Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
That's not good. I'm now concerned that the Autolink Angle no longer works like it did in Smash 3DS / Wii U. There's also the chance that the u-smash no longer autolinks.
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Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?
- Thread starter Luminario
- Start date
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
To me it looks like she hit with maybe the tip of the upsmash? It looks like her hand gets lower towards the end of the animation.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Then I guess the hitbox placement is another thing to keep in mind. In Smash 3DS / Wii U, the hitboxes for Zelda's u-smash were not attached to any of Zelda's arm bones, so it didn't matter where Zelda's arm was positioned.
otheusrex
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2013
- Messages
- 342
I highly doubt that the general hitbox placement being floating on the 0 bone has changed. Her hand has always swept above her in a not even fashion, but the hitboxes have always been symmetricial. The reason why it didn't connect is probably for the same reason her multihits ahve always struggled. SDI and gaps in the multihit linking cycle. Upsmash for instance, typically has a first and second part separated by 5-8 frames I can't remember exactly. But that gives an opponent time for their sdi to move them out of the hitboxes.
Back in early SSB4 Jiggs would float out the top of Usmash as well. It was also always strongly weight based due to the nature of set knockback hitboxes in general.
Clearly the move got re-hitboxed again and the previous SSB4 KB numbers and hitbox specifics used don’t quite work like they should all the time. This has been a recurring problem for her multi hits, being redesigned every game. The difference is that they finally connected correctly in a game for the first time. (after patches) I will say that for all we know these whiffs could be the rare outlier situation and it won’t actually hurt her in comp matches.
That said I would never take my chances just accepting that
At least if patches proved anything, Sakurai intends to have the moves work correctly from now on and there was enough outcry in s4 to warrant their fixing. If we make sure to make these whiffs very public again perhaps we can help the game release with functional Usmash/Fsmash
Clearly the move got re-hitboxed again and the previous SSB4 KB numbers and hitbox specifics used don’t quite work like they should all the time. This has been a recurring problem for her multi hits, being redesigned every game. The difference is that they finally connected correctly in a game for the first time. (after patches) I will say that for all we know these whiffs could be the rare outlier situation and it won’t actually hurt her in comp matches.
That said I would never take my chances just accepting that
At least if patches proved anything, Sakurai intends to have the moves work correctly from now on and there was enough outcry in s4 to warrant their fixing. If we make sure to make these whiffs very public again perhaps we can help the game release with functional Usmash/Fsmash
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
All that I know is that if the u-smash was modified so that it uses the following script, it would likely do a much better job of keeping fighters trapped, assuming that Smash Ultimate's Autolink Angle mechanics are the same as Smash Wii U's.
Basically, the looping hitboxes would hit more frequently, and would always autolink aerial targets.
Code:
AttackHi4
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
Bit_Variable_Set(Variable=0x2100001B)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=9)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x16E, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=18, Z=0, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, StretchToggle=0x0)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x1, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x5A, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=18, Z=0, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x1, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, StretchToggle=0x0)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(ID=0x2, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x16E, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=11, Z=0, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, X2=0, Y2=18, Z2=0)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(ID=0x3, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x5A, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=11, Z=0, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x1, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, X2=0, Y2=18, Z2=0)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(ID=0x4, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x16E, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=17, Z=-5, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, X2=0, Y2=17, Z2=5)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(ID=0x5, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=1, Angle=0x5A, KBG=0x64, WBKB=0x14, BKB=0x0, Size=4.2, X=0, Y=17, Z=-5, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=0.5, SDI=0.2, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXLevel=0x0, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x1, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, Action=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Blockability=0x1, Reflectable=0x0, Absorbable=0x0, Rehit=0x2, IgnoreInvuln=0x0, Unknown=0x0, FacingRestrict=0x0, Unknown=0x0, TeamDamage=0x0, DisableHitlag=0x0, NoGFX=0x0, Flinchless=0x0, X2=0, Y2=17, Z2=5)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=34)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Extended_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=5, Angle=0x5A, KBG=0xC8, WBKB=0x0, BKB=0x24, Size=7.5, X=0, Y=21, Z=0, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=2, SDI=1, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x5, SFXLevel=0x2, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x3, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, X2=0, Y2=15, Z2=0)
Extended_Hitbox(ID=0x1, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=5, Angle=0x5A, KBG=0xC8, WBKB=0x0, BKB=0x24, Size=7.5, X=0, Y=18, Z=-6, Effect=0x1A, Trip=0, Hitlag=2, SDI=1, Clang=0x0, Rebound=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x5, SFXLevel=0x2, SFXType=0x10, Ground/Air=0x3, Direct/Indirect=0x1, Type=0xF, X2=0, Y2=18, Z2=6)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=1)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=36)
Set_Frame_Duration(Speed=0.5)
Script_End()
TheFacelessOne
Smash Cadet
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- 44
If I was to give a reason I'd say it's because no one has really explored the game. People have don't have time to lab out how different moves and mechanics work so they've just stuck to the tried and true smash 4 tactics. No one has used the new dash mechanics or parrying. I remember some of the top players didn't think stage 1 phantom had a hitbox on it. They really just want to play.Why people are playing Zelda likeinstead of a zoner like Pac-Man is beyond me.
If she is that slow and has that level of commitment to her strong attacks why are you approaching like you are playing a rushdown character? This is a really strange thing people do that only shows that her overall badness in Smash gave her very little competitive identity to most Smashers.
I honestly want to see how Phantom is used to establish neutral, land, or even edgeguard (along with her new dash tilts and smashes) before I make further judgments. I don't see her being any better than
Phantom is going to be the main tool she uses to do something if she is able to do anything at all. I find it ironic Transform being removed from Zelda didn't change the fact that Zelda's character is still her down B. Some things never change.
But you know if perception is that she's just ok and nintendo is accepting feedback I don't mind if they give her an extra somethin, somethin. Faster hitbox here, a little more lag off here (I must spam dins MORE). High tier anyone? (edit: just made a joke here if no one saw it)
Edit: Reading this post hurts tbh. I think I was saying "No one's explored the game, they just want to play the game, don't expect 'optimal' play." But, after the twitter incident, I don't want anything else to come across maliciously. I'm sorry and know that wasn't my intention.
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Agreed. I just want rehit rates on her multihits. It makes the hitboxes so much meatier and consistent at winning hits. See: Palutena’s
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Yeah I've worked on Palutena's moveset as well. However, I was able to get her u-tilt to operate properly without the Autolink Angle.
otheusrex
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2013
- Messages
- 342
Isn't that missing a loop code? Unless I'm mistaken about what writing code in sm4sh is like
He replaced the loop function with a different hitbox base that has a data extension including “re-hit rate.”
Near the end of each hitbox string is rehit=0x2 which would mean it rehits every 2F.
Also looking more closely, M&SG opted for all 1% multihits like Brawl/Melee and used stretchy hitboxes for the final hit so it only uses 2 instead of 4.
I’m not sure why, but I actually prefer the unique design of 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 0.8, 0.8, 0.8, 5 instead of all 1s. Both would work, all 1s would just have more hits.
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Rehit is what you're looking for. What that does is determine how many frames have to be played before the hitbox can hit again. When set to 0x0, the hitbox can only hit once, but when set to 0x2, the hitbox will hit the target again after 2 frames have played, except when it clangs with other hitboxes. However, in the coding that I showed, all hitboxes have transcendent priority, so the clanging dilemma would never happen.
otheusrex
Smash Journeyman
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Oh ok, that's interesting to learn. I guess it's a code trick to save some space then. so if the parameter "rehit 0x2" means, repeat the hitboxes every 2 frames, then I'm guessing that continues until the line "delete all hitboxes" in which case there would be 12 linking hits before the the final one. Isn't that kind of a lot? lol
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
The main problem with the original u-smash is that the hitboxes are only active for one frame, they turn off for 2 frames before turning on again, and only one hitbox autolinks, but it has the lowest priority of all the active hitboxes. And after the 4th hit, there's a 6 frame delay before the 5th hit occurs.
The changes that I made to the u-smash ensure that its looping hitboxes will stay on for frames 9-33. And the looping hitboxes are adjusted so that there are 6 hitboxes, with three of them being used for the aerial targets (the hitboxes that use the autolink angle; 0x16E), while the other three are used for the ground targets (the hitboxes with the 90 degree knockback angle; 0x5A). By having all the looping aerial hitboxes autolink, that helps to ensure that targets can't escape from the final hit that occurs on frame 34.
On a final note, the original u-smash deals up to 8 hits that add up to 15.4% damage, while my edit deals up to 14 hits that add up to 18% damage. Additionally, my edit KOs Mario at 94% damage if all 14 hits connect.
Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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- Aug 25, 2014
- Messages
- 14,629
This talk about multi-hits and how they're failing, again, makes me wonder if that's why Zelda's Nair was changed from a 5-hit move to a 3-hit one. The less hits there are means the less chances there are it will fail at some point. On a similar note, how Wolf went from having a unique Nair that was single-hit with its clean hit and a multi-hit with its late hits to a flying side kick like Fox, Luigi, and Mario would make it more consistent and also double as being able to give him a more different looking move compared to Meta Knight, Sonic, and Pikachu's old Nair. That still leaves the question of why Pikachu's Nair was changed to a multi-hit move and what about Falco's Nair which is functionally similar to Zelda's Nair. Pikachu you could chalk up to either it was Pikachu or Pichu who needed a different move to differentiate them a bit more.
Rapid jabs being sped up would be for the same reason as well. Captain Falcon, Falco, Fox, and Zelda's rapid jabs look fast or faster in the case of Capt. and Falco since Fox's was fast in Smash 4. The games function differently, but multi-hit moves, outside of throws or forced moves like items, hazards, and Final Smashes, were always inconsistent which I feel like is a given because of how attacks and knockback work in Smash compared to other fighting games; Smash is knockback-based while other fighting games are damage-based. Some characters have good multi-hit moves in every game like Fox, especially after Brawl when Fair was changed while others are hit or miss like Zelda's Smashes are weird, got fixed in Smash 4, and probably need to be readjusted for Ultimate, but her Nair and Nayru's Love function fine in every game as far as I know. In some cases, it's inexplicable like why was it that in Smash 4, Sheik's Uair was a perfectly working multi-hit move, but Samus's had issues with dropping people from time to time.
Multi-hit moves that are intentionally made to fail like post-Melee Fire Bird and Brawl Fire Wolf are fine since while they can be used as attacks, they're usually meant for getting out and the damage and hitstun seems more to deter and stall people. Other special cases like Fox and Falco's Fairs in Melee and pre-1.1.3 Smash 4 Ganondorf's Nair and Link's Fair seem to be a stylistic choice since each hit has significant knockback. I would like to see those return, but that doesn't seem to be the case for Ganondorf? I think and Link whose Fair is much faster on its second hit follow-up. I could actually see young Link possibly retaining Link's old Fair and Falco's Nair or possibly his Fair. At least that would make Nair much more different than his Fair now, but they might need to change its animation a little bit unless they want it to be a two-hit move with its first two hits and like his Melee Fair with its third and fourth hits. I get that people want to see moves with multiple hits connect all their hits, but every now and again, a move with multiple hits that function differently would be a fresh thing.
Edit: Forgot about this, but with all the Zelda videos being posted, I wonder if maybe a video thread should be made.
Edit 2: Edit Harder: Never mind, Ganondorf's Nair seems to be like it was before 1.1.3 Smash 4. His landing lag looks terrifying: https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyRelentlessFoxVoHiYo.
Rapid jabs being sped up would be for the same reason as well. Captain Falcon, Falco, Fox, and Zelda's rapid jabs look fast or faster in the case of Capt. and Falco since Fox's was fast in Smash 4. The games function differently, but multi-hit moves, outside of throws or forced moves like items, hazards, and Final Smashes, were always inconsistent which I feel like is a given because of how attacks and knockback work in Smash compared to other fighting games; Smash is knockback-based while other fighting games are damage-based. Some characters have good multi-hit moves in every game like Fox, especially after Brawl when Fair was changed while others are hit or miss like Zelda's Smashes are weird, got fixed in Smash 4, and probably need to be readjusted for Ultimate, but her Nair and Nayru's Love function fine in every game as far as I know. In some cases, it's inexplicable like why was it that in Smash 4, Sheik's Uair was a perfectly working multi-hit move, but Samus's had issues with dropping people from time to time.
Multi-hit moves that are intentionally made to fail like post-Melee Fire Bird and Brawl Fire Wolf are fine since while they can be used as attacks, they're usually meant for getting out and the damage and hitstun seems more to deter and stall people. Other special cases like Fox and Falco's Fairs in Melee and pre-1.1.3 Smash 4 Ganondorf's Nair and Link's Fair seem to be a stylistic choice since each hit has significant knockback. I would like to see those return, but that doesn't seem to be the case for Ganondorf? I think and Link whose Fair is much faster on its second hit follow-up. I could actually see young Link possibly retaining Link's old Fair and Falco's Nair or possibly his Fair. At least that would make Nair much more different than his Fair now, but they might need to change its animation a little bit unless they want it to be a two-hit move with its first two hits and like his Melee Fair with its third and fourth hits. I get that people want to see moves with multiple hits connect all their hits, but every now and again, a move with multiple hits that function differently would be a fresh thing.
Edit: Forgot about this, but with all the Zelda videos being posted, I wonder if maybe a video thread should be made.
Edit 2: Edit Harder: Never mind, Ganondorf's Nair seems to be like it was before 1.1.3 Smash 4. His landing lag looks terrifying: https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyRelentlessFoxVoHiYo.
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Luminario
Smash Lord
How many times does Nairo have to be punished off stage when using Din before he learns he shouldn't use it there? Also I think this video shows that Din's hitbox can actually be negated by attacks.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
He’s embarrassing her. Phantom is now her main tool and he used it once. We can’t judge anything on him, or care that he’s giving her a bad name so far.
EDIT: yeah I had no right to phrase this the way I did
the mind games
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KlicKlac
Smash Journeyman
Rapid jab can kill now! And if it's only frame 4 start up...might be getting a lot of kills this way.
「 Derk 」
4th times the charm...
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That green skin looks really good in action. That's pretty much the only thing I got out of that video
TheFacelessOne
Smash Cadet
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Ignore this. The post that was here come across like I wanted to at all. I'm sorry.
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Din's Fire only had transcendent priority in Melee, so it's baffling that the developers changed it so that it can clang with other hitboxes. If anything, Din's Fire should always have transcendent priority.
I'm not convinced that 2min timer with items on is going to give you the gameplay quality you're looking for. Not exactly Nairo's fault lmao.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
Alright guys, Phantom Slash theory for ya. Tell me what you think.
KEY
INPUT/COMMAND
ADVANCED TECH
EXPLANATION
OPTION SELECT
SITUATIONAL OPTION SELECT
Neutral Begins:
1.) Dash Away >
2.) Jump >
3.) Opposite Direction Input >
4.A) Phantom Slash BTURN (Down, Down Forward Input [to move at a progressively acute angle towards enemy while charging]
OR
4.B) Phantom Slash BTURN (Down, Down Away Input) [to move at a progressively obtuse angle away from enemy while charging]
5.A) Release Phantom [for a Frame 10 “Jab”, the “boot” Jab reset on Platforms*****]
OR
5.B) Charge Phantom [into any stage and release at any point while retaining momentum]
***** Phantom 1st Phase comes out on Frame 10.
This might not work at all, but I loved Phantom in Smash 4. I was so happy they were split. For the longest time I HATED it, but the new excited me beyond all measure.
But it sucked. It had its uses, but come on. So after placing 7th at the first SSB3DS Tournament, SHUFFL 2014, I felt I was onto something but I live in Indiana, and one best friend to lab with, who happens to play everyone, thankfully lol.
I wanted Phantom be good so badly that I started thinking of every way I could use it, especially because it was clear she was still terrible. And with B turning, almost always when I’d use it, because I can the option to run away and decide to rengage or disengage.
But the move would whiff for no reason. People eventually learned on the ground to run through my phantom for free...just by being too close to me.
I gave up until she received the 0 percent hitbox buff. I was flabbergasted. Zelda was getting buffs. Then the move was wonderful, because it, upon a correct read, I was always safe, and usually always safe when moving away out of the b turn.
We dove a lot into the mind games and mobility of this, and now: (bear with me due to wording) that Phantom IS a mind game move, you can mind game IF going to mind game.
I hope I’m making sense. I’m just glad I have all of you to theorycraft as much as we can so we can finally change the meta.
KEY
INPUT/COMMAND
ADVANCED TECH
EXPLANATION
OPTION SELECT
SITUATIONAL OPTION SELECT
Neutral Begins:
1.) Dash Away >
2.) Jump >
3.) Opposite Direction Input >
4.A) Phantom Slash BTURN (Down, Down Forward Input [to move at a progressively acute angle towards enemy while charging]
OR
4.B) Phantom Slash BTURN (Down, Down Away Input) [to move at a progressively obtuse angle away from enemy while charging]
5.A) Release Phantom [for a Frame 10 “Jab”, the “boot” Jab reset on Platforms*****]
OR
5.B) Charge Phantom [into any stage and release at any point while retaining momentum]
***** Phantom 1st Phase comes out on Frame 10.
This might not work at all, but I loved Phantom in Smash 4. I was so happy they were split. For the longest time I HATED it, but the new excited me beyond all measure.
But it sucked. It had its uses, but come on. So after placing 7th at the first SSB3DS Tournament, SHUFFL 2014, I felt I was onto something but I live in Indiana, and one best friend to lab with, who happens to play everyone, thankfully lol.
I wanted Phantom be good so badly that I started thinking of every way I could use it, especially because it was clear she was still terrible. And with B turning, almost always when I’d use it, because I can the option to run away and decide to rengage or disengage.
But the move would whiff for no reason. People eventually learned on the ground to run through my phantom for free...just by being too close to me.
I gave up until she received the 0 percent hitbox buff. I was flabbergasted. Zelda was getting buffs. Then the move was wonderful, because it, upon a correct read, I was always safe, and usually always safe when moving away out of the b turn.
We dove a lot into the mind games and mobility of this, and now: (bear with me due to wording) that Phantom IS a mind game move, you can mind game IF going to mind game.
I hope I’m making sense. I’m just glad I have all of you to theorycraft as much as we can so we can finally change the meta.
Last edited:
「 Derk 」
4th times the charm...
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They are not even using the items. They don't have a toggle for items so they are choosing to ignore them. Nairo accidently grabbed the bunny ears and that was the only item used. He is picking really poor options like Din's Fire offstage and keeps getting punished for it, not using phantoms, repeatedly using punishable options on stage, etc... Esam seems to be playing perfectly fine so I'm pretty content with blaming Nairo.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
Did you see my post above? I think I’d like to tweet this to Nario maybe
Berserker.
:^)
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- the e3 build ain't the final version
- it's timed mode and items are on
- you guys haven't tried out zelda in ssbu
if you guys wanna ask for something, ask for (or whine for idc) zelda buffs. nitpicking nairo won't do jack **** except make you guys sound unnecessarily (<--- key word) whiny
- it's timed mode and items are on
- you guys haven't tried out zelda in ssbu
if you guys wanna ask for something, ask for (or whine for idc) zelda buffs. nitpicking nairo won't do jack **** except make you guys sound unnecessarily (<--- key word) whiny
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KlicKlac
Smash Journeyman
I have no problems with how Nairo is using Zelda. I'm actually happy he isn't ignoring Din's Fire. Nairo is trying to lab new uses for the move, and I'm really thankful for that. My first thought after we learned there's no more free fall was to test what sort of ways Zelda could play with Dins off stage.
Also, we would have never known Zelda's rapid jab has killing potential if Nairo didn't show it. That alone increased my hype so much and made my day.
I appreciate the Zelda gameplay he is uploading, and am looking forward to more videos.
Also, we would have never known Zelda's rapid jab has killing potential if Nairo didn't show it. That alone increased my hype so much and made my day.
I appreciate the Zelda gameplay he is uploading, and am looking forward to more videos.
I leave the Zelda boards for a week and suddenly it's on Twitter?
This thread needs some of the Brawl Zelda forum culture immediately. Y'know where we complain about the character to no end and worship the players that play Zelda. Those that didn't were "delusional"... remember that Brawl Zeldas?
This thread needs some of the Brawl Zelda forum culture immediately. Y'know where we complain about the character to no end and worship the players that play Zelda. Those that didn't were "delusional"... remember that Brawl Zeldas?
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
-these are things you adhere to as well, you’re coming off as rude when frankly, we discuss anything related to Zelda Ultimate in this thread, that includes opinions of play styles, not his skill level
-just because we’re expressive about the opinions allowed to us by said thread rules doesn’t meant we are nitpicking him, we’re nitpicking his option select in reference to his Smash 4 conditioning of how he plays Zelda
-we know this
This is a discussion group, and we can have opinion on, regardless of the factors you listed (which are obvious to us all as we’ve been discussing all 3 of those “points” in this thread already, it’s not like you’re reminding of us something we forgot)
You’re a mod and frankly, the manner in which you’ve chosen to jump into the conversation is offputting to members because some of us (projecting) can’t read a style like that. New members and guests won’t have proper context on you. We all know how literal text can’t appear at times. So I myself can’t tell if you’re being lighthearted here or what. That’s why you’re getting a big long reply and I want to be throughout.
Because frankly, I feel based on your reply, that you didn’t think it was even worth theory rafting.
Because I’ve been here for awhile and I thought this was okay, but if I need to make a new thread for it that’s fine.
MockRock
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 193
Ohhhhhhhh don't worry, the word got out just fine.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
to be honest, yeah i was rude but when i see things like this:
i'm put off by this post. saying things like "embarassing her" or "giving her a bad name" is just wrong lol. you gotta relax, chill, and take a step back dudeHe’s embarrassing her. Phantom is now her main tool and he used it once. We can’t judge anything on him, or care that he’s giving her a bad name so far. She def had the tools to win that match
the mind games
IndigoSSB
Back from the dead
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2015
- Messages
- 441
All things aside nairo's assessment of zelda seems accurate no matter how much it seems like he's giving her a "bad name". Using phantom as her main tool in neutral is unrealistic given that you have to charge it to get a decent effect from it. It's a step up from what it was before but still not as useful as DH's gunman as an example.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
Maybe you are in the minority here. I just money matched Narios quick to judge ass to a $100 Melee money match, zelda ditto and 3 months after smash ult comes out. I'm on the front page of his Twitter dealing with the rest of his presumptuous fan base, and the malevolence this is creating because we shared an opinion of a player of a sport.
But everyone can go ahead and watch their football games and complain and that's just part of the fun, but this is different I guess.
So with ALL due respect, maybe we both should relax, chill, and take a step back, dude. Because now I can definitely say after being forced into this position, I need to chill.
Lastly I even said we can't judge him yet. I said that. Is that what you or nario pay attention to? No.
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The revelation here is that people STILL namesearch on Smashboards for whatever reason.
Let's leave the drama to the Peach mains.
Let's leave the drama to the Peach mains.
I don’t understand why this got heated, like, to the point where we literally got pointed out on Twitter. Literally Nairo has namesearched our A’s in the past on the S4 board and it was because some gurls were not being cute. Some of these ‘assessments’ of Nairo’s gameplay snippet are kinda uncalled for.
Personally, Alacion is right and I miss the og “love your players and be realistic about Zelda’s poor aspects”. I think we can peacefully agree that the game is unreleased and not final in design. Actually, I’m just happy to absorb anything we can get and RN he’s giving us the most to work with.
...
Hex for all we know something we’ve seen and liked was actually something Sakurai deems a bug. The gag if freefall din’s or og phantom release style makes it in before December...LOL
...
Hex for all we know something we’ve seen and liked was actually something Sakurai deems a bug. The gag if freefall din’s or og phantom release style makes it in before December...LOL
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Nammy12
Smash Lord
lmaooooooooo
zelda socials never fail to be a good source of entertainment
love you guys
zelda socials never fail to be a good source of entertainment
love you guys
Pages D. Reed
Smash Rookie
You can't necessarily argue you've been put into this situation when you implicated yourself, if you say something, especially a controversial statement, expect backlash. Now I agree, some people are unnecessarily taking this a bit far and even being hypocritical with their own knee-jerk reactions. However, we can't honestly be shocked or confused when a statement such as "He's embarrassing her" arises on his feed; it's a silly statement, along with being a bit dismissive of his intentions & skill level. Additionally, I don't appreciate the snarky attitude of statements such as "How are they talking trash when I use Zelda 1/10th as much as them yet its still better than theirs?" coming from Nairo, as it's arrogant and while partially true isn't the way to go about things. Of course, I'm confident I missed a few points, but honestly I'm too exhausted to legitimately spend time elaborating on every potential point, the school year has drained me of any attempt to do so.
Mocha
Coffee Addict
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,046
- NNID
- Mocha151
- 3DS FC
- 4640-0063-5592
I would actually love to see more gameplay without items, even when they ignore them. For now, we can only take what we can get. I too wouldn't have known her Jab could kill if Nairo hadnt demonstrated it. Relax, dears.