Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Deleted member]

Competitive Impressions sure is a fun thread sometimes.

 

[meleebrawler]

Oh yeah, Tera... *pretends to not want to play as a devilishly beautiful and fabulous Castanic*


This reminds me of that one article on how 2D animations look better than 3D animations (or something... I didn't read the article, but I got some of it from Siliconera): http://www.dinofarmgames.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/.

Siliconera's article on his post: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/05/1...nimations-are-better-than-street-fighter-ivs/.

Eh, I'll probably read his post later... The problem with pixel art is that they're time consuming. This is a generalization, but you can make a model, texture it, whatever, and start animating for 3D animation. 2D? You're likely going to have to create different images per frame for each animation instead of moving the model. Really generalizing, but it's more time consuming which adds to the expense game development is notoriously breaking and increasing annually. The end result is that 2D animations just look bloody fantastic, but consume a lot of time. KoF XIII's known for that and is a huge example of that, but SNK just doesn't have the funding to do that with KoF XIV. Does that mean 3D animations can't look good? Nope. With careful animation or stylization, 3D animation can look fantastic as well. Examples of beautiful 3D animation would be Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Ninja Gaiden, Ratchet & Clank, Street Fighter V, and Vanquish. Some are just because of the attention to making moves / movement feel alive and visceral like Bayonetta, DMC, Ninja Gaiden, SFV, and Vanquish, some are just the charm they bring like Ratchet & Clank feeling like Pixar films, and others are just the attention to detail like in MGS where you can see intricate animations for reloading, moving through terrain, etc. The opposite can go for 2D animation since done wrong, it can look pretty shoddy.

The other route to doing 2D animation, but "not doing 2D animation" is emulating it. Guilty Gear Xrd uses 3D models, but stylizes in such a way where you'd think they're 2D or almost 2D.

Wished KoF XIV headed this route or is trying to because of their "in development" labels, but it's probably not going to happen unfortunately.


B-but I like Felicia's English voice...

Thing about most of the examples listed is that they involve supernatural characters. You don't have Umbran Witches,
sons of Sparda, cybernetic/mystical ninjas etc. in Fire Emblem, for the most part they're just regular soldiers in an army (there are ninjas in Fates, just plain old shuriken throwing ones). As for Ratchet & Clank, being a fully animated series bereft of any realism kind of has the effect of cutting loose restraints on visual effects.

It's just, as awesome as the GBA animations were, having them regularly toss weapons in the air for flashy effect among other things kind of distracts from what the characters really are.

On an unrelated Felicia note, my thoughts turned to PXZ2's Felicia the cat-girl's sometimes funny but usually grating high-pitched screaming

 

[Ffamran]

Thing about most of the examples listed is that they involve supernatural characters. You don't have Umbran Witches,
sons of Sparda, cybernetic/mystical ninjas etc. in Fire Emblem, for the most part they're just regular soldiers in an army (there are ninjas in Fates, just plain old shuriken throwing ones). As for Ratchet & Clank, being a fully animated series bereft of any realism kind of has the effect of cutting loose restraints on visual effects.

It's just, as awesome as the GBA animations were, having them regularly toss weapons in the air for flashy effect among other things kind of distracts from what the characters really are.

On an unrelated Felicia note, my thoughts turned to PXZ2's Felicia the cat-girl's sometimes funny but usually grating high-pitched screaming

How about Assassin's Creed, Sleeping Dogs, Uncharted, or even Batman: Arkham ____ then? Or the finely tuned animations of Tomb Raider? Fire Emblem isn't basically ARMA as a turn-based RPG, so there's some leeway for flair. The most average of soldiers, Stahl, in Awakening was still capable of pulling off wicked feats and the average thief, soldier, and archer were capable of flourishes, flashy attacks, and wacky stuff in GBA and before Fire Emblem games. It's not the flashiness that matters, but the presentation and the feel you get from them. Animations done well have this "OOMPH" where it just looks incredibly amazing even if they're hilariously mundane like watching Ryu perform a Shoryuken can be as incredible as watching Ryu perform a "standard" sidekick. It's that feel that matters and the impact whether they're hitting, doing something, or adding to how they move, atmospherically adding. Ratchet & Clank thrives more in being cartoony with a bunch of insane, awesome effects... EXPLOSIONS, but the little things like watching Ratchet's ears wiggle or droop when he's sad; that's good animation.

 

[Lavani]

my reaction when felicia opens her mouth

Competitive Impressions sure is a fun thread sometimes.

Sometimes!

 

[Ffamran]

my reaction when felicia opens her mouth

This comment...

 

[Furret24]

I'm probably the only only guy in the universe who likes Smash 4 Fox's voice.

It's so terrible, I can't but laugh on the inside every time he opens his mouth.

 

[Chez G.]

You're all welcome.

 

[Rizen]

You're all welcome.

Now I can't hear those without imagining Prof Frink making the noises.

McKnightlíght I'm home and made a room in SSB4 so join when you're ready

 

[McKnightlíght]

1. yw
2. Sorry, I was grocery shopping. I'll be on in about 5-10 mins.


For some reason my HDMI keeps disconnecting and so the game is just flickering once in a while :/

I think I'm done for the night, GGs

 

[Rizen]

McKnightlíght , GG! Those were fun

 

[McKnightlíght]

Btw it makes the Ganon MU way more exciting if I challenge you off stage every single time, no exceptions lol. You go for dunks I go for dunks, it's a good time.

 

[Rizen]

Btw it makes the Ganon MU way more exciting if I challenge you off stage every single time, no exceptions lol. You go for dunks I go for dunks, it's a good time.

The opponent offstage makes Ganon happy

 

[Cress!]

So on the new social I went to, I managed to TRIPLE post. I even reported myself. But now it's been a day and still nobody has noticed. Did all the mods just die? Does this mean #FREEFUUJIN?
Whoever finds the new social I went to gets a follow or 10 likes or something idk just find it.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Thanks for the like Tony, stop stalking me

 

[Mocha]

I happen to be playing with Mocha right now. I wonder how Macchi feels.

Ah yeee, those were some fun games!

That 0-death Zelda and Peach combo tho lol

 

[Furret]

Furret the critical hit animations are beautiful in this game. They still blow my mind even today.

my personal favorites:

pretty much everyone loves the gba animations

although i really dislike a lot of the custom ones people make, and the ones for lyn

Edit: I also rather enjoy the animations for fe5, mainly cause they are cleaned up fe4 animations

Eh, I'll probably read his post later... The problem with pixel art is that they're time consuming. This is a generalization, but you can make a model, texture it, whatever, and start animating for 3D animation. 2D? You're likely going to have to create different images per frame for each animation instead of moving the model. Really generalizing, but it's more time consuming which adds to the expense game development is notoriously breaking and increasing annually. The end result is that 2D animations just look bloody fantastic, but consume a lot of time. KoF XIII's known for that and is a huge example of that, but SNK just doesn't have the funding to do that with KoF XIV. Does that mean 3D animations can't look good? Nope. With careful animation or stylization, 3D animation can look fantastic as well. Examples of beautiful 3D animation would be Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Ninja Gaiden, Ratchet & Clank, Street Fighter V, and Vanquish. Some are just because of the attention to making moves / movement feel alive and visceral like Bayonetta, DMC, Ninja Gaiden, SFV, and Vanquish, some are just the charm they bring like Ratchet & Clank feeling like Pixar films, and others are just the attention to detail like in MGS where you can see intricate animations for reloading, moving through terrain, etc. The opposite can go for 2D animation since done wrong, it can look pretty shoddy.

The other route to doing 2D animation, but "not doing 2D animation" is emulating it. Guilty Gear Xrd uses 3D models, but stylizes in such a way where you'd think they're 2D or almost 2D.

danger time hype

I think it's worth noting that the older style of pixel art didn't involve as nearly as many pixels, so when you consider the amount pixels you could use today, the amount of time it would take to create and animate is actually rather staggering. the only game i know to forgo pixel art on such a large scale is the mario and luigi games
example:

another note on guilty gear and its appearance is due to its use of cell shading, it appears 2d not because that was the goal, but because the goal was to make it appear like an anime. so emulating is a poor term to go by, it has no problem showing its 3d it's more just a byproduct of what the end goal was

but the GBA storylines were kinda corny

you're looking for the word good. I'll admit FE7 could have been better (what do you expect with 10 chapters of tutorials), but FE8 is top notch and FE6 is pretty good too

 

[EODM07]

Morning girls. How's everyone doign?

Gonna do some more University work. One of them where I have to select three or four logo designs. So I'll be looking through some company designs; be it logos from shops, video game companies, anime companies, etc. :V

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[TTTTTsd]

The only Fire Emblem games with good stories IMO would be like, 4 and Path of Radiance (IIRC). GBA games were....ok but nothing especially special in terms of story. Gameplay though, that's where it's at.

I mean no FE has a terrible plot but it's never really been the best reason to play a Fire Emblem game ever, it's always the tactics moreso than the backdrop.

 

[meleebrawler]

The only Fire Emblem games with good stories IMO would be like, 4 and Path of Radiance (IIRC). GBA games were....ok but nothing especially special in terms of story. Gameplay though, that's where it's at.

I mean no FE has a terrible plot but it's never really been the best reason to play a Fire Emblem game ever, it's always the tactics moreso than the backdrop.

Well, that and the characters you control and bond.

From my (limited) perspective, you may be having a point about gameplay being at the forefront in gamer's minds, since Conquest appears to be selling more than Birthright (I'm having a rather difficult time securing a physical copy). Granted there could be many other factors influencing those purchases, like the unique perspective (the only time we really see what happens in a "villain" nation is Radiant Dawn with Daein, AFTER it's been conquered), dark being "edgy" and cool, Camilla's breasts etc.

I for one am hoping Conquest will strike a healthy balance between Radiant Dawn and Awakening in terms of unit raising. The former had too many for it's own good, with the plot jumping between groups and not letting everyone get their fair share of experience (Greil Mercenaries pretty much outclass the entirety of the Dawn Brigade, as do the Laguz Royals with any other laguz).
The latter allowing basically everyone to be OP with enough grinding kind of diminishes the uniqueness of each unit, and in some ways reduces replay value (you may only get one S-support per character in a playthrough, but that doesn't stop you from getting every other support), although to be fair both Awakening and Sacred Stones have post-game areas that justify the grinding to an extent.

 

[TTTTTsd]

one of the FEs I felt had unit bloat was definitely FE6. It had a LOT and a lot of them were honestly bad, to boot.

 

[Furret]

The only Fire Emblem games with good stories IMO would be like, 4 and Path of Radiance (IIRC). GBA games were....ok but nothing especially special in terms of story. Gameplay though, that's where it's at.

no, story and game play go hand in hand. A crap story can leave a player unmotivated to achieve the goal, which is rather important for games where the player needs a reason to complete the long segments of slower gameplay. ie: mario generally doesn't benefit from the story not because it's awful (which it is), but because the player's motivation can derived from the quicker gameplay allowing them to see both progress in game play and self motivation from beating a challenge. An rpg with a poor story, poor cast and slow gameplay should be expected to be uncompleted. While I will admit character arc types show up a lot in fire emblem, but really its more about the character interactions with character development that sets it apart.

And i'd give a quick run down of how i enjoy plots in FE games, but apparently my sis just passed out in class, so I'll be back to do that later

 

[wedl!!]

i'm a sucker for stupid waifu pandering but I don't like Felicia at all

her design is really unappealing and she's kind of obnoxious

Camilla's breasts etc.

nintendo patch in more gay girls pls

not-tharja is good but she isn't enough for me

 

[EODM07]

i'm a sucker for stupid waifu pandering but I don't like Felicia at all

her design is really unappealing and she's kind of obnoxious



nintendo patch in more gay girls pls

not-tharja is good but she isn't enough for me

I'm curious on whether they're gonna change the support conversations between Female Corrin and Shara/Rhajat in the European releases of Fates.

 

[wedl!!]

europe is full of homophobes. we'll see.

 

[TTTTTsd]

no, story and game play go hand in hand. A crap story can leave a player unmotivated to achieve the goal, which is rather important for games where the player needs a reason to complete the long segments of slower gameplay. ie: mario generally doesn't benefit from the story not because it's awful (which it is), but because the player's motivation can derived from the quicker gameplay allowing them to see both progress in game play and self motivation from beating a challenge. An rpg with a poor story, poor cast and slow gameplay should be expected to be uncompleted. While I will admit character arc types show up a lot in fire emblem, but really its more about the character interactions with character development that sets it apart.

And i'd give a quick run down of how i enjoy plots in FE games, but apparently my sis just passed out in class, so I'll be back to do that later

You seem to misunderstand what I said entirely but uh....ok? I appreciate the insight anyways I guess?

I was literally just saying the GBA games don't have these fantastic plots but they get the job done. GBA Fire Emblem games (and from what I can infer, most others with few exception) generally DON'T have these epic stories about war, which is why FE4 is one of the beautiful exceptions and I think it stands above the others because of this.

The characters do their job but they usually fall under archetypes both in gameplay and character design (usually the former). The story in the GBA games is just pretty....ok. Not terrible by any means but it doesn't really compel me solely to continue. What compels me is the fast strategy (because FE is generally not a slow game) and the handheld nature of the games (insofar as GBA games) which lend themselves to faster completion and just really good gameplay flow in general. The characters are interesting too but nothing incredible (outside of a few exceptions, chars like Harken for instance make me very happy.)

I don't recall ever saying story and gameplay don't go hand in hand so you can infer what you want even if it's literally not what was said at all I guess. All I said (and will CONTINUE to say) is if you play Fire Emblem solely for the story than you should probably only play a few games in the series because you'll begin to notice large trends very quickly and only a few games really shatter that mold. There are better RPGs for more compelling stories than FE by and large, the draw has and will always be the gameplay, because that's what these games focus on even BY DESIGN. It's why these archetypes even exist to begin with, personally.

tl;dr still gonna repeat, FE4 and PoR from my memory are the only FE games beyond like, the first 2 that really broke any expectations I had.

Also if a Fire Emblem game had an inexcusably bad plot I probably wouldn't recommend it either. Decent and bad are very different things.

 

[Furret]

And i'd give a quick run down of how i enjoy plots in FE games, but apparently my sis just passed out in class, so I'll be back to do that later

alright alright we back

Spoiler: Story breakdowns, small spoilers

• FE2 - one of the biggest snooze fests I've played. The game is mostly gameplay with little story, play as Alm traverses continent A same time play as the girl (forgot her name) traverses continent B.
• FE3 - I haven't finished it yet my b
• FE4 - Very elaborate plot with simple characters, which is great it allows any player to not necessarily follow everything happening in the story, but it allows them to still be invested thanks to the characters be simple to follow and be invested into
• FE5 - thanks to it being based on a small part in the timeline of FE4, it allows its action to happen in a smaller period of time. So the plot is easy to follow allowing the laser focus on the Leif not to go unwasted as the game does a rather healthy dose of character development to him, with other members of the cast having there impact on him as well
• FE6 - In terms of laser focus it once again is on the lead role, Roy. However, instead of it being the lord that is completely out of his league, we're given one that's cool under pressure and some tactical sense as well. Generally causing the story to be slightly more elaborate thanks to a large portion of politics being involved. However politics for some is rather boring
• FE7 - oh boy three stories, with ch 1-10 being the most boring thing I have ever played, the rest of the game plays out as the story that no one was supposed to hear of. Which personally I believe hurts it, additionally some of the more exciting stuff in the plot is saved for the prequel which is the sequel. I will admit I liked this game more after I played FE6
• FE8 - story wise it's much more basic in terms of an FE game. Which is something like a dash of politics, a sudden war and some barbarians. Where this game shines is its use of the entire cast. almost every single role in the game you are given the character's motivations, plans and dreams. Incredibly refreshing to see in a game
• FE9 - When it comes to main protagonists Ike is the one that we can either see ourselves as or as the person we could see ourselves standing behind. That being a person with high morals and determination. Highlights of the story for me will always be on the subject of race combined with politics
• FE10 - One of those elaborate plots that are meant to escalate greatly and pieces meant to fit together as you play through the story. Unfortunately, it goes from a moral question of fighting, to you are the good guys and they are the bad guys in a rather contrived way. While it was nice to run down some scum and stomp them into the ground, not nearly as satisfying as it could have been
• FE11 - remake of the old school FE1 on NES. Story is as generic as it gets for FE games, which is to be expected, but doesn't take time to update to at least give us a more rounded cast. ie: the lack of supports even hurts the story
• FE12 - remake of FE3 with a whole bunch of units shoved into the original story. Which also hurts the game's story. Either way the plot reminds me of FE10 just being a lot less sissy about it which is nice
• FE13 - actually starts rather similar to FE4, while I'll spare you the details. It completely derails itself in favor of poor character arcs and contrived story

I was literally just saying the GBA games don't have these fantastic plots but they get the job done. GBA Fire Emblem games (and from what I can infer, most others with few exception) generally DON'T have these epic stories about war, which is why FE4 is one of the beautiful exceptions and I think it stands above the others because of this.

I beg to differ FE8 is great in those terms, just for different reasons then FE4

I don't recall ever saying story and gameplay don't go hand in hand

down arrow

Gameplay though, that's where it's at.

Didn't directly say it no, but it could be inferred

I do want iterate half the reason I ever play an rpg is because of the story. I personally love FE plots as similar as they can be most of them are still good to me. It's funny how you can get good results consistently when just using story telling basics

one of the FEs I felt had unit bloat was definitely FE6. It had a LOT and a lot of them were honestly bad, to boot.

should play the remake of mystery of the emblem of radiant dawn
both having casts with 70+ playable characters

 

[TTTTTsd]

They're basic and good but in rare cases they go beyond that and I think that while basic CAN be good, a lot of the FE games plot-wise tend to fall into the same notes. I find the games WITHOUT route/plot splits like FE8 to be generally better. Basically they're below-average for an RPG but it's fine because they're a good enough backdrop. Ultimately that's what they're treated as, for the most part (outside of FE4 and PoR). I love FE for the same reasons I love FF5, sure the story is just average with some highlights here and there but the gameplay is incredibly refined and fun. It's fun watching your units crush mooks (especially soldiers who are hilariously always garbage.)

Sacred Stones I didn't like as much plot-wise because the best parts of some of the character development is segmented and it's stupid. You either get Cormag having real motivation to kill Valter and generally better story development but boring, generic evil Lyon when you go Eirika route, and just flip this around (less dev more amazing Lyon) when you play Ephraim. Why would it be different in this way? I mean it adds replayability but only in the sense that you sacrifice fleshing out chars on either side. Sacred Stones made up for this in its gameplay because Ross was stupid and broken and it was a lot of fun bringing him to fruition in such a way. Generally speaking it was just fun to play but if I actually looked at the plot more in-detail (this analysis is literally cause I skimmed it) I'd probably find a lot more to talk about. At least Orson's betrayal wasn't stupid and blatantly obvious like a lot of other stuff in FE is (particularly when they have the evil guys talk about how they're going to trap and surprise you!!!!1)

I'm really sorry but I still can not recommend FE games for the storytelling outside of FE4 and PoR. It's really, really hard for me to do personally.

 

[Furret]

I'm really sorry but I still can not recommend FE games for the storytelling outside of FE4 and PoR. It's really, really hard for me to do personally.

bah, fine I can't convince you, but to me FE4, 5 and 8 have the best story and character arcs

with 13 actually just being the worst and it being the main cause of me not wanting to get the new game sense it appears to be everything I hate about anime

 

[TTTTTsd]

FE4 is easily one of the best FE games I have ever played like, objectively quality wise. I hear good things about 5's story too and it has FE gameplay so maybe I'll give it a go.

But I do think 4 is the highlight of the series so far. I need to get around to finishing it when I get the spare time.

 

[meleebrawler]

should play the remake of mystery of the emblem of radiant dawn
both having casts with 70+ playable characters

I kinda already mentioned Radiant Dawn having a bloated cast, though it's not just that, but also the game keeps switching the characters you can use, constantly raising the enemy's levels but not giving the same treatment to those who were away.

Laguz are also idiotically balanced, raising them being utterly pointless since they get halved experience for fighting the way they're supposed to, then you get the royals who ignore said drawback anyway plus god-tier stats.

 

[Furret]

Laguz are also idiotically balanced, raising them being utterly pointless since they get halved experience for fighting the way they're supposed to, then you get the royals who ignore said drawback anyway plus god-tier stats

yep pretty much, FE10 is just a wash of little niggles that bring the game down

I kinda already mentioned Radiant Dawn having a bloated cast, though it's not just that, but also the game keeps switching the characters you can use, constantly raising the enemy's levels but not giving the same treatment to those who were away.

but really though FE12 has a bigger cast with out the whole playing as different parties thing going on

But I do think 4 is the highlight of the series so far. I need to get around to finishing it when I get the spare time.

I really don't see it as a highlight as everyone else does, I more see SNES fire emblem as a highlight. Maybe FE dev should have included more varied game play between games, it would at least make them tactically more interesting. Either way FE4/5 prob have had my biggest tactical moments. You ever want to share a story I know I've got a couple from those games

I hear good things about 5's story too and it has FE gameplay so maybe I'll give it a go.

if you ever start FE5 I def got some pointers for ya. make your life 10 times easier

 

[Y2Kay]

Gay relationships? No!

Incest? Yes!

Huh? What are you thinking Nintendo?

 

[Furret]

Gay relationships? No!

Incest? Yes!

Huh? What are you thinking Nintendo?

it's japan, incest not nearly looked down upon there as it is here
not sure about gay relations though

so ya know, japan is weird

 

[meleebrawler]

Also to be fair, incest was kind of encouraged in the era these games normally represent.

 

[EODM07]

it's japan, incest not nearly looked down upon there as it is here
not sure about gay relations though

so ya know, japan is weird

Some shows actually do talk about that kind of theme. One which many consider to be absolute trash is Oreimo. Because every single character in that anime is trash. :V (I haven't watched it, I just know that from browsing, its considered pretty bad.)

Koi Kaze I heard actually takes the theme more seriously. And the main characters haven't seen each other in over ten years, so I guess it could be worth a watch.

As for the Gay Relations thing. I dunno about that, I think it's accepted pretty well over there. But this is coming from a weeb who posts Yuri pics every day on here.

Spoiler: And then you mix it together

And then you get Citrus if you mix the two together. :V (You can thank Ffamran for finding the Manga for me)

I'd post the cover of the first volume. But I dunno if it'll be considered NSFW

 

[MOI-ARI]

Some shows actually do talk about that kind of theme. One which many consider to be absolute trash is Oreimo. Because every single character in that anime is trash. :V (I haven't watched it, I just know that from browsing, its considered pretty bad.)

Koi Kaze I heard actually takes the theme more seriously. And the main characters haven't seen each other in over ten years, so I guess it could be worth a watch.

As for the Gay Relations thing. I dunno about that, I think it's accepted pretty well over there. But this coming from a weeb who posts Yuri pics every day on here.

Spoiler: And then you mix it together

And then you get Citrus if you mix the two together. :V (You can thank Ffamran for finding this for me)

I'd post the cover of the first volume. But I dunno if it'll be considered NSFW

+1 for Citrus.

 

[Lorde]

My copy of TPHD shipped today, but it doesn't release until tomorrow

hmmmmT

 

[McKnightlíght]

You get preorders on the release date usually.

 

[Lorde]

but i didn't want to waste a billion dollars on one-day shipping, so i'm not going to get mine until next week

but the soundtrack comes with it, so it'll be all good

 

[Rizen]

Gay relationships? No!

Incest? Yes!

Huh? What are you thinking Nintendo?

WTF?! I'm fairly open to relationships in the media (although often disliking them) but the 4 things I draw the line at are underage, incest, non-consensual and full bestiality (as in real animals not girls with a tail sort of things). I mean this in a casual/relationship way; if r*pe is an important negative plot point it's fine. As long as it's not normalized or encouraged.
If there was an M or Ao rated game then whatever, freedom of speech, but lesser ratings shouldn't include the above is what I mean.