Zelda Social Thread

[PrinceAlias]

Hello guys, I am Alias. I've been a long time lurker of these here Zelda threads and would really appreciate it if I was allowed into the fabled Skype chat. I would really like to improve my gameplay with the one true Princess of Hyrule. Also I'm not weird, scouts honor.....Ok I'm a little weird, but I have a firm handshake :D

 

[ECHOnce]

Hello guys, I am Alias. I've been a long time lurker of these here Zelda threads and would really appreciate it if I was allowed into the fabled Skype chat. I would really like to improve my gameplay with the one true Princess of Hyrule. Also I'm not weird, scouts honor.....Ok I'm a little weird, but I have a firm handshake :D

Hey Prince, thanks for introducing yourself to the
Zelda Boards :D In addition to the Skype group, we also have a Zelda social group message here on SmashBoards (not this one; it's a private group). I'd invite you to them myself, but I'm on my phone on a work break right now lol... @ WhiteLightnin or other peeps, do your stufff

 

[Kaeldiar]

Hello guys, I am Alias. I've been a long time lurker of these here Zelda threads and would really appreciate it if I was allowed into the fabled Skype chat. I would really like to improve my gameplay with the one true Princess of Hyrule. Also I'm not weird, scouts honor.....Ok I'm a little weird, but I have a firm handshake :D

Sure thing! Just add me "eleven.oclockish" on Skype, and I'll put you in the Skype group.

 

[Lil Puddin]

If only...Nayru's for Diamond Diving etc. would be so much more effective with even a little armor throughout it's duration >> it's so punishable aha

The funny thing is, like a smart phone, Naryu's Love is good at a lot of things except for the job it was made to do. They may well ditch Naryu's reflective attributes and replace it with some sort of armor.

 

[shapular]

How do you use Zelda's tilts/jab? What throw combos does she have?

The funny thing is, like a smart phone, Naryu's Love is good at a lot of things except for the job it was made to do. They may well ditch Naryu's reflective attributes and replace it with some sort of armor.

That would actually make sense. That's what it does in OoT. I like the reflector though. I don't know about PM, but it seemed like in Brawl projectiles were Zelda's bane since she couldn't approach. It's always nice to have the option.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Hey Prince, thanks for introducing yourself to the
Zelda Boards :D In addition to the Skype group, we also have a Zelda social group message here on SmashBoards (not this one; it's a private group). I'd invite you to them myself, but I'm on my phone on a work break right now lol... @ WhiteLightnin or other peeps, do your stufff

Unfortunately the private group has reached maximum capacity and it won't let me add anymore people. However, there's no limit to the skype group as far as I know.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

The funny thing is, like a smart phone, Naryu's Love is good at a lot of things except for the job it was made to do. They may well ditch Naryu's reflective attributes and replace it with some sort of armor.

I could see why you might say that. The added properties such as the land cancel actually make the reflective attritube much more usable. The fact that you can reflect projectiles without a lot of end lag is a crucial component at competitive levels of play. Being able to attack at the same time is also important. In a sense, it gives her some similar capabilities to the spacies reflectors as they can quickly reflect something and immediately attack back with a wavedash. The current build of Nayru's is invaluable against projectile spammers such as Fox, Falco, Wolf, Mario, Link, etc. What all of the additional attributes have actually accomplished is to make the reflector usable in competitive play.

 

[TimeSmash]

I think that we should start a changelog of Zelda when 3.5 comes out!!

 

[BJN39]

^ Yeah, but it would be morbid to see all the bad they did, and why try when the PMBR releases a changelist a little while after each release? < I speak form experience on that, as I was making one around 2.6's release, only to have be a waste of time. :/

 

[Comet7]

okay, noob question alert. I almost never play anybody who uses zelda, but then some guy who doesn't even play zelda destroyed me by spamming up b. how can I stop her from doing that?

edit: thank you @ Kaeldiar , that's exactly what i wanted to know.

 

[Kaeldiar]

okay, noob question alert. I almost never play anybody who uses zelda, but then some guy who doesn't even play zelda destroyed me by spamming up b. how can I stop her from doing that?

How exactly is he spamming it? Teledashing around like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p1nUpjAZv0#t=1m33s

If that's the problem, then you need to close space better, or make more effective use of Falco's lasers (assuming you're maining Falco because of the icon). As Falco, you should be ALL over Zelda. If you let her teledash all over the place, you're going to get out-maneuvered. There's a lot of start-up lag on that move, so you should be able to hit her before she teleports. Just rush in and don't give him any space to breathe. Do Falco things

 

[Kaeldiar]

Congratulations to our very own @ WhiteLightnin for placing first in his tournament yesterday (which also happened to be on his Birthday)! I HIGHLY recommend watching his matches (which begin around 53 minutes in), because he makes very effective use of Zelda's tools, and we could all learn from it!
http://www.twitch.tv/nmism/b/573013479

 

[4tlas]

Hi guys, I'm Atlas, a Sheilda main. I've been following these boards for awhile (about a year?) and I made an account to respond to all of the Sheilda stuff that seems to have gone down recently. Thought I should say hi!

 

[Kaeldiar]

Hi guys, I'm Atlas, a Sheilda main. I've been following these boards for awhile (about a year?) and I made an account to respond to all of the Sheilda stuff that seems to have gone down recently. Thought I should say hi!

Welcome aboard! We'd love to hear whatever feedback you have and answer any questions!

 

[4tlas]

Welcome aboard! We'd love to hear whatever feedback you have and answer any questions!

Thanks! I have heard that there is a private chat somewhere, and I was interested in joining. The Zelda boards are much more exciting than the Sheik boards. Most of the stuff on there is about "Y Sheik no meleh", but the Zelda forums are more about cool new stuff.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Thanks! I have heard that there is a private chat somewhere, and I was interested in joining. The Zelda boards are much more exciting than the Sheik boards. Most of the stuff on there is about "Y Sheik no meleh", but the Zelda forums are more about cool new stuff.

Yes welcome! We do have a skype group, and I would be happy to add you. Just check your messages.

 

[Arcalyth]

Shoutouts to Rizner for the $2. Thanks bro, play you again any time

 

[Captain Zack]

Hi I'm Captain Zack. I am one of the best Zeldas in Louisiana.(there are actually zeldas here)

 

[Kaeldiar]

Hey Captain Zack! Welcome to the Social!

 

[WhiteLightnin]

:0 Do my eyes deceive me or has the famous Captain Zack Sparrow really graced us with his presence? Welcome to the Zeldas!

 

[Captain Zack]

Why thank you. I actually got my name from Olimar. Made it like in 2008 after I got the game. Captain Olimar + Zack = Captain Zack. I have a couple videos from both games if you would like to see them.

 

[Grime.]

Hey guys! I was recently apart of my friends youtube series "Why do I suck?" Where he records our sets and we discuss what happened and what we could do better. Take a look and the rest of the channel!
(Project M) "Why Do I Suck?" Grime's Zelda: http://youtu.be/gCxd2xXwzCM
(Yes he uploaded the famous Wombo Combo)

 

[WhiteLightnin]

ZELDA NEWS CONCERNING 3.5 BELOW!
Hey everyone! Sorry I haven't been too active on here recently but I wanted to give you an update on things. As I'm sure you are all aware, 3.5 for PM is dropping sometime tomorrow. The skype group had a meeting tonight in regards to setting up a playtest time for 3.5 Zelda as well as other related info. We want to make this as much of a Zelda community effort as possible. I know some of you don't have the ability to use skype to join in so we came up with a solution.

Tomorrow (11/14/14) @ 7pm EST we are going to have a twitch channel going that will be showing some testing of 3.5 Zelda. There will be a skype call in the background so you'll be able to hear all of us, and the chat box will allow you to communicate with us to help with the testing. I will post the twitch channel tomorrow and update you here if 3.5 is not out yet by our scheduled time (or if none of us have been able to download it lol). See you tomorrow!

 

[Kaeldiar]

ZELDA NEWS CONCERNING 3.5 BELOW!
Hey everyone! Sorry I haven't been too active on here recently but I wanted to give you an update on things. As I'm sure you are all aware, 3.5 for PM is dropping sometime tomorrow. The skype group had a meeting tonight in regards to setting up a playtest time for 3.5 Zelda as well as other related info. We want to make this as much of a Zelda community effort as possible. I know some of you don't have the ability to use skype to join in so we came up with a solution.

Tomorrow (11/14/14) @ 7pm EST we are going to have a twitch channel going that will be showing some testing of 3.5 Zelda. There will be a skype call in the background so you'll be able to hear all of us, and the chat box will allow you to communicate with us to help with the testing. I will post the twitch channel tomorrow and update you here if 3.5 is not out yet by our scheduled time (or if none of us have been able to download it lol). See you tomorrow!

I won't be on until a little bit later, but I'm SO IN! I'll have a friend or two playing with me, so I'll have someone who can test DI, reactions, and all that!

 

[4tlas]

I would love to, but I already have plans. I plan on testing things out before that though, so I can add to the written list of stuff later on if you guys miss anything! Have fun!

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Alright Zeldas 3.5 has not been released yet but here is the stream for twitch http://www.twitch.tv/just2goode Adjustments for the stream are underway right now and there are Zeldas already talking on skype so come and hang out with us.

 

[ZombieBran]

I think everyone saw it coming. No more omnipresent Din's.

I don't dislike the new one. I wish it didn't curve seemingly randomly but I can get used to it. It's still super fast and lingers so automatically better than any official Smash iteration. Plus the return command brings vibes of SCV's Viola. Not as effective since the trajectory often goes right into the stage but still fun.

 

[Tweedle]

Welp, Sorry to say it but... I hate the new Dins. Honestly Brawls and Smash 4's Dins is more useful to me than this. Even just 1 of the last project M dins would be fine by me. It doesn't seem useful to me, I'm sure some people might find a use but I can't imagine being able to myself.

Also accidentally pressing B when teleporting and falling to death is hilarity.

 

[ZombieBran]

Smash 4 Din's is slow and often outranged. It's channeled and has huge endlag. Brawl's is similar except at least it can reach further. Both wouldn't be so bad in this game where we don't have infinite air dodges, granted.

3.5 Din's is awkward, yes, but it lingers which alone makes it fun for me. I've been playing with it a bit and while it's certainly worse than previous PM Din's, it's not bad. I'm not sure how useful it will prove but I really like that you can repeatedly detonate it.

 

[Tweedle]

Smash 4 Din's is slow and often outranged. It's channeled and has huge endlag. Brawl's is similar except at least it can reach further. Both wouldn't be so bad in this game where we don't have infinite air dodges, granted.

3.5 Din's is awkward, yes, but it lingers which alone makes it fun for me. I've been playing with it a bit and while it's certainly worse than previous PM Din's, it's not bad. I'm not sure how useful it will prove but I really like that you can repeatedly detonate it.

To me a single floating Din which 1. Detonates in 3 seconds or 2. Can be detonated multiple times and lasts awhile but stays in the same position or 3. Stays for awhile and can be detonated would all be better. And I agree that smash 4 and 3 Dins are too slow for this game, I just meant that if they had a project M version that just blows up and doesn't float (Faster and bigger blast? because Project M style) it would be better than this.

 

[Arcalyth]

3.5 teledash is really dumb. Why did they change it?

New teledash takes away a lot of platform movement options =/ trying to stay unbiased and get used to it but I really don't see why it needed to be changed...

Oh, and now we can't waveland behind people or reappear and waveland back. Huge, unnecessary teleport nerf, I hope someone can open my eyes to possibilities that I'm missing or at least give a good reason for why it was changed. I can get behind everything else even if i don't fully understand the new dins fire yet lol

 

[Tweedle]

3.5 teledash is really dumb. Why did they change it?

New teledash takes away a lot of platform movement options =/ trying to stay unbiased and get used to it but I really don't see why it needed to be changed...

Oh, and now we can't waveland behind people or reappear and waveland back. Huge, unnecessary teleport nerf, I hope someone can open my eyes to possibilities that I'm missing or at least give a good reason for why it was changed. I can get behind everything else even if i don't fully understand the new dins fire yet lol

I feel the same about not wanting to be bias, but who knows Zelda better than Zelda players? This really is a huge nerf, and a weird one. The reason it's a nerf is because they decided to be all different with dins, when there was no reason, just nerf what is already there or have a buffed brawl dins. And I don't understand why they changed the teleportation. I'm super confused tbh.lol

 

[Zerudahime]

Dont get me started....
Because I wont stop.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Alright everyone since 3.5 came out later than expected we are going to reschedule the twitch Zelda community gathering for discussion of 3.5 until a later date. Stay tuned for the date and time.

 

[Hebi]

She's definitely not as strong as before but i'll go ahead and bring up points i like and points i dont.

General:
+She feels faster
+Her wavedash is better I feel
+OoT Zelda is cute
+still have upsmash chains on heavies even if upsmash is easier to DI out of
+/- she's definitely more combo oriented for damage
-Her killing power doesn't seem like it's there, but LK can still get the job done...on that note
-RIP SUPER SWEETSPOT, YOU WILL BE MISSED DEARLY OLD FRIEND
-She feels laggier on a lot of moves in general.

I still haven't played a lot with Nayrus:
+I like that comes out faster in the air
-Losing intangibility in air huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurts
? something in general just feels off about it on the ground.

Farores:
=The pseudo-teledash isn't bad, but it isn't quite the same
+Canceling in the air allows for a more deceptive recovery game imo
+Ledge cancel antics are pretty fun and easy to do with the new cancel
+Auto Snap works
+You don't get stuck on walls anymore
-If you cancel too early in the air going to ground, my god the recovery
+But if you do it on time, it's actually alright.
-

Dins:
+Generally funny strings can occur with a well positioned dins. (i.e. I've gotten Fsmash dins hit, dins return hit, Fsmash)
+The gimping ability is nice along with
+Because the dins are actually slower at the end, there is a level of precision for gimps and general placement.
+I think there is huge potential for having a din circle around you if you can maintain it (ala UMvC's Strider Ouroboros)
+If you have a din returning to you when you know you're going to get hit, it can act as a combo breaker.
-It's way more difficult to use (i think that's okay though)
-1.
-The din will actually travel through the stage. That's pretty ****ty. I wish it would trace the stage instead.

Testing normals now.

 

[ECHOnce]

lmao wrong thread.

Spoiler: Original Post

For those of you who don't understand or don't have the time to break down what anything from the changelist means for us, I simplified it a bit via sorting things by how they were changed. afaik, Zelda has - by far - the most changes out of the roster, so it's important to look at the trends in changes in her moveset, rather than changes for individual moves, at least for normals.

Spoiler: Normals

NOTE: Green/Red bullets are simply to denote increases/decreases in values, and are not meant to imply whether the change is considered a buff/nerf; excepting the hitlag and SDI multipliers, which are reversed (I'm all sure we can agree with those being buffs/nerfs lol). Blue bullets denote either a change that includes both increased and decreased values, or a change in value that can't technically be considered an increase/decrease.

DAMAGE:
• U-Tilt (12->15 on early hit, 11->13 on late hit)
• D-Tilt (Damage 7/8 -> 10/11)
• U-Smash (Removed extra linking hit previously added to 2nd attack wave, which increased damage. Now 16 -> 15 damage)
• F-Air (Sweetspot damage 18(initial hit frame)/16(remaining hit window) -> 19/16)
• B-Air (Sweetspot damage 17/15 -> 18/15)
• Grab Pummel (Damage decreased from 4->3, but slightly faster)
• F-Throw (Damage decreased from 12->10)
• U-Throw (Damage decreased from 9-8)
• D-Throw (Damage decreased from 15-14)

ANGLE: (HIGHER/LOWER)
• Jab (Angle 55->361. 361 basically = 45 in Smash, for those who don't know)
• Dash Attack (Angle 78->88)
• F-Tilt (Tip angle 108->110 to match other upwards hitboxes)
• U-tilt (Late hit angle 92->85, begins when arm is around 1 o'clock position instead of behind)
• U-Air (Electric flub hitbox angle 85->75)
• U-Smash (Angle 90-88)
• F-Throw (Release point is closer and lower to combo better)

BASE KNOCKBACK:
• F-Tilt (Tip angle 108->110...BKB/KBG adjusted)
• U-Smash (BKB reduced slightly)
• U-Air (BKB 64-60)
• F-Throw (Release point is closer...to combo better. BKB 68 ->60)
• U-Throw (Damage decreased from 9-8, KB values compensated)
• D-Throw (Damage decreased from 15->14, KB values compensated)

KNOCKBACK GROWTH:
• F-Tilt (Tip angle 108->110...BKB/KBG adjusted)
• U-Tilt (Damage 12->15 on early hit, 11->13 on late hit, KBG compensated)
• D-Tilt (Damage 7/8 -> 10/11, KBG compensated)
• U-Smash (BKB reduced slightly, KBG increased to compensate)
• U-Air (KBG 75-100)
• F-Throw (Damage decreased from 12->10, KBG compensated)
• U-Throw (Damage decreased from 9-8, KB values compensated)
• D-Throw (Damage decreased from 15-14, KB values compensated)

WEIGHT DEPENDENT SET KNOCKBACK:
• N-Air (Landing hitbox vs grounded opponents WDSK 54-40 to induce a less erratic hitstun animation)

HITBOXES: (BIGGER/SMALLER) (ADDITION/REMOVAL)
• Jab (hitbox size slightly decreased on last hit)
• Dash Attack (Travels across a slightly larger area while the strong hit is out)
• D-Tilt (Simplified hitboxes to maintain same usage, but have less hitbox commands)
• U-Smash (Removed extra linking hit previously added to 2nd attack wave, which increased damage)
• D-Smash (Removed pointless fully overlapped hitbox on foot, front hit terminates one frame earlier to not connect on opponents behind you and preventing the stronger back hit from hitting, or sometimes double hitting)
• F-Air (Super sweetspot removed...Overlapping flub hitbox on leg moved to cover hip)
• B-Air (Super sweetspot removed...Overlapping flub hitbox on leg moved to cover hip)
• Standing Grab (Grabboxes cleaned up)
• Turn Grab (Hitboxes cleaned up)

FRAMES: (SHORTER/LONGER STARTUP+ENDLAG) (LONGER/SHORTER ACTIVE DURATION)
• Dash Attack (Late hit terminates 1 frame earlier when her arms are no longer in front)
• F-Tilt (Hitbox terminates one frame earlier to trim excessive lingering)
• U-Smash (Endlag reduced by 1 frame, to match Melee IASA)
• D-Smash (front hit terminates one frame earlier to not connect on opponents behind you and preventing the stronger back hit from hitting, or sometimes double hitting)
• Standing Grab (Grabs on Frame 8 from 9. Active for 2 frame from 3)
• Turn Grab (Grab duration reduced from 3->2 to match other turn grabs)
• Grab Pummel (Damage decreased from 4->3, but slightly faster)
• F-Throw (Endlag uses added IASA and less drastic FSM to look more natural)
• U-Throw (Releases a frame faster)

HITLAG MULTIPLIER: (DECREASE/INCREASE) (REMOVAL/ADDITION)
• F-Tilt (Hitlag/SDI modifiers now 1.0x)
• F-Smash (Hitlag multipliers 0x -> 0.7x)
• U-Air (Hitlag multiplier on early hitbox 0.6 -> 1.0)
• U-Taunt (Hitlag multiplier...0.25x -> 1.0x)
• S-Taunt (Hitlag multiplier...0.5x->1.0x)

SDI MULTIPLIERS: (DECREASE/INCREASE) (REMOVAL/ADDITION)
• Jab (SDI multiplier on final hit now 1.0x)
• F-Tilt (Hitlag/SDI modifiers now 1.0x)
• F-Smash (SDI multipliers 0x -> 0.25x)
• U-Smash (SDI multipliers (0.15, 0.2, 0.25) -> 0.25x)
• N-Air (SDI multipliers on outer hits 0.4x -> 0.5x)

(I'll edit in stuff for Specials and Movement in a sec; just posting in case I screw up and lose all of this >>)

 

[Kaeldiar]

1. Could we get this thread stickied?

2. Played Junebug's Ganon in a local weekly yesterday. I brought him down to 1 stock in both games. I'm uploading the video to youtube as soon as I get the chance, and I'll post it to the Video Thread. Didn't get the chance to be too fancy with my Din's, but they helped. Missed a few conversions that I should've made. Telecanceling as recovery worked SO GREAT! I wish I had more practice with them to land them more consistently.

 

[4tlas]

So what progress are people making with using the new Dins?

I haven't been able to find any real uses for it yet, as every time it hits someone it feels a lot more like they just didn't pay attention rather than I tricked them into it. Whenever people are playing seriously, I just can't use this thing.

I like the new telecancel (since I never could teledash before), but it is just a bit too restrictive as a teledash right now. Magus said its a bug, so hopefully that gets fixed. I still need to get used to snapping onto platforms, but I've gotten good at appearing right before the ledge. Sometimes she doesn't grab the ledge out of teleshort though she is in normal grab range, though. Anybody else having this problem, where it feels like her grab range is shorter when teleshorting?

Did we ever get that twitch party going?

 

[ECHOnce]

So what progress are people making with using the new Dins?

I haven't been able to find any real uses for it yet, as every time it hits someone it feels a lot more like they just didn't pay attention rather than I tricked them into it. Whenever people are playing seriously, I just can't use this thing.

I like the new telecancel (since I never could teledash before), but it is just a bit too restrictive as a teledash right now. Magus said its a bug, so hopefully that gets fixed. I still need to get used to snapping onto platforms, but I've gotten good at appearing right before the ledge. Sometimes she doesn't grab the ledge out of teleshort though she is in normal grab range, though. Anybody else having this problem, where it feels like her grab range is shorter when teleshorting?

Did we ever get that twitch party going?

Haven't tested it yet, but if you want you can try the teleshort in debug mode with the ledge-grab box thingy.

L + R + D-Taunt
Y + R-Taunt

I think lol. I'm pretty sure it's the same, but maybe the sweet spot time runs out before she can fall to grab ledge.

Also...yeah ditto on my feelings/experiences using Dins. Only time I consistently get them is for mini mini combos which lead to missed follow ups (lol) and edgeguards

 

[Arcalyth]

I find that using side-b to stall the big dins makes it a lot easier to score hits with the return hit. I got a really sick detonate>kick>recall>kick last night

I wish we had slightly more control over the immediate return path (just slightly more linear) and i think this new zelda is kickass.