Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Soul.]

I kinda wish I mained Robin so I could help advance it. You can do so much with equipment drops that I never see any Robin do

Is this customs on or off?

 

[Macchiato]

You know, for all the **** I disagree with you about that Robin post, this actually makes sense. His meta hasn't advanced much or at all, if anything.

I honestly feel like it's going backwards. Even if she isn't that bad atm she will if they don't start making a change in her game. It's kinda sad to say.

Robin's meta isn't advancing too badly really. There are a few competitive players who use Robin (Trela, Nairo, Raziek)

Nairo doesn't use her as much, he's probably a ZSS main. Well until the patch

 

[Soul.]

If you have "Share Info" turned on your game's options I suggest you turn that **** off. I have it turned off.
I don't want Nintendo to know how I play this game i cri evertim

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Is this customs on or off?

Judging by Palutena being very low, I'd say customs off

 

[HeroMystic]

Since I was asked:

Jumping on the bandwagon because why not?

Customs Off:

S:
S-:
A+:
A:
B+:
B:
C+:
C:

I want to believe: Lucas
I don't care: Mewtwo

There was some attempt to order this for the most part

shouldn't have her own tier. She's just not that potent. I can accept having his own.

need to have some reasoning to being in leagues with the A+ tier. I'd put Luigi there before Ness.

need some reasoning to being at the bottom of A tier. Definitely better than and is only better due to his MU with Diddy despite getting **** all over by Rosalina. Debatable with due to his better MU vs Diddy and Sheik but Falcon has a more solid MU spread vs the Top tiers.

is mildly better than . Probably by a tier's worth. I can explain this if interested.

is not Top 5 damnit.


Edit: Also, you ******* need to watch Trela's Robin.

 

[Soul.]

oh yeah what was I saying about Sheik?
"Pikachu isn't worthwhile as long as Sheik is around"
thats stupid

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Trela's Robin is amazing. He makes her seem so fast and fluid

 

[Lavani]

[is] Definitely better than

is not Top 5 damnit.

I'd like to hear more on these.

 

[Antonykun]

Edit: Also, you *****es need to watch Trela's Swordfighter.

FTFY
Seriously though he made me fall in love with Swordfighter's F-smash

 

[Fernosaur]

Wow, I'm replacing you with @ Berserker. in my story.

Although, I only do loldumb stuff against @Spirst (who refuses to play against it or joins in with some equipment character), @Locke 06 (who leaves the lobby and goes to play For Glory), @Parcheesy (who leaves the lobby then sits in his own, alone), @King_Peachee (who probably hates me because of how hard he's gotten loldumb'd), and @Fenrir VII (who ends up leaving and turning the game off).

I AIN'T THAT BAD.

But if I ever play you, I'm ledge camping you now.

You can't ask me to be patient about your troll playing if you can't take me calling you a disgrace to evolution >:I

GET ON THE SAME LEVEL, BRUH

 

[Berserker.]

I don't think Robin's bottom tier. He's better in practice than in theory BUT he still has some crippling flaws that can be exploited. He's mid tier in my book (I still fear for his meta though not moving that much)

 

[Lavani]

He's better on paper than in theory

um

 

[Soul.]

These are dark times indeed..
for the Fire Emblem tier has been made.

 

[FullMoon]

Since I was asked:




shouldn't have her own tier. She's just not that potent. I can accept having his own.

need to have some reasoning to being in leagues with the A+ tier. I'd put Luigi there before Ness.

need some reasoning to being at the bottom of A tier. Definitely better than and is only better due to his MU with Diddy despite getting **** all over by Rosalina. Debatable with due to his better MU vs Diddy and Sheik but Falcon has a more solid MU spread vs the Top tiers.

is mildly better than . Probably by a tier's worth. I can explain this if interested.

is not Top 5 damnit.

I particularly don't really think Sheik needs a tier just for her, I just gave her one since other than Diddy she gets the most consistent results

Ness... He was the one I was debating on putting on A+. It was either him or Luigi. Ness's F-Air chains are pretty hard to get around thanks to his disjoing and just the way his jumps work, plus that B-Throw and D-Throw combo setups. His recovery is exploitable but there's some risk in going after him for the gimp since if he hits you with PK Thunder 2, you're pretty much dead. Luigi has his ridiculous combos, but his mobility is so bad that I think he's really hurt by it, plus his recovery is pretty exploitable as well without being as risky to gimp as Ness. There might be some bias in this case though, since Luigi is one of Greninja's easier MUs.

Falcon... I never really got all the hype surrounding him. His disadvantaged state is really exploitable and his recovery sucks. He can dish out a lot of damage and he has the best dash grab in the game, sure, he can also kill pretty early, yeah... But overall I pretty much think of Falcon as being pretty similar to Greninja in that he gets a lot of reward on hit and he can combo pretty well off a throw... Only with Greninja having a better recovery and disadvantage state, as well as having the benefit of a projectile.

I'm interested in the difference between the Links, considering I pretty much always have a lot more trouble with Toon Link.

I'm also interested in why Sonic isn't Top 5

 

[Deleted member]

If you have "Share Info" turned on your game's options I suggest you turn that **** off. I have it turned off.
I don't want Nintendo to know how I play this game i cri evertim

Who does that anyway?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I particularly don't really think Sheik needs a tier just for her, I just gave her one since other than Diddy she gets the most consistent results

Ness... He was the one I was debating on putting on A+. It was either him or Luigi. Ness's F-Air chains are pretty hard to get around thanks to his disjoing and just the way his jumps work, plus that B-Throw and D-Throw combo setups. His recovery is exploitable but there's some risk in going after him for the gimp since if he hits you with PK Thunder 2, you're pretty much dead. Luigi has his ridiculous combos, but his mobility is so bad that I think he's really hurt by it, plus his recovery is pretty exploitable as well without being as risky to gimp as Ness. There might be some bias in this case though, since Luigi is one of Greninja's easier MUs.

Falcon... I never really got all the hype surrounding him. His disadvantaged state is really exploitable and his recovery sucks. He can dish out a lot of damage and he has the best dash grab in the game, sure, he can also kill pretty early, yeah... But overall I pretty much think of Falcon as being pretty similar to Greninja in that he gets a lot of reward on hit and he can combo pretty well off a throw... Only with Greninja having a better recovery and disadvantage state, as well as having the benefit of a projectile.

I'm interested in the difference between the Links, considering I pretty much always have a lot more trouble with Toon Link.

I'm also interested in why Sonic isn't Top 5

Inb4 the reason for sonic not being top 5 is because his landing options are trash.

 

[Berserker.]

um

I think I've burnt myself out on the GIF's

 

[Soul.]

inb4 it's also because sonic depends on mixups

 

[Antonykun]

These are dark times indeed..
for the Fire Emblem tier has been made.

Sometimes I like to pretend Swordfighter is an FE Mercenary just to explain his bottom 5 status

 

[Soul.]

Sometimes I like to pretend Swordfighter is an FE Mercenary just to explain his bottom 5 status

I'll laugh if they buff Swordfighter on April 15th

 

[|ven|]

Sometimes I like to pretend Swordfighter is an FE Mercenary just to explain his bottom 5 status

 

[Berserker.]

Alright, I'll try this one more time

For all the **** that people throw at Robin, once you get around his steep learning curve, he's actually good. Robin also gets the benefit of having active representation in tournaments. Only reason why I haven't really ranked Robin that high in my list is because no matter how much you twist it, he still has some crippling issues that severely hurt him. It's something to do with how he deals with pressure. He CANNOT handle pressure well. Characters that can easily bypass his zone are going to be a ****-fest for him. It's not impossible to win, you just need to work hard. He's also the type of character that requires you to think of how you should handle a situation. If there's something that stands out for me with Robin, it's his incredibly solid moveset. He has the answer for almost any situation. Almost any being the key word because he has limited options when he's at close quarters but anyway.... His moveset is versatile. Because of this, I doubt anyone in the cast invalidates his existence and his worst match ups are at worst: An uphill battle. You gotta think with Robin because your mobility sucks and if you **** up with your plans, you're dead. Your ability to develop strategies and tactics is being tested with Robin. You're relatively limited, but you can still hold your own and tip the scales to your favor

And this is why Robin is a well-designed character

Like what Trela said, "But like a tactician, I think my way around these situations."

 

[Shrokatii]

We can still play lol. GGs as well

Oh ok lol

Well if you want to keep playing still then we can I guess

I had to do something real quick, so sorry for the late reply

 

[Trieste SP]

Alright, I'll try this one more time

For all the **** that people throw at Robin, once you get around his steep learning curve, he's actually good. Robin also gets the benefit of having active representation in tournaments. Only reason why I haven't really ranked Robin that high in my list is because no matter how much you twist it, he still has some crippling issues that severely hurt him. It's something to do with how he deals with pressure. He CANNOT handle pressure well. Characters that can easily bypass his zone are going to be a ****-fest for him. It's not impossible to win, you just need to work hard. He's also the type of character that requires you to think of how you should handle a situation. If there's something that stands out for me with Robin, it's his incredibly solid moveset. He has the answer for almost any situation. Almost any being the key word because he has limited options when he's at close quarters but anyway.... His moveset is versatile. Because of this, I doubt anyone in the cast invalidates his existence and his worst match ups are at worst: An uphill battle. You gotta think with Robin because your mobility sucks and if you **** up with your plans, you're dead. Your ability to develop strategies and tactics is being tested with Robin. You're relatively limited, but you can still hold you own and tip the scales to your favor

And this is why Robin is a well-designed character

Couldn't agree more. People are sleeping on Robin.

 

[|ven|]

Alright, I'll try this one more time

For all the **** that people throw at Robin, once you get around his steep learning curve, he's actually good. Robin also gets the benefit of having active representation in tournaments. Only reason why I haven't really ranked Robin that high in my list is because no matter how much you twist it, he still has some crippling issues that severely hurt him. It's something to do with how he deals with pressure. He CANNOT handle pressure well. Characters that can easily bypass his zone are going to be a ****-fest for him. It's not impossible to win, you just need to work hard. He's also the type of character that requires you to think of how you should handle a situation. If there's something that stands out for me with Robin, it's his incredibly solid moveset. He has the answer for almost any situation. Almost any being the key word because he has limited options when he's at close quarters but anyway.... His moveset is versatile. Because of this, I doubt anyone in the cast invalidates his existence and his worst match ups are at worst: An uphill battle. You gotta think with Robin because your mobility sucks and if you **** up with your plans, you're dead. Your ability to develop strategies and tactics is being tested with Robin. You're relatively limited, but you can still hold you own and tip the scales to your favor

And this is why Robin is a well-designed character

Like what Trela said, "But like a tactician, I think my way around these situations."

Much like Zelda, she just needs more people to rep him/her.

 

[Berserker.]

Just wanted to throw it out there because some people are still under the notion that Robin is simple to handle. Maybe the dumb ones are easy to bop but the smart ones that know when to use their moves? No. They're likely to run circles around you if you don't give them enough respect

I'm not a believer of Robin being high tier or whatever. I still think he's a solid mid-tier in the end, but I do worry about his metagame a bit.

 

[Nu~]

Know what, **** it
Time to raise hell

S:
A+:
A:
B+:

B:
C+:
C:

Now tear me to shreds comment!

 

[HeroMystic]

I'd like to hear more on these.

I'm also interested in why Sonic isn't Top 5

Spoiler alert.

Inb4 the reason for sonic not being top 5 is because his landing options are trash.

inb4 it's also because sonic depends on mixups

But here it is:

: Constantly placed as a Top 5 character but I don't see it anymore. Sonic's main weakness is his incredibly poor landing options and over-reliance on his mix-ups. Anyone who can match his ground mobility (Falcon, Fox, Pikachu, Sheik) does noticably well against Sonic and anyone who can reliably knock him in the air tends to have a good MU against him. Sonic can cover his weaknesses with spring and efficient use of Spin Dash, but if the opponent is constantly pressuring him it can be very hard for him to have enough momentum to seal a match. Regardless, he's still a very strong character and I would expect him to keep bringing in results.

Sonic is placed so highly due to his MUs with Diddy, ZSS, and Rosalina, yet he's even with Mario, and gets beaten by Sheik, Luigi, Fox, and maybe Falcon (this needs more development in my eyes). His MU with Megaman isn't all that favorable either.

 

[Macchiato]

honestly in the future, I see nairo dropping everyone except ZSS. Honestly remember how much he used to use D.pit Zelda and Robin? Now he just uses them for situational MUs. He uses ZSS 70% of the matchs. Each other the other characters have weaknesses that hold him back.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Much like Zelda, she just needs more people to rep him/her.

I'm wondering, maybe lack of representation really is Zelda's problem. We only have three players that go to in person tournaments. A lot of the time when I fight certain matchups against skilled players using high tier characters, I never feel at an awful disadvantage. Not to mention Nair0 always places well with her. I don't know, it just feels like we're missing something about her.

 

[Ffamran]

Couldn't agree more. People are sleeping on Robin.

People are sleeping on like 2/3's of the cast if not more. Anyway, whenever I see @ |ven| , I think of Ventus. Quick! Protect our precious vennn!

Edit: The current avatar doesn't help either.

 

[FullMoon]

Again I might think of Sonic as better than he may actually be because Greninja really struggles with him so that skews my perception of him a bit.

I'll concede that he might not be Top 5 though.

 

[|ven|]

I'm wondering, maybe lack of representation really is Zelda's problem. We only have three players that go to in person tournaments. A lot of the time when I fight certain matchups against skilled players using high tier characters, I never feel at an awful disadvantage. Not to mention Nair0 always places well with her. I don't know, it just feels like we're missing something about her.

I think it's just that everyone's so use to her being such a terrible character that she doesn't get the recognition she deserves. That also leads to a lack of people maining her/ even giving her a chance. Also, even when I go to offline tournaments, the commentators are so biased against me and expect me to suck. It warms my heart when I prove them wrong.

People are sleeping on like 2/3's of the cast if not more. Anyway, whenever I see @ |ven| , I think of Ventus. Quick! Protect our precious vennn!

Edit: The current avatar doesn't help either.

I need my salt ice cream oh wait wrong character

 

[Macchiato]

I'm wondering, maybe lack of representation really is Zelda's problem. We only have three players that go to in person tournaments. A lot of the time when I fight certain matchups against skilled players using high tier characters, I never feel at an awful disadvantage. Not to mention Nair0 always places well with her. I don't know, it just feels like we're missing something about her.

I really think that. Also imagine when we finally master teleport canceling. Her weaknesses are manageable too. I say she's solid but needs more rep. Ill try to go to Xanadu in summer If it helps

 

[Trieste SP]

People are sleeping on like 2/3's of the cast if not more.

Unfortunately, this is true. Probably because people want to win when they enter tournaments.

Anyway, whenever I see @ |ven| , I think of Ventus. Quick! Protect our precious vennn!

OMG, why haven't I thought of this.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I really think that. Also imagine when we finally master teleport canceling. Her weaknesses are manageable too. I say she's solid but needs more rep. Ill try to go to Xanadu in summer If it helps

Yeah I've been working on TCing and it's sooo helpful for helping escape a disadvantage. Not to mention she'll probably get buffed in 1.06 as well so she'll only get better. And ooh gorl you might go to Xanadu? That's awesome

 

[Berserker.]

I'm watching some TGC videos right now because they just released the rest of it (just now)

 

[Lavani]

Only reason why I haven't really ranked Robin that high in my list is because no matter how much you twist it, he still has some crippling issues that severely hurt him. It's something to do with how he deals with pressure. He CANNOT handle pressure well. Characters that can easily bypass his zone are going to be a ****-fest for him.

So...the majority of the upper tier?

I'm not going to disagree that the character is versatile and honest, but being an honest character doesn't get you far in sm4sh. I spent the first ~4 months of the game thinking Robin was an upper half character because of how strong levin sword hits are and how potent Arcfire and Thunder theoretically were for keeping opponents out, but the character moves slower than heavies while having less power, range, and weight than heavies; an exploitable recovery; a charged killing projectile that occupies the same input as her keepaway projectiles...I can certainly see where she does things, but my opinion of the character has only dropped over recent months.

Spoiler alert.



But here it is:


Sonic is placed so highly due to his MUs with Diddy, ZSS, and Rosalina, yet he's even with Mario, and gets beaten by Sheik, Luigi, Fox, and maybe Falcon (this needs more development in my eyes). His MU with Megaman isn't all that favorable either.

And all this adds up to a #4~6 character in my eyes, because his reward when he does get in is insane and he has powerful kill throws (potent throws all around, really) while being the fastest character in the game. I could see above him, but I don't see him being absolutely excluded from top 5 potential and I certainly don't see him below .

 

[Berserker.]

So...the majority of the upper tier?

I'm not going to disagree that the character is versatile and honest, but being an honest character doesn't get you far in sm4sh. I spent the first ~4 months of the game thinking Robin was an upper half character because of how strong levin sword hits are and how potent Arcfire and Thunder theoretically were for keeping opponents out, but the character moves slower than heavies while having less power, range, and weight than heavies; an exploitable recovery; a charged killing projectile that occupies the same input as her keepaway projectiles...I can certainly see where she does things, but my opinion of the character has only dropped over recent months.

My opinion of him has also dropped. I (think) I put him at my lower half of the list, but I still think anyone can make him work for as long as you work hard. I'm not convinced that he's low tier

Yet

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

People are sleeping on like 2/3's of the cast if not more. Anyway, whenever I see @ |ven| , I think of Ventus. Quick! Protect our precious vennn!

Edit: The current avatar doesn't help either.

Where is this gif from?