Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Fernosaur]

That's kinda sad. I still don't know if losing the ability to KO at ridic low percents is worth the trade of being able to break out of jabs and combos. It trades one of Zelda's "strengths" and sorta compensates in one of her biggest weaknesses.

 

[Macchiato]

That's kinda sad. I still don't know if losing the ability to KO at ridic low percents is worth the trade of being able to break out of jabs and combos. It trades one of Zelda's "strengths" and sorta compensates in one of her biggest weaknesses.

But again yew do add extra recovery, like it wasn't already super good

 

[「 Derk 」]

Wow! You can buffer another attack when you break out of a jab combo with Farore's Squall. I just did a Farore's Squall cancelled Phantom Slash. This could be extremely useful if you can b reak out of moves into something like a fair...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Nayru's Love is fairly decent at breaking out of combos...and since Zelda is light and floaty she can get out of some jabs like RosaLuma's. Not really worth trading Wind for Squall just because of combos, unless you're using Squall in doubles. That's like the only time you maybe should use Squall instead of Wind.

edit:

Wow! You can buffer another attack when you break out of a jab combo with Farore's Squall. I just did a Farore's Squall cancelled Phantom Slash. This could be extremely useful if you can b reak out of moves into something like a fair...

I take it back, this might actually be useful, although most likely in doubles still.

 

[Macchiato]

Wow! You can buffer another attack when you break out of a jab combo with Farore's Squall. I just did a Farore's Squall cancelled Phantom Slash. This could be extremely useful if you can b reak out of moves into something like a fair...

Omg can yew make a video on that

 

[evmaxy54]

Squall only seems useful for Little Mac by sounds of it IMO :/

 

[Fernosaur]

Squall only seems useful for Little Mac by sounds of it IMO :/

It depends... it could also work against Ness (although Nayru's already invalidates his PK Fire by reflecting it). If Squall is able to be an actual combo breaker by pushing advances away, it MIGHT be able to stop aerial strings like Sheik's, Ness's and Diddy's. Ofc that's just speculation and I'm entirely not sure about it.

@ 「 Derk 」 if you need help with more testing I could hop online later tonight and help you test some.

 

[Lavani]

that means that the invincibility frames don't last when the hitboxes are

I'm not hitting the bombs with it, I'm detonating the bomb and then trying to use Penissism before it hits me at varying timings; all of this is before the active frames start, where the invincibility *should* be according to the stuff @ 「 Derk 」 's been showing us.

 

[Fernosaur]

Actually... how does Squall's windbox work on airborne characters? Does it still push them away a great deal?

 

[Lavani]

Actually... how does Squall's windbox work on airborne characters? Does it still push them away a great deal?

Are we talking edgeguarding with its windbox a la Tempest/Gust Cape/Hydro Pump?

Because that sounds silly and potentially good.

EDIT: I'm trying it in training and so far it just looks like a really good way to make the CPU ledge trump me/stagespike me with upB, never mind

 

[Ffamran]

Squall only seems useful for Little Mac by sounds of it IMO :/

If only Squall came with a Lionheart. It's even blue! Zelda should totally have a Lionheart.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Amusingly Freud's Penissism loses to smart bombs too regardless of what frame I try it on, just like Nayru's Love

I'm guessing it just doesn't protect you from unblockables.

The penissism does not come with full cover protection.

This sounds really bad in so many ways.

 

[「 Derk 」]

I forgot to turn up the volume but here it is. Controlling both characters at the same time so its difficult to input multiple attacks back to back lol.

 

[Fernosaur]

Are we talking edgeguarding with its windbox a la Tempest/Gust Cape/Hydro Pump?

Because that sounds silly and potentially good.

I was thinking more about interrupting aerial strings. Like if Ness is coming towards you with the first or second f-air you could try using Squall's frame 1 windbox to mess his combo up. You might still get hit by the first spark but wouldn't eat the entire chain. A frame 1 windbox could also keep opponents from rising up to you or send them upwards, I dunno. Windboxes have always been super weird in Smash.

I guess edgeguarding is also a possibility, though, but I don't think Squall's windbox is as potent to be able to get gimps like hydro pump or tempest.

Edit: Omg D3RK, that actually could help break annoying as **** jabs like Falcon, Sheik, Mac and Falco!

 

[SBphiloz4]

I forgot to turn up the volume but here it is. Controlling both characters at the same time so its difficult to input multiple attacks back to back lol.

This looks very cool. c:

But is it worth giving up the

though? I'm not convinced.

 

[Macchiato]

I forgot to turn up the volume but here it is. Controlling both characters at the same time so its difficult to input multiple attacks back to back lol.

Farores squall just got so much better.

 

[Fernosaur]

@ SBphiloz4 It is definitely a much more defensive approach, but I think it has some potential to break pressure.

And let's be honest, breaking pressure is something Zelda needs a lot :/

 

[SBphiloz4]

I still think Squall should be saved for Doubles. Giving up your best (and worst </3 ) move for something to cover one specific situation doesn't seem to be incredibly useful.

This may indeed be a good idea for some MUs that rely a lot of rapid jab to do damage, and FW is a bit too hard to land on them. I guess against people like Mac or Falcon, you can opt to go Squall, but I really think we gorls should start learning Ferarri's Wind and using it to the fullest of our abilities, as honestly if one move is going to save us from the basement, it's that and not Squall.

 

[Macchiato]

@ SBphiloz4 It is definitely a much more defensive approach, but I think it has some potential to break pressure.

And let's be honest, breaking pressure is something Zelda needs a lot :/

There could be so much to be discovered this could even be better than the elevator

@ 「 Derk 」 does it work on aerial combos like uair or fair strings? Also how do yew buffer it

 

[Lavani]

This looks very cool. c:

But is it worth giving up the

though? I'm not convinced.

it's k gorl, yew get a flashy new elevator!

 

[Gay Ginger]

So I'm moving in a couple weeks and I was going through old boxes stored away in closets and guess what I found...

An AOL "top speed" trial installation pack lmfao

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Macchiato I don't think it will be better than the elevator because FW isn't ONLY the elevator. Sure, it's mainly a great OoS finisher, but it's also a good long distance punish for laggy projectiles or someone dumbly charging a smash attack at a distance. It can also be used to read get up attacks, etc.

Ferrari's is a good move overall, and Squall is probably not that great. However if it turns out Squall can actually break any kind of aerial string it could be a good move because it would compensate one of Zelda's biggest weakness against rushdown characters that rely solely on pressure by interrupting it. It could make some of her worst match ups less terrible, like Peach.

This is all theory ofc

 

[「 Derk 」]

I should start playing around with customs more often. Found a bunch of useless stuff and a couple of awesome things so far tonight lol. It's funny how testing if a move could break out of combos made me find a different move that actually could do it by complete accident. Props to @ Fernosaur for getting me to test that.

Nayru's Rejection may be a reject, but we found something pretty useful because of it!

Also: Farore's Squall is not just a one trick pony. You can use it to gimp players offstage by pushing them away from the stage when they are trying to recover. It can also negate attacks with its wind box (Bouncing Fish for example). Don't think this custom would only be to break out of combos.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato I don't think it will be better than the elevator because FW isn't ONLY the elevator. Sure, it's mainly a great OoS finisher, but it's also a good long distance punish for laggy projectiles or someone dumbly charging a smash attack at a distance. It can also be used to read get up attacks, etc.

Ferrari's is a good move overall, and Squall is probably not that great. However if it turns out Squall can actually break any kind of aerial string it could be a good move because it would compensate one of Zelda's biggest weakness against rushdown characters that rely solely on pressure by interrupting it. It could make some of her worst match ups less terrible, like Peach.

This is all theory ofc

If it breaks uair chains, then that's it. lol we all thought that it was useless

 

[BJN39]

Tbh I'm really impressed at this newfound data on Squall and Nayjection. I wish when did random testing I found things like this. Good stuff @ 「 Derk 」 keep up the awesome work! :D

 

[SBphiloz4]

Well, I guess Farore's Squall wins in style points, haha. Can't say you'll find an opponent silly enough to not notice you moving to the edge of the stage to do that. :3

Still don't think it's worth because it generally makes your recovery worse by making it more predictable, and you lose the raw kill power that Zelda really needs to build momentum without the Wind. Unless you are absolutely confident that you can kill Falcon or Mac or someone else with things OTHER than FW (and like seriously, this is hard), and use FS to POTENTIALLY get rid of jab pressure, it's most definitely not worth the switch.

I still love to see all the work we are doing here with customs and stuff, so I give you all gorls credit. But so far, I still think 1/1/1/1 is Zelda's best set. Adding customs in general so far already hurts her game more than it has. :'c

Remember when I thought this could possibly see some use? LOL

 

[Fernosaur]

I should start playing around with customs more often. Found a bunch of useless stuff and a couple of awesome things so far tonight lol. It's funny how testing if a move could break out of combos made me find a different move that actually could do it by complete accident. Props to @ Fernosaur for getting me to test that.

Nayru's Rejection may be a reject, but we found something pretty useful because of it!

Also: Farore's Squall is not just a one trick pony. You can use it to gimp players offstage by pushing them away from the stage when they are trying to recover. It can also negate attacks with its wind box (Bouncing Fish for example). Don't think this custom would only be to break out of combos.

It's exciting that I helped in finding random advances for Zelda's custom metagame :'D

Another thing I just thought....

What does Squall's windbox do to Luma?

If it breaks uair chains, then that's it. lol we all thought that it was useless

Yeah that's one of the things I was thinking. If we couple it with ledge cancelling like what Lavani showed up there, it could become a somewhat nice option for setups, although it could get old and predictable really quickly.

Can you shield the windbox?

 

[BJN39]

Actually, thinking back to yesterday, I realize when I was looking at the mastercore I saw that Squall had an instant hit-box, but I didn't even think of the possibilities of that!

 

[Mocha]

Yesss, I finally have some offline videos (though not Zelda yet), will update later~

Also, I've gotten in this "habit" (not really a habit but I've been implementing it more) of using Phantom to gimp offstage. Help. And Zelda's Nair offstage is really underrated imo. You can mess up many character's recoveries, and it can even stage spike, or outright kill them.

 

[Ffamran]

I forgot to turn up the volume but here it is. Controlling both characters at the same time so its difficult to input multiple attacks back to back lol.

I just noticed that the Phantom Knight has a glowing Royal Crest on its back. Speaking of glowing symbols, enjoy staring at a man's back.

Thanks, @berserker01 for the video, but man, that U-throw laser disjoint is huge. It happens near 2:33.

 

[Macchiato]

@ 「 Derk 」 today yew R a hero

 

[「 Derk 」]

it's k gorl, yew get a flashy new elevator!

RIP Farore's Wind. A new queen is in town.

Can you shield the windbox?

You can, When your shield is up Zelda just flys through you.

 

[Rizen]

Squall is good but wind is better imo. Too bad Zelda has to loose FW instead of phantom or Din's for the instant wind box.

 

[Macchiato]

RIP Farore's Wind. A new queen is in town.


You can, When your shield is up Zelda just flys through you.

So can it escape uair strings? That's her biggest weakness

 

[Lavani]

Thanks, @berserker01 for the video, but man, that U-throw laser disjoint is huge. It happens near 2:33.

Pfft that tumble animation

ZSS' animation changed so much, it made that laser's hitbox look ridiculous. If you look really closely, you'll actually see her body twist for a frame so that her head is right over it though.

 

[IsmaR]

Another thing I just thought....

What does Squall's windbox do to Luma?

Turns it into a plastic bag in a tornado.

 

[evmaxy54]

I'm gonna have to side with @ SBphiloz4 here for the meantime. It still seems rather situational & we lose our most reliable kill move we have, but it does seem quite usable.

IDK I need to try it out for myself/see results from matches before I drink the Kool-Aid :/

 

[Fernosaur]

So can it escape uair strings? That's her biggest weakness

I don't think that's something @ 「 Derk 」 can test by himself because you need to control two characters. I'll try to get my bf to help me test that later or maybe we could join up online and see if we can manage to get something valuable out of it. I don't think we'll get to the bottom of Squall tonight but let's keep the research open!

 

[「 Derk 」]

So can it escape uair strings? That's her biggest weakness

I think she can, I can't test it by myself because I would have to combo myself and input up B at the same time on a different controller lol. Technically I was escaping the jab combo in the video by DI'ing up and inputting Farore's Squall at the same time then when a jab hit canceled that I had a Phantom Slash input buffered.

 

[BJN39]

Some data things just to note about squall:

* It still can't exactly be overlooked that it has almost a 45 frame startup. If I'm reading the data correctly though the windbox will last pretty much the entire 45 frames. So an edgeguard attempt might be easily stuffed by the windbox. Of course, the windox doesn't have the same horizontal range as FW standard.

* The initial windbox is literally instant. There's no timers or anything saying what frame it comes out it is actually at the top aside the frame speed modifier.

* Since Standard FW actually uses a frame speed modifier to make its reappear animation SLOWER, and squall doesn't, squall has noticably less endlag (Judging by the multiplier difference, roughly 20% faster.) Combined that with that the reappear hit-box on squall has the same massive range as FW, yeah it may do no damage, but if you hit them with it you should be guaranteed safe.

I like what's been found with this move, but I still would pick FW as the more useful choice. Aside the many mentioned upsides of FW, getting that elevator kill is immortally hype.