Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Fernosaur]

@ Lavani hahahaha I know man THESE KIDS. But yeah I'm really kinda hyped right now.

Idk what that movie is or who you're talking about but good for you.

ONLY LIKE THE BEST FUGGIN DISNEY FILM EVER MADE?

 

[UkeNicky]

That song was nice. Brass <3

Now go grab that girl's heart & make us forever alone gurls proud :')

Spoiler: Did I hear forever alone gorls?

 

[evmaxy54]

@ Fernosaur Congrats big sis! (But does this not infringe that whole secrecy thingy or no?)

 

[Lorde]

@ Lorde yew like lady gaga's dope right? Her single was leaked and I think that you'll like it.

That song is pretty good. I'll keep an eye out for it when it's officially released.
Why does her stuff always get leaked, though?

___
I've seen The Rescuers Down Under (albeit a very long time ago). Am I cool yet?

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Fernosaur Congrats big sis! (But does this not infringe that whole secrecy thingy or no?)

Hahaha nah he's been announced as the director for a while now, but since I haven't officially joined the team with a long term contract I still cannot talk about much else.

And thanks, everyone!

 

[Macchiato]

So any gorl here going to evo? We need at least one zelda rep.

 

[Soul.]

yo does apex screw attack suck or is it good

 

[Lavani]

yo does apex screw attack suck or is it good

It kills really early, but it's frame 15 and lacks the absurd shield damage of default Screw Attack.

Make of that what you will.

 

[evmaxy54]

So any gorl here going to evo? We need at least one zelda rep.

No, but I was gonna go to a tournament in Scotland... But then I found out 2 return tickets via plane for the weekend it's on is like £80 (because I was most likely to go with my mum) & to participate in Sm4sh tourney was £35 & spectating was £15 so I was like "ain't nobody got money for this"

There's a Melee tournament about the same time as the Scotland one & it's about an hour away from where I live so I'll probably go to that instead (although I suck at Melee) & I have another local in a few weeks (for Melee, P:M & Sm4sh but I won't enter P:M)

So yeah

No.

:3

 

[Cenizas]

Where is EVO anyway?

 

[Macchiato]

The thing is, I really want @Nairo to use her at evo, but I really don't see that happening tbh. He didn't use her at APEX 2015 once and I don't see that changing. No matter what Ill still respect him as a great smasher, but honestly less tournament rep will just bring her down. Right now she's the least used character not counting the miis. Unless we start getting more rep, Zeldas just gonna keep getting worse. It right now just looks like brawl again to me. Honestly our meta hasn't advanced much other than squall which requires her to lose the elevator, both of those moves get rid of a bunch of weaknesses. Either way I see her meta advancing slowly while everyone's changes more rapidly. Right now I see her as at mid but as the meta grows. Even though she wasn't litarally buffed. She's as good as brawl zelda but the mechanics make her way better. Those small mechanics buff her that much. We need to start changing her and making her better. I'm know she has potential but it's just not coming out. But seriously if we don't do something, it'll be brawl all over again. Zelda starts up as mid then drops as the meta advances

 

[Nammy12]

Where is EVO anyway?

Las Vegas.

 

[Lorde]

[Smash 4 Zelda] is as good as brawl zelda

lol stop. Smash 4 took everything that was good with Brawl Zelda, threw it in the garbage can, and gave her the elevator in return.

Sure, she could still be low/mid, but I'd say that's due to the engine (and mechanics in general) being pretty favorable for her, not due to Zelda suddenly becoming a good character. Her kit is literal **** with a few highlights (dair, dthrow, elevator, nair). Without the elevator, Zelda would probably be the worst character in the game, bar none.
inb4 "i can't deal with this pessimism, so i'm dropping Zelda for 3 days."

Without massive changes to Zelda's kit, I cannot foresee her ever being a viable character.

edit: I now dedicate this page to all of Zelda's shortcomings.

 

[UkeNicky]

Zelda needs super armor or something cool.
I love me some super armor.

(Edit) You guys keep stealing the top page post ;^; I just want it once, ONCE damn you.
But it's cool, I'll remember this.
*sharpens axe*

 

[Fernosaur]

The thing is, I really want @Nairo to use her at evo, but I really don't see that happening tbh. He didn't use her at APEX 2015 once and I don't see that changing. No matter what Ill still respect him as a great smasher, but honestly less tournament rep will just bring her down. Right now she's the least used character not counting the miis. Unless we start getting more rep, Zeldas just gonna keep getting worse. It right now just looks like brawl again to me. Honestly our meta hasn't advanced much other than squall which requires her to lose the elevator, both of those moves get rid of a bunch of weaknesses. Either way I see her meta advancing slowly while everyone's changes more rapidly. Right now I see her as at mid but as the meta grows. Even though she wasn't litarally buffed. She's as good as brawl zelda but the mechanics make her way better. Those small mechanics buff her that much. We need to start changing her and making her better. I'm know she has potential but it's just not coming out. But seriously if we don't do something, it'll be brawl all over again. Zelda starts up as mid then drops as the meta advances

That's what happens to low tiers in general, kiddo. The one good aspect about that is that eventually people will be so unfamiliar with the low tiers' MUs that they won't see a lot of stuff coming their way :'D

But yeah, that's basically it for Zelda. Honestly, how can you advance the meta of a character that's so unfinished and undeveloped in terms of tool kit and programming? She doesn't have good approach options, she has terrible mobility, her aerials suck balls, her smashes are unreliable and partially non-existant, and her only new thing which we could explore which is Phantom is just nigh unusable because of how laggy, predictable and specific it is. Our only hope so far has been messing around with customs, which has yielded.... mixed results, but this isn't because we don't want to advance her meta, just that we don't have anything to advance. Zelda's always been like this and Sm4sh isn't an exception :'D.

Zelda's meta is "hope the opponent ****s up and punish."

The difference between Sm4sh Zelda and Brawl Zelda is that she has a tiny bit of a combo game now, and that she has a lot of good edgeguarding potential because of her great recovery. I actually think we should incorporate nair for edgeguards more, actually.

 

[Mocha]

Smash 4 Zelda is so simple, that it sometimes bores me. Pretty much any Zelda who has practiced her enough to a decent level all do the same thing (from what I've seen, no dissing to you other sisters though).

I know the same could be said for a lot of chars, but for some reason, I don't feel as rewarded using this char compared to Brawl.

 

[evmaxy54]

@ Lorde you misspelled penisissim sis get with the program

 

[Lavani]

christ

even with QR codes making pokemon takes forever

I've been at this for hours over the last couple days and I'm barely past the halfway point for what I need ;_;

Also, what do people do with Greninja now that ORAS tutors exist? I noticed with 148 Atk EVs, Low Kick OHKOs M-Kang after SR which seems pretty important, but idk if gutting his spatk is worth it.

 

[Ffamran]

Las Vegas.

I can't think of anything for "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" and Zelda.

 

[Lavani]

Zelda's only going to Vegas if she's in disguise.

 

[Rickster]

Congrats @ Fernosaur ! So you get to make a movie with the guy? It sounds great!

And yeah, I agree with the "running out of metagame" thing. We're... literally running out of things to find. All we have left are customs, and they aren't even that great. We have the move data, strings, etc. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for something to pop up eventually. Especially the Phantom. I really want to get that thing to work, I'm just not quite sure how yet.

As far as representation goes...we could use more of that. We should be thankful however that our representation is following the "quality over quantity" thing. Nayro may not use her as much in the future, but I doubt he'll drop her.

I might be able to attend tourneys at some point, though I'm no expert player, lol. @ Mocha and I will be the best Zeldas (and maybe Greninjas) in Texas!

 

[Lorde]

@ Lorde you misspelled penisissim sis get with the program

I honestly considered spelling it that way but I figured that my post was too serious to use the word "penisissm" or I'd risk making it sound like a joke post.

I promise to say penisissim from now on.

 

[SBphiloz4]

christ

even with QR codes making pokemon takes forever

I've been at this for hours over the last couple days and I'm barely past the halfway point for what I need ;_;

Also, what do people do with Greninja now that ORAS tutors exist? I noticed with 148 Atk EVs, Low Kick OHKOs M-Kang after SR which seems pretty important, but idk if gutting his spatk is worth it.

I'm pretty sure Low Kick + Gunk Shot was a staple for most sets, and iirc some Greninjas went full physical before it got banned. Ice Beam is probably there as well, but yeah didn't really follow the metagame so idk what did they run before Greninja got banned.

At least he won't be banned in Smash because he always gets nerfed. ;^)

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Evo is where I live, so eeee that's cool.

If Smash 4 Zelda had a usable 1-2-3 jab, rapid jab, and spammable Light Arrow's instead of Phantom, she might actually be able to approach and would be a lot better. Even with those extra little things, her metagame could advance more.
I never thought I'd say that Zelda could approach lmao

 

[Mocha]

@ Fernosaur Good luck, man. People rarely get a chance such as this, so definitely go for this opportunity. Keep us updated, hm?

I might be able to attend tourneys at some point, though I'm no expert player, lol. @ Mocha and I will be the best Zeldas (and maybe Greninjas) on Texas!

I would die for your enthusiasm, my friend :') the struggle is real with discouragement.

If you do attend tournies here, or anywhere else, I'll be rooting for you all the way.

 

[Lavani]

I'm pretty sure Low Kick + Gunk Shot was a staple for most sets, and iirc some Greninjas went full physical before it got banned. Ice Beam is probably there as well, but yeah didn't really follow the metagame so idk what did they run before Greninja got banned.

At least he won't be banned in Smash because he always gets nerfed. ;^)

I probably should've been more clear that I was asking more about EVs than moveset, but I'll keep that in mind. I've got Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/Low Kick atm, which...feels a lot different from the Hydro Pump/Grass Knot/HP Fire/(Extrasensory/Ice Beam) I used to run, but Gunk Shot and Low Kick are DUMB so it's ok

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Fernosaur Good luck, man. People rarely get a chance such as this, so definitely go for this opportunity. Keep us updated, hm?

Thanks! And will do! If the movie does make it out into the market I'll force you all to go watch it (even if it might not be very good I can at least make an effort to make it look fab )

Btw! I'll be free tomorrow, so you think you'll wanna play then?

 

[Cenizas]

@ Ffamran I've been meaning to ask if you think accele-reflector is any good in doubles. I was thinking about it could be useful for pushing forward big, meaty projectiles like the tree or Samus's Dense Charge Shot. I was hoping that you might have an idea on whether it might work, because I have no friends and making CPUs do what you want is a pain so testing is going awful for me.

 

[UkeNicky]

@ Ffamran I've been meaning to ask if you think accele-reflector is any good in doubles. I was thinking about it could be useful for pushing forward big, meaty projectiles like the tree or Samus's Dense Charge Shot. I was hoping that you might have an idea on whether it might work, because I have no friends and making CPUs do what you want is a pain so testing is going awful for me.

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

 

[evmaxy54]

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

Make her gud

So she can b gud

 

[Mocha]

Thanks! And will do! If the movie does make it out into the market I'll force you all to go watch it (even if it might not be very good I can at least make an effort to make it look fab )

Btw! I'll be free tomorrow, so you think you'll wanna play then?

It'll be a movie night out for the Zelda social. If it happens, I propose we all get together to watch. Popcorn, drinks, candy, coffee... all that good stuff might even be better than a raid day!

And yeah, if I can pull myself together, I'll be down

 

[JigglyZelda003]

it'll be brawl all over again. Zelda starts up as mid then drops as the meta advances

the fact that Zelda can shield grab now will still make her usable since she actually has an option OoS unlike brawl where she didn't. but then Brawl Zelda has alot more going for her as a whole i feel if we ignore mechanic differences between the games. I'd be fine with her being bottom tier if she was just optimized better.

Honestly if Sakurai would tweak Dins to make it a better camping too Zelda could easily hold up right at the bottom of mid tier with how she is now. even in her nerfed state she still has the basic tools to keep people off of her but she has no reliable way to make people approach her. its always been a weakness that Sakurai seems to refuse to acknowledge. who cares if she had a bad approach if she only had to approach 10% of the cast not 95%.


that's why Rosie who is basically Zelda+ is high tier. She has Luma and GP. these moves alone basically forces people to at least deal with Luma while its alive and make people come to her zone. despite Luma dying easy/derpy it still is a threat. Zelda can kinda neutralize camping with Nayru's but she can't camp back effectively only awkwardly if your dedicated. hell she can't even camp herself because the moment she tries she can teleport into herself. at least brawl dins had the big invisible hitbox to at least trick some people who didn't know it was huge, now hitting with Dins is completely up to your opponent being dumb or tricked into it.

and then we have Phantom which is both a poor shield and a poor attack turning into mediocrity. as dedicated as i have been to Zelda i'm still struggling to find some flow to her i can rely on but everything feels sketchy and i can't even change tactics cause i run into the same sketchy flow unless i have full match momentum control. i have more fun losing with Duck Hunt, because i at least feel like i had some other options i could have tried where as sometimes as Zelda i can only sit there like "dammit Sakurai"

i say we all welcome bottom tier with open arms where we rule unopposed except by Mii swordfighter.

 

[Lavani]

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

Just one, how do I even pick.

I think improving one of her projectiles should be the focus of that...there's at least five things I'd want changed with Din's, so I guess I'll go with "Allow her to store a Phantom Charge, similar to Aura Sphere/Charge Shot/Sun Salutation". Unfortunately it still won't be anything super great with Phantom's blind spots but eh.

On the other hand, Phantom Strike fixes the blind spot problem and it would become amazing.

 

[Rickster]

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

Hm....hard question, lol.

I would love a storable Phantom. Keep everything the same with it, just make it storable. A 24% mid-range punish would just be great. Also instant wall with a hitbox. Seriously that one thing would make the move SO much better (and as a result, make Zelda better without giving her a bunch of crazy stuff).

A bit small, but I think it could make a difference.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

everything so she can be good lol

Make Din's fire like PK/Arcfire, give her a different jab (a 1-2-3 and a rapid jab), replace Phantom with Light Arrows, and maybe have her use her TP/HW sword for a few moves. She'd be a lot better with a guranteed kill setup move, and she'd be much truer to character with Light Arrows, which she uses in almost every game, than the Phantom, which she only uses in one game

tldr; make Zelda actually viable. Seriously Sakurai, we've been disappointed with her three games in a row. Maybe that ought to signify you need to change her.

 

[Mocha]

Hyrule Warriors Zelda. But that's probably asking for a bit much

 

[Cenizas]

Give us Drag Zelda back so we can drag him down the tier list with us.

 

[Fernosaur]

Give her P:M's Din's Fire, or something akin to that.

The amount of stage control those things grant is ridiculous, and given that this is a much slower game than PM, she would really **** up a lot of characters. Oh and of course make it NOT a free-fall move, jesus.

Either that or make Din's Fire sorta like Pit's arrows. Like it doesn't even have to change that much, just make it fast as **** and that's it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Justsayin' I love your avatar :3

So hey this is directed at all of you girls, but if you could make ONE change to Zelda what would it be and why.

honestly if i could only pick one i would say Phantom

Phantom should be given more HP and be on a call back system after you summon him rather than going away after a while. to me this would help more than a chargable phantom because Zelda could summon him and abuse Dins from behind phantom for a longer period of time on less charge, in addition she could sit inside Phantom and reflect where if she missed the reflect Phantom takes the hit and if not she reflects projectiles away. it would help her stop petty projectile harrasment and at LEAST force people to look at Phantom like they look at Luma and not just pitiful.

this would also help Zelda with gimping people because Phantom can sit in front of the ledge longer. Sakurai could even make aerial phantom slowly fall to not make this tactic completely abusable but careful aim Zelda would become the queen of gimps. they either get Daired or Phantom is cockblocking the ledge. it wouldn't solve all her problems but it would at least give Zelda the ability to be stubborn about approaching, her big weakness.

 

[FullMoon]

Man I've been playing a lot better lately all of sudden. It feels really good to be able to win consistently in the ladder even against higher ranked opponents. I fought the guy in 3rd yesterday and managed to win one game out of three despite him playing Sheik.

Now I just need to learn how to deal with Fox and Sonic.