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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Lorde

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How do you go about training individual units?
here's a useful guide that i use for max sp gain when leveling units

also wait until bonus sp days to level up units. otherwise, you're just missing out on sp for no reason

That's crazy. I may have to switch to my untrained S!Camilla though
it looks like your -def sp!camilla would still survive being initiated on by a +atk L&D3 bb+ b!cordelia, so you might not have to change after all. you just basically have to be at full health because she would only live with 4 hp (the -spd one would live with 12 hp). it's really up to you as to which one you want to use
 
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EODM07

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Morning gorls. How's everyone doing? :4zelda:

Been out shopping today with my mother and grandmother. So I at least got out and helped.

Also, the English version for Yosuke & Linne's reveal trailer got released. So we will be expecting more news in October. :yeahboi:

I see we were talking about Project Octopath Traveler; I really loved the demo, it was fantastic. The 2D Sprites with the 3D Environments reminded me of Grandia (Which utilized sprites with 3D areas) and the choose your character thing reminds me of Seiken Densentsu 3. Since you could choose between six characters and have another join you on your journey; whereas the ones you didn't pick would be around the world on their own adventures.

Btw, I checked that old comment thread that suddenly spawned on Miiverse between myself and that one guy who got salty from me telling him he was on KnowYourMeme. After a year of not replying; he finally made one more comment. Calling me a pathetic weasel and then ending with "Sweet dreams loser." :secretkpop:

The funny thing is I completely forgot about him.

 
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Ffamran

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"Oh, I'll do my second and last summon with the new banner." *gets another Elincia*
3* Bartre: +HP, -Spd.

4* Catria: +Def, -Atk.

3* Clarine: +Res, -Spd.

5* Elincia: +HP, -Def. The opposite of my first Elincia.

3 Laslow: +Res, -HP.

If I could give away units, I would totally give you an Elincia, Lorde Lorde . I'm calling this a mulligan. I swear if I get a third Elincia... This is like what happened with Soren where he showed up in two consecutive summons and kind of Linde except she appeared twice on a banner. Just give me Nephenee, game. I would be okay with Oscar or any off-focus characters that I don't have like Camilla, Hinoka, both Ikes, Julia, Minerva, etc. as well.

Edit: Forgot about this, but Elincia's shenanigans means Ninian is the only Kippu character to not appear twice.

Also, I think I'm gonna use the +HP, -Def one. Basically the same stats as neutral Cordelia, but if she had more resistance and even though she shouldn't be taking hits, I had Takumi getting screwed over with -HP yesterday, especially when it came to magic attacks he could have survived, but -4 HP killed his chances at that. Too many -HP units and ones with average or lower HP dropping even lower really annoys me let alone high HP characters dropping lower like with summer Xander making his default skills, especially Infantry Pulse, not as useful.
 
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Y2Kay

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I pulled an Oscar with +Atk -Hp, giving him an offensive spread of 36/34. Should I build as a brave lance or fire sweep?

:150:
 

Cenizas

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Yall thirsty heauxs, why are you even spending orbs on this focus when Elincia and probably Nephenee will likely be featured in the Tempest focus without bait characters like Oscar. I'm at the very least saving until I see who shows up in it, and you guys should too and not get bamboozled by another bad cav. I did take my free summon though and ended up getting +hp -def Alm, so I'm happy that I finally have Windsweep fodder :secretkpop:
 

Lorde

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i'm literally only summoning red orbs and still haven't gotten elincia

i don't even care about oscar and nephenee

and i'm summoning for her now because i'm too impatient to wait for the tt to start
 

Lil Puddin

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Gorl, why would you be jelly

I've wasted a billion orbs and haven't gotten anything good
With 5% I'd get 3+ 5*s like during Hero Fest. Those were the good ol' days.

I pulled an Oscar with +Atk -Hp, giving him an offensive spread of 36/34. Should I build as a brave lance or fire sweep?

:150:
Firesweep usually wants a ton of speed for guaranteed doubles. If he's your strongest possible Brave (Lance) Boi then go for it.
 

Buddhahobo

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Persona kids, Persona squids.
Dragon Ball Fighter Z has added an original female character, Android 21.
Makes sense, tbh.

The android arc was all about robots and time travel and alternate dimensions, and they already said that the plot of the same was going to be some sort of evil android appocolpyse led by an evil Android 16. She's probably native to whatever timeline that 16 is from, as opposed to someone rebuilding 16 (like Gero sort of did in GT to make Super 17) or reprogramming him (which they did already in Xenoverse 2).

And how could you not mention them revealing Yamcha and Tien?

Funny in a sense because I always thought Cell was the 21st Android.
It's...complicated. Androids made by Gero were showing up all the way back in the original Dragonball; Android 8 was a pretty memorable supporting character from one of the Red Ribbon Army arcs. But the big thing is that they were androids; humans + robots. The amount of each changed around a lot (16 is all robot which is why Cell can't absorb him, 17 and 18 much less so, and Android 20 is Dr. Gero himself with robotic supplements), but Cell was a fully biological creation. That means he probably wouldn't be counted in the Android numbering scheme as he'd be the first of his kind.

My personal opinion is Android 21 is from a timeline that doesn't involve Androids 17 and 18 killing Dr. Gero for some reason, which is something I'm pretty sure happened in all three timelines (Normal timeline, Future Trunk's timeline, Failed Future timeline Cell came from). IIRC, the entire reason Gero even gave Cell the ability to absorb 17 and 18 was in case they betrayed the Doctor, probably as a final act of revenge.
 

Y2Kay

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Oscar is really underrated. Though offensive lance cavs aren't to needed for the meta with Camus and Rhein, he still the best one out there right now.

I thing I'm gonna make him brave lance and giv firesweep L to Peri since Oscar +Atk and Peri is +Spe

:150:
 

Burgundy

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I don't need a Firesweep Oscar cause I have my Sully and another Roderick with a good nature that I need to build, but if I ever get Oscar with a good nature I wouldn't mind giving him a Brave Lance. Though I'm definitely not hoping for him most of all
I'm kinda eh on this banner. Idk much about Ike's games. Nephenee has cool art and the Slaying Lance is good, and Elincia is also good but I'm just summoning to summon
I just need a bartre. Where tf are you now, you were everywhere months ago
 

Lil Puddin

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Oscar is really underrated. Though offensive lance cavs aren't to needed for the meta with Camus and Rhein, he still the best one out there right now.

I thing I'm gonna make him brave lance and giv firesweep L to Peri since Oscar +Atk and Peri is +Spe

:150:
Oscar is pretty nice, but Nephnee is the one that outshines him. She comes with Powercreep Lance+... I mean Slaying Lance+ and her art is gorgeous; Neph's VA apparently forgot she was supposed to mimick a somewhat shy country girl I guess? Not bad, just not accurate. Oscar seems a bit odd in his neutral stance in his art, but he has the better voice work for sure.

Personally I'm still waiting for the +SPD Peri or maybe +ATK Peri because she is the Crazy Waifu we all need. But at the same time, Cavalry Units are kind of boring to me except Brave Lyn. They have worse stats except for the magic using ones/archer gorl because they have almost the same stats as the Infantry Units of the same type.
 

Ffamran

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Yall thirsty heauxs, why are you even spending orbs on this focus when Elincia and probably Nephenee will likely be featured in the Tempest focus without bait characters like Oscar. I'm at the very least saving until I see who shows up in it, and you guys should too and not get bamboozled by another bad cav. I did take my free summon though and ended up getting +hp -def Alm, so I'm happy that I finally have Windsweep fodder :secretkpop:
Well, I just do two summons on new, regular units banners and splurge on seasonal and banners that I really want units from which so far has only been the CYL banner. It's just that by some miracle, I ended up getting two Elincias.

Anyway, you mentioning the Tempest Trials banner made me realize that the new banner overlaps with the TT and the new units are probably going to bonus units.

I don't think the TT banner will have any of the Dauntless Crimeans since their banner would end 6 days into the trials, so we would have had plenty of time to get and train any of them. It's probably just to going to be Ike, Mist, Soren, and Titania since the datamined dialogue had them and all of the TT have the dialogue characters as bonus units. If that's the case and if the Dauntless Crimeans are all bonus units, then there's no room for anyone else unless one of the x1.2 bonus units isn't an Askr unit, but CYL Ike or Sanaki instead which would suck for anyone who didn't pick CYL Ike as their free CYL summon or didn't get at least 4* Soren or Titania since everyone else is 5*-only or in the case of the Black Knight, gotten by playing TT.
 
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Lorde

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I have been bleßT
IMG_2134.PNG
IMG_2135.PNG
Both of them are +def -res

Honestly so happy to have both of them❤❤❤
 

Lorde

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The same IV's as my Eph, I love him. 35 defense is great.
yeah, i've always wanted to get him, but 5* exclusives are dumb

tbh i didn't think i'd get him, but i guess the rng gods felt bad that i got up to a 6% pity rate before finally pulling elincia

i think my +spd -def nino is going to be my next 5* promotion, so i'll have to train up ephraim so he can babysit her

i'm glad i got decent ivs for both ephraim and elincia. i would have died if she were -atk or -spd (though i still would have trained her up and used her ofc)
 

Ffamran

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i would have died if she were -atk or -spd (though i still would have trained her up and used her ofc)
The funny thing is that with Amiti, -Atk Elincia would be on par with any Brave melee unit with 34 attack and 39 speed and -Spd Elincia with 37 attack and 36 speed. Amiti's stats are really good and really generous to her.

So, -Atk Elincia would be like a +Atk Athena while -Spd Elincia would be like +Atk Lucina. Not having either bane would be the best, but she's still pretty good considering other Brave units have to deal with 3 less MT and 3 less speed.

Anyway, congratulations on getting Elincia and another unit who isn't another Elincia. :p
 
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Lorde

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Tbh Amiti and Elincia are stupid

Who thought it was a good idea to give an 11 mt brave weapon with a -2 spd penalty to a unit with 34/36 offensive stats
 
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Lil Puddin

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dear goddess i cant get over this help me pls i am 2 drunk 4 this helppppp

I have been bleßT
Both of them are +def -res

Honestly so happy to have both of them❤❤❤
Dis is why you want higher %, gorlo. You get the goodies from the sass goddess or some junk yeeeeeeeeeee.

Tbh Amiti and Elincia are stupid

Who thought it was a good idea to give an 11 mt brave weapon with a -2 spd penalty to a unit with 34/36 offensive stats
Also to make up for the lack of good red fliers you silly gorl. :^)
 

EODM07

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Morning girls. How's everyone doing? :4zelda:

Finally got to unlocking the Hero Brella Replica. But now gotta do it again for the remaining 7 Weapons that I didn't use through every stage. (Stage 19 brings me suffering.) I got a game over on that stage twice. Once from not understanding how it worked, then again with the Brella. The range really did put me off, but thankfully due to upgrading the weapon, I did do it; gonna try and do all stages with the Roller now.

Also, I'm planning on pre-ordering Mario Odyssey, Sonic Forces Bonus Edition and the Collector's Edition of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Makes it easier on me, since I'm planning on getting Samus Returns as well. Any leftover, I'll either get an amiibo or purchase a gift card.

 
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Cress!

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It's 3 AM, that means it's the perfect time to post some Warriors videos!
Sakura gameplay was shown off and Validar was shown as an enemy for the first time in such a low quality that it makes graphics from the late 90's look beautiful.
Before I say anything else, yes I know that Validar was shown in that Famitsu scan of History mode, but this is the first time he's been shown in-game. He's probably gonna be just an enemy at the start, before he and whatever other villains are in the game are unlocked to be playable later akin to HW and Psycho Lana, Corrin if he was hot (because fire is hot, get it. I'm deprived of sleep, anything seems funny rn), and Purple Smoke Cloud Man.
ANYWAYS, Sakura's segment starts of at 5:05. They sadly don't use very many of her moves and seem to spam 1 a lot so I can't tell very well what her focus is, but compared to Takumi she's more crowd-based while her brother is more 1v1 based. Pair Ups were also briefly shown where Sakura and Lissa (best characters, healer lolis that kill everything are always great) paired up, stood next to each other for a few seconds, then comboed their specials. I hope that there's more to pair-ups than that.
 

Lorde

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dear goddess i cant get over this help me pls i am 2 drunk 4 this helppppp


Dis is why you want higher %, gorlo. You get the goodies from the sass goddess or some junk yeeeeeeeeeee.


Also to make up for the lack of good red fliers you silly gorl. :^)
But Elincia was the only 5* I got from the Crimean banner

I even pulled the rest of the stones when I got her, but only got 3-4* units rip

Ephraim was from the Threaten Defense banner

edit: forgot that i got a 5* seth on the crimean banner, but that was before the 6% pity streak
 
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Lil Puddin

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But Elincia was the only 5* I got from the Crimean banner

I even pulled the rest of the stones when I got her, but only got 3-4* units rip

Ephraim was from the Threaten Defense banner

edit: forgot that i got a 5* seth on the crimean banner, but that was before the 6% pity streak
So your luck was super bad and then super good.

wow

I need some of that bad luck gorlo. Since whenever I get 5% I usually get double 5*. Tho tbh I don't care about 5*s I just want:
+ATK/-RES Hinata (adorkable buff boi)
+ATK/-DEF Felicia (pls pls pls pls top of my wish list aaaaaaaaaaa)
+SPD Draug (imo best Sword Armor atm since he can QuadStrike also he is a cutie pie) BK may replace him kinda.
+SPD Peri (yandere waifu)
+SPD FCorrin (dragon dork yeeee)
+SPD Elise (actual 5* and also the only healer that can be an offensive healer decently atm cricricri)
+SPD Odin

WHERE DEEZ GORLS @
I DUN WANT 5*S FOREVER
I WANT TO ASSEMBLE MY GORL SQUAD
YOU SASSLESS EVIL GAME OMG

Oh and I guess +ATK or +SPD Matthew too. He's kind of a cutie patootie. (Until Abs The Green Assassin joins the game ofc)
 

Lorde

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I need some of that bad luck gorlo. Since whenever I get 5% I usually get double 5*. Tho tbh I don't care about 5*s I just want:
I've had a memo in the notes section of my phone for months now about which skills I need to complete builds and which units I want to build up

Currently, my list is this:
  • +res Camilla
  • +spd Titania
  • +atk Kagerou
  • +spd Hana
  • +atk/+spd Caeda
  • +atk Reinhardt
  • +atk -spd Sophia
  • Elise (preferably +atk or +spd)
  • +atk -hp/spd/res Hinata
  • literally any Fates!Leon and SoV!Leon
  • +res -spd Gwendolyn
  • +def -spd Henry
There are more units that I want, but they're seasonal/limited units (still crying about not getting spring camilla)

I also have a ton of units that I need to finish building. I have a +atk -def Lilina that I want to give Raudrraven, but she's like level 30ish from before SI was released and it'd be a lot of work to replace her entire moveset.

Also, I've somehow never managed to summon a -spd Gwendolyn. I have a billion of her, but literally none of them are -spd wtf. I just want a blue Sheena that I can use to wall all blues and reds.
 
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Lorde

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I may or may not have pulled 5 Su!Corrins
IMG_2136.PNG
I'll give her Blárblade+ eventually and probably replace B Tomebreaker since blue mages aren't that big of a deal to my flier team
 
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Ffamran

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Tbh Amiti and Elincia are stupid

Who thought it was a good idea to give an 11 mt brave weapon with a -2 spd penalty to a unit with 34/36 offensive stats
At least it didn't have its 15 Mt from RD.

I have no idea why Amiti's stats are like that in Heroes, but when you think about it, Dire Thunder also kind of breaks what you would think a legendary Brave weapon would have, but it's definitely not as severe as with Amiti. Dire Thunder keeps the -5 speed that Brave weapons have, but is 1 Mt higher than when comparing a regular weapon to a legendary weapon which in this case would be like a Silver tome has 13 Mt while a legendary tome has 14, so a Brave ranged weapon having 7 Mt would imply a legendary Brave ranged would have 8 Mt. Not as bad until you figure that resistance is the weaker of the defensive stats. Amiti breaks both Mt and speed implications. A Brave melee has 8 Mt while Heroes' Amiti has 11 Mt. PoR's Amiti has 9 Mt which might be a bit too weak in Heroes considering defense is generally higher than resistance and if Amiti was 9 Mt, -5 speed, it would be pretty crappy compared to Dire Thunder, a ranged Brave tome. 9 Mt, -2 speed could work, but 10 Mt, -5 speed would be fine too since that would imply legendary Brave weapons would only have 2 more Mt than regular Brave weapons.

I looked at the Brave weapons page on FE's wiki and apparently Amiti and Dire Thunder are the only legendary Brave weapons other than Brenthunder and Salia Lance from TearRing Saga and Brenthunder is basically TearRing's Dire Thunder. Aside from Thracia's Master weapons which are apparently weaker and more common Brave weapons in Thracia 776, everything else are "named" weapons like Celica's Gale and Eirika's Blade in Awakening or just have different names because they aren't the usual axes, bows, lances, and swords; Fates' Lightning, Snake Spirit, Soldier's Knife, or Waste. Also, there's TearRing's Gatling Bow which is a better version of the Brave Bow since it shoots four times.

Ignoring Amiti's dumb stats in Heroes, Amiti marks the last weapon that can be a legendary Brave weapon unless they make up a weapon for someone, have an alternate character use one of their named weapons like alternate green mage Celica with Celica's Gale, or introduce one in a future FE game. I could see the Master Sword as being a personal sword for a Thracia 776 character, but it would probably end up being weaker than Amiti like it's 11 Mt, but at the cost of -5 speed instead of -2.

I may or may not have pulled 5 Su!Corrins
I hate you. :p
 
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Lil Puddin

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Wow they are all my Dream Daddies because they're probably Zelda mains too. :^)


tbh I wish I could pull off a Sailor Moon cosplay

I may or may not have pulled 5 Su!Corrins
I'll give her Blárblade+ eventually and probably replace B Tomebreaker since blue mages aren't that big of a deal to my flier team
Then you don't need that heaux Bunilla. She's a nuker anyway, which is nice, but I prefer something that can either nuke or double if need be. Which would be Su!Forrin. I'd rather run Cherche as my Green Gorl since she is vicious and DA BESS FLYING MAID GORL around.
 
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Burgundy

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Man I feel lame for probably being one of the very few who is satisfied for what FE Warriors is gonna be. I guess since I've only played Awakening, SoV, and a bit of Sacred Stones, I don't mind the limited game diversity. I'm just excited to play the game, I hope it keeps me interested as long as HW did
 

Lavani

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I probably wouldn't mind the character selection so much if Awakening wasn't one of the main games it was going to pull from. Cherche is the only character I liked in the whole cast, and she was still just okay. I'm cool with the rest, I just hope there's more GBA rep (I'm guessing there eventually will be via DLC).

It wasn't actually doing much to catch my interest (haven't been keeping up on trailers, but it wasn't looking as fun as HW to me), but the Warriors version of Justice RIP's got me hyped for it again.
 

Cress!

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Man I feel lame for probably being one of the very few who is satisfied for what FE Warriors is gonna be. I guess since I've only played Awakening, SoV, and a bit of Sacred Stones, I don't mind the limited game diversity. I'm just excited to play the game, I hope it keeps me interested as long as HW did
I'm mostly in it for being a Warriors game. Even though I have played a good variety of Fire Emblem games, I don't care at all how the roster ends up. I only care about the movesets. :p
They could replace every character with the Fighting Polygon Team in their beautiful low-poly glory and it wouldn't affect my enjoyment at all.

Also the music is great or something too
 

Buddhahobo

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ANYWAYS, Sakura's segment starts of at 5:05. They sadly don't use very many of her moves and seem to spam 1 a lot so I can't tell very well what her focus is, but compared to Takumi she's more crowd-based while her brother is more 1v1 based.
...Those are the exact same moves as Takumi I think? Three arrow formation, jump up into air and do some sort of green sonic boom explosion that creates a green hurricane that follows for a bit.

That's almost as disappointing as Hinoka's moveset not showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that her favorite Sonic the Hedgehog character is Tails.

I don't care at all how the roster ends up. I only care about the movesets. :p
For the vast most part, I'm on this boat too. It was the movesets that really made HW the surprise hit it was. They had style, they had grace, and the user would make a funny face.

But I also would have bought HW for Ganondorf's beautiful crimson mane, cause he's worth it. So roster matters too, at least just to make sure they look cool.

 

Ffamran

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...Those are the exact same moves as Takumi I think? Three arrow formation, jump up into air and do some sort of green sonic boom explosion that creates a green hurricane that follows for a bit.
There's not much you can do with just bows? Huang Zhong has similar moves too and Dynasty Warriors isn't as flashy as FE Warriors or Hyrule Warriors. I would not be surprised if Sun Shangxiang and Xiahou Yuan had similar movesets when they used bows which was DW6 for Sun Shangxiang and Strikeforce and DW7 for Xiahou Yuan. Sun Shangxiang usually wields chakrams, but she used a bow in DW6 for whatever reason and Huang Zhong and Xiahou Yuan usually differentiate from each other if they also use a different weapon like Huang Zhong would use a sword while Xiahou Yuan would use a metal rod and in some games, Huang Zhong used only bows while Xiahou Yuan used a rod and bow.

You'd have to pair the bow with something else like another weapon or have them use hand-to-hand combat which they didn't do for Sakura or Takumi and probably won't because it seems they're making it so characters only have one equipped weapon and other weapons appear as part of specials if they're used alongside different weapon like Lissa's staff when she's using an axe or Robin's Levin Sword when they use magic. I think miscellaneous weapons could appear and if that's the case, archer Gaius, Niles, and Nina could easily be unique since as thieves, you'd expect them to have other gear like bombs, traps, or whatever.

Otherwise, if you just have bows and nothing else, there's not much you can do beyond shoot an arrow regardless of what type of bow you're using from normal bows to stuff like the Greatbows of Dark Souls. The only thing I can think of that doesn't change the bow drastically like if they had someone fight with a transforming bow like Pit's or Bloodborne's Simon's Bowblade is have the character use the arrow as a makeshift sword or spear which could look ridiculous.

What also doesn't help is that unless they show a character's entire moveset, you can't see everything. I remember DW games having one particular combo that is shared by like almost everyone. I think it was an uppercut-type move to get you in the air for extra damage which itself is a common combo or move in hack 'n' slash games and a couple of characters shared rapid slash or rapid stab combos that weren't their normal attack combo which I can only remember Yukimura Sanada having in SW games.

Here's a video of Huang Zhong in DW8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTKxVk31HcM. Notice at 0:33 how he also has a shoot a couple of times and then jump up and shoot upside down combo. The only differences are other than Huang Zhong shooting with his bow horizontally for his normal attacks and being stationary are that Huang Zhong's happens after the fourth normal attack input and only creates a shockwave below him while Sakura and Takumi's happens after the third normal attack input and summons a tornado. Huang Zhong, but I never played DW8 and I don't know if it's normal or not since I don't know how much they changed the combat system after DW6 which was the last DW game I played. Still, pretty much the same combo.

Dude also has a kick move at 0:41. I love this badass grandpa! :p

Edit: At this point I feel like FE Warriors will be much closer to DW than HW. There are a lot of characters in both FE and the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and while there might be a lot of different weapons, there's probably going to be a lot of overlaps. I remember DW4 having like Liu Bei, Sun Jian, Sun Quan, and pretty much anyone who used a straight sword having similar movesets. There will be unique characters like Cao Ren, Sun Ce, Xiahou Dun, Zhenji, and Zhou Tai in DW and Corrin, Lyn, and Ryoma in FE Warriors, but it's probably going to depend on who gets lucky because their weapon or fighting style really has to be different.
 
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Lorde

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I hate you. :p
That was from the time I pulled 4 Su!Corrins and 2 Minervas with 75 orbs

That was probably why RNG punished me with Elincia and made use like 300 orbs to get her

Then you don't need that heaux Bunilla. She's a nuker anyway, which is nice, but I prefer something that can either nuke or double if need be. Which would be Su!Forrin. I'd rather run Cherche as my Green Gorl since she is vicious and DA BESS FLYING MAID GORL around.
But I would run a gronnrraven build on that bunny heaux. i don't care about ha being a nuker.

I already do run a +atk -hp 4*+10 Cherche on my flier team. She's terrifying and deletes all heauxes
 

Ffamran

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That was from the time I pulled 4 Su!Corrins and 2 Minervas with 75 orbs

That was probably why RNG punished me with Elincia and made use like 300 orbs to get her
Ehh... I'm just annoyed how I missed out on two great units everyone wants because they're either really good (bride Cordelia) or there are no regular unit like them (summer F!Corrin).

Now that I think about it, I have no idea how my luck/RNG works in this game. I think it just likes to troll me in various ways. In most cases, it's not really bad since I like using new units even if I wanted a particular unit, but other times, it's annoying.

Oh yeah, I just remembered something. Burgundy Burgundy , why are you looking for a Bartre anyway?
 
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