Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Hyrule Candy]

GGs Zelda.

Here's to hoping she'll be good in Smash 5!!



I just wanted to say the same thing. If he's like that for years, then it's probably just his personality.

Did you read my edit above ur post. It could be a good thing

 

[Meru.]

You could say the same about every other character. What if Diddy or Rosalina or ZSS or Yoshi or Ganondorf or Olimar (or....) found a broken AT? What if everybody but Zelda found a broken AT?

Also that AT would have to be reeeeeeaally broken. RC pivot grabs would not be enough to help this character.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

mewtwo should bring a patch of some sorts just to add him in anyway. I think i will hold out some hope until Mewtwo is released

 

[Hyrule Candy]

mewtwo should bring a patch of some sorts just to add him in anyway. I think i will hold out some hope until Mewtwo is released

The patch would need
Better dins
Better phantom
Better Usmash
Fsmash and Usmash connecting regularly
Dsmash faster
Bthrow KB buff

Then she might be high

 

[JigglyZelda003]

you forgot Nair, Air lag in general lol.

 

[GameAngel64]

ok sisterinos

mainly for the older sisters i know

but some real talk

i know this dude over the net, and ive known him for like, years now, but it's starting to bug me that his social skills are less than impressive

we talk like, every day over skype IMs (and skype calls when we're playing league/smash/mario kart) but sometimes i just get the vibe that he's really not that interested in things i have to say/ask

like, he went to a tournament yesterday and he didn't bother to tell me where he placed, or I went to a tournament the other week and he didn't bother to ask where I placed (this is important because I was one of the main people who kept nagging at him for like, ever, to go to tournaments etc)

I think of him as a friend because of how long we've known each other but i wonder to myself sometimes if he thinks that of me or if he thinks of me as just a guy on the internet, and dwelling on that scares me tbh

He uses smashboards but I doubt he'd find this post, but it's something I've wanted to talk to him about for ages but idk if it's just me being weird or overreacting or what

Has anyone else had experiences similar to this? I sort of doubt it but im like, dying inside keeping this to myself so i wanted to post it somewhere <:

Here's the real talk since you asked for it (and I'm pushing 30, so I'm probably old enough): sometimes in life there are the people who are our friends, and other times there are the people who are just our "Player 2," so to speak. A Player 2 is someone who is mainly just available for video games but basically this is where the relationship ends. I have seen folks who have mistaken their Player 2 for a real friend until duty really called and then they realized where they stood. This is often distressing, but at this point you can decide whether you can be happy with the relationship under this definition or not.

That being said, it sounds like you have been friends with this person for a long time. If you still talk a lot in general, and it is just a matter of him not asking or sharing about tournament stuff, maybe he is trying to grow the other aspects of the relationship so it is not purely defined by a Player 2 type situation. Or maybe he is embarrassed about his performance in this game, so he didn't want to bring up how he placed, or ask how you did for fear of comparison/opening that can of worms.

You mentioned that his social skills are less than stellar as well, so you are already aware that what you are noticing may just be a personality trait and not reflective of the quality of your relationship. I myself am an introvert, but eloquent and not stereotypically awkward, so sometimes people mistake my introverted nature for mere b**chiness. It is probably better to just assume best intentions here since you already know he has social deficiencies.

In the end, everyone else gave good advice. You need to talk to him. It doesn't have to be big and dramatic, but just be upfront. If you want to talk about the tournament you were at, or ask about how he placed, do so. Then you will see if he is short with your or dodges the question. Either way you can follow up and ask if he is not liking the game or what the deal is that he seems more withdrawn now. Sorry if this post got too long, but I hope it helps.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

A lot of good advice, thanks everyone <3

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry to bring down the party, but I just have to get this off chest - Zelda depresses me. No, scratch that. I love Zelda; it's the game designers who depress me. How they can allow a character to be this awful THREE games in a row is mind boggling and embarrassing. Even after giving us move customization (all of Zelda's options are garbage), and a balance patch (she literally received nothing), she is still just as awful as ever.

There are only two possibilities here - either they know Zelda is bad but do not care enough to fix her (which is unbelievably lazy and unprofessional) or they actually think she is a strong, well-designed fighter (which shows a complete lack of competence and might be an indicator of serious brain damage.) In short, these people should not be in the business of balancing fighting games and need to be replaced if we ever get another Smash game in the distant future.

That is all. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Alacion]

Hi @~Firefly~ I see you! We need to play... especially before you leave for NWM and the holidays

I miss losing to your Yoshi... MK not as much

 

[Toadallstar2]

The ending lag kills me (literally) the most, like wtf. I know it's similar to other characters with strong aireals but considering how difficult it is to sweetspot it, shouldn't that be punishing enough for us Zelda's? And the range is so short too, like I can't even kill with it under 100% anymore.

Up air also takes forever to kill. Up smash takes forever AND it hardly hits. It was my favorite in Brawl because of how far she extended her arms.

At least I can complain to y'all cuz you all get it.

 

[Rizen]

The ending lag kills me (literally) the most, like wtf. I know it's similar to other characters with strong aireals but considering how difficult it is to sweetspot it, shouldn't that be punishing enough for us Zelda's? And the range is so short too, like I can't even kill with it under 100% anymore.

Up air also takes forever to kill. Up smash takes forever AND it hardly hits. It was my favorite in Brawl because of how far she extended her arms.

At least I can complain to y'all cuz you all get it.

I agree. Zelda was nerfed bad. I tried playing her like Brawl but found she has a lot more lag on moves like Fair/Bair, bad landing lag and less range on a lot of moves like Usmash.
/old news but I just started playing.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I agree. Zelda was nerfed bad. I tried playing her like Brawl but found she has a lot more lag on moves like Fair/Bair, bad landing lag and less range on a lot of moves like Usmash.
/old news but I just started playing.

Yeah the lag on bair and fair was increased but it has more KB and a bigger sweetspot. I think it's better tbh. Uair is just a direct nerf. The hitbox and the KB.

I think in some spots this game she was nerfed and some was buffed. I think she's generally buffed. She still can't approuch but she kinda can in way. Me and rion did this in our matches, we jumped and Nayru's loved, jumping and air dodging then bair or fair, or SH fair and bair is pretty good.

She also has a pretty good combo game.

Also just pop on din's flare and a few problems fixed

 

[Fuoujin 2]

Nnn let's hope for Zeldawful's sake if there is another patch she gets overhauled.



I've given up on her though, Sakurai doesn't care about her evidently.
Maybe 8 years from now when were all in our late 20s and 30s and the next smash game is released we will finally get a decent Zelda.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Nnn let's hope for Zeldawful's sake if there is another patch she gets overhauled.



I've given up on her though, Sakurai doesn't care about her evidently.
Maybe 8 years from now when were all in our late 20s and 30s and the next smash game is released we will finally get a decent Zelda.

Ya know she might find a approach or AT that will fix her problems.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Don't forget about that Famitsu interview that claims that Sakurai won't be doing any more balance patches. But it hasn't been fully translated, so the parts we've actually have translated could only mean half of the story. He'll still be fixing minor things that did affect gameplay, iirc.

We probably won't be getting game-changing stuff like non-helpless Din's or even our Usmash back, but a fix on all her dead zones and Fsmash is definitely still possible. Pray for our lost child.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Don't forget about that Famitsu interview that claims that Sakurai won't be doing any more balance patches. But it hasn't been fully translated, so the parts we've actually have translated could only mean half of the story. He'll still be fixing minor things that did affect gameplay, iirc.

We probably won't be getting game-changing stuff like non-helpless Din's or even our Usmash back, but a fix on all her dead zones and Fsmash is definitely still possible. Pray for our lost child.

Also the ATs we'll discover won't be patched out.

 

[GameAngel64]

Sorry to bring down the party, but I just have to get this off chest - Zelda depresses me. No, scratch that. I love Zelda; it's the game designers who depress me. How they can allow a character to be this awful THREE games in a row is mind boggling and embarrassing. Even after giving us move customization (all of Zelda's options are garbage), and a balance patch (she literally received nothing), she is still just as awful as ever.

There are only two possibilities here - either they know Zelda is bad but do not care enough to fix her (which is unbelievably lazy and unprofessional) or they actually think she is a strong, well-designed fighter (which shows a complete lack of competence and might be an indicator of serious brain damage.) In short, these people should not be in the business of balancing fighting games and need to be replaced if we ever get another Smash game in the distant future.

That is all. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

I know how you feel. She literally depresses me too. I am thinking the problem is that Zelda can be pretty good in a casual environment, either in a chaotic free-for-all party situation or against folks that cannot shield Farore's Wind. I feel this is the group of players the development team is most concerned about catering to, and if they gave Zelda even the minimum upgrades she would need to be viable in a competitive environment she might seem "unstoppable" to lower level players. And therefore, they will never improve her. Just look at that Community Patch Project thread to see the ignorance about Din's Fire from those on the "outside."

What I don't understand about Zelda is that she is supposed to be one of the "hits hard, moves slow" kind of characters, but the other characters that also fall under this definition can at least take a ton of damage before getting KOed. Sure, you might be able to hit Bowser a bit easily because he is a big target, but he can take it ALL and if he manages to get just 4 good hits on you, you're KOed. Zelda is easy to hit too because if she ever wants to attack there is all that start/end lag, but it is the opposite for her; YOU get 4 good hits on HER, and she's done. Since this is the case, they need to give her a LOT more mobility. She is not balanced as is.

I am very annoyed that the only legitimate KO option they've left us with is Farore's Wind. It's really cool looking and fun when you can get those hits in, but as soon as people figure out "just shield" she is out of choices. I was playing my husband's Ganondorf and he was at 70% damage. I hit him near the edge of the stage with a sweet-spotted lightning kick and he did not die. I shortly thereafter (while he still had 70+whatever% damage from the lightning kick) hit him dead on with the U-Air, and again he got close, but did not die. I think I had to eventually take him out with a Farore's Wind. But with a lot of characters there will never be an opportunity to do that. :-/

 

[Meru.]

@ Hyrule Candy , I think it's very nice and sweet how optimistic you are. Frankly I'm a very optimistic person too!

... But not when it comes to Zeldawful.

I know how you feel. She literally depresses me too. I am thinking the problem is that Zelda can be pretty good in a casual environment, either in a chaotic free-for-all party situation or against folks that cannot shield Farore's Wind. I feel this is the group of players the development team is most concerned about catering to, and if they gave Zelda even the minimum upgrades she would need to be viable in a competitive environment she might seem "unstoppable" to lower level players. And therefore, they will never improve her.

She's also not particularly good in Free for Alls/chaotic environments. Sure, her Dins are Farore's are easier to hit with but they're both super laggy. Like you said, Zelda can't afford to take hits since she's light as a feather and dies fast. Leaving yourself open is not a wise option as Zelda. They said they where going to balance characters for every mode but I'm not really sure what made they balanced her for. Maybe she's broken in Homerun Contest?

 

[Rizen]

Aside from UpB Zelda feels generally nerfed. I prefer a faster Bair/Fair.

 

[Rickster]

I think at this point the devs just don't have a clue what to do with her.

I think her Melee trophy said something about her being "very defensive" or something. It kinda worked, but SDI ruined like 75% of her moveset, and then there was Sheik.

In Brawl she was pretty much straight buffed. But the engine and newcomers ruined her, along with the changes to her kicks.

Now her trophy says something like "quick on the draw with magic, but slow at moving". So it seems like they want her to be a glass cannon now. But now she has too much glass and not enough cannon.

Really if they just combined Melee Zelda and Brawl Zelda she would be set IMO.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I think when there's more ATs and gameplay changes she'll be better. Her lightning kicks in this R better imo and so is Nayru's love. I'm certain she's not bottom like.

 

[Rizen]

Has it been confirmed F/Bair are stronger? They feel weaker or the same but I might have imagined it.

 

[evmaxy54]

They feel weaker IMO, but that could be me being a massive downer though.

Having arguments on Facebook on why Zelda sucks is always fun btw highly recommended.

 

[GameAngel64]

@ Hyrule Candy , I think it's very nice and sweet how optimistic you are. Frankly I'm a very optimistic person too!

... But not when it comes to Zeldawful.



She's also not particularly good in Free for Alls/chaotic environments. Sure, her Dins are Farore's are easier to hit with but they're both super laggy. Like you said, Zelda can't afford to take hits since she's light as a feather and dies fast. Leaving yourself open is not a wise option as Zelda. They said they where going to balance characters for every mode but I'm not really sure what made they balanced her for. Maybe she's broken in Homerun Contest?

I see what you mean, and have often griped that Zelda is not meant to go into the fray since she cannot take many hits, but as long as your opponents don't figure out they need to gang up on you, it is really easy to stay off to the side and just teleport in now and again to kill everybody. And obviously I am talking about a certain skill-class of player here. And this is the skill-class the dev team is worried about, methinks.

 

[Alacion]

One of my favourite OoS options as Zelda was up smash in Melee/Brawl. Feels like this was butchered as well.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Zelda is just too slow to be this weak. It feels like playing peach without the mobility. I'm fine with her being slow if she were stronger, which I would prefer, but right now she's not and it hurts.

 

[BJN39]

@ Hyrule Candy
She's also not particularly good in Free for Alls/chaotic environments.

I have to disagree here.

Picking Zelda in FG 4 player is like, an auto-win whenever I do.

Has it been confirmed F/Bair are stronger? They feel weaker or the same but I might have imagined it.

Actually, I THINK that stats say they're... Weaker. LOL. I think though it's just the Base KB. The growth might actually be a little better iirc, either way it does the job well enough we believed it could've had a KB buff.

One of my favourite OoS options as Zelda was up smash in Melee/Brawl. Feels like this was butchered as well.

That's what happens when they add a totally random extra 3 startup so she can flourish her hand before attacking. ^ ^

Tbh that's one of the changes that REALLY gets under my skin. If you look at Pit, MegaMan, and Diddy's Usmashs, you'll see that they got relatively similar designs with way better skewage. Pit's has godly range and it decently quick, Diddy's is frickin' frame 5 and has good vertical range, and Megaman's is practically Zelda Brawl's Usmash in data. Smh.

 

[Toadallstar2]

I know how you feel. She literally depresses me too. I am thinking the problem is that Zelda can be pretty good in a casual environment, either in a chaotic free-for-all party situation or against folks that cannot shield Farore's Wind. I feel this is the group of players the development team is most concerned about catering to, and if they gave Zelda even the minimum upgrades she would need to be viable in a competitive environment she might seem "unstoppable" to lower level players. And therefore, they will never improve her. Just look at that Community Patch Project thread to see the ignorance about Din's Fire from those on the "outside."
:-/

That's how I always felt too, is that for casual "noobs" who just play to have a good time and don't get mechanics and stuff... Zelda can completely own. Throw out smash attacks, lucky Up+B, "unavoidable" dins and she'll win easily. Even if I play average players online it's so easy because they can't avoid what I just said.
But apply this to competitive 1vs1... it's awful. None of that works. Kill options are difficult to pull off, the only way is trying to survive until they mess up.

When I tried Brawl, her recovery was absolutely horrible and how you can grab the ledge to kill her. This removal alone>>>Brawl Zelda imo. Even with all the crap we now face I'd rather have this version for the recovery alone. Plus the rare time we can use it to KO. Campers have to be careful of this.

Plus I find Phantom useful for a variety of circumstances. It being a "wall" is my favorite, they can't bypass it and we can go on through. Even for good players it's not that understood of how it works.

I got the Amiibo. Now to figure out how this works...

 

[GameAngel64]

My level 50 Zelda amiibo is now a force to be reckoned with. She still does some stupid stuff from time to time but she can Farore's Elevator like a pro and, like most computers, her timing on everything is just impeccable.

 

[ZombieBran]

Back in my early noob Brawl days, I thought Zelda was great. All my friends thought she was broken (HAHAHA) but even then I knew she had real mobility flaws.

Then really quickly I felt her shortcomings all over her design. Even with friends who couldn't SDI or dodge reliably she had exploitable flaws. I still won though because, again, these were players who couldn't time dodges reliably.

But yeah, she's definitely been regulated to almost nothing but a slaughterer of noobs
and a stealth killer in 2v2/FFAs, for what it's worth.

 

[Oh Snap]

Whenever I see Zelda land with a F/B-air I always worry she's not gonna get back up.

 

[ZombieBran]

Whenever I see Zelda land with a F/B-air I always worry she's not gonna get back up.

Gonna sig this

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Has it been confirmed F/Bair are stronger? They feel weaker or the same but I might have imagined it.

Yeah but it might feel the same because the blast zones are bigger.

@ M Meru. im always this optimistic bout zeldamazing is because I have a lot of faith that she can be good she just needs more discoveries in her metagame.

Play against rion made me pretty certain that she's not bottom. I just wish u guys had more faith in her

 

[BJN39]

Yeah but it might feel the same because the blast zones are bigger.

Actually, no.

The stats for Brawl FAir (Base KB/KB growth) were like 40/90, and the SSB4 stats for FAir are like 25/95.

That 5 KB growth boost would have to cover some serious ground that I don't think it does.

Mind you, FAir / BAir sweetspots are still some of The most powerful aerial hit-boxes in the game if not THE.

Edit : Oop, just remembered FAir in brawl was actually like, 40/95 LOL yeah, FAir KB was nerfed. xD

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Someone tried to tell me about all these moves that got buffed on my Zelda video

And I was like

No.

 

[BJN39]

Which moves could they possibly have found buffs in aside FW?

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Which moves could they possibly have found buffs in aside FW?

Dair... Nayru's... Jab... Dthrow...

I think that's it

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dsmash was one iirc, it's in the comment section of the video and is very enlightening, you should read it.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

Dsmash was one iirc, it's in the comment section of the video and is very enlightening, you should read it.

I just read it and I doubt he even plays zelda

 

[Alphatron]

Aside from jumping off the stage, what am I supposed to do in the Shulk matchup? I rarely see good Shulks, but when I do it's such a bother. Some of them make it so hard to get in close and speed monado definitely doesn't help me. Jump monado is super scary off stage because he can just jump out to maximum FW distance and go for a fair / bair / dair mid UpB start up. All I can hope to do is watch them flub a smash attack and punish them for it. Basically, he has to do something unsafe. Help me,..