being made to work more fluidly. As in, the "love" she's gotten has resulted in her gaining a new playstyle, and them toning down aspects such as her knockback and damage on the moves that have gotten love in the form of becoming faster and more reliable is them allowing the new playstyle to work cohesively. If the moves were faster, but she still had a ton of knockback on all of them, that would defeat the purpose of giving her faster moves with which to combo, since she'd still just knock people out of it before she could get in more than a couple of hits. Them toning some of these things down isn't so much to nerf her as to allow her to fit fluidly into a new style and give her buffs more purpose, I think. The only move that I think has received ONLY "hate" with no upside or reason is Din's, which is unfortunate, since she would definitely like to be able to camp with projectiles and force an approach... but maybe Phantom can end up helping with that now, or Din's could get buffed before the final product.

Even if it doesn't, I still think she's in a much better place than Brawl and Melee, overall - even the system is in her favor this time around, with how it handles multihit moves. I don't think I need her to be top tier - I just want her to get out of the very, very bottom - and I think she's on track to make that happen, unless everyone around her gets buffed just as much or more as well. I'd still play her if she was, but I'd be really happy for her if she were to escape from that city.

 

[Meru.]

By the by, I'm really hoping for some footage that shows a possible buff to f/bairs - mostly making it easier to sweetspot as it was in Melee. Even if it still only sweetspots on one frame with the tiny hitbox, I hope they at least buff the damage of the sourspot back to around the ~10% in Melee, as opposed to ~4-5% in Brawl

She also still freezes for a long time when her kicks sweetspot on shield which sucks since she's extremely punishable. Aren't you supposed to be rewarded for a landing a sweetspot?

It is still too early to judge but so far I frankly think Zelda isn't looking very good at all as she still seems very similar to her Brawl version. We'll see in three weeks I guess. Multihit moves hitting better is nice though.

 

[Zero Suit Dominic]

I know they improved Din's Fire, but is there any other buffs to Zelda that we know of yet?

 

[Novice_Brave]

I know they improved Din's Fire, but is there any other buffs to Zelda that we know of yet?

Hi @ Zero Suit Dominic ! Welcome to Smashboards!

It's probably easiest to redirect you over to the thread "Compendium of all known Zelda buffs/nerfs/changes" in the Zelda forum. If you need any help finding it just ask and I'll private message it to you. Mostly, her moves have been altered to be faster/work better with the game's system, but that thread in particular goes more in depth.

Always glad to see another Zelda fan.

 

[Zero Suit Dominic]

@ Novice_Brave Thank you for kindness. ;_; Ever since Melee, I've loved playing as her. I'm hoping for the best.

 

[「 Derk 」]

Info from the demo in Japan:

• "Zelda has no alternate costumes, only colors. PLEASE NOTE EVERYONE. When it comes to skins and costumes it's difficult for me to remember all 8 costumes for even one character since I can't sit at the station and text. If I mention a skin or color, it's because I saw it and remember it, it doesn't mean that's all there is." -Zipzo
• Zelda has a white color. We only know 6/8 colors so maybe a chance for a costume still?
  
• Phantom Slash does not hit a character right next to Zelda. The phantom spawns maybe a character away, so if your opponent is right up on you, the phantom will just spawn in front of them and whiff. This sounds pretty nifty for doubles. You can shoot a phantom from behind your teammate to guard them or to allow them to follow up with a move behind the phantom. I think this will be a great move to create openings and set up combos for your partner.
• Her fair and bair are both kicks with sweet spots that hit for 18-20% with huge knock back if you nail it. Low landing lag. 4-6% otherwise. Good to have confirmation that she still has her toes of destruction in the final build!

Not Zelda related but still effects her:

• Ledge Snapping was gimped and works similar to Melee now. We have to be more precise with Farore's Wind to hit the ledge.
  
• Can cancel run with shield. Hoping this is faster than it was in brawl.
  
• Fast Falling is much quicker now and has a sparkle animation when used. Good news for Zelda since there was not a big difference in her regular fall and fast fall in brawl.
• Shields break a lot easier this time. Still want to shield those lightning kicks?
  
• "I don't notice anything particularly terrible about landing lag. Seems like people are just over exaggerating." -Zipzo

Confirmed out:

• Dash dancing (Possible, but it is the same as brawl)
  
• Wave dashing

Special thanks to Zipzo for all the info coming from the demo. Most of the information was already known from past demos but it is good to have confirmation they remained in the final build.

 

[Zero Suit Dominic]

Info from the demo in Japan:

• Zelda has no alternate costumes, only colors. so maybe a chance for a costume still?
• l thanks to Zipzo for all the info coming from the demo.

I'm really hoping for a Skyward Sword costume, but I highly doubt we will get one.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

I'm highly scared Zelda will get worse, and that doesn't seem to be the case, but I don't know. Zelda has been my mains since Melee. Zipzo described her as a glass Canon, which I'm okay with xP I don't want her to be amazing, but maybe somewhat mid low tier or just somewhere in the middle. Apparently Din's fire got worse? I'll have to look at that I guess xC

 

[<π]

Just dropping by to let it be know that I'll be in here working on getting this lady as good as she can be (and also to sub)

 

[.Shìkì]

I'm highly scared Zelda will get worse, and that doesn't seem to be the case, but I don't know. Zelda has been my mains since Melee. Zipzo described her as a glass Canon, which I'm okay with xP I don't want her to be amazing, but maybe somewhat mid low tier or just somewhere in the middle. Apparently Din's fire got worse? I'll have to look at that I guess xC

Well... If her standard specials suck, there is still custom moves right? As long as tilts/smashes are good (and hopefully people falling out of smashes is fixed by now, i think i heard Zipzo or one of his friends say soemthing aloing the lines of "sucking people in" and DI isn't as strong as in earlier games too), it should be fine. I mean, they cannot possibly have screwed up every single variant of the specials? :/

 

[<π]

I'm actually not that worried about Dins this game. I hear sheild strength got hit really bad. I don't think people can just sit in their shield any more and beat your dins. I'm hoping they gave din't transcendence so people can't throw out a hit box and tie with dins.

I hope nayru's got a buff too. I want the hit box and the invulnerability to overlap this time

 

[Pokedude1013]

Since the guy who posted the information didn't even know what fierce diety link was (he said link with red under his eyes and a dark costume) i am holding out hope that "white Zelda" is Hylia Zelda

 

[Toadallstar2]

I'm actually not that worried about Dins this game. I hear sheild strength got hit really bad. I don't think people can just sit in their shield any more and beat your dins. I'm hoping they gave din't transcendence so people can't throw out a hit box and tie with dins.

I hope nayru's got a buff too. I want the hit box and the invulnerability to overlap this time

Yeah, I noticed this too with shields.
No idea on frames obviously but Nayrus looked and worked SO much better in the demo. It's one of her biggest buffs imo.

Since the guy who posted the information didn't even know what fierce diety link was (he said link with red under his eyes and a dark costume) i am holding out hope that "white Zelda" is Hylia Zelda

That would be nice!
Welcome to the forum, and the Zelda section.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Since the guy who posted the information didn't even know what fierce diety link was (he said link with red under his eyes and a dark costume) i am holding out hope that "white Zelda" is Hylia Zelda

I'm assuming white Zelda is the gray hair and black dress Zelda we got in brawl. The alternate is making a return, but I don't know if he mentioned both that and "white Zelda"

 

[ZombieBran]

I'm hoping they gave din't transcendence so people can't throw out a hit box and tie with dins.

The e3/demo build had Din's clanking with tilts again, sadly. We can only hope they changed that and many other things about Din's.

 

[.Shìkì]

I'm assuming white Zelda is the gray hair and black dress Zelda we got in brawl. The alternate is making a return, but I don't know if he mentioned both that and "white Zelda"

He did mention a Zelda with white hair and black dress apart from white Zelda, but i assume its gonna be zelda with a white/gold dress or something, sadly. Don't lose hope yet though.

 

[ZombieBran]

He did mention a Zelda with white hair and black dress apart from white Zelda, but i assume its gonna be zelda with a white/gold dress or something, sadly. Don't lose hope yet though.

We've already seen it in a screenshot.
D3RK is using it as his avatar/sig, actually.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

He did mention a Zelda with white hair and black dress apart from white Zelda, but i assume its gonna be zelda with a white/gold dress or something, sadly. Don't lose hope yet though.

We've already seen it in a screenshot.
D3RK is using it as his avatar/sig, actually.

Are we getting a Hilda recolor?

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Are we getting a Hilda recolor?

White Zelda could be 2 things. 1. Blonde Zelda white dress 2. A new alternate. I'm hoping for some new alternates for Zelda....