Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I will cry if Rosalina is nerfed. After the 1.0.4 nerfs, she has been fine. She's a difficult character to use effectively, so the fact that she's good doesn't mean she should be nerfed. There are a lot more characters that need to be balanced more urgently than Rosalina does. Cancer, Hoo Hah, and maybe Sheik come to mind as characters that need nerfs. Puff, ZELDA, Samus, and Bowser Jr. could really use some buffs, but idk if Sakutena is generous enough to buff anyone now.

tl;dr Rosalina doesn't need nerfs so stop being a *****.

Dat bias
I agree though, Rosa doesn't need be nerfed
Luma does

 

[BJN39]

Y'know, something they COULD do since no-free fall Din's seems unlikely (Unless like, 5 other moves also lose their free fall.) they could make the release animation able to grab ledges like sheik's burst grenade release animation ledge grabs. It would be fair imo, and reduce the amount of SDs significantly as well as possibly make the move more interesting. :3

 

[OmegaSorin]

Rosie isn't that bad to be completely honest, HOWEVER. I don't think Sheik needs bad nerfs either, the only two characters I think that really need nerfs are Villager and Diddy, Both of which have horribly unfun and broken tactics to win.

Villager's Ledge Game

And Diddy's **** you Whamo-Bambo combo's.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Real talk though
All this is hope and speculation when we all know that a couple of minor changes will be all that happens

 

[Lorde]

Dat bias
I agree though, Rosa doesn't need be nerfed
Lima does

Okay, maybe I'm a little biased.

But she's the best Mario character ever created (and one of Nintendo's best characters in general), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I'm decently worried about this patch.

All I think NEEDS to happen is Diddy doing less damage as well as not having guaranteed follow ups on his throws. Also less kill moves. As he is a metagame killer.

As for wants:

Sonic should get less kill moves. His hit and run style is fine, but with that meaning he shouldn't kill as easily. He has to rack up the damage.

Sheik is decently fine, I can't really pinpoint a thing that needs nerfing.

Zelda needs buffs like her moves continuing to connect.

Bowser Jr needs either buffs or an overhaul. His moveset is pretty clunky, laggy, and not worthwhile.

As for curiosity:
Rosalina is complicated. In theory, she deserves to be strong as a character because she is complicated. She doesn't need a nerf. A nerf could be very bad for her. Rosalina is fragile and Luma can get killed easily and even as soon as he comes back.

She could use power shift or something. Maybe make Luma even more powerful while making Rosalina weaker. Something along those lines. Make Up-air not kill as early, but make it deal slightly more damage. Rosalina's uptilt needs a buff, as there is few reasons to use it but maybe make d-tilt do less damage to make F-tilt more valuable.

I'm also worried they might patch out Lunar landing. Which is a cool little tech Rosalina can do.

 

[Soul.]

Whatever the **** 1.0.6 is, again, don't nerf Pikachu.
QA's description on the Tips says "it has low recovery on the ground," meaning it was made to be this way.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I say leave the high tiers alone (sans Diddy and Sonic) and buff the low tiers

Okay, maybe I'm a little biased.

But she's the best Mario character ever created (and one of Nintendo's best characters in general), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Woah slow down there gorl
One of the best is stretching it
She's been in how many games?
whats so special about her personality and story?
Mario games push out a lot of flat characters

 

[Antonykun]

Hyper voice

Wow I just realized every pokemon has a projectile neutralB

Water Shuriken
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball
Thunder Jolt
Flamethrower
Becomes a projectile

 

[Lavani]

is it time to type patch notes again already

I'll take it seriously this time and post what I'd like to see out of 1.0.6 for real:

Spoiler

- Uair: startup increased to frame 6~8, +5~10 frames end lag
- Fair: Hitbox size reduced, speed reduced, end lag increased
- Dtilt: Hitbox size reduced and/or end lag increased
・Monkey Flip: idk what should change with this but I feel like something should


+ Dthrow reverted to 1.0.0 specs
+ Gordos aren't reflected by projectiles


- Kong Cyclone: Autocancel removed
(alternately: + Spinning Kong: Autocancel added)


+ Water Shuriken reverted to 1.0.0


+ Jolt Haymaker: Reverted to 1.0.0 specs
? Revert jab to 1.0.0 specs? It was kind of ridiculous, but his character archetype kind of demands ridiculous to work.


・Mashing required for jumpless cyclone reduced


+ Reduced end lag and increased damage on some things, idk what but it's obvious the characters need better numbers.
+ Dancing Blade's combo connects properly


・Reflect and Counter swapped with Super Speed and Lightweight on her default moveset


- Add lag to Quick Attack...somewhere.
? Maybe reduced knockback on Heavy Skull Bash? I'm not actually convinced it's an issue though.


- Reduced BKB on sweetspot utilt/uair


- +5 frames end lag on needles; maybe slightly lower needle charge rate?


- Reduced damage+hitbox size on spin dashes
- Reduced kill power on bthrow


- Extreme Balloon Trip balloons vanish instead of exploding when the move is reused with balloons active.


+ Phantom charge can be held. Phantom blind spot fixed.
+ Din's doesn't put her in helpless
+ Fsmash/usmash link properly
+ Lightning Kick sourspots made safe on hit (ideally via BKB increase), damage increased to 6%
+ Nair landing lag reduced significantly (a move like that should not have 20+ frames of landing lag)
+ Shorthop bair (and fair?) autocancels


- Boost Kick: reduced knockback

Some other characters could use changes too (buffs to other low tiers mainly) but idk what they really need to be better so I didn't bother including them.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, maybe I'm a little biased.

But she's the best Mario character ever created (and one of Nintendo's best characters in general), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[Soul.]

is it time to type patch notes again already

I'll take it seriously this time and post what I'd like to see out of 1.0.6 for real:



- Add lag to Quick Attack...somewhere.

****ing dammit

 

[Spirst]

I personally think Rosalina is a dry and boring character like most of the Mario characters and I don't see why she's shoved into everything. I don't care about her much at all, no.

1.0.0 shurikens would be nice. I understand hydro pump and usmash but shurikens seemed fine. If we're fixing smashes that don't link properly, gotta add Duck Hunt to there too.

Quick attack should probably get some kind of added frames of lag, yeah. As it is, it's kinda dumb. A lot of patch stuff I see is "I main ____ but ____ doesn't need a nerf."

 

[Soul.]

I don't know how could they nerf Quick Attack. Startup lag perhaps, but recovery lag on the ground.... no.

 

[Rickster]

They should take away Luma's dumb set knock back moves that KO at like 30%. Sorry, but that is Diddy level dumbness to me.

And yeah nerf Diddy blahblah the usual stuff.

I don't get the Sheik nerfs though. She's supposed to be one of the fastest characters in the game, yet also one of the weakest damage wise. Her lack of good KO moves balance her out, IMO.

If she is nerfed again though, I can see Bouncing Fish having less range and Fsmash getting KB nerfs. I don't think she deserves it though.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think Rosalina is a dry and boring character like most of the Mario characters and I don't see why she's shoved into everything. I don't care about her much at all, no.

1.0.0 shurikens would be nice. I understand hydro pump and usmash but shurikens seemed fine. If we're fixing smashes that don't link properly, gotta add Duck Hunt to there too.

Quick attack should probably get some kind of added frames of lag, yeah. As it is, it's kinda dumb. A lot of patch stuff I see is "I main ____ but ____ doesn't need a nerf."

I like you.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

- Uair: startup increased to frame 6~8, +5~10 frames end lag
- Fair: Hitbox size reduced, speed reduced, end lag increased
- Dtilt: Hitbox size reduced and/or end lag increased
・Monkey Flip: idk what should change with this but I feel like something should

While hitbox reduction could go a long way, Sakurai seems to want to sell this character as someone with impressive range. Speed and end lag sound more plausible.

- Reduced BKB on sweetspot utilt/uair


- Extreme Balloon Trip balloons vanish instead of exploding when the move is reused with balloons active.

I'd be totally ok with these. Rosalina's up air doesn't need to kill ridiculously early. She has other fantastic kill options.

Extreme Balloon trip is fine as a shorter recovery but harder to gimp type custom so seeing that nerf would actually be refreshing. I actually like the custom otherwise and would really prefer not to have the annoying effect of exploding the balloons when you use your up b again.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Hello friends! how are you all doing today?

 

[Lavani]

While hitbox reduction could go a long way, Sakurai seems to want to sell this character as someone with impressive range. Speed and end lag sound more plausible.

No I don't even care

this should not be allowed:

 

[Spirst]

No I don't even care

this should not be allowed:

oh..

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Hello friends! how are you all doing today?

They are all apparently hating on the Rosie. Again.

Spoiler

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Bias will always stain character discussion
>_>

 

[warionumbah2]

cannot get buffed on his aerial end lag or else he'll dominate the footsies(and meta). Lavani if you were to patch this game you'll simply make him dominant by giving him those buffs, same goes for give him his sh aerials and watch how he'll sky rocket because then he has a wall of disjoints at his disposal. Without the end lag on his sh bair he can turn a once hard to land combo starter into a safe kill setup.

They took Sh aerials from these 2 for a goddamn reason.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

No I don't even care

this should not be allowed:

What the?!?

I have several questions.

Why is that a disjoint?
Why does it extend that far past his legs?
Why is this thing?
Who's bright idea was it to think that is ok?


Yeeeeeaaaah. Forget what I said. Fair needs a huge nerf. It should really only be his legs.

 

[Soul.]

Even if Diddy's down throw gets nerfed he still has up throw. lol. PM Diddy uses uthrow uair and it's nothing in that thing. In this game it's a problem.
Most people complain about Pikachu just because of Quick Attack and it's honestly ****ing dumb. Pika's hurtbox is extended when it uses the move. Use that to your advantage.
If that gets nerfed, then I hope it isn't grounded recovery lag.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

They are all apparently hating on the Rosie. Again.

That's alright, they can be jealous. Haters to the left! :3

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Bias will always stain character discussion
>_>

At the same time, because we use our characters so much, we know their strengths and weaknesses better then most.

Bias only goes so far.

Dabuz thinks Rosalina is 8th on a tier list while most people agree she is more top 5 for example. I do agree with him if he is right about top tiers being a problem for her. If she can't handle them well then it limits her potential. Bear in mind he is the best Rosalina.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About balance, am I the only one who think that Captain Falcon's hitbox are strangely disjointed?

 

[Lavani]

cannot get buffed on his aerial end lag or else he'll dominate the footsies(and meta). Lavani if you were to patch this game you'll simply making him dominant by giving him those buffs

I think you're making assumptions about my suggestions that go past what I had in mind, because we've had both Melee and Brawl to see what a character with both range and speed is like. Mainly I was thinking less end lag on utilt and Dancing Blade and more damage on...well, really he could get the 1.0.4 Shulk treatment with his damage output.

I have several questions.

Why is that a disjoint?
Why does it extend that far past his legs?
Why is this thing?
Who's bright idea was it to think that is ok?

Because
Because
Because

 

[Lorde]

Woah slow down there gorl
One of the best is stretching it
She's been in how many games?
whats so special about her personality and story?
Mario games push out a lot of flat characters

She's the best Mario character because all of the others are lame and bland. Mario is the generic hero, Luigi is the reluctant hero, Peach is the damsel in distress, Wario is the antihero, Yoshi is cute but lol, Boswer is the stereotypical villain, etc. Being the best Mario character isn't really a big accomplishment, but w/e, she still wins the title.

While Rosalina isn't the most relevant, I cannot see why that detracts from her being one of the best. The number of games she's been in doesn't really matter, imo. Her story is adorable and heartbreaking. Sure, it's a typical sob story, but she's the first Mario character to actually have depth. She's reserved because she's been hurt before and doesn't want to go through anything like that again. She has learned to suppress her emotions because she doesn't want to get attached and then go through more heartbreak. Off of the top of my head, I cannot think of a Nintendo character with Rosalina's depth. Pokemon's characters are lol, tLoZ has Midna and that's all I can think of for it, I already went over Mario, and I can't think of any other big Nintendo franchises. I really connect with Rosalina, so that's why I like her so much.

I'll say this right now: the number of appearances in games ≠ quality of the character.

 

[Furret]

God no I hate daisy.

and so the night of ballot announcement came
The war council meeting had drag on for hours
The council had reached it's verdict and
tomorrow they would cast votes for Daisy,
however one rebuttal came about this verdict
It was Macchiato taking his final stand,
After his frustrated rant about daisy the war council responded
"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

what is that from?

They are all apparently hating on the Rosie. Again.

Spoiler

no we are just enjoy our savior daisy and pls don't just use the pic the rest of the internet uses have some class...oh nvm you're fine, I shouldn't expect any from rosalina

 

[Soul.]

what is that from?

Mario Golf: World Tour for the 3DS

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I actually incredibly dislike both her model and her victory animations in Mario golf world tour. They usually look a lot better then that and there is just something unsettling about it.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

See, Rosalina is interesting because of the storybook. She was a young child who gave up/lost everything and grew into a wize adult with a role to play and the skills to play it. She is the guardian of the cosmos and the mother of the lumas. She has lost and gained a lot and came out of it a calm, understanding, motherly figure who has accepted the universe and life with all it's faults and does her best to protect that balance.

I think she is a unique character in the Mario series. Their wasn't someone like her until...well her. She brought something new to table.

 

[Macchiato]

Toad is cool because mushroom

 

[Lavani]

About balance, am I the only one who think that Captain Falcon's hitbox are strangely disjointed?

 

[Fernosaur]

God no I hate daisy.

Thank you for reminding me you're cool

I think you're making assumptions about my suggestions that go past what I had in mind, because we've had both Melee and Brawl to see what a character with both range and speed is like. Mainly I was thinking less end lag on utilt and Dancing Blade and more damage on...well, really he could get the 1.0.4 Shulk treatment with his damage output.


Because
Because
Because

At the very least, Marth needs more damage on his tippers. He needs more reward out of them . Poor little girly boi

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

She's the best Mario character because all of the others are lame and bland. Mario is the generic hero, Luigi is the reluctant hero, Peach is the damsel in distress, Wario is the antihero, Yoshi is cute but lol, Boswer is the stereotypical villain, etc. Being the best Mario character isn't really a big accomplishment, but w/e, she still wins the title.

While Rosalina isn't the most relevant, I cannot see why that detracts from her being one of the best. The number of games she's been in doesn't really matter, imo. Her story is adorable and heartbreaking. Sure, it's a typical sob story, but she's the first Mario character to actually have depth. She's reserved because she's been hurt before and doesn't want to go through anything like that again. She has learned to suppress her emotions because she doesn't want to get attached and then go through more heartbreak. Off of the top of my head, I cannot think of a Nintendo character with Rosalina's depth. Pokemon's characters are lol, tLoZ has Midna and that's all I can think of for it, I already went over Mario, and I can't think of any other big Nintendo franchises. I really connect with Rosalina, so that's why I like her so much.

I'll say this right now: the number of appearances in games ≠ quality of the character.

Oh you said off the top of your head
Rant was incoming
Good points though
I don't like or dislike Rosalina, I simply don't care for her

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I knew that the Jab last hit was stupid.

F-Smash and the dash attack to some degree also have a great range, compare to Falcon's body.

This is so unfair, compared to Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Deleted member]

I think this little girl has become FE:IF's most famous character.

ONII-CHAN!