Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[BJN39]

I already said I don't know how much has changed, buffed or nerfed about Zelda's moveset as a whole. Do you? Because all I'm hearing is talk of the past as if Ultimate Zelda's normals are completely unchanged from 4, when that just isn't true. Jab multihits, is faster and can freaking KO at high percents, nobody has seriously labbed lightning kicks to see how hard/easy they are to land now, combos haven't been explored...

To maxy’s credit I think he has actually played the demo iirc. Didn’t we post a vid of ha playing it?

On top of that we cannot ignore the fact that SSB4 assets were used as a base while Sakurai developed this game, and if we as Zelda’s can only point out like, Jab LKs and Phantom as changes (outside of angle nerfs on Dtilt and Dthrow possibly) then we have a pretty good guess in assuming the rest of her S4 moveset was copied over as a base. I’m not saying we are already right, but it’s a pretty safe assumption (outside of microchanges to match new game mechanics), ESPECIALLY when you take into account how other characters appear massively carried over from ssb4 as well.

If we were coming from Brawl or even Melee, then players would have every right to expect those assets to have been used as a template.

 

[Scamper52596]

I'm just happy they switched up the way the Phantom works at all. Any tweaks they could do to it would probably give it more utility. It was okay, but never that great of a move. Now there's new potential to discover with the Phantom. Hope the developers continue to tweak it and some of Zelda's other moves through balance patches.

 

[Freelance Spy]

1. You DO have to worry about Zelda charging because she gets a free approach. If someone shields the phantom she can grab them. If they roll she gets a dash attack punish. The fact phantom can't be destroyed from the front means you have to get behind it which is what Zelda wants, she's making you approach. Being storable would make the move broken.



2. Oh yeah, you CAN move while using phantom using b turns in neutral. I'll post a gif. She retains all momentum now with all her specials for yeah, she can drift and cast the move.

3. Megamans fsmash doesn't tank hits for for him, nor does it wait and let him move before it comes out fully charged

4. If they stage out of range from phantom Zelda has dins fire to force an approach and punish it. That's what a zoning character is. It's like Ivy in Soul Calibur.

I respect your opinion I disagree wholeheartedly. I know I'm excited about the move, but to say it will again be the worst move in the game just sounds like you haven't looked at the move enough. I think you'll change your mind once we have the game in our hands

Friend, if you think phantom gives a free approach you are sorely mistaken. There are no free approaches in smash except brawl mk vs brawl Zelda. Even in that abysmal situation you can actually get a hit in.

Just because it will allow you to get a grab if someone is stuck in shield doesn't make that option free. Even though you can travel with it doesn't mean it is the best option. Lloyd rocket can travel with villager but you don't often see him net a grab off of tossing those around. And Billy doesn't have to FULLY CHARGE the rocket to play that game.

Since phantom behaves like every other projectile, people can deal with it the same way.

At the end of the day, it's a projectile that becomes more predictable the longer it is held down.

Using momentum is not the same as charging and running away to charge again. One of these things forces an approach, the other does not. That's what I meant by movement really, sorry for the confusion.

They buffed a terrible move to what I can only describe as average at best, and . And this improvement is on the literal worst character across all the games. Even if you are right by the time the game comes out and phantom slash is a good move, then it's still attached to Zelda. The character who would benefit least from the idea, as the rest of her moveset doesn't actually complement zoning, defensive play, or anything really.
I'm so glad you have any optimism left for Zelda. She deserves it. But she never had her core issues fixed, and will likely never get the opportunity.

The last point you are using, as a closing argument, is a suggestion to use Din's fire. I used to think that you were credible.

DM me for further conversation as I'm sure the boards are probably fed up with our repetition at this point.

 

[Katy Parry]

Friend, if you think phantom gives a free approach you are sorely mistaken. There are no free approaches in smash except brawl mk vs brawl Zelda. Even in that abysmal situation you can actually get a hit in.

Just because it will allow you to get a grab if someone is stuck in shield doesn't make that option free. Even though you can travel with it doesn't mean it is the best option. Lloyd rocket can travel with villager but you don't often see him net a grab off of tossing those around. And Billy doesn't have to FULLY CHARGE the rocket to play that game.

Since phantom behaves like every other projectile, people can deal with it the same way.

At the end of the day, it's a projectile that becomes more predictable the longer it is held down.

Using momentum is not the same as charging and running away to charge again. One of these things forces an approach, the other does not. That's what I meant by movement really, sorry for the confusion.

They buffed a terrible move to what I can only describe as average at best, and . And this improvement is on the literal worst character across all the games. Even if you are right by the time the game comes out and phantom slash is a good move, then it's still attached to Zelda. The character who would benefit least from the idea, as the rest of her moveset doesn't actually complement zoning, defensive play, or anything really.
I'm so glad you have any optimism left for Zelda. She deserves it. But she never had her core issues fixed, and will likely never get the opportunity.

The last point you are using, as a closing argument, is a suggestion to use Din's fire. I used to think that you were credible.

DM me for further conversation as I'm sure the boards are probably fed up with our repetition at this point.

I'm not DMing for further conversation, the conversation is here, it's a social board, we can talk about pretty much everything right here.

First off, I understand Zelda is a character that never has received too much effort in her development. I understand that.

For you to say I've "lost credibility" because I'm theorycrafting about a game that hasn't been released is kind of.... I'm one to talk, sure, but that's just..lol. Then telling me to DM you afterwards feels like a snub. Not saying it is, but that's how I read it.

But You do realize Lloyd is a small projectile that travels a set distance and also acts the same way every time it's used. So it's highly predictable and it's really only good for pressuring at best. You're right, it's not a move that he himself can capitalize on.

PS Plus is designed to directly be a move that covers an approach if it's delayed.

If it's not delayed, it's a frame 10 wall shield "counter" that is useful for calling someone out at close range, because it attacks after a block. What other projectile does this?. It's not meant to be storable because of that concept, IMO.

If someone runs up and shields when you're already charging, you win the trade. If they drop shield first, you release Phantom and it's going to block a counter attack or hit them if they're too slow, or push them away from you completely if they hold shield.

The idea here is that you're going to have to come for Zelda unless you're just gonna let her charge Phantoms for free and "stay out of range"..it's hard to punish the move when used from a distance. That let's Zelda force an approach which is something she's lacked for too long. She had to come to them and get wrecked due to frame data. Now she's got a tool along with another tool that can help force an approach.

You're basically saying a lot of her options are bad, but this is where skill comes into play. The better player can usually exploit things about their character in the way they use their moveset or in the way they don't. In Smash 4 she has no movement options to safely approach even if she wanted to.

Throwing out stage 2,3,4,5 seem pretty good situational gap closers if you ask me.

We don't even know how much shield damage this thing can do.


But the fact Zelda has IASA frames after the phantom comes out means she follows up faster, too.

 

[Zede]

The idea here is that you're going to have to come for Zelda unless you're just gonna let her charge Phantoms for free and "stay out of range"..it's hard to punish the move when used from a distance.

That's exactly what they can do - they can just wait it out. They don't have to come for Zelda. For a projectile to be effective in making the opponent approach, the projectile has to be continuous and inflict instant damage. Bayo's bullets travel more than half a stage. Samus, LInk, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, Cloud, all can safely sit at a considerable distance and spam projectiles. Olimar can just throw pikmin at you all day. And it forces you to approach because if you don't, then you just accrue damage. And mind you, these are all instant projectiles. That's not the case with the phantom. The phantom doesn't travel a huge distance, Zelda is unable to move while charging it, and unable to produce another one until the first one is gone. You can spam phantoms all you want, but your opponent can safely stay on the other side of the stage with virtually no damage to them at all. They don't have to approach you. For this to be viable, Zelda would have to be within striking distance, which means she's the one that has to approach first. And we all know how great she is at that, lol.

I can see the new Phantom being very useful for pressure, especially when edge-guarding, but not in the way that you're suggesting.

They should really make Din's fire a la Samus' missiles ,where she's able to cast multiple Dins that travel a set distance and explode after a while or on contact. Now THAT would force the opponent to approach.

 

[DNeon]

That's exactly what they can do - they can just wait it out. They don't have to come for Zelda. For a projectile to be effective in making the opponent approach, the projectile has to be continuous and inflict instant damage. Bayo's bullets travel more than half a stage. Samus, LInk, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, Cloud, all can safely sit at a considerable distance and spam projectiles. Olimar can just throw pikmin at you all day. And it forces you to approach because if you don't, then you just accrue damage. And mind you, these are all instant projectiles. That's not the case with the phantom. The phantom doesn't travel a huge distance, Zelda is unable to move while charging it, and unable to produce another one until the first one is gone. You can spam phantoms all you want, but your opponent can safely stay on the other side of the stage with virtually no damage to them at all. They don't have to approach you. For this to be viable, Zelda would have to be within striking distance, which means she's the one that has to approach first. And we all know how great she is at that, lol.

I can see the new Phantom being very useful for pressure, especially when edge-guarding, but not in the way that you're suggesting.

To piggy back off this:

If someone runs up and shields when you're already charging, you win the trade. If they drop shield first, you release Phantom and it's going to block a counter attack or hit them if they're too slow, or push them away from you completely if they hold shield.

This right here is literally exactly why people will never care to approach Zelda while charging her Phantom, it's just a dumb thing to do. So Instead they will:

1. shield if it doesn't have massive shield pressure
2. jump (to which it has already been covered in this thread that Zelda has ridiculously ****ty anti-air tools)
3. or just stay out of range

To which you say the countermeasure is:

4. If they stage out of range from phantom Zelda has dins fire to force an approach and punish it.

Use a move that not once in the history of Smash has managed to force people to approach thanks to the principles mentioned above...

EDIT:

They should really make Din's fire a la Samus' missiles ,where she's able to cast multiple Dins that travel a set distance and explode after a while or on contact. Now THAT would force the opponent to approach.

IMO Dins Fire, as bad as it is, is still a fun and unique move that I don't want to lose out on (especially when it does seem to have some potential off stage utility this game), when instead they could make Phantom weaker but let it store charge.

 

[Zede]

EDIT:

IMO Dins Fire, as bad as it is, is still a fun and unique move that I don't want to lose out on (especially when it does seem to have some potential off stage utility this game), when instead they could make Phantom weaker but let it store charge.

IDK, maybe. If Din's fire is going to stay the way it is, then it better have the end lag considerably reduced, which it does seem to be the case in SSBU, but I still think it could still be much better. The Phantom should be either storable, or it should be a one-input thing. Where Zelda presses and releases downB, the Phantom starts to charge the way it does, stalls, and launches; but Zelda is able to move right away. That would also force the opponent to approach more as it leaves Zelda free to run amok and could lead to some awesome setups.

One of my favorite things to do in Sm4sh to 'force' an opponent to approach was to cast a Phantom or Dins and release it right away. Knowing what horrible end lag Zelda has for both moves the opponent would either rush or jump at me thinking I'm committing to the move, but wouldn't be expecting me to release it right away. In which case they'd either run into it, or I'd be able to punish their landing. Even then I wasn't really forcing an approach as much as I was tricking them into it. But this kinda thing was extremely circumstantial, and the result would greatly depend on my timing and how speedy the other character was. Not to mention that again, they could just wait it out, lol.
SSBU might make this type of setup a bit more effective.

 

[DNeon]

Where Zelda presses and releases downB, the Phantom starts to charge the way it does, stalls, and launches; but Zelda is able to move right away. That would also force the opponent to approach more as it leaves Zelda free to run amok and could lead to some awesome setups.

I do also love this idea.

 

[evmaxy54]

To maxy’s credit I think he has actually played the demo iirc. Didn’t we post a vid of ha playing it?

Ye

I hate the Switch controller

Zelda is underwhelming as **** ROFL

Dins Fire full stage has forever done and will forever continuing to do, the precise figure of **** all ROFL

The more I think about her the more that I'm done with bargain bin Tr4.5h. We all know that blonde weave is fake anyways

 

[Freelance Spy]

The more I think about her the more that I'm done with bargain bin Tr4.5h. We all know that blonde weave is fake anyways

Hey, we all know that she's going to suck, but how dare you insult her wonderful hair? I had to wait more than a decade to see her blonde again.

I'm curious about what frame phantom gets it's first hitbox *in front of* Zelda now. The kick looks pretty slow. If I had to guess, I'd imagine it isn't very good.

I want our fair to be a sexkick so bad, but I guess it's really time to resign ourselves to the trash.

 

[evmaxy54]

Hey, we all know that she's going to suck, but how dare you insult her wonderful hair? I had to wait more than a decade to see her blonde again.

I'm curious about what frame phantom gets it's first hitbox *in front of* Zelda now. The kick looks pretty slow. If I had to guess, I'd imagine it isn't very good.

I want our fair to be a sexkick so bad, but I guess it's really time to resign ourselves to the trash.

I will when she stops being garbo and it looking like it wasn't stuck on with gluestick.

There's all these interesting characters in a good engine and the last thing I want to do is get stuck with picking the really crappy one that I've been picking for the last 6 years. Especially in a game that looks more and more difficult to be a single character main.

 

[Katy Parry]

I guess I'm just thinking about how fast the pace of this game is or the tempo. This game looks like constant rock paper scissors than tech skill.

The more I think about it, the less I see this move as a projectile and more a counter type ability
So use it on reaction defensively rather than approaching FIRST with it. It's a response type of move.

That's why it shines as an edgegaurd. They have to plan for the phantom and so Zelda is gonna get some crazy edgegaurds now compared to other characters

 

[meleebrawler]

I will when she stops being garbo and it looking like it wasn't stuck on with gluestick.

There's all these interesting characters in a good engine and the last thing I want to do is get stuck with picking the really crappy one that I've been picking for the last 6 years. Especially in a game that looks more and more difficult to be a single character main.

There has to be a reason you're still playing Zelda, and if it's not blackmail or getting paid to do so, then the only other reason is that you have fun playing her, even if you won't admit it.

Maybe you're all right in that Zelda will never be viable without a significant overhaul... in 1v1s. Zelda truly shines with someone supporting her or facing otherwise distracted foes, not unlike the non-Warrior games she fought in. You know, like actual mages in RPGs. But even putting aside mode discrepancy, Zelda has, in my eyes, felt better to play in every iteration, even if all of them are bottom tier in the ''be-all-end-all'' 1v1s. I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole if I could help it, was only good for cheesing FFAs with massive Din's, but in Smash 4 I have fun playing as Zelda, viability be damned. And she looks to be even more fun in Ultimate. I feel the same way with Pichu. Even if it were to turn out that there was no objective reason to ever use him over Pika, I still would, because I like him better for his uniqueness and cuteness.

Anyone here obviously likes playing Zelda, even if playing for fun without necessarily winning isn't a popular opinion around these parts.

 

[Freelance Spy]

I guess I'm just thinking about how fast the pace of this game is or the tempo. This game looks like constant rock paper scissors than tech skill.

The more I think about it, the less I see this move as a projectile and more a counter type ability
So use it on reaction defensively rather than approaching FIRST with it. It's a response type of move.

That's why it shines as an edgegaurd. They have to plan for the phantom and so Zelda is gonna get some crazy edgegaurds now compared to other characters

Our edgegaurds are indeed brutal now with single airdodges being a thing and our Dair being so good. Din's might even be useful in that way now, which is saying a lot. I hope our throws will be excellent for stage control, otherwise it could be rough getting people offstage in the first place.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

>Tfw you have found a group of dedicated players with probably the most tragic history and character in entirety of Smash Bros

(I've had my share of trying to fiddle with Zelda back in Melee and 4, since her being a magical fighter really drew me in as a kid, and I liked my fighting princesses (see me Melee main) - but I dropped her quickly due how janky and slow she felt to play as - it's like her attacks made "no sense" in means of how they functioned, her mobility all around felt really annoying to work with together.

So yeah, it's getting hard to tap on to her again in this iteration incase the best she gets is more waifu-fied design - that kind of rekindled me wanna try her out again since I loved LTTP + LBW.
That's not to say there's not been good bits, she seems comparatively better to Sm4sh Zelda with improvements to her signature moves, which is some exponential growth.

But hey, I'm all familiar with this stuff regarding Roy's competitive potential in the community, anyway - so I'll just be seeing what happens.
In anycase, props to you all for such amazing dedication. I can only hope the very best for all of us.)

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

>Tfw you have found a group of dedicated players with probably the most tragic history and character in entirety of Smash Bros

Tbh I think it's going to feel a lot more like this regardless of Zelda's viability.

 

[meleebrawler]

>Tfw you have found a group of dedicated players with probably the most tragic history and character in entirety of Smash Bros

(I've had my share of trying to fiddle with Zelda back in Melee and 4, since her being a magical fighter really drew me in as a kid, and I liked my fighting princesses (see me Melee main) - but I dropped her quickly due how janky and slow she felt to play as - it's like her attacks made "no sense" in means of how they functioned, her mobility all around felt really annoying to work with together.

So yeah, it's getting hard to tap on to her again in this iteration incase the best she gets is more waifu-fied design - that kind of rekindled me wanna try her out again since I loved LTTP + LBW.
That's not to say there's not been good bits, she seems comparatively better to Sm4sh Zelda with improvements to her signature moves, which is some exponential growth.

But hey, I'm all familiar with this stuff regarding Roy's competitive potential in the community, anyway - so I'll just be seeing what happens.
In anycase, props to you all for such amazing dedication. I can only hope the very best for all of us.)

Really what comes down to me preferring Sm4sh Zelda over all others is that her moves are all functional and do their jobs, even if they're undertuned. I can deal with my character being hard to use or win with, just so long as the moves work properly. All I'd ask for at this point is making Lightning Kicks a bit easier to land, even if it meant taking a hit to their power. Based on what I've seen it does appear to be the case, but you never know. At any rate, platform stages (ie. Battlefield) being more readily available will make them more threatening and give more opportunities to flex those Farore's ledge cancels.

Another thing I can say about character support is that if you like your character and playing them, viability should be a secondary concern. The Ridley supporters didn't campaign all these years on the condition they'd drop him like a sack of spuds if he was unviable competitively.

 

[Y2Kay]

yo meleebrawler it's been a minute, how's mhw for u?

 

[meleebrawler]

yo meleebrawler it's been a minute, how's mhw for u?

...I don't play Monster Hunter World, if that's what you're talking about. I only own a Switch and 3DS.

 

[Katy Parry]

Another thing imo

Since PS has IASA frames, you can Nayrus if they try to grab or punish.

So someone runs up, shields. You press down B,B for the first stage. They shield it and drop shield to attack you. If it hasn't pushed them away, you can Nayrus to call out a PS punish.

So they will have to learn to respect that by sitting in shield, blocking the phantom kick and waiting for your naryus

And that's when you grab them

Hell if the phantom kick was blocked you can potentially run away while they're in shield stun by buffering the input

Because there's something in between her and the opponent now and they don't get a free punish in the first place

 

[TheFacelessOne]

Really what comes down to me preferring Sm4sh Zelda over all others is that her moves are all functional and do their jobs, even if they're undertuned. I can deal with my character being hard to use or win with, just so long as the moves work properly. All I'd ask for at this point is making Lightning Kicks a bit easier to land, even if it meant taking a hit to their power. Based on what I've seen it does appear to be the case, but you never know. At any rate, platform stages (ie. Battlefield) being more readily available will make them more threatening and give more opportunities to flex those Farore's ledge cancels.

Another thing I can say about character support is that if you like your character and playing them, viability should be a secondary concern. The Ridley supporters didn't campaign all these years on the condition they'd drop him like a sack of spuds if he was unviable competitively.

I'm glad you managed to enjoy smash 4 Zelda. Unfortunately, she lost her shine for me sometime after wii u released. It was mostly due to moves I thought were a missed opportunity on top of being bad. I'm hoping its become apparent but I don't consider myself to be a Zelda main (or knowledgeable about her by any means). I actually dropped her to play a bunch of other characters I enjoyed that were also good competitively (toon link, rosa, ness, Villager, and Mewtwo come to mind). It got worse when I had thought of creating a mod that would bring my ideas to life, so whenever I look at her I think about what could have been.

I'm hoping this version might renew my love for her since I do like Zelda (the character) allot, but I guess we'll have to see. Feeling underwhelmed atm.

I'll stick around these boards a little but due to lack of things to contribute and how she may be turning out, I may look to other boards as well upon release. (also if anyone wants me to share some concepts I don't mind. Just saying)

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm glad you managed to enjoy smash 4 Zelda. Unfortunately, she lost her shine for me sometime after wii u released. It was mostly due to moves I thought were a missed opportunity on top of being bad. I'm hoping its become apparent but I don't consider myself to be a Zelda main (or knowledgeable about her by any means). I actually dropped her to play a bunch of other characters I enjoyed that were also good competitively (toon link, rosa, ness, Villager, and Mewtwo come to mind). It got worse when I had thought of creating a mod that would bring my ideas to life, so whenever I look at her I think about what could have been.

I'm hoping this version might renew my love for her since I do like Zelda (the character) allot, but I guess we'll have to see. Feeling underwhelmed atm.

I'll stick around these boards a little but due to lack of things to contribute and how she may be turning out, I may look to other boards as well upon release. (also if anyone wants me to share some concepts I don't mind. Just saying)

Well, I do know what it's like to have a character you like but unfortunately can't stomach the way they play. I think Gengar in Pokken is really hilarious to watch between rounds, but I always do really, really bad whenever I try to use him, and his disproportionately powerful super mode makes wins feel somewhat less satisfying.

At the end of the day, just remember that characters in Smash have to be balanced for things other than 1v1s, and Zelda has almost always been much better in modes that aren't that.

 

[Katy Parry]

Yeah, I think that's another reason I've been so defensive of Melee Zelda.

In my opinion, if you have less options to work with, the less your mind has to work to know what your coverage is. That's why Fox is never a character I would play. At that speed, it's a pissing contest Imo, and it's not a game anymore.

With Zelda I know i can't jump first. If I do I'll get punished, so I'm looking to jump after they do.
That's really all I have to worry about in the neutral. Ive still got my mad Zelda tech that's useless at that high speed, but it's enough to throw someone off and get a kick.

If I play fox, I have so much coverage I'm constantly considering my options. With Zelda I know my options are limited and so I play smarter, if that makes sense.

 

[meleebrawler]

Katy Parry That character in your profile pic from Octopath has caught my eye too, even though I don't really know much about her due to staying away from Octopath coverage to keep the game fresh and unspoiled. I'm currently deciding between her or the hunter girl.

 

[Katy Parry]

Katy Parry That character in your profile pic from Octopath has caught my eye too, even though I don't really know much about her due to staying away from Octopath coverage to keep the game fresh and unspoiled. I'm currently deciding between her or the hunter girl.

Pick Ophelia or BUST

Serious this game is like 999999/10 hands down best JRPG I have EVER played

 

[PurpleStuff5]

First off: this is my first post on this board that I've been lurking at for years, so I'm a bit nervous. jokerherewego.gif.

To respond to this:

"This right here is literally exactly why people will never care to approach Zelda while charging her Phantom, it's just a dumb thing to do. So Instead they will:

1. shield if it doesn't have massive shield pressure
2. jump (to which it has already been covered in this thread that Zelda has ridiculously ****ty anti-air tools)
3. or just stay out of range"

Even if phantom doesn't force an approach, causing your opponent to alter their neutral state in any way is still good for Zelda. Zelda's problem isn't just that she can't force approaches, it's also that opponents rarely have to even enter disadvantage against Zelda and her relatively lackluster frame data.

2/3 of these options aren't too shabby. Sure, Zelda's anti-air isn't anything to write home about, but having to land against her is still an advantage that we should be happy to have. Dash-cancelling & faster run speeds will also help her out in that regard. If the opponent has to shield phantom, zelda can still threaten with a grab, or look to gain a better position on the stage, since oos options shouldn't be as potent in this game.

To address your 3rd point, the opponent is either in range of phantom or not. If they aren't in range, then yea, like any projectile it won't do much besides provide stage coverage. If they are in range, however, the opponent has to respond to zelda in some way. And yes, one of these responses would be to approach if they feel that's the best response available (let's say they are close to zelda), in which case jumping/shielding would be less safe. If they choose to approach, Zelda also has the option of releasing phantom early as a defensive option too which they have to respond. Unlike Sm4sh, zelda isn't glued to the phantom which means that they can't just use shield as a universal option.

Being able to act with phantom delay is a HUGE buff that will at the very least make zelda a lot more interesting and fun to play, even if it doesn't improve her viability to much.

Some of y'all are way too pessimistic, I swear. Just try to lighten up and think of productive ways to use the tools we've been given. Moaning about how bad you think Zelda is just shouting at the void at this point, and just making this a place of negativity when it should be a positive one.

Edit: edited because I cant format correctly. ( Mobile life is hard)

 

[meleebrawler]

Pick Ophelia or BUST

Serious this game is like 999999/10 hands down best JRPG I have EVER played

I mean, I see her wielding a big staff obviously used for magic and having a guide ability just says to me ''this is a character I can trust to gather a close-knit group of friends''. So how could I not pick her to be the first and permanent fixture of the party?

 

[Katy Parry]

First off: this is my first post on this board that I've been lurking at for years, so I'm a bit nervous. jokerherewego.gif.

To respond to this:

"This right here is literally exactly why people will never care to approach Zelda while charging her Phantom, it's just a dumb thing to do. So Instead they will:

1. shield if it doesn't have massive shield pressure
2. jump (to which it has already been covered in this thread that Zelda has ridiculously ****ty anti-air tools)
3. or just stay out of range"

Even if phantom doesn't force an approach, causing your opponent to alter their neutral state in any way is still good for Zelda. Zelda's problem isn't just that she can't force approaches, it's also that opponents rarely have to even enter disadvantage against Zelda and her relatively lackluster frame data.

2/3 of these options aren't too shabby. Sure, Zelda's anti-air isn't anything to write home about, but having to land against her is still an advantage that we should be happy to have. Dash-cancelling & faster run speeds will also help her out in that regard. If the opponent has to shield phantom, zelda can still threaten with a grab, or look to gain a better position on the stage, since oos options shouldn't be as potent in this game.

To address your 3rd point, the opponent is either in range of phantom or not. If they aren't in range, then yea, like any projectile it won't do much besides provide stage coverage. If they are in range, however, the opponent has to respond to zelda in some way. And yes, one of these responses would be to approach if they feel that's the best response available (let's say they are close to zelda), in which case jumping/shielding would be less safe. If they choose to approach, Zelda also has the option of releasing phantom early as a defensive option too which they have to respond. Unlike Sm4sh, zelda isn't glued to the phantom which means that they can't just use shield as a universal option.

Being able to act with phantom delay is a HUGE buff that will at the very least make zelda a lot more interesting and fun to play, even if it doesn't improve her viability to much.

Some of y'all are way too pessimistic, I swear. Just try to lighten up and think of productive ways to use the tools we've been given. Moaning about how bad you think Zelda is just shouting at the void at this point, and just making this a place of negativity when it should be a positive one.

Edit: edited because I cant format correctly. ( Mobile life is hard)

I LOVE you.

I'm more of a visual learner and so as I watch all this gameplay in an unhealthy fashion, I'm not able to explain my excitement towards the move, because of the potential it offers. So I tend to get frustrated and I'll snap.

I thank you for explaining it this way, I think if you jump over to the Moveset thread we could have some really interesting theory crafting.

Thank you for being here.

 

[Lil Puddin]

The more I think about her the more that I'm done with bargain bin Tr4.5h. We all know that blonde weave is fake anyways

Gorl, yew do know that most of us magical gorls look like

Spoiler: this

and we aren't afraid to beat heauxes with their own dollar store wigs, right?

 

[EODM07]

How's it going Game Theorists?

Trying to keep cool as it has warmed up today; but shouldn't be too bad.

Also, I dunno why I'm always thinking of fighting game ideas and all that, that's what I get for being very imaginative and constantly generating ideas. :V

Though none of them will ever come to fruition.

Played quite a bit of BBTAG last night with some members of the BBTAG Discord, it was fun and hilarious.

Green coloured Carmine looks like the ooze from Nickelodeon. "My name's Carmine, and welcome to Nick Guts!"

Though I'll definitely need to improve some more. Might try out another character if I can, since I've completely neglected Rachel now.

For those that wanna know, I'm maining Kanji/Gordeau right now.

Kanji has issues and needs assists to make him even a threat, and some of his combos are inconsistent and same goes with his Aerial Command Grab too (Which can force him to get crossed up). Gordeau is a big boi who can get big damage; but that's it really. He has amazing range too, probably the 2nd longest reach. Tying with Waldstein and Blake beating them both range wise.

But Gordeau's kind of predictable, he does amazing damage; but the thing is as a Gordeau main, you'll always be fishing for 5B, and if they block it; you can either get punished really god damn hard or get a super in the face.

Which is why I'm waiting on Merkava or Yuzuriha, might give Ragna a shot. Or hopefully, we'll get Season 2 DLC and I can hope for Kokonoe.

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[Katy Parry]

How's it going Game Theorists?

Trying to keep cool as it has warmed up today; but shouldn't be too bad.

Also, I dunno why I'm always thinking of fighting game ideas and all that, that's what I get for being very imaginative and constantly generating ideas. :V

Though none of them will ever come to fruition.

Played quite a bit of BBTAG last night with some members of the BBTAG Discord, it was fun and hilarious.

Green coloured Carmine looks like the ooze from Nickelodeon. "My name's Carmine, and welcome to Nick Guts!"

Though I'll definitely need to improve some more. Might try out another character if I can, since I've completely neglected Rachel now.

For those that wanna know, I'm maining Kanji/Gordeau right now.

Kanji has issues and needs assists him even a threat, and some of his combos are inconsistent and same goes with his Aerial Command Grab too (Which can force him to get crossed up). Gordeau is a big boi who can get big damage; but that's it really. He has amazing range too, probably the 2nd longest reach. Tying with Waldstein and Blake beating them both range wise.

But Gordeau's kind of predictable, he goes amazing damage; but the thing is as a Gordeau main, you'll always be fishing for 5B, and if they block it; you can either get punished really god damn hard or get a super in the face.

Which is why I'm waiting on Merkava or Yuzuriha, might give Ragna a shot. Or hopefully, we'll get Season 2 DLC and I can hope for Kokonoe.

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

I just want nine.

And I'm gonna start doing yaoi of the day.

 

[BJN39]

I‘m not even sure I remember how EOD’s decision to post daily yuri came about anymore, but when I actually think about that existing....

 

[Lil Puddin]

How's it going Game Theorists?

literally the worst thing you've ever called us gorls omg y

I just want nine.

And I'm gonna start doing yaoi of the day.

I lowkey already do that, just with muscle doods instead of gorly-bois. :^)

Tho the amount of G-Rated Yuri EODM07 has dwarfs my G-Rated Bara by an impressive and immeasurable number. So it's more like Bara Of The Bweek since I couldn't keep up with a the sheer amount of Yuri.

I‘m not even sure I remember how EOD’s decision to post daily yuri came about anymore, but when I actually think about that existing....

tbh if EOD didn't post Yuri Of The Day, I'd be worried about ha. Just like I'd be worried about yew if yew didn't post a reaction gif once somewhere on the forums.

 

[Freelance Spy]

I LOVE you.

I'm more of a visual learner and so as I watch all this gameplay in an unhealthy fashion, I'm not able to explain my excitement towards the move, because of the potential it offers. So I tend to get frustrated and I'll snap.

I thank you for explaining it this way, I think if you jump over to the Moveset thread we could have some really interesting theory crafting.

Thank you for being here.

You should also realize that here in the Zelda boards, we are sardonic and sassy, more so than any other thread.

90% of what we say ha s a sarcastic catalyst to spur on our wickedness. I recommend not taking anything personal here in the trash...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

First off: this is my first post on this board that I've been lurking at for years, so I'm a bit nervous. jokerherewego.gif.

To respond to this:

"This right here is literally exactly why people will never care to approach Zelda while charging her Phantom, it's just a dumb thing to do. So Instead they will:

1. shield if it doesn't have massive shield pressure
2. jump (to which it has already been covered in this thread that Zelda has ridiculously ****ty anti-air tools)
3. or just stay out of range"

Even if phantom doesn't force an approach, causing your opponent to alter their neutral state in any way is still good for Zelda. Zelda's problem isn't just that she can't force approaches, it's also that opponents rarely have to even enter disadvantage against Zelda and her relatively lackluster frame data.

2/3 of these options aren't too shabby. Sure, Zelda's anti-air isn't anything to write home about, but having to land against her is still an advantage that we should be happy to have. Dash-cancelling & faster run speeds will also help her out in that regard. If the opponent has to shield phantom, zelda can still threaten with a grab, or look to gain a better position on the stage, since oos options shouldn't be as potent in this game.

To address your 3rd point, the opponent is either in range of phantom or not. If they aren't in range, then yea, like any projectile it won't do much besides provide stage coverage. If they are in range, however, the opponent has to respond to zelda in some way. And yes, one of these responses would be to approach if they feel that's the best response available (let's say they are close to zelda), in which case jumping/shielding would be less safe. If they choose to approach, Zelda also has the option of releasing phantom early as a defensive option too which they have to respond. Unlike Sm4sh, zelda isn't glued to the phantom which means that they can't just use shield as a universal option.

Being able to act with phantom delay is a HUGE buff that will at the very least make zelda a lot more interesting and fun to play, even if it doesn't improve her viability to much.

Some of y'all are way too pessimistic, I swear. Just try to lighten up and think of productive ways to use the tools we've been given. Moaning about how bad you think Zelda is just shouting at the void at this point, and just making this a place of negativity when it should be a positive one.

Edit: edited because I cant format correctly. ( Mobile life is hard)

1. Welcome!!
2. THANK U for this I agree with it all 100% like yeah..Zelda has sucked for a while but it could be way worse and we don't even know how good she'll be in Smash ultimate especially with the new phantom stuff u just mentioned. nobody here plays Zelda because she's a competitively viable character sooo LOL yeah let's just make the most of the new things we're being given and have fun doing it yknow. even if Zelda is "tr4sh" this game at least she'll be more like upgraded to recycling bc she has a lot of new options

 

[Freelance Spy]

1. Welcome!!
2. THANK U for this I agree with it all 100% like yeah..Zelda has sucked for a while but it could be way worse and we don't even know how good she'll be in Smash ultimate especially with the new phantom stuff u just mentioned. nobody here plays Zelda because she's a competitively viable character sooo LOL yeah let's just make the most of the new things we're being given and have fun doing it yknow. even if Zelda is "tr4sh" this game at least she'll be more like upgraded to recycling bc she has a lot of new options

You heard it here gorls. We the recycling bin now.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Nayru's is the toilet, Din's is the incinerator, Phantom Slash is the shredder and Farore's is... actually pretty good.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Nayru's is the toilet, Din's is the incinerator, Phantom Slash is the shredder and Farore's is... actually pretty good.

Farore makes it easier to throw the recyclables away from a further distance.

Truly the most magically advanced recycling bin that has ever existed.

Tho according to Sack O Rye's balancing philosophy, Zelda is mostly meant to be used in Team Fights or maybe FFAs.

While characters like Sheik, Cloud, or Bayonetta are for 1v1. And FFAs. And Team Fights as well.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

omg Zelda really HAS been a recycling bin this whole time...

- Nayru's REUSES projectiles
- Din's Fire BURNS things instead of putting them in the trash bin...
- Farore's wind kills people at 2% so they die very young and have no time to fill up landfills, also uses the power of nature (wind)
- and phantom is made of SCRAP METAL!!!
- she even loves nature so much that she summons lightning into her feet/toes

how dARE yew girls been calling Zelda tr4sh this entire time when shes been the environmentally friendly goddess we've needed!!!!!

 

[McKnightlíght]

Princess Planet.