Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Rion]

Even Master Core (that is, just the ball) managed to twice fall out of my F-Smash. My husband was amused.

"Just" two times?

I swear I could never hit Master Core with FSmash -at all- when at point blank range.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's really a shame fsmash is so bad at keeping things in because it's one of the few moves that was buffed knockback wise from brawl.

 

[Alacion]

Is holding up still the answer for Zelda's fsmash? Escaped it a couple times.

 

[meleebrawler]

Has anyone noticed that doing a turn-around down tilt with Zelda is slower now? Like if you're down tilting in one direction, and then all the sudden you turn around to down tilt, it's a bit slow compared to Brawl.

Edit:

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 3, Guests: 2)

1. Mocha,
2. micstar615,
3. Milky

Needs more 'M' names.

*bursts into room" OH YEEAHH!!!!

On a more serious note, I am super angry about this thread's
attitude towards Olimar! His biggest flaw (stupid A.I) has been largely
fixed now! (Especially on Wii U with 60 FPS Pikmin).

He may not be great, but he certainly isn't bottom five now
(or if he is, the gap isn't very large).

 

[Alacion]

Olimar isn't bad. Tell 'em @ Myran .

 

[Rion]

Is holding up still the answer for Zelda's fsmash? Escaped it a couple times.

You don't even need to hold up! I dare say the chance of you escaping a point blank Fsmash is pretty much on par with random tripping in Brawl. Seriously, just make the hitboxes do the PM thing. Please, please based game balancing developer god-!

Also I've noticed a handful of characters like Mario and Wii Fit Trainer have described invincibility frames on their UpSmashes. Other than Nayru's and Farore's (because well, we go invisible) Zelda doesn't really have any invincibility gimmicks on her A moves, right?

What I wouldn't give to have an invincible Ftilt/Utilt/USmash armbone or something (Fsmash is pretty disjointed alread, but... I guess it couldn't hurt either).

Or a "lightning kick" Dsmash, God that would be glorious (but I'm getting ahead of myself here).

 

[Myran]

Olimar isn't bad. I can prove it.

 

[Rion]

Also, @ KuroganeHammer ! We need to play some Wii U Smash sometime. :3 Just don't spill anything like coke on your Wii U or anything like that-!

 

[Milky.]

I can't say that I have noticed that @Mocha Prob because I don't have the Wii U version, lol

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i use the alternate purple Zelda, because no one uses that color. I feel original, like i do with green peach.

i think to make it useful, even if just on the first swipe of her hand Zeldas usmash should make her either temporarily invincible or grant super armor. Because the move has no purpose at this time. :v

 

[Rickster]

So anyone know the absolute easiest way to teach someone how to play Smash? Just tried, and I'm not sure if they're nonteachable or if I just suck at explaining things LOL.

EDIT: Random post is random.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

So anyone know the absolute easiest way to teach someone how to play Smash? Just tried, and I'm not sure if they're nonteachable or if I just suck at explaining things LOL.

EDIT: Random post is random.

While it's not really teaching Smash, I'd suggest to start on Walkoff stages. Wii Fit Studio is perfect for the "training" feel

Then, I'd say simply teaching every kind of moves, step by step. At least the essential: Special moves, smashes, neutrals, rolls and obviously how to recover. Tilts seems harder to pull off at first for some reasons.
Of course, they should take easy to play characters, and you should take the same character to show everything that said character can do.

 

[Rickster]

While it's not really teaching Smash, I'd suggest to start on Walkoff stages. Wii Fit Studio is perfect for the "training" feel

Then, I'd say simply teaching every kind of moves, step by step. At least the essential: Special moves, smashes, neutrals, rolls and obviously how to recover. Tilts seems harder to pull off at first for some reasons.
Of course, they should take easy to play characters, and you should take the same character to show everything that said character can do.

I should probably use a walk off next time. I just went to FD since it had everything I needed.

We both used Mario since Mario is easy to learn. I pretty much did all of that, except for rolls. After at least 45 minutes of that, he still only knows how to move and jump -_-. I really don't get what's so hard about it. I simplified it as much as possible lol. "Try just pushing A. That's your standard neutral attack." *does example then waits for them* "Now, try holding up and pushing A. That's your up attack". For aerials I did "Try jumping in the air, and pressing A. That's your neutral air attack." And "Try holding forward and pushing A in the air. That's your forward air attack." etc. Like what is so hard about that? We never even got to specials before he ragequit.

I should add that they're 27, which makes this all the more baffling LOL. Do I just suck at teaching or something?

/endrant

 

[ZombieBran]

Nah, Smash comes hard to some people.

I have a friend who cannot recover to save his life. I mean I don't edgeguard him at all. He just panics and fumbles with the controls, usually using a side special or uair. He's 19. What comes naturally to us is less so for people who have never touched Smash.

Making them go through the tutorial movie ingame isn't a bad way to start.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I should probably use a walk off next time. I just went to FD since it had everything I needed.

We both used Mario since Mario is easy to learn. I pretty much did all of that, except for rolls. After at least 45 minutes of that, he still only knows how to move and jump -_-. I really don't get what's so hard about it. I simplified it as much as possible lol. "Try just pushing A. That's your standard neutral attack." *does example then waits for them* "Now, try holding up and pushing A. That's your up attack". For aerials I did "Try jumping in the air, and pressing A. That's your neutral air attack." And "Try holding forward and pushing A in the air. That's your forward air attack." etc. Like what is so hard about that? We never even got to specials before he ragequit.

I should add that they're 27, which makes this all the more baffling LOL. Do I just suck at teaching or something?

/endrant

Nah, I think the problem comes from them! Are they gamers, or completely clueless about fighting games?
The A button should be instinctive. Press A and you hit people! Tilts and aerials should come naturally after that.

The longest part to explain is how to recover. Sometimes, a second jump feels unnatural, so imagine a third jump... Maybe it's because it's an attack more than a jump.

As ZombieBran said, showing the tutorial is a good thing, although many people thought it was going a bit too fast.

 

[Rickster]

Tried that. It went too fast for him...they really should make it pauseable/rewindable.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Tried that. It went too fast for him...they really should make it pauseable/rewindable.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

To be honest, I also think that the tutorial is too fast.

If people have troubles going back on stages, they should try Kirby. He may be light, but like Mario, he's a good character to start. Pit also comes to mind.

 

[Rickster]

To be honest, I also think that the tutorial is too fast.

If people have troubles going back on stages, they should try Kirby. He may be light, but like Mario, he's a good character to start. Pit also comes to mind.

If I ever actually try to teach again, I might try those. I chose Mario because he is pretty much the standard for Smash. 3 hit jab, reflector, straightforward attacks, that kind of stuff. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

If I ever actually try to teach again, I might try those. I chose Mario because he is pretty much the standard for Smash. 3 hit jab, reflector, straightforward attacks, that kind of stuff. Thanks for the advice.

Mario is an all-around character, but the cape would probably be hard to use efficiently at first, and FLUDD would probably look useless to beginners.

Pit's reflector is holdable, and the upperdash arm grants super-armor. The recovery is also easier to use, compared to Kirby.

Yep, now that I think about it, I would recommand Pit to begin with.

 

[GameAngel64]

I was on a business trip all weekend, so I didn't get to play Smash 4 Wii U at all until Monday, and even then I didn't get much "quality" Zelda play until this evening. Now I can say - and this might just be transitional pains - but I REALLY am not enjoying her. I feel like she has even more deficiencies than her 3DS iteration; even more end/aerial lag than ever before, a glitchy Nayru's Love, several instances where I "grabbed" my opponent and dealt 1%-2% damage BUT somehow I still get hit by the (non-projectile) move I just interrupted with the grab. Her grab and attack range seem smaller. And finally, I noticed that in addition to the Phantom and f-tilt going through the opponent when too close, the neutral air will now also safely go through an opponent that is sufficiently close. Is there any data supporting these observations as being distinct from the 3DS version, or was she like this there, too? Because if so, I was never as affected as I am now. I've stuck with her since Melee, so obviously have never had a problem with her being a "bad" character, but these are some glaring problems... Hoping they will feel less onerous as I (re)adjust to the GameCube controls.

 

[Rion]

It's definitely just the transitional pain haha.

I think Nayru's Love is still the same just, the crystal effect seems to appear before the actual hitboxes come out. I've gotten the "crystal" to appear but getting hit regardless with no trade, so that would be my guess.

Grabs do not trump in trades now unfortunately. Unlike other iterartions, the grab will always break when met with a trade. This was in the 3ds version as well I believe?

Phantom and Ftilt have always had those annoying blind spots as well.

Just remember on the GC controller you can pivot smash wayyy easier. Also autocancel dair OoS way easier.

Trust me, you just need to adjust yourself to the HDness of it all and the new controls. You'll warm up to it quickly!

 

[Zerudahime]

Oh, sidenote heheh...

I dont actually use red zelda, i just so happened to be wearing red during those matches.
I use pink OOT Zelda. :D

 

[Rion]

I'm all about the original TP palette. Call me old fashioned, haha.

 

[meleebrawler]

Nah, I think the problem comes from them! Are they gamers, or completely clueless about fighting games?
The A button should be instinctive. Press A and you hit people! Tilts and aerials should come naturally after that.

The longest part to explain is how to recover. Sometimes, a second jump feels unnatural, so imagine a third jump... Maybe it's because it's an attack more than a jump.

As ZombieBran said, showing the tutorial is a good thing, although many people thought it was going a bit too fast.

Well, in most games the A button is used to jump, not attack.
How many people have you met that mostly only use B attacks?

I know I did when I first started playing.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Spoiler: me right now

i just got a traffic infringement

derp

 

[GameAngel64]

It's definitely just the transitional pain haha.

Phantom and Ftilt have always had those annoying blind spots as well.

Just remember on the GC controller you can pivot smash wayyy easier. Also autocancel dair OoS way easier.

Trust me, you just need to adjust yourself to the HDness of it all and the new controls. You'll warm up to it quickly!

Hoping so, I was feeling a bit depressed about my life and everything I've invested in this character for a bit there. Re: Phantom and f-tilt, I did know about those blind spots in the 3DS version (hard not to notice!) but I had never noticed the same "feature" for her neutral air. Maybe it was just harder to see it screwing up on that tiny screen, but I had never noticed that move harmlessly going through my opponent until the Wii U.

I think one of my biggest problems right now is that the 3DS taught me to be SO DELICATE with the stick since I didn't want to bust it up, whereas I need to beat the crap out of the GameCube controller, relatively speaking. In any case, it is good to know this is just a learning curve issue rather than yet more inherent problems with the character!

 

[SBphiloz4]

I myself am having some difficulty transitioning into Sm4sh Wii U. Maybe it's the fact that I haven't used a GCN controller in ages. Maybe it's because the skill level on the 3DS version is lower due to the limited control scheme. Maybe it's because I play cautiously and better when I use a 3DS rather than with the GCN controller. Or maybe it's just that right now, I'm using the 3DS better than with the GCN controller, which is kinda surprising. >.>;;

Either way, I'll need more practice, haha. Anyone who like to hmu, let me know. c:

 

[JigglyZelda003]

lol well I use the Wii remote, so I got a really nice transition to go back to when I get the Wii u version

 

[A2ZOMG]

This is actually the best use of Zelda's U-tilt I've seen, to be serious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP4BTnLjOL4&t=8m26s

 

[Rion]

Oh yes, catching people out of airdodges was definitely one of Utilt's finer points. Nice follow ups from that Zelda there!

I always have mixed feelings about her Utilt not KO-ing anymore.On one hand, yes it combos a lot more, but part of the great thing about KO Utilt was getting trades with aerials when opponents were at high % for me (since Usmash trades are gross sobbing 1% flubs).

It's too bad our Dthrow doesn't practically autocombo to Utilt like Mario does. That would be mildly delicious.

Edit: Also man, I actually really want to know what the japanese commentary is on the bottom of that video @ A2ZOMG . This player in particular always has that, and I'm curious to see their insight!

 

[Zerudahime]

tbh...i usually usmash for the airdodge catches...covers more distance and has more of a guaranteed hit unless they randomly fall out....they really need to stop designing this character with bad SDI modifiers.

but we all saw what happened when ryoko and i fixed them in project m...people *******. xD

edit: @ GameAngel64 just so you know...i dont know if ive ever told you this before....but you were my initial inspiration to start playing competitively when i saw your Psychic Sage video from way back in the day. That was the year i started competing....so thank you for that. <3 This video was also somewhat of an homage to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvYLNGtYK8

 

[BJN39]

...they really need to stop designing this character with bad SDI modifiers.

but we all saw what happened when ryoko and i fixed them in project m...people *****ed. xD

Actually, in this game I'm pretty sure Fsmash, Usmash, and Nayru don't even have reduced SDI. xD

EDIT : Went and checked. Yup, Fsmash and Usmash both have SDI multipliers of x1. LOL, now Sakurai can't even be bothered with TRYING to make them work. Usmash does have 0.5 hit lag on the multi-hits though, I guess...

On the bright side, since lots of the data appears to be based off of the devs looking over Brawl's data, NAir still has x0 SDI.

All in all I suppose since SDI is so much weaker in this game, It might not matter if their multipliers are x1. Still though... I YEARN FOR PERFECT MULTI-HITS.

 

[Zerudahime]

they dont, thats what im saying...lol
they need to stop making her multihits normalized hits and treat them as multihits the same way they do with the other multihits. ie Bowser...samus...pika....

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Zerudahime the reason people fall out is not because of the SDI modifiers it's because of hitbox size and placement.

Even in Brawl the SDI modifiers were fine at 0.1x, the main problem was DI itself.

 

[Zerudahime]

I realize that the hitbox placement is what makes people fly out of them, but that is why they need to have special attention due to the way the attack is built. If they want the hits to have that sort of range, then they need to modify those hits accordingly to account for the mechanic (DI). Theres absolutely no reason Fsmash/Usmash should have any sdi modifiers on them at all until the last hit. Same holds true for the rest of the characters with multihits. If you can escape the move, you essentially lose the benefit of having a long lasting attack other than getting your shield pushback. Just how I feel about it.

Edit: if they were reduced from 1x this would not happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brzSqXqwZjg
a perfectly spaced fsmash should never ever do that.

 

[Rion]

edit: @ GameAngel64 just so you know...i dont know if ive ever told you this before....but you were my initial inspiration to start playing competitively when i saw your Psychic Sage video from way back in the day. That was the year i started competing....so thank you for that. <3 This video was also somewhat of an homage to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvYLNGtYK8

I feel like @ GameAngel64 is the Mother of all competitive Zeldas, hahaha (she was one of my big inspirations too to take up Zelda! That EXACT video).

 

[SBphiloz4]

This chain of inspiration is fun. I was pretty inspired to continue playing and improving with Zelda thanks to Zhime, haha. GameAngel64 confirmed Godmother of all Zeldas. X3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Zerudahime the SDI modifiers are fine since you can barely sdi in this game anyway.

It wouldn't matter if the SDI modifiers were 2x or 3x.

 

[Rion]

@ Zerudahime the SDI modifiers are fine since you can barely sdi in this game anyway.

It wouldn't matter if the SDI modifiers were 2x or 3x.

Wouldn't it be great if the hits from Fsmash/Usmash were like the "spiking hits" in Nairs?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wouldn't it be great if the hits from Fsmash/Usmash were like the "spiking hits" in Nairs?

They use the autolink angle, that means it hits in the direction the hitter is moving, since Zelda isn't moving it would just default to a 30 degree so iunno if it's the best solution.

Edit wait one of the hitboxes in usmash does use autolink. I cry.