Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[McKnightlíght]

My tourney match was posted on YouTube!

 

[Alacion]

This'll help you get started.

Then just click the aMSa tab. I really recommend watching his match vs Ally and the Luigi, especially.

Really impressive... how does he do it? I can't even beat a level 9 CPU with him (yet).

 

[Ffamran]

Pikachu gets nothing from customs.
All it gets is Heavy Skull Bash, Distant Thunder and Thunder Wave as other options. Except Heavy Skull Bash.

Doesn't Sonic and Samus get worse custom selections? Falco only gets Void Reflector, Falco Phantasm or Falco Phase - default and meteor option or I-frame dash -, and play style Fire Bird options. For the Blaster customs, Burst isn't worth it and Explosive is weird since I don't know what it could be used for. In 2v2 or free-for-all, Explosive could be useful. Hmm, Explosive Blaster is a bit like Burst Grenade.

Oh, and then there's Zelda's customs.

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Alacion You wanna play, sisbro?

 

[Cenizas]

I thought Samus had good moves in Dense Charge Shot, custom Missiles, Apex Screw Attack AKA Shinespark, and Slip Bomb.

 

[MDAVE]

I think the names for the custom moves are the best thing about them, lol.

 

[Lavani]

Doesn't Sonic and Samus get worse customs? Falco only gets Void Reflector, Falco Phantasm or Falco Phase - default and meteor option or I-frame dash -, and play style Fire Bird options. For the Blaster customs, Burst isn't worth it and Explosive is weird since I don't know what it could be used for. In 2v2 or free-for-all, Explosive could be useful. Hmm, Explosive Blaster is a bit like Burst Grenade.

Oh, and then there's Zelda's customs.

Thunder Wave and Distant Thunder are just "more options" instead of upgrades to his kit, and Heavy Skull Bash is better than default but it's still Skull Bash. He doesn't necessarily get "better", just "more varied".

And yeah, like @ Cenizas said Samus actually has great customs.

 

[Mocha]

Really impressive... how does he do it? I can't even beat a level 9 CPU with him (yet).

Don't feel bad, I struggle vs them too.

To start off, he's very comfortable with his short hops, as seen in his usage of his fair. Greninja struggles with short hopping due to the height of his jump, so the timing is really tricky to get down. Then there's the usage of Hydro Pump, which aMSa uses not only as a recovery, but a means of resetting himself/keeping opponent away, and generally controlling the stage.

Greninja's smashes are laggy, so use with caution. He also struggles out of shield, so sometimes it's better to not even challenge someone on your shield, and just run away. Though there might be some situational benefit for Shadow Sneak oos.

Also learn to space with Shurikens and mix ups with b reversals, wave bouncing, etc. This is all a very rough explanation, but really, the answer is to just practice. It's very frustrating though, so it takes an astounding amount of patience to be able to use this character. Oh, and playing RollGlory is not recommended for the sake of your sanity.

 

[Alacion]

@ Alacion You wanna play, sisbro?

No sorry, stepping out soon. Another time!

@ Mocha Whyyyy is his nair so hard to land? I can't land sweetspot usmash either! What even are his kill moves?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I might join the Valentines tourney and spam Nayru's Love.

But if nobody appreciates that won't you feel some Nayru's Rejection?

 

[Cenizas]

These commentators should really learn how to organize their own tournament before they participate in it.

 

[Ffamran]

I thought Samus had good moves in Dense Charge Shot, custom Missiles, Apex Screw Attack AKA Shinespark, and Slip Bomb.

I don't have all the customs yet, except for one or two missing from Dr. Mario's of all people. Well, that's nice... IF ONLY I HAD THEM, I WOULD TRY THEM OUT! At least I have Ganondorf's Dark Fists, Flame Chain, Wizard's Dropkick, and Warlock Blade.

Thunder Wave and Distant Thunder are just "more options" instead of upgrades to his kit, and Heavy Skull Bash is better than default but it's still Skull Bash. He doesn't necessarily get "better", just "more varied".

And yeah, like @ Cenizas said Samus actually has great customs.

Thanks for quoting the wrong person. @ Soul. was looking for this info.

 

[Lavani]

What even are his kill moves?

Upward substitute around 80%; may need to combo Substitute>uair at lower percents
Sweetspot usmash around 100%; generally antiair, but can be combo'd off of dtilt with really strict timing or weak hit nair.
fsmash around 130% on a hard read
Shadow Sneak can kill around 100~120% if you can manage to surprise your opponent with it
Dash Attack>Fair around 130% near the ledge
Uthrow at ~165% (around 130% with rage)

Generally my Greninja kills are either fsmash reads or bair gimps.

Thanks for quoting the wrong person. @ Soul. was looking for this info.

He mentioned Pikachu's options, you seemed to think other characters got less out of it than him (two that actually get more out of customs than him, imo), I was trying to explain to you that they don't exactly make Pikachu better.

 

[Mocha]

No sorry, stepping out soon. Another time!

@ Mocha Whyyyy is his nair so hard to land? I can't land sweetspot usmash either! What even are his kill moves?

You have to fast fall land with nair, and if you can do something after, such as a jab, then you're doing it right. Just be careful, because it's punishable on your opponent's shield if you mess it up. I think the sweet spot of his upsmash is directly above him, similarly to Sheik.

Greninja's most reliable kill move for me has been up throw at about 160ish, a bit less with rage and low ceiling

Honestly though, fair, his smashes, back air (really close to the side) and up air are all "kill moves" and the situational shadow sneak/substitute. I've actually become so dependent on his up throw to kill, that I pummel as much as I predict I can to get every bit of damage on the way to 160 lol

@ Lavani has a more accurate description/strings of moves that can kill.

 

[Soul.]

Doesn't Sonic and Samus get worse custom selections? Falco only gets Void Reflector, Falco Phantasm or Falco Phase - default and meteor option or I-frame dash -, and play style Fire Bird options. For the Blaster customs, Burst isn't worth it and Explosive is weird since I don't know what it could be used for. In 2v2 or free-for-all, Explosive could be useful. Hmm, Explosive Blaster is a bit like Burst Grenade.

Oh, and then there's Zelda's customs.

Sonic doesn't get anything from customs. Hammer Spin Dash is apparently "good" but I don't know.
Samus has great customs which can make her rise up a tier. Probably from low tier → mid tier.

And as for Pikachu...
Heavy Skull Bash is quite possibly Pika's best option when jab locking, the second being forward smash.
Distant Thunder is another KO option after an up throw. Could possibly be used vs. floaty characters.
Thunder Wave is Pikachu's reply to ZSS' Paralyzer.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

@ Lavani @ Mocha Is it true Greninja has a custom shuriken that is a guranteed KO setup?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I've never tested any of Ganon's customs. I don't even know if they are good lol

 

[Lavani]

@ Lavani @ Mocha Is it true Greninja has a custom shuriken that is a guranteed KO setup?

Shifting Shuriken combos into usmash, yes. It's delicious.

It's nowhere near as good a zoning projectile as the default though, and you can't charge it.

I've never tested any of Ganon's customs. I don't even know if they are good lol

Spoiler

neutralB 2, sideB 2/3, upB 2/3, and downB 2 are all great, I love customdorf personally

 

[Mocha]

I still need to unlock Greninja's customs, as well as a whole bunch of other chars, but been lazy.

 

[Lavani]

I still need to unlock Greninja's customs, as well as a whole bunch of other chars, but been lazy.

It's so hard on 3DS ;_;

55 hours of solo mode play time and I'm still missing like...70 I think okay actually it's 30, that was a gross exaggeration lol. A lot of those are critical ones in AA's custom moveset project though

 

[Mocha]

It's so hard on 3DS ;_;

55 hours of solo mode play time and I'm still missing like...70 I think

I hate the fact that you can obtain customs you already have. Like sometimes I'll go on Target Blast, and when I unlock customs, I realize I already have some of them. So dumb, it's like grinding for monster parts in Monster Hunter, and you keep getting the same materials when you're looking for something that has like a 2% chance to drop.

Also, I think there's supposed to be a faster/easier way to unlock all customs, no?

 

[Lavani]

I hate the fact that you can obtain customs you already have. Like sometimes I'll go on Target Blast, and when I unlock customs, I realize I already have some of them. So dumb, it's like grinding for monster parts in Monster Hunter, and you keep getting the same materials when you're looking for something that has like a 2% chance to drop.

Also, I think there's supposed to be a faster/easier way to unlock all customs, no?

On Wii U, you can apparently get them all in like a weekend with Crazy Orders or custom Palutena in Trophy Rush, and you can semi-idle Smash Tour to get them for free too.

On 3DS it's pretty much just "Run Classic a lot and use the Home button to cheese the roulette", or buy a PowerSave and cheat your way to having all of them.

 

[Farorae]

On Wii U, you can apparently get them all in like a weekend with Crazy Orders or custom Palutena in Trophy Rush, and you can semi-idle Smash Tour to get them for free too.

On 3DS it's pretty much just "Run Classic a lot and use the Home button to cheese the roulette", or buy a PowerSave and cheat your way to having all of them.

Yeah I can get like 5-10 customs in a crazy order run and it takes like 7-15 min prob. I still don't have them all but I also don't play crazy orders much

 

[Mocha]

On Wii U, you can apparently get them all in like a weekend with Crazy Orders or custom Palutena in Trophy Rush, and you can semi-idle Smash Tour to get them for free too.

On 3DS it's pretty much just "Run Classic a lot and use the Home button to cheese the roulette", or buy a PowerSave and cheat your way to having all of them.

Ooh thanks, I need to try that. Custom Palutena, eh? Lightweight + nairs?

Lightweight throws me off when it comes to Palutena's jump and she suddenly becomes a frog goddess

 

[Lavani]

Ooh thanks, I need to try that. Custom Palutena, eh? Lightweight + nairs?

Heavenly Light, actually. Just hold B and destroy everything before it even falls!

Rare footage of Heavenly Light not being a waste of a moveslot

 

[Soul.]

I unlocked every custom move a long time ago.
Smash Run, Smash Run, Smash Run, Smash Run.

 

[Mocha]

Heavenly Light, actually. Just hold B and destroy everything before it even falls!

Rare footage of Heavenly Light not being a waste of a moveslot

OMG THERE IS A USE OF HEAVENLY LIGHT WAT IS THIS
thank you~

 

[Farorae]

I personally just go to crazy orders with Ganon, full damage equipment with bomb and 10 sec of invincibility on first hit just in case they don't die from bomb

 

[Gay Ginger]

Guys I'm in the winner's bracket Quarter finals (round 5) as Zelda!

 

[Cenizas]

Zelda seems like she would be good in crazy orders, considering you can actually land LKs and Din's semi-reliably.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Just popping in here to say I have played a real life Zelda main a few days ago, one from this board no less.

As a Falco main, I was confused and mildly frightened. Overall I rate the matchup a solid 45-55 Zelda's favor on flat stages, 50-50 anywhere else. You guys can outpoke us, but can you break through our defenses just as easily when you're on the approach?

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Welp, I'm out. I got to losers round 4, which is disappointing to say the least. I wouldn't be salty if the guy I lost to was good, but he really wasn't. He was about average, it's just the character he played as that ruined me. DOC. I. hate. Doc and Mario. They both give me such a difficult time no matter who I play as. I won the first match as Robin, lost the second as Zelda, and lost the 3rd as ZSS. I guess this is what I get for playing Zero suit Spamus I died to an SD, I miss clicked and went for a side b instead of a up b. Someone make me not salty.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Just popping in here to say I have played a real life Zelda main a few days ago, one from this board no less.

As a Falco main, I was confused and mildly frightened. Overall I rate the matchup a solid 45-55 Zelda's favor on flat stages, 50-50 anywhere else. You guys can outpoke us, but can you break through our defenses just as easily when you're on the approach?

@ Ffamran You're up bruh

 

[Soul.]

Does Ganon's Down B 2 have low lag?
inb4 scrubs spam it

 

[Cenizas]

Welp, I'm out. I got to losers round 4, which is disappointing to say the least. I wouldn't be salty if the guy I lost to was good, but he really wasn't. He was about average, it's just the character he played as that ruined me. DOC. I. hate. Doc and Mario. They both give me such a difficult time no matter who I play as. I won the first match as Robin, lost the second as Zelda, and lost the 3rd as ZSS. I guess this is what I get for playing Zero suit Spamus I died to an SD, I miss clicked and went for a side b instead of a up b. Someone make me not salty.

You da man in our eyes gorl, reppin our gorl Zelda. Be proud of yourself.

 

[Ffamran]

He mentioned Pikachu's options, you seemed to think other characters got less out of it than him (two that actually get more out of customs than him, imo), I was trying to explain to you that they don't exactly make Pikachu better.

Options alone can make a character better, but how good those options are depends.

Does Ganon's Down B 2 have low lag?
inb4 scrubs spam it

I think Wizard's Dropkick has more start-up than Wizard's Foot. I don't know about end lag, though. One thing for sure is that I believe Wizard's Dropkick attacks at an angle which not a lot of moves do in SSB.

 

[MDAVE]

One of the best customs for Palutena is Super Speed, here is a video of Kinuski demonstrating its power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT4X9mirHTE

 

[Lavani]

Does Ganon's Down B 2 have low lag?
inb4 scrubs spam it

As far as I'm aware it's not any different lagwise from the default. Main changes are:

+Short jump at the start gives Ganondorf an approach against projectiles
+Aids horizontal recovery
+Doesn't shorten in distance when hitting an opponent, so the ledge cancel distance is consistent compared to the default
-Less damage/knockback

It isn't a straight upgrade, but it's definitely a useful move.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Welp, I'm out. I got to losers round 4, which is disappointing to say the least. I wouldn't be salty if the guy I lost to was good, but he really wasn't. He was about average, it's just the character he played as that ruined me. DOC. I. hate. Doc and Mario. They both give me such a difficult time no matter who I play as. I won the first match as Robin, lost the second as Zelda, and lost the 3rd as ZSS. I guess this is what I get for playing Zero suit Spamus I died to an SD, I miss clicked and went for a side b instead of a up b. Someone make me not salty.

You did your best, thank you for repping us <3 (Robin too but I know not everyone plays him/her lol)
Also, some unsaltiness:

Spoiler

Or you can do some yoga

I know it's irritating when you lose to someone bad (I have some pretty bad with that) but being angry ain't gonna do anything for ya. Ik it's hard, but just try to calm down and think about how much that person will get destroyed by another person as good as you

 

[Mocha]

Welp, I'm out. I got to losers round 4, which is disappointing to say the least. I wouldn't be salty if the guy I lost to was good, but he really wasn't. He was about average, it's just the character he played as that ruined me. DOC. I. hate. Doc and Mario. They both give me such a difficult time no matter who I play as. I won the first match as Robin, lost the second as Zelda, and lost the 3rd as ZSS. I guess this is what I get for playing Zero suit Spamus I died to an SD, I miss clicked and went for a side b instead of a up b. Someone make me not salty.

Aw, well good effort. Yeah, I just can't wifi. I can't. Doesn't matter which char I use, it's often an unpleasant experience :/