Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Kyle B]

Mkay! Time to make a long list of awl us Zelda long-sufferers players!

Lemme know if you wanna be added or subtracted. (In case you don't really play Zelda.)

Rion
Kyokoro Pamuyo
Aerodrome
Ed!! (#HBC Scary)
Mocha
Rizen
BJN39
SBphiloz4
Hyrule Candy
JigglyZelda003
Rickster
GameAngel64
ZerudaHime
Nairo
Aleate
Alphatron
Phenomiracle
evmaxy54
Oh Snap
ZombieBran
Toadallstar2
Micstar615

Definitely misseT some people.

Respectfully excluded Fujin, who CLAIMS Zelda is dead to him.

We should just have a Zelda Finder at this point...

Add me to the list, I just like Zelda's playstyle to much to play any other character with as much determination.
Edit: Like the Sig I made?

 

[Kyle B]

Eauxkay, I'll evaluate this

Jab : Incorrect on the startup. It's the same as Brawl. Connection is better though, and the farthest hit-box's final hit is more helpful in size, complementing the better mechanics on SDI and hit-angles.

Ftilt : Incorrect. It's actually weaker than Brawl's as a result of a 1% damage decrease from Brawl.

Dtilt : Definitely different, as the hit-box ONLY hits upwards now, eventually letting your opponent escape after a couple Dtilts. Not to mention the large damage nerf. In Brawl, it actually METEORED on grounded opponents, causing that lengthly stun animation.

Utilt : Purely nerfed or buffed based on opinion. Having all around worse upward KO options hurts the fact this can't KO till 180%. But dat 0.7% damage buff in 1.0.4 DOE.

Dash Attack : Reworked. The hit-boxes are placed differently, and the sweetspot is smaller, but arguably more powerful. Everything else is roughly the smae enough.

Fsmash : You're right here. Almost literally identical as far as use goes. Anything about end lag increase is probs placebo.

Dsmash : Right 100%. I won't go into details, but yeah. Overall terribly hurt. Still has its uses though, as it's still fast, and has its low angle.

Usmash : Yup. Startup, range, reliability, KO prowess were all made worse. It's pretty sad tbh.

NAir : Nerfed. Worse damage, auto-cancel window is nearly nonexistent, and the landing lag is nearly doubled. Not to mention it now lacks central hit-boxes during the muliti-hits, giving it that blind-spot feeling I think @Mocha had mentioned when playing the WiiU version. Even after all of that though,the move is still her most reliable aerial.... LOL.

FAir/BAir : IDK 'bout the hit-box on sweetspot comparison-wise, but yeah, the rest is true: Increased startup, increased endlag by an extreme 25+ frames, increased landing lag, reduced sweetspot Base KB, and retains many weird and bad designs present everywhere else on the move.

UAir : Yeah, a 30 KB growth nerf to be exact. I still am unsure on the hit-box. I think it's roughly the same as Brawl. IDK where the hit-box whoo-haa came from tbh.

DAir : I suppose this is a move I will accept as buffed. 2 less landing lag frames, a stronger sourspot that does 5%, sweetspot can hit grounded opponents and has a larger hit-box. You're pretty much right here.

Dtilt does not meteor anymore.......why the _____!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just found that out yesterday in brawl........seriously wheres Sakurai's email, need to Google translate some complaints.
What language is that stuff?

Still don't understand why any move of Zelda's needed to be nerfed, did they really think she would be op if she had 90% of all that?
-nvm probably thought brawl Zelda was op needed to nerf options to kill that where effective and easy to pull off in favor of something you could both
a. Here very loudly b. Shield c. dodge d.use any multi-hit moves e. down-air if timed f. grab possibly?
I like Zelda and all but I agree she is bad, but skill can make that up.
But I still have no ideal why they changed most things with Zelda.....May we recommend a mental health examination for the entire team?
If only there was not a language barrier....Do any pro Japanese/whatever-language-Sakurai-uses play Zelda? Probably not :/
My only issue is that Zelda is played so little, no one sees issues but like 300 people out of thousands, so no one seems to know how to buff her or because they never fight her don't know the match-up and think she's good, because this game has a lot of good balance (which covers up some things that are not balanced because of generalization)
I'm getting really tired of playing low tier characters because there my play-style, why should I and others be punished for liking a certain way of play, is that not why they nerfed PM Zelda (which even then almost eclipses camp style game-play)

Just hate my characters being nerfed because it's NEVER necessary. I don't like top tier characters usually.
PS: This is just a general rant to the general public, these forums can be really depressing and frustrating, I will come back tomorrow to finish reading the next 20 pages and whatever is added today

Edit: Ok sorry for double post, not very often I actually comment of forums XD.

 

[Rizen]

@ Kyle B next time edit your post instead of double posting btw.
In Brawl Zelda started something like 17 tier list places higher iirc. Then people learned how to play the game and found competitive ways to shut her down. She's the kind of character who seemed good because she wrecked scrubs. So she probably was "balanced" based on that, which is stupid.

 

[Salad Bowl]

OMG I can't decide if I wanna main jigglypuff or peach. Ugh my life struggle

 

[evmaxy54]

Main Jiggz. Peach is too mainstream

 

[McKnightlíght]

That's what I do as Fox. But for whatever reason the only move my teammates can ever kill with is F-Smash (literally inches before they hit the ground).

After hours of playing that one, my friend and I learned to no overthink it. Stand on the far platforms and just tap your attack button, the Game & Watches will die.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Laaaaate, but obligatory Agnès post.

 

[Alphatron]

OMG I can't decide if I wanna main jigglypuff or peach. Ugh my life struggle

Porque los dos?

 

[Alacion]

Bravely Default was a great game until you had to repeat the same thing a million times. Dunno who's bright idea that was...

 

[Alphatron]

I have yet to play it. There are a ton of RPGs I need to get to anyway. Still haven't beaten Final fantasy VII, shin Megami Tensei 4, Persona 4, Etrian Oddysey 3, final fantasy III DS, Ys: Oath in Felghana, Ys: Celceta no Trees (forgot the English title), and Chrono Cross.

Having a backlog of RPGs isn't much fun because I take a century to beat a game.

Edit: Hyrule Candy got banned? We've lost a good sister...

 

[JigglyZelda003]

was Candy banned because of age requirements? Last I checked she didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Rickster]

There's an age requirement?
I think she was 13 iirc.

With her sassy gifs and ban, we have a mini-Fujin in the making.

 

[evmaxy54]

Sisters, let's all come together & cry to Swedish screamo for our fallen sister

R.I.P. HC ;_;

 

[Oh Snap]

Oh no... not Hyrule Candy!

We've lost our only optimistic Zelda main ;[

 

[SBphiloz4]

RIP Hyrule Bonbon. Your mini-Fuujin gif usage and opinions that Zelda is mid tier will be extremely missed.

Well, other than saying that Zelda beats Link in this game. IDK how is that even possible--

 

[Rizen]

How the heck was HC banned? I've seen much, much more questionable posting be tolerated.
Speaking of Fujin, is he still around?

 

[2004Zilla]

Looks like our girl has flippers

Evolution's a *****.

EDIT: My candy!

 

[Oh Snap]

Candy was banned for advocating that Zelda was anything higher than bottom tier ;[

 

[2004Zilla]

Candy was banned for advocating that Zelda was anything higher than bottom tier ;[

A crime punishable by death.

 

[Oh Snap]

-nod nod-

He was a brave, courageous soul. However, such blasphemy shall not go unpunished.

#bottomtierprincess5eva

 

[BJN39]

@Aerodrome can you go around on the mod boards or wherever they drink their red tea and find out how HC got banned?

 

[Princess Toady]

Candy was banned ? :-(

 

[Rizen]

I think the Banned (6 points) is just a title people enter and doesn't mean anything.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

no banned (6points) is real. I like how HCandy was banned but A2 wasn't lol.

 

[Princess Toady]

Yeah, it's weird. Maybe he can make an alt and come back to us so these boards don't get too negative, lol.

 

[BJN39]

I think the Banned (6 points) is just a title people enter and doesn't mean anything.

Nah, Banned (6 points) means you got enough infractions (Or one fatal infraction.) equating to 6+ infraction points, which must be the temp ban line for SB.

Some people like to use premium to make their under title a fake "banned (6 points)" such a user I've seen around the SSB4 boards, or gimpyfish who does "banned (60 points)" AFAIK, if you don't remove it before premium runs out, then it stays that title.

IDK how long a 6 point ban lasts though.

 

[Meek Moths]

atm i got 5 points and im scared

 

[micstar615]

Not the only optimistic Zelda main getting banned xD

I think many people here agree that Zelda is low tier at most, but do you guys feel she is more viable now then she was in previous installments? Melee Zelda was very incomplete and only had LK's going for her, while Brawl Zelda felt more complete but the mechanics of Brawl were a massive disadvantage for her.

 

[Meek Moths]

i personally think she is viable, but to tell the truth i never attended any tourny, and i probably never will as they don't do tournys in my country ever, so my only way to play is 4G

and by 4G standards (which is, in the end, hands down, the most played smash 4 feature right now (thus i would even say more important than tournys)) zelda is viable.

 

[BJN39]

Not the only optimistic Zelda main getting banned xD

I think many people here agree that Zelda is low tier at most, but do you guys feel she is more viable now then she was in previous installments? Melee Zelda was very incomplete and only had LK's going for her, while Brawl Zelda felt more complete but the mechanics of Brawl were a massive disadvantage for her.

I'd say this was her most viable showing, as far as Sakurai's games go.

People swear by Melee Zelda being the best, and this may be true, but in her game, she was literally hopeless against a few chars, and couldn't bet on beating the other good characters.

Comparatively, only one char (IMO) really hurts Zelda in SSB4, and every other bad MU seems less so uphill than they used to in Melee AND Brawl.

Though, the game is still young, so whether that will hold is still not certain. I, for now, will believe that Zelda will be able to compete better than ever in SSB4.

 

[Oh Snap]

Unfortunately, no.

As the game evolves and the number of 'viable' characters narrows down to a small handful of mid-high/high/top tiers-- Zelda won't stand a chance in a competitive setting. In Melee she had her kicks going for her; she had her smashes in Brawl and ridiculous KO potential. But in this game all we have going for us is Farore's Wind, which honestly, isn't all that big of a threat.

She just feels so... vulnerable.

So yeah. It doesn't seem like Zelda's gonna be a viable character in this game either. Probably the least viable out of the three.

 

[Princess Toady]

To be honest I feel Melee Zelda was her best showing... Now I just can't do anything.

 

[meleebrawler]

Unfortunately, no.

As the game evolves and the number of 'viable' characters narrows down to a small handful of mid-high/high/top tiers-- Zelda won't stand a chance in a competitive setting. In Melee she had her kicks going for her; she had her smashes in Brawl and ridiculous KO potential. But in this game all we have going for us is Farore's Wind, which honestly, isn't all that big of a threat.

She just feels so... vulnerable.

So yeah. It doesn't seem like Zelda's gonna be a viable character in this game either. Probably the least viable out of the three.

Kicks still work well if you can land them, you just can't
throw them out recklessly anymore, which is a general
trend for moves like this in Smash 4. Just look at Falcon's
knee, or Falco's Dair. Basically, no power move can be without
risk.

If you feel vulnerable as Zelda, you likely aren't using love enough.

 

[Alacion]

BJN39 has a point though. I can't possibly see Diddy/Zelda or Sheik/Zelda to be as bad as Brawl Meta Knight/Zelda or Melee Sheik/Fox/Captain Falcon/[Insert char here] vs. Zelda.

In Melee, Zelda's saving grace is that she can actually live long-ish since it's really hard to combo her. She's also kinda like Peach in that crouch cancel dsmash is godly. Sheik you just can't deal with her fair/nair so you transform and chain grab her.

Still though, in a competitive setting Melee Zelda has seen the most success compared to Brawl/Smash 4.

 

[Oh Snap]

Definitely! Melee Zelda is a personal favourite.

F/B-air all day errreeday.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I think melee Zelda is over hyped cause she had janky kick combos and brawl Zelda had a worse ranking than her. But that's honestly not enough to make me feel melee Zelda was better, she was just good for her melee ranking, which was still low.

brawl Zelda had problems, but she had power that honestly made up for some of her issues and outside of brawls engine she would have been fine, its like jigglypuff in brawl, the engine didn't support her.
I think this game is the best engine for Zelda, but sm4sh Zelda feels so restricted and confined it's hard to see her go anywhere but down. Especially when people start playing more defensive.

 

[Alacion]

I dunno unless Brawl/Smash 4 Zelda can take top 2 in a regional 100+ entrant event... pretty sure Melee Zelda takes the cake. Zelda ended up losing to a god in the end and let's face it you can probably count the number of Fox players on one hand that can take a god down.

 

[micstar615]

I wonder how her meta will develop in this game, with Zelda I feel every iteration presents one step forward yet one step back with the character.

Brawl Zelda fixed a lot of Zelda's main issues from melee yet axed her LK niche completely

SSB4 fixed SDI, gave her better recovery and increased her air and ground speed but made her attacks less consistent, and more laggy. However I do think she has the most room to grow in this game, the mechanics favor her moreso than previous iterations and her MUs aren't hopeless like previous iterations, at least that's how it seems atm.

 

[Oh Snap]

Kicks still work well if you can land them, you just can't
throw them out recklessly anymore, which is a general
trend for moves like this in Smash 4. Just look at Falcon's
knee, or Falco's Dair. Basically, no power move can be without
risk.

If you feel vulnerable as Zelda, you likely aren't using love enough.

I love Zelda with all my heart and soul <333

 

[Meek Moths]

btw have you noticed how horribly laggy are the kicks compared to brawl? samurai probably felt they were way too powerful and made zelda a good character so he decided to make landing lag and ending lag rly long. especially the ending lag. in brawl you could do like two kicks in a short hop but now you can only do one and then you will get the huge landing lag because it doesnt autocancel