Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[ぱみゅ]

I knew Waifucina was bad, but japanese are just..... wow....

 

[ZombieBran]

Well the list is based on results rather than endless theory so I respect it in that sense. There is a problem with less popular characters and representation in Japan (Zelda, Samus, Ike, etc) and it feels like some of the lower characters were ranked randomly.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Tbh I actually agree with zeldas spot on the list

 

[Fernosaur]

What do you guys do to keep your Smash skillz fresh? Are you all relegated to online only? Or do you have constant chances to play live?

I have no one to play and I get terribad delay online . I think I'm gonna end up dropping Sm4sh at some point.

 

[GameAngel64]

 

[Alacion]

What do you guys do to keep your Smash skillz fresh? Are you all relegated to online only? Or do you have constant chances to play live?

I have no one to play and I get terribad delay online . I think I'm gonna end up dropping Sm4sh at some point.

I play online against local players once in a while. Other than that I practise against CPUs and try to play offline with people as much as possible.

 

[Phenomiracle]

What do you guys do to keep your Smash skillz fresh? Are you all relegated to online only? Or do you have constant chances to play live?

I have no one to play and I get terribad delay online . I think I'm gonna end up dropping Sm4sh at some point.

For Glory. Fiancée. Friends who'll be over plenty after finals. Two little sisters. Lvl 7/8 CPUs (Lvl 9ers can get you into some awful habits)

I'm really sorry to hear that. How about going to tourneys and making some friends there? Worst comes to worst, you can always play us/join a skype group up here.

 

[Rickster]

What do you guys do to keep your Smash skillz fresh? Are you all relegated to online only? Or do you have constant chances to play live?

I have no one to play and I get terribad delay online . I think I'm gonna end up dropping Sm4sh at some point.

I only have For Glory. I live in the middle of nowhere, and everyone at my school hates Nintendo for some reason.

I've actually never played a serious local match before. Not even in Brawl.

Tis' a sad life.

Wow, that has more horizontal range than I thought it did. I might use it more after seeing that.

 

[Phenomiracle]

everyone at my school hates Nintendo for some reason. .

Same, but everyone I know has quite the soft spot for Smash. Surely it's the same for you, yeah?

Then again, a lot of them are scrubby. They hate it when I pick Zelda.

 

[Fernosaur]

For Glory. Fiancée. Friends who'll be over plenty after finals. Two little sisters. Lvl 7/8 CPUs (Lvl 9ers can get you into some awful habits)

I'm really sorry to hear that. How about going to tourneys and making some friends there? Worst comes to worst, you can always play us/join a skype group up here.

Thanks for the invite!

Hahaha, aww, I wish I could play with my siblings, but all of them actually live in different states and only one has a Wii U XD. I do have some friends here, but mostly we're all pretty busy with work and stuff to hang out during the weekdays, and my boyfriend isn't enough into Smash to actually play me more "seriously". He actually always ends up getting angry if we play 1 on 1 because I always win :'D.

Regarding tourneys, I tried going into the scene at some point when Brawl was still alive and was... sourly disappointed. The players in this city made it feel like some sort of highschool with tons of unnecessary drama and **** talking 100% of the time, although I guess it's gonna be like that everywhere. I just feel I am a little bit too old for that kinda ****.

I'll prolly have to learn to live with delay online and follow your skype group advice~

I'm a little curious. What are these bad habits you talk about concerning Lvl 9s?

Edit: @ GameAngel64 That's super confusing. I was playing with some dude online earlier tonight and I swear I FW much closer than that but didn't hit. I just don't understand Zelda sometimes :'D

I only have For Glory. I live in the middle of nowhere, and everyone at my school hates Nintendo for some reason.

I've actually never played a serious local match before. Not even in Brawl.

Tis' a sad life.

We're actually not that far apart geographically. I live in Monterrey, Mexico, which is super close to the border. We could try and see how bad or normal our connection is :'D.

 

[Dinotard]

Zelda, Queen of Hyrule, Leader of the Sages, Goddess of Hylia herself reincarnated has returned to the smash series.
Rosalina stepped onto the scene and thinking she was all cute.
Showing up in her baby blue, k mart night gown that was 3 sized too big, with her beanie baby Luma, outdated emo hairstyle and tacky earrings THINKING she was going to take the #1 magical girl spot in the smash series.
Little did we know that 8 days later we would have the one, true original magical girl return.
And with one swift snatch.
Rosalina's wig was gone...
​

​

Just this Alone made me want to play Zelda.

 

[Rickster]

Same, but everyone I know has quite the soft spot for Smash. Surely it's the same for you, yeah?

Then again, a lot of them are scrubby. They hate it when I pick Zelda.

Lol no, they all hate Nintendo. Heck, most of them don't even know what Smash is LOL.

But....it is a small school in the middle of nowhere. We have 600 students max (counting EVERYONE). This is a place where Call of Duty and Minecraft reign supreme, unfortunately.

Thanks for the invite!

Hahaha, aww, I wish I could play with my siblings, but all of them actually live in different states and only one has a Wii U XD. I do have some friends here, but mostly we're all pretty busy with work and stuff to hang out during the weekdays, and my boyfriend isn't enough into Smash to actually play me more "seriously". He actually always ends up getting angry if we play 1 on 1 because I always win :'D.

Regarding tourneys, I tried going into the scene at some point when Brawl was still alive and was... sourly disappointed. The players in this city made it feel like some sort of highschool with tons of unnecessary drama and **** talking 100% of the time, although I guess it's gonna be like that everywhere. I just feel I am a little bit too old for that kinda ****.

I'll prolly have to learn to live with delay online and follow your skype group advice~

I'm a little curious. What are these bad habits you talk about concerning Lvl 9s?

Edit: @ GameAngel64 That's super confusing. I was playing with some dude online earlier tonight and I swear I FW much closer than that but didn't hit. I just don't understand Zelda sometimes :'D



We're actually not that far apart geographically. I live in Monterrey, Mexico, which is super close to the border. We could try and see how bad or normal our connection is :'D.

We could always try it. I have a pretty stable connection, so it should be alright, if yours works well.
Oh, and I actually live quite close the the Oklahoma border, if that gives you an idea of my real location lol.

 

[BJN39]

Very good Elevator there! ^ ^ I wanna have this somewhere on my Fairy fountain thread. Maybe it can be the preview for a "FW elevator" section.

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Rickster I tend to forget Texas is massive, hahaha. But alright! Let's give it a shot sometime.

 

[GameAngel64]

Very good Elevator there! ^ ^ I wanna have this somewhere on my Fairy fountain thread. Maybe it can be the preview for a "FW elevator" section.

Glad you like it. Feel free to use.

 

[ZombieBran]

What do you guys do to keep your Smash skillz fresh? Are you all relegated to online only? Or do you have constant chances to play live?

Mostly offline. But not with great players, really. Just my boyfriend and his friends. Sometimes one of my friends come over and he's very good (in comparison to me anyway).

I play online but FG isn't very fun to me. I have a decent winrate (86% or so) but I love local multiplayer, what can I say.

 

[Rickster]

So this elevator talk reminded me of something...

Dthrow>Elevator
I've gotten this to true combo (well it made the number thing go to 7) in training, but it's very finicky. An aerial disapper doesn't send them as high as the grounded one, so you have to tack on a lot more damage for it to work. I remember seeing a gif or it being done perfectly, but I'll have to dig it up again.

Anyways, this could be really useful, but incredibly risky to pull off. If we master this (and our opponent sucks at DI), we can get kills around 80% off a grab.

Turns out it was a video: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxIHQX1-tEM

Edit2: Turns out this is from the same channel our first combo video came from, which means everyone has probably seen this already. :/

 

[Fernosaur]

That seems suicidal to try in an actual match, hahaha.

 

[Alacion]

So this elevator talk reminded me of something...

Dthrow>Elevator
I've gotten this to true combo (well it made the number thing go to 7) in training, but it's very finicky. An aerial disapper doesn't send them as high as the grounded one, so you have to tack on a lot more damage for it to work. I remember seeing a gif or it being done perfectly, but I'll have to dig it up again.

Anyways, this could be really useful, but incredibly risky to pull off. If we master this (and our opponent sucks at DI), we can get kills around 80% off a grab.

Turns out it was a video: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxIHQX1-tEM

Edit2: Turns out this is from the same channel our first combo video came from, which means everyone has probably seen this already. :/

Yeah I tested this long ago. Not guaranteed, but gotta get the opponent to feel comfortable enough to not air dodge right after a dthrow (or do anything in general).

 

[Phenomiracle]

I've been thinking of more ways to bait a noticeable approach that I can punish with a shield and elevator, guess I'll add the throws to the list. *slaps forehead*

I'm a little curious. What are these bad habits you talk about concerning Lvl 9s?

You'll quickly be abusing mistakes that typical lvl 9 CPUs make, the most glaring being their innate refusal to shield FW. Their approaches will quickly become more predictable, as they hardly ever shield roll. Soon, you'll be reading them quite easily.

You'll be fighting a slowly deteriorating wall that bounces the ball back where you can easily catch it and throw it right back.

Level 7/8 CPUs are more hesitant in their approaches, which gives you time to think on the important things you should be practicing, like low % combos, teching, OoS options, etc.

 

[Rickster]

Yeah I tested this long ago. Not guaranteed, but gotta get the opponent to feel comfortable enough to not air dodge right after a dthrow (or do anything in general).

Aw, not guaranteed? What's up the combo counter then? I keep hearing that it's inaccurate at times, but has it always been like that?

I feel betrayed.

 

[Fernosaur]

I feel betrayed.

Don't feel betrayed~ Zelda's trying! And failing... But trying!

 

[Alacion]

Aw, not guaranteed? What's up the combo counter then? I keep hearing that it's inaccurate at times, but has it always been like that?

I feel betrayed.

Not really sure how that counter works. I tested this with a human opponent. Chances of this combo landing isn't worth even attempting this.

 

[Furret]

Im sure shes not the worst. her MUs against the top tiers kinda already bring her to the top of bottom. Shes probably low imo.

My dream Zelda

General
- Faster Speed
- Slightly Heavier

Standard attacks
- Reduce ending lag on dash attack

Tilts
- Give her Utilt true follow ups
- Make Ftilt kill as early as 100%
- Give her brawl Dtilt

Smashes
- Give her brawl Usmash
- Give her brawl Dsmash
- Make her Fsmash connect consistently

Aerials
- Increase Uair KB
- Reduce ending lag on bair/fair
- Give her brawl nair

Din's Fire
- Give weak hitbox when its traveling
- Increase range
- As fast as Din's flare
- Faster explosion upon release
- Reduce starting and ending lag

Nayru's Love
- Increase Active frames

Farore's Wind
- Less ending lag on reappearing

Phantom Slash
- Make it chargeable

ahhh done

My Dream Zelda:
Broken tier

@Rion I will never give her up

 

[Fuoujin 2]

I think there are actually quite a few characters that are worst


Positive traits: great punishes, great offstage game, decent combo game, pretty good MUs

Mess.

I almost want to drag but then I remember tha you're 13 and I will let this slide.

Do your best I suppose!

 

[Alacion]

Er forget this post, lol.

 

[Berserker.]

This game bad just means not as good as the others

That's basically Zelda. She's really not as good as a big portion of the cast in this game. She's not horrible in a sense that there's no way you can win with her. I'm pretty much under the impression that you can win with any character whether they're perceived low/bottom tier or not. It's just that it's a lot harder to win with them but the chances of winning at the moment are probably bigger than the previous iterations of Smash (MAYBE except Smash 64). The worst part is that some characters are better than Zelda in her "specialization" (That being defense). Combined with the fact that all her aerials have a lot of landing lag, her moveset being pretty bad in terms of function and utility, and the presence some serious flawed design choices (Din's fire most notably), it's really hard to wonder why most players and most Zelda mains deem her as bottom tier

I almost want to drag but then I remember tha you're 13 and I will let this slide.

What a nice guy

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I read it with mod powers and I understand it completely @ Alacion

 

[Fernosaur]

Why does Rosalina exist.

WHY

I loved her so much in Mario Kart et al, but they just had to make her so powerful this time :'D

 

[Berserker.]

Why does Rosalina exist.

WHY

I loved her so much in Mario Kart et al, but they just had to make her so powerful this time :'D

And that's why I picked her up as a secondary

 

[Fernosaur]

I kinda wanted to main her when the game first came out but I felt super dirty knowing she was so powerful :'D. The Ness match up against her is nigh impossible thanks to the ridiculous range of Gravitational pull -_-.

Also, FG lag lawl.

I kinda wanna pick her up but I DON'T WANNA BE A TIER ***** oTL

 

[Berserker.]

You're not gonna be a tier ***** for using her. Don't worry. People are too busy egging Diddy. Plus, she's not OP but I was adamant about this since pre-1.04

 

[KuroganeHammer]

yes, nair and dtilt sadly do not beat every option in the game anymore

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I really miss Her Usmash.

 

[Princess Toady]

Don't you girls find it infuriating when someone (a noticeably bad player) dares to claim that Zelda is strong and OP and has options (lawl) when all it took you was one match to realize that she was much more worse than in Brawl ?!

I feel like I'm dying on the inside whenever I hear this kind of stuff.

 

[Eulette]

Dunno if this is already a thing but you can use Nayru when running off of a platform and keep the momentum of the run, to do it you just have to stop the run just before you leave the platform (does this have to do with the skid animation?), If done too late you'll just Nayru and stop any momentum and it does not work out of a Dash. Its actually very noticeable if done on the top platform of Battlefield because you can go as far as the edge of the base platform.

I really think we should mess around with the new engine more before deeming her as a fully stale character.

Even if she's not strong or whathever by virtue of having every special move affecting her momentum in some way means that there are possible ATs to find (even moreso with platforms probably)!
(Soo, if B-Sticking possible to do in the Wii U? Sorry for being persistent but I think that's one thing that would help Zelda control the momentum of the phantom easier.)

Speaking of the phantom, I'm really confused about what people expect of this move: While storing it would be neat feature I don't think it synergizes with the phantom itself, unlike other charging moves Zelda can affect her momentum a lot while charging it and the projectile itself look like it was intended to work as a wall (even if in practice it doesnt work).
If anything, I would prefer they buff the phantom in other ways, like a more solid hitbox (so I can't be reflected or just rolled past by and so the moving windbox becomes more noticeable) and yeah, better interuptability as everyone has said would be awesome.


Actually looking at PM's Din, a recall command for the phantom would be sooooo cool! (But yeah, i'll never happen)

Fast edit: You can B-Reverse the nayru too!
Ok this too fun to mess with alongside Phantom and Ledge cancelled Farore on Battlefield :v

 

[evmaxy54]

You can B-Reverse Din's as well (kinda pointless except for mindgames/being fancy).

The momentum thingy after running off a platform with NL isn't new, it was present in Brawl. That being said, doing a B-Reverse NL off a platform is always great bant.

 

[Meru.]

I think there are actually quite a few characters that are worst

Olimar, Charizard, Dedede, Doc, Falco, Link, Donkey Kong and Wii Fit Trainer are all better than Zelda without any doubt. That leaves Ganondorf, Samus and Swordsman. Imo Ganondorf is similar to Zelda but much scarier and more effective so I feel he's better. I can't imagine Samus being worse than Zelda either. That leaves Swordsman but I know nothing about him.

Positive traits: pretty good MUs

NO. NOOO NO NOOOO.

Allof the other positive traints you mentioned are either not entirely correct or somewhat wrong but Zelda having good match-up is just flat-out a lie.

First of all, Little Mac is simply unwinnable. He has ANYTHING that could simply destroy Zelda and she can't do anything against him. But other than this unwinnable match-up, she also has plenty of other horrible match-ups like:

Diddy Kong
Sheik
Sonic (never played a very good one, but this might also be unwinnable)
Greninja
Peach
Falcon

among many more. Zelda's match-up are looking very bad and we're still early in the game... it can really become only much much worse.[/quote][/quote]

 

[GameAngel64]

A thought occurred to me while reading over and over again how in the past games, Zelda was considered "good" at the beginning but quickly dropped down the tier lists, so the fact that she is ALREADY considered so bad must mean [?????]. Wouldn't it be a just irony if, this time, when we start out already resigned to her awfulness, if somehow she wound up being the best she has yet? I don't see how, at this point, but in a just world, we are owed this.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

wave bounce dins is still a thing, if blaze could be controlled better it would be amazing.