About Greninja.
His results are better than a lot of people make them out to be IMO.
I've already gone into to detail about this, and don't feel like repeating myself all over again, but here goes. People can dismiss Europe all they want, but The Netherlands, France, and Germany are all of Europe's best regions, and there's a high level greninja in all of them. Istudying and Elexiao are both PR'ed #3 in the Netherlands and France, respectively. Eddy is #5 on the German PR, but that one I found is WAAY outdated. Venia's greninja has also beaten nearly half of the NY PR too, but retired from smash about a month ago. Some has been on Hiatus too, but during his hayday, he was #16 in the Japanese PR and had wins over players like Shuton, Motsunabe, KEN, Earth, and Shogun. These results I think are definitely notable, and shouldn't be dismissed so soon.
But then again, gathering this information was some what tedious, so I'm not surprised more people don't know this.
The most optimistic I hear Greninja mains saying is that Greninja is top 15 material. That really isn't a hyperbole. Stating that greninja has potential isn't really that bad and is something several other mid tier communities say the same thing too.
No notable or respectable members of the greninja community, to my knowledge, have stated that greninja is some sacred and hidden top tier. Most greninja mains have accepted the fact that ~13th is probably the highest we can peak, but that's perfectly okay with most of us. We just believe our character can compete well on a national level. And Greninja mains have, for the most part, his results are in need of improvement, especially in the US.
If Greninja mains do talk about Greninja a lot, it's because a lot of people don't understand greninja at all. People still say stuff like: "He's basically a poor man's Sheik" ( oh man this one triggers me so much ), they do display ignorance about him, because the characters don't play hardly anything a like. Greninja does have plenty of attributes
Even if he did emulate Sheik's play style, he does have merits over her, like slightly better mobility, bigger disjoints, better kill power, better range on projectile, higher weight, bigger grab range, and etc. Greninja being a down grade isn't an honest evaluation of him.
Me and bc1910 where not giving Dabuz a hard time about putting greninja so low. We just stated our criticism and opinions on the matter, as greninja mains, and we did so in a completely respectable tone. For the most part I'm only qualified to talk about Greninja, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Pit. So to limit my chances of looking like a fool, I limit a lot of my discussion to those four characters (because god forbid we spend our time only talking about stuff we're most qualified to talk about). Acting like we where gonna burn CCI to the ground if Dabuz didn't move Greninja up a tier on his tier list (that ultimately doesn't matter at the end of the day) isn't a fair portrayal of what was happening in that thread.
