Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Fuujin]

>_>.......

 

[Rizen]

It's funny because it's true
Moving right along...

It's hard to say how good characters will be in SSB4 until people actually play it. At least with Zelda it looks like they are trying to make her more viable. The pics don't show much we can speculate

 

[SmasherCat]

Heck, all the pics are her making faces and petting people. No info on any moves except for the phantom >.<

 

[Sharkarat]

Heck, all the pics are her making faces and petting people. No info on any moves except for the phantom >.<

Not even info enough to be sure it's a move.

 

[TheTuninator]

I honestly don't really want Zelda to get new moves. I love all her moves, Down-Air excepted. Her moves are all fun; they just need better properties.

Lightning Kick not having lag following sweetspot connection would be nice, for one.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@Spire & Louie G.

I'm fairly sure you guys are elaborate trolls in disguise.

Stop crying about a joke, and stop derailing this thread about the supposed Irrelevina bashing.

(don't cry, im joking. about the irrelevina part. but srsly, derail this thread again and you'll get some delicious infractions)

I have no idea who changed the title, but maybe it's for the best, Fuujin. Feel free to change it, but be aware of the more......... "sensitive" users.

 

[Fuujin]

@Spire & Louie G.

I'm fairly sure you guys are elaborate trolls in disguise.

Stop crying about a joke, and stop derailing this thread about the supposed Irrelevina bashing.

(don't cry, im joking. about the irrelevina part. but srsly, derail this thread again and you'll get some delicious infractions)

I have no idea who changed the title, but maybe it's for the best, Fuujin. Feel free to change it, but be aware of the more......... "sensitive" users.

I thought it was you that changed it....


I'm betting it was that Mario_and_Sonic_Guy moderator.

 

[Elunairis]

This thread... Is great.

I like Zelda's design but those faces.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can't change the title, Fuujin change it or they'll cry

they're welcome, they're just not welcome to post about rosalina and drama

 

[Fuujin]

I added this to the front page.

NOTE:​

This is a JOKE​

joke​

[johk] ​

noun​

​

1. ​

something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: ​

He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.​

2. ​

something that is amusing or ridiculous, especially because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce:​

Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.​

3. ​

a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: ​

The loss was no joke. ​

DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND CRY TO A MODERATOR​

Thank you for your time~​

 

[Louie G.]

It's called a JOKE people.
Lighten up.

It's called not funny.

 

[SmasherCat]

Was that copy and paste or was it made up?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Whatever the case, it is very proper.

 

[Fuujin]

Was that copy and paste or was it made up?

Copied and pasted, I wouldn't spend that much time trying to please the irrelevina fans.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I just realized sakurais last pic of the day was of something arbitrary.

I don't think I can survive til the 6th with no possible Zelda info.

What's on everyones wishlist for Zelda?

I'm hoping for a non-garbage grab this time around.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm really just hoping that Sheik returns. And I love her Up Smash, I hope that comes back too.
I've never mained Zelda or anything, so I don't know all of the technicalities surrounding her, but I feel like Sheik would be a major loss.
Although I wouldn't mind if Zelda and Sheik were separated.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who's Irrelevina anyway?

Sheik makes no sence to be in on her own however. She got in due to being a transformation for Zelda. You can't really argue that Impa wouldn't make 100 times more sence as a separate character.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don't really want Zelda to get new moves. I love all her moves, Down-Air excepted. Her moves are all fun; they just need better properties.

Lightning Kick not having lag following sweetspot connection would be nice, for one.

Her Down Special should change.

Her Down Smash needs some buffs as well.

Assuming we mean PM Zelda that is, Brawl/Melee Zelda a ****.

 

[ぱみゅ]

ANd here I thought her Dsmash was her best move (except the backside of it).

 

[B!ggad]

Zelda is probably the dullest designed character gameplay-wise in both games she was in so I'm all for her getting massively revamped.

Conceptually her specials are fine, Din's Fire is the most interesting move she has in my opinion and I wonder what's going to happen with it.
A rare case where it's super obvious that even Sakurai realized how useless it is. It's probably the worst move in all of Melee (besides Sheik's Down B itself), it got some huge buffs for Brawl and it still ended up being "okay" at best. Just buffing it again by increasing the size of the hitbox etc. might not be the solution here.

I love the idea of having some Phantom stuff in her normals because that's where she's lacking in fun and interesting concepts in my opinion. Bad enough that Rosalina seems to have inherited her awkward dsmash, her dair and her fsmash, almost down to the exact animation which further makes me hope and believe that Zelda gets some changes in her normals because we don't need that **** twice.

It works better for Rosalina anyways because having Luma act with her in symbiosis helps to hide or lessen the dullness of say Dsmash in appearance, so great job to have that one character who might borrow some of Zelda's old moves be Rosalina if any of the above is true.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Personally I am ok with Rosalina having Zelda's moves along with Luma, since Luma as a disruptor is probably the only viable way Zelda's moveset can be used. It's just so inherently flawed. :/

Din's Fire needs to be scrapped or made to be cancelled or like Project M.

I wonder if Sakurai has played Project M.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Rosalina can be awkward cause the Lumas will probably be the part of her moves which make the most impact. Lumas are kind of like, Rosalina's Pikmin in a way. So if Rosalina takes some of her awkward moves, am down with that!

Since it's gonna be TP Zelda again, why not feature her rapier for her Forward Smash? Am also hoping to see more magic zoning stuff. And definitely am most looking forward what Din's Fire will bring to the table this time. It's a real cool move in concept. Just terrible in excecution. Nayru's Love could also have far more priority, to make it an actual shielding move.

Sheik should be discarded however. Am thinking the Phantom already does this though.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Less like Pikmin, more like Nana in my opinion.

Rapier would be cool, but we already have Marth. Plus we never actually see her use the rapier. Only dropping it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

True that about the rapier. However, can't help but think it'd be a good option to give her a more safe attack. She might not have used it herself, but Ganondorf did it for her nonetheless.

Marth uses the Falchion. Which isn't a rapier, and neither is it a falchion. But I do get your point however.

 

[B!ggad]

Personally I am ok with Rosalina having Zelda's moves along with Luma, since Luma as a disruptor is probably the only viable way Zelda's moveset can be used. It's just so inherently flawed. :/

Exactly, I don't see how you can fix her (and stay kind of "true to herself") without completely remaking her. And I'm down with Rosalina having her moves as well (if Zelda will have hers replaced), I think it's the best option in every respect, but it still worries me a bit.

Sakurai mostly seems so unaware of his surroundings sadly, I doubt he knows P:M exists, let alone played it.

I don't know about rapier, don't like the idea of pulling out a rapier out of your dress (and stuffing it back in). It could magically appear, I'd approve of that, but I don't see either happening.

 

[Rizen]

I don't know about rapier, don't like the idea of pulling out a rapier out of your dress (and stuffing it back in). It could magically appear, I'd approve of that, but I don't see either happening.

Inb4 Link pulling out a Big Goron sword joke.

Zelda has a frame 3 Dsmash; it's a great move even if it lacks power.

TBH, I don't mind if Zelda is reworked as a character but if I mained her from the start I probably would want her to keep her moveset but have the stats buffed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's not like stuff appearing out of nowhere is particulary alien to the Zelda games as a whole though...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

TBH, I don't mind if Zelda is reworked as a character but if I mained her from the start I probably would want her to keep her moveset but have the stats buffed.

her moveset doesn't work

multi-hit transcendant moves are terrible in brawl and while lightning kicks aren't bad concepts but she literally does not have a forward, back, down or up air since they are either punishable on hit or too slow to use.

The only move Zelda has that is mechanically sound is down smash and down tilt, which in itself is underwhelming. I would be fine with her entire moveset scrapped/moved to Rosalina and her receiving a Doronjo-esque set of moves.

 

[Rizen]

her moveset doesn't work

multi-hit transcendant moves are terrible in brawl and while lightning kicks aren't bad concepts but she literally does not have a forward, back, down or up air since they are either punishable on hit or too slow to use.

The only move Zelda has that is mechanically sound is down smash and down tilt, which in itself is underwhelming. I would be fine with her entire moveset scrapped/moved to Rosalina and her receiving a Doronjo-esque set of moves.

Yeah but if the stats were buffed and some properties reworked her move set wouldn't have to be completely scrapped.
For example:
have sour Bair/Fair/Dair have some launch power.
Reduce the SDI on Usmash/Fsmash, change some angles to make DI harder, have hits connect faster and reduce lag.
Make Din's not freefall and boost priority.
Reduce start and/or End lag on Nayru's/Farow's.
Make jab chain into it's self and be faster, maybe step forward slightly.
Generally reduce lag on other moves.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lightning kicks could use some more priority. Am also for nerfing some knockback in trade for a more safe attack as well.

And agree that her whole moveset is terrible. Hope her Nayru's Love gets some priority buffs to, and it becoming disjointed so it can actually keep characters at bay. Think that would solve some problems for her. Am hoping the Phantom is able to wall some for her sake to, as Zelda is gonna need all the help she can get.

 

[B!ggad]

It's not like stuff appearing out of nowhere is particulary alien to the Zelda games as a whole though...

I've come to terms with it with Link, but I'd rather not have Zelda dragged into this as well, especially not when we're talking about a huge ass sword.

And Rizen of course, you could even make everyone of her moves instant etc. but that's not her point. And it's not like her moves need to be juuust a tad faster or just a tad stronger, it's a trainwreck in combination with her movement, stats you shouldn't drastically mess with unless you want to make her Sheik. It wouldn't feel right in my opinion.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even Project M had to drastically change Zelda in order to make her somewhat good... Think Sakurai should learn from that.

 

[Rizen]

I've come to terms with it with Link, but I'd rather not have Zelda dragged into this as well, especially not when we're talking about a huge *** sword.

And Rizen of course, you could even make everyone of her moves instant etc. but that's not her point. And it's not like her moves need to be juuust a tad faster or just a tad stronger, it's a trainwreck in combination with her movement, stats you shouldn't drastically mess with unless you want to make her Sheik. It wouldn't feel right in my opinion.

Hammerspace (or magic satchel) applies to most games. Where does Sonic keep his rings? Where do characters keep potions, etc? I'm just saying it's a standard concept in gaming.

I outlined the changes in a previous post; that would work. Zelda's point, as far as smash Zelda is concerned is to play like Zelda. Getting a whole new move set would make her play more differently than giving her serious tweaks and buffs.
Although, as stated earlier, I'd be fine with Zelda getting a different move set. She would just play differently that SSBB Zelda.

 

[TheTuninator]

Zelda's downsmash is fantastic. Sure, it's not the most damaging, but you can't beat the speed on that move. I use it often.

I'd rather have Zelda's existing moveset revamped rather than discarding it entirely. I've grown quite fond of her hand-to-hand magic blasts over the past years. The moveset's very visually satisfying.

She really needs an actual air game more than anything else. She's serviceable on the ground, if not particularly good, but her aerial game really lacks. Every air move but the Lightning Kick I could take or leave. Lightning Kick could use buffs but it's so much fun that I don't really mind it being a weak move.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Down Smash is a reasonable attack. It's probably one of her better moves, but that unfortunately doesn't mean it's good. What would help Zelda is better priority overall, and a little less lag. I still would really like buffs on her Nayru's Love and Din's Fire. As I think these two moves have quite a lot of potential to really write Zelda's playstyle.

Nayru's Love: Buff by adding massive priority. This move should deflect physical moves almost as well as it does with projectiles. Should even clash with swords, because why the **** not? Animation and lagtime would be fine as it is if this move is just a good 'keep away' attack, even if it's weak and predictable.
Din's Fire: Buff by speeding it up and giving it more priority and shield damage. A bigger projectile overall could also help her. Am not oppsed to making it Project M styled either, but that's not viable for various reasons.

 

[BJN39]

Looking at some previous posts on this page, here's some things have to say.

1. Her moveset only sucks in brawl because Sakurai decided to get rid of a lot of good Melee based IASAs and he didn't make the grounded multi-hit attacks un-SDIable. Rizen basically summed up the necessary changes

2. Dsmash hits on frame 4 rizen. Unless that's what you meant.... > _ > Still one of the best Dsmashes in Brawl.

3. Most people here don't seem to understand priority. http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Priority

"It is a common misconception that attacks are given priority independent of the damage they deal - for example, many people consider Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost to have "low priority". However, such attacks simply seem to have "high" or "low" priority relative to the favorability of their hitboxes - attacks with small or late hitboxes often appear to get "out-prioritised" by other attacks, when, in reality, the wielders of these hitboxes are often hit by their opponents' before they are able to connect with them.

Characters' whole movesets are also often described as having "good" or "bad" priority. Again, this is technically incorrect, because, with the exception of transcendent priority, priority itself is not an independent value. However, if a character's most frequently used moves deal low damage, and are hence often out prioritised by other characters' common moves, his or her moveset will appear to have "worse priority" than other characters' movesets."

 

[Diddy Kong]

No matter the definition of priority, Zelda really doesn't have any.

 

[BJN39]

 

[TheTuninator]

Zelda's got pretty good range on some of her attacks. The properties of multi-hit moves in Brawl are the real issue.

 

[Rizen]

Yeah, Dsmash is frame 4. I was basing that on memory. I think I confused it with ROB's Dsmash.

No matter the definition of priority, Zelda really doesn't have any.

Zelda actually has transcendent priority on many of her sparkle attacks.

Nayru's, Farow's, jab, forward tilt, up tilt, dash attack, forward smash, up smash (all but the final hitbox), neutral air, up air
according to this: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Priority

"It is a common misconception that attacks are given priority independent of the damage they deal - for example, many people consider Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost to have "low priority". However, such attacks simply seem to have "high" or "low" priority relative to the favorability of their hitboxes - attacks with small or late hitboxes often appear to get "out-prioritised" by other attacks, when, in reality, the wielders of these hitboxes are often hit by their opponents' before they are able to connect with them.

Characters' whole movesets are also often described as having "good" or "bad" priority. Again, this is technically incorrect, because, with the exception of transcendent priority, priority itself is not an independent value. However, if a character's most frequently used moves deal low damage, and are hence often out prioritised by other characters' common moves, his or her moveset will appear to have "worse priority" than other characters' movesets."

It goes on to say that if attacks are within 8% damage of each other they will clash so there can be up to 8% difference in even priority.
Also some moves have weird traits like Falco's sideB clashing with G&W's Fsmash or MK's nado beating a lot of much higher damage attacks.
I just wanted to add that.