Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Berserker.]

Largely because the stage list was changed to accommodate MK but removing CPs that hurt them.

As far as I remembered, they were mid-tier because...

Olimar was a gimmick
Ice Climbers were just outright mediocre

They started rising when...

Olimar's hidden power (AKA: Camping, damage racking, dumb KO potential) was revealed
Ice Climber players started chain grabbing

 

[Ffamran]

I do really have to wonder what Sakurai was thinking with making Dark Pit a clone character instead of a palette swap and two custom moves. There really isn't a good excuse for him to exist as his own character slot.

Or Dark Pit could have used the other weapons in Uprising that Pit doesn't use in SSB4. Speculation being speculation, people have started to think that Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, Wolf Flash, Falco's "new" Bair, PK Freeze, the issue with the Ice Climbers, and whatever else are evidence that the developers ran out of time. They could have delayed the game, but didn't and Wolf and Lucas were never finished, Mewtwo might have been considered, but never finished, and the two clones and semi-clone were added to pad the game out because without them, it'd be 49 characters if you count the Mii Fighters as one character.

So, the Ice Climbers might have cost them a lot of time because they were trying to figure out them. Chrom might have been considered, but something happened and he ended up as a Final Smash with a lot of bad, insulting jokes to him, and Lucina was considered for as an alt which is stupid to say the least. She doesn't have Marth's build, except in Awakening and even then, Marth was probably taller or because nobody's seen Marth in a millennium, they don't know what he looks like, so Luci could pass off as him. Dark Pit as an alt would have been fine, but Dark Pit as a unique character would have been awesome, but nope, and Dr. Mario as an alt is kind of iffy because well, Melee.

Then you have "sources" saying Namco loved Wolf as a character or that he was Sakurai's favorite character. In terms of bias and staying neutral, Sakurai didn't want to do that, so he doesn't say who's his favorite character or if he does, he doesn't let it influence whatever character is being picked. Still, if a company, and let's say, 20 to 30 dev team members liked Wolf as a character, then why wasn't he worked on or prioritized on? You'd think that many people could persuade Sakurai or Nintendo since they're developing the game.

Then there's "alienation". Really? I swear if Ganondorf ends up as a fast moving, swashbuckling, precise, but brutal magician and trickster in Zelda Wii U and that sticks as a characterization and SSB5 still has Ganondorf as a slow, powerful Captain Falcon semi-clone... Really? And Toon Link! Where's the other iconic and unique Zelda gear he could use? And let's not get on why Zelda's design is stupid - three sweet-spot aerials. Characters evolve and while they have traits associated with them, it's not that bad to switch up something like giving Toon Link the Fire Rod or giving Zelda a rapier which is as of now, her current associated physical weapon until say, Zelda for the next console, popularizes her with pair of short swords or a magical staff.

Then there's Melee with Ganondorf's victory poses and his challenger pose suggesting he was supposed to use a sword and Wolf's "cameo" which I think was confirmed later on as Wolf being replaced by Falco because he'd "look too similar to Fox". How a wolf with an eyepatch, who's probably larger than Fox, and probably would have worn a different coat would look similar is beyond me. This might explain why Falco's air speed is ****.

Should we delve in Brawl's data dump where stuff like Toon Zelda, Roy, and Mewtwo were found? Or how Wolf's idle animation was said to resemble Fox's in the first frames before he moves to his low, battle-ready stance? Or hell, look at Wolf run and it sort of looks like Fox's stance, but in motion rather than at idle.

Whatever, speculation and all. Oh, and one last thing: Luigi wall jumping.

Ice Climbers became top 10 in Brawl 2 years later
Olimar became top 10 after several months

Now look where these 2 characters are now. Top 3 in the cast from being somewhere around mind tier. Sometimes, it's really worth it at the long run

I meant more in terms of money. So, let's say for whatever reason Diddy drops to 4 in 5 years, but in those 5 years, someone could place consistently and get a ton of cash and a ton of reputation as a 5 year veteran of SSB4.

 

[Furret]

While I appreciate the work Sakurai has done, he makes some pretty arbitrary decisions sometimes that don't make much sense. Such as Zelda's utilt receiving a 0.7% buff and Bowser Jr's dthrow receiving a 0.5% nerf. Dark Pit is the icing on the cake.

non customs dark pit is pointless, while we are knocking things here. He has 1 better match up in my opinion

IMO

Underrated characters as of now:
Overrated characters as of now: (and for people not named gorls )

I think the charm on duck hunt has really faded by this point and Luigi is kinda stealing the spotlight from mario at the time being (irony)

Or Dark Pit could have used the other weapons in Uprising that Pit doesn't use in SSB4. Speculation being speculation, people have started to think that Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, Wolf Flash, Falco's "new" Bair, PK Freeze, the issue with the Ice Climbers, and whatever else are evidence that the developers ran out of time. They could have delayed the game, but didn't and Wolf and Lucas were never finished, Mewtwo might have been considered, but never finished, and the two clones and semi-clone were added to pad the game out because without them, it'd be 49 characters if you count the Mii Fighters as one character.

So, the Ice Climbers might have cost them a lot of time because they were trying to figure out them. Chrom might have been considered, but something happened and he ended up as a Final Smash with a lot of bad, insulting jokes to him, Lucina was considered for as an alt which is stupid to say the least. She doesn't have Marth's build, except in Awakening and even then, Marth was probably taller or because nobody's seen Marth in a millennium, they don't know what he looks like, so Luci could pass off as him, Dark Pit as an alt would have been fine, but Dark Pit as a unique character would have been awesome, but nope, and Dr. Mario as an alt is kind of iffy because well, Melee.

Then you have "sources" saying Namco loved Wolf as a character or that he was Sakurai's favorite character. In terms of bias and staying neutral, Sakurai didn't want to do that, so he doesn't say who's his favorite character or if he does, he doesn't let it influence whatever character is being picked. Still, if a company, and let's say, 20 to 30 people liked Wolf as a character, then why wasn't he worked on or prioritized on? You'd think that many people could persuade Sakurai or Nintendo since they're developing the game.

Then there's "alienation". Really? I swear if Ganondorf ends up as a fast moving, swashbuckling, precise, but brutal magician and trickster in Zelda Wii U and that sticks as a characterization and SSB5 still has Ganondorf as a slow, powerful Captain Falcon semi-clone... Really? And Toon Link! Where's the other iconic and unique Zelda gear he could use? And let's not get on why Zelda's design is stupid - three sweet-spot aerials. Characters evolve and while they have traits associated with them, it's not that bad to switch up something like giving Toon Link the Fire Rod or giving Zelda a rapier which is as of now, her current associated physical weapon until say, Zelda for the next console popularizes here with pair of short swords or a magical staff.

Then there's Melee with Ganondorf's victory poses and his challenger pose suggesting he was supposed to use a sword and Wolf's "cameo" which I think was confirmed later on as Wolf being replaced by Falco because he'd "look too similar to Fox". How a Wolf with an eyepatch, who's probably larger than Fox, and probably would have worn a different coat would look similar is beyond me. This might explain why Falco's air speed is ****.

Should we delve in Brawl's data dump where stuff like Toon Zelda, Roy, and Mewtwo were found? Or how Wolf's idle animation was said to resemble Fox's in the first frames before he moves to his low, battle-ready stance? Or hell, look at Wolf run and it sort of looks like Fox's stance, but in motion rather than at idle.

Whatever, speculation and all. Oh, and one last thing: Luigi wall jumping.

Q: is there a TL DR for this?

Olimar's hidden power (AKA: Camping, damage racking, dumb KO potential) was revealed
Ice Climber players started chain grabbing

I like reading Olimar's wiki page for smash 4

• Jab combo deals less damage than in Brawl. (15% to 7%.)

wut? I didn't play brawl but that seems a bit much

 

[Berserker.]

Playing UMvC 3 because I bumped into it. I won my first match with Chris/RR/Akuma then I became stupid and switched RR for Phoenix Wright... Then I made Wright my point character. Then the guy I was up against made Phoenix his anchor

Whelp

 

[Ffamran]

Q: is there a TL DR for this?

A: Raging Rant.

 

[Spirst]

IMO

Underrated characters as of now:
Overrated characters as of now:

Curious as to your reasoning on these. From what I've seen, few people actually respect DH as a character and instead feel content to say he's just a campy character with bad normals. I understand MVD did well at Apex with DH but even then, DH barely gets much discussion and the general consensus seems to be that he's ehh overall with some cool tricks. As for Villager, he has more discussion than DH but I wouldn't say people overrate him so much as they just acknowledge he's a decent character but ultimately struggles with the upper echelon of characters.

As for MK, I fail to see how he's underrated when I typically see a number of people talking him up now that he's the flavor of the month. Mega Man is another character I'd hardly call underrated considering the representation he's received in the competitive scene as well as being acknowledged to have few bad MUs.

 

[Berserker.]

Pit's highly looked upon by most people. Also, this is the best and most informative drawing in Smashboards. Ever. This actually helped me in thinking that the Sonic MU isn't DUMB and my main opponent is actually my non-existent patience

 

[Rizen]

As far as I remembered, they were mid-tier because...

Olimar was a gimmick
Ice Climbers were just outright mediocre

They started rising when...

Olimar's hidden power (AKA: Camping, damage racking, dumb KO potential) was revealed
Ice Climber players started chain grabbing

Loosing Brinstar and RC didn't hurt them either. What you said is true though; people actually learned how to play the game. Zelda dropped like a lead weight. G&W fell out of the high tier, etc.

 

[Berserker.]

Zelda dropped like a lead weight. G&W fell out of the high tier, etc.

Oh I remember those moments

Also @ Locke 06

This is what your boy Zucc0 said on how to do Mega Man dittos: "I try not to"

 

[Furret]

Pit's highly looked upon by most people.

Because there are not enough people playing Pit. It's pretty easy to overlook a character when you never see it
no really, Dark Pit is ahead of him, how even
http://smashboards.com/rankings/smash-wii-u.8/league/teams
http://www.eventhubs.com/stats/ssb4/

 

[Locke 06]

Oh I remember those moments

Also @ Locke 06

This is what your boy Zucc0 said on how to do Mega Man dittos: "I try not to"

Oh, I know. That's why I find the quote in my signature funny. Fenrir and I were joking about having a hyped up best of 5 money match because of this. I told him that no matter how hyped up we made it sound... it would just end up being pew pew pew for like... 3/4 of the match waiting for the other person to make a mistake for a punish. Although Fenrir plays the MU better than most due to him just being more of an aggressive MM.

I feel confident in the MU due to just... being good at zoning in general. But I think I'll end up playing Shulk for the MU eventually. Either that or Marcina. Usually I dislike the ditto, but sometimes a zoning war is just what I want.

 

[Soul.]

Pit's highly looked upon by most people. Also, this is the best and most informative drawing in Smashboards. Ever. This actually helped me in thinking that the Sonic MU isn't DUMB and my main opponent is actually my non-existent patience

Next thing you know is that digital drawings help with MUs.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh, I know. That's why I find the quote in my signature funny. Fenrir and I were joking about having a hyped up best of 5 money match because of this. I told him that no matter how hyped up we made it sound... it would just end up being pew pew pew for like... 3/4 of the match waiting for the other person to make a mistake for a punish. Although Fenrir plays the MU better than most due to him just being more of an aggressive MM.

I feel confident in the MU due to just... being good at zoning in general. But I think I'll end up playing Shulk for the MU eventually. Either that or Marcina. Usually I dislike the ditto, but sometimes a zoning war is just what I want.

Aaaah. Zoning MU's. Snake ditto MU's made me shake my head a lot

Next thing you know is that digital drawings help with MUs.

It's a lot more appealing to look at :3

It's better than reading a wall of text

 

[Alacion]

Once Upon a Time is back.

Also, bought this immediately after I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmzoCxgrp0

The scrolling "yan"s aren't even annoying.

 

[Berserker.]

Once Upon a Time is back.

Also, bought this immediately after I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmzoCxgrp0

The scrolling "yan"s aren't even annoying.

My brother has watched OUAT. Told me it was good so maybe I should also watch it. Then again, I'm watching a lot of shows and I'm reading something atm. Eh whatever

Also, obligatory 12,000th post celebration or something

 

[Furret]

My brother has watched OUAT. Told me it was good so maybe I should also watch it. Then again, I'm watching a lot of shows and I'm reading something atm. Eh whatever

Also, obligatory 12,000th post celebration or something

celebrate furret

 

[Locke 06]

Zoning MU's are fun when they have things that work against each other. Like Yoshi (when I remember that I have an fsmash that can trade with eggs it becomes a better MU instead of MM getting out camped like what happened in some matches I played today :/) and Link (bombs for days).

Matches like MM vs Villager can get tedious fast, and the more boring the game gets, the safer I usually play, increasing the boringness. It's a vicious cycle that I perpetuate, but leads to time outs which I'm fine with.

I almost timed out another MM which led to him fishing for a utilt with 20 seconds left (3-stock 8 minutes). Which was punished with a utilt of my own.

Also, obligatory 12,000th post celebration or something

Woot.

 

[Fernosaur]

Matches like MM vs Villager can get tedious fast, and the more boring the game gets, the safer I usually play, increasing the boringness. It's a vicious cycle that I perpetuate, but leads to time outs which I'm fine with.
.

I fuggin hate the MM vs Villager MU. As you said it's the most boring and frustrating **** ever.

To think this will be the main focus when we finally get to have some duels :'D

 

[Furret]

I fuggin hate the MM vs Villager MU. As you said it's the most boring and frustrating **** ever.

To think this will be the main focus when we finally get to have some duels :'D

when life gives you lemons you pocket them (I know I'm so clever)

 

[Berserker.]

Aggro villager. Let's go~

No seriously, I'd love it if this were possible

 

[Locke 06]

And when your pockets are full of lemons and life is still giving you lemons.........

I'll try to make it less boring. It's good practice for me, because I need to work on being more interesting in matchups like that. I can't say I'll try to make it less frustrating though ^_^;

Edit: Definitely try and use the axe. It's like... the one thing you can do in the MU XD

 

[Furret]

And when your pockets are full of lemons and life is still giving you lemons.........

I'll try to make it less boring. It's good practice for me, because I need to work on being more interesting in matchups like that. I can't say I'll try to make it less frustrating though ^_^;

Edit: Definitely try and use the axe. It's like... the one thing you can do in the MU XD

please my pants alone can handle your lemons

 

[Rizen]

the more boring the game gets, the safer I usually play, increasing the boringness. It's a vicious cycle that I perpetuate, but leads to time outs which I'm fine with.

That's better than what I do. I get bored and go agro; it usually isn't the smartest strategy.

 

[Locke 06]

That's better than what I do. I get bored and go agro; it usually isn't the smartest strategy.

Yeah, I've drilled myself to stay patient. Aggro Mega can get really punishable. But patient & safe/boring aren't completely linked. Gotta keep playing mind games instead of just defaulting to AAA... AAA... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Spoiler

shield drop>utilt punish to finish

 

[Ffamran]

I'm going to drop this here.

TOO BAD! IT'S WALUIGI TIME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[Berserker.]

Ffffffff--- Too much nice avatars

Girl in my avatar is Elsa btw

 

[Furret]

Ffffffff--- Too much nice avatars

Girl in my avatar is Elsa btw

you spelled gorl wrong

 

[Fernosaur]

And when your pockets are full of lemons and life is still giving you lemons.........

I'll try to make it less boring. It's good practice for me, because I need to work on being more interesting in matchups like that. I can't say I'll try to make it less frustrating though ^_^;

Edit: Definitely try and use the axe. It's like... the one thing you can do in the MU XD

Aggro villager. Let's go~

No seriously, I'd love it if this were possible

I'm actually a pretty aggro Villager. Like, I use the zoning tools and whatever, but I much prefer to use all of his CQC than just camp with rockets and pellets. Turnips and nair are like my life. and I get a good chunk of % from his tilts. And yeah I use the axe quite a bit too. Like, not much cause it's laggier than like his smash attacks but yeah.

F**k everyone claiming you have to be a campy Villager, dude, like, f**k them with spiked c**ks.

Against Mega Man, though, yeah it's a real patience test. You can't, like, just go in because it's basically useless, so it's a zone war. Though tbh MM is much better at zoning than Villager is because his saw bs goes through Lloyd and timber, and his lemons are like three times as fast as the pellets. You always end up being the approacher against the blue little tin can ****bot.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Morning zeldas
What goes on here?

 

[Berserker.]

Trying out Diddy with customs

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

How is Diddy with customs?
I've only tried out customs for my mains.....and
Also I don't know how I woke up to this

 

[Macchiato]

Trying out Diddy with customs

Have fun getting nothing out of them Cuz they suck

 

[Berserker.]

I'm still tinkering around with them. They don't suck imo

 

[Macchiato]

I'm still tinkering around with them. They don't suck imo

Sure, if yew compare them to jigglypuffs

 

[UkeNicky]

Is Zelda vs Robin in Zelda's favor?
I absolutely trashed this Robin earlier and I noticed when I play against my friend who mains Robin I don't usually have much trouble using Zelda.

On the flipside I feel like they'd make a really good doubles team.
Team mage <3

Oh and I found this

Spoiler

 

[Macchiato]

Is Zelda vs Robin in Zelda's favor?
I absolutely trashed this Robin earlier and I noticed when I play against my friend who mains Robin I don't usually have much trouble using Zelda.

On the flipside I feel like they'd make a really good doubles team.
Team mage <3

Oh and I found this

Spoiler

Yeah I think it's in her favor. It's really easy to get through

 

[Berserker.]

Battering banana to u-air is so ****ing good

 

[Macchiato]

Battering banana to u-air is so ****ing good

Then yew lose the ability to grab and yew might need to Fthrow to get stage control. Also there's no banana>smash which is a good kill option

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Is Zelda vs Robin in Zelda's favor?
I absolutely trashed this Robin earlier and I noticed when I play against my friend who mains Robin I don't usually have much trouble using Zelda.

On the flipside I feel like they'd make a really good doubles team.
Team mage <3

Oh and I found this

Spoiler

idk, I think Zelda can break into Robins defenses pretty well but I feel its kind of evenish.

personally I think Villager is Zeldas best team partner, he sets up a wall for her to camp behind while he guards the air. Not to mention he can pick up a missed Phantom and chuck it at someone else. Zelda just has to stock tank.

 

[Kofu]

idk, I think Zelda can break into Robins defenses pretty well but I feel its kind of evenish.

personally I think Villager is Zeldas best team partner, he sets up a wall for her to camp behind while he guards the air. Not to mention he can pick up a missed Phantom and chuck it at someone else. Zelda just has to stock tank.

Pocketed Phantoms are so strong lol.

I was playing Crazy Orders last night trying to beat the "20 with Mario" challenge. I had been struggling until I made this set with a Vampire Brawl Badge. I was nearing the end and I realized I only had a few seconds left to win the current match. I managed to KO the computer as the timer was almost out, and then on the "pick your next ticket" screen it said my time remaining was 0:00. Seriously. I took a picture, I'll need to upload it sometime.

I beat the challenge BTW.