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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Virtue

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New Japanese tier list for V1.1.3

Some thoughts from me.

- This is actually the first time :4pikachu:is this high LOL
- Pretty surprised that :4bowser: and :4duckhunt: are still quite high, even higher than :4dk:
- :4link: is higher than :4myfriends:!?!?!
- JAPAN MUST BE HIDING SOME :4miigun:TECH WE DON'T KNOW
- I'm actually surprised of :4samus:'s placement, simply because I've seen more Japanese Samuses than :4lucina: or :4zelda:, so they would probably get better results?

It's a weird list IMO
A few opinions:
:4villager:I can understand, due to Ranai.
:4palutena::4shulk::4miigun::4duckhunt::4lucario::4gaw:Are all too high, especially:4duckhunt:.
:4darkpit: should be closer to :4pit:.
:4zelda::4greninja::4falco::4wiifit::4myfriends::4marth::4samus: all feel a little too low. :4jigglypuff:should be bottom imo.
Woohoo at :4peach: in 15th.
 

Jaguar360

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can they please lower kirby

do they not understand we have one update left

JAPAN YOU'RE ****ING WITH MY BUFFS YOU DUMB ****S


I'LL END YOU

BY BUFFING SHEIK
B-but Sakurai-san...don't let that anger let you do something so awful! Think of how...you could do something more world-shattering and buff ZELDA instead! She'd be so overpowered that Japan (and the rest of the world) would destroy itself in frustration! You can do much better than buffing Sheik for your revenge. :secretkpop: :secretzpop:
 

FullMoon

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Place Greninja in bottom tier so that next patch he gets a frame 8 N-Air, frame 12 F-Air and a frame 6 standing grab plz.

Maybe make B-Air autocancel too.
 
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CyberHyperPhoenix

"Download Complete."
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Sep 11, 2014
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New Japanese tier list for V1.1.3

Some thoughts from me.

- This is actually the first time :4pikachu:is this high LOL
- Pretty surprised that :4bowser: and :4duckhunt: are still quite high, even higher than :4dk:
- :4link: is higher than :4myfriends:!?!?!
- JAPAN MUST BE HIDING SOME :4miigun:TECH WE DON'T KNOW
- I'm actually surprised of :4samus:'s placement, simply because I've seen more Japanese Samuses than :4lucina: or :4zelda:, so they would probably get better results?

It's a weird list IMO
It feels so weird to see Ganondorf in C tier.

Yes I know its because of how the list is set up, but it still looks really weird :p
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Aug 25, 2014
Messages
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Specials can screw themselves a new one. Damn active frames and damn characters with multiple versions of moves... CLOOOOOOOOUD! YOU'RE NOT THE ONE WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BRING ME DESPAIR! SEPHIROTH IS! *bzzzt* Tune in next time as Ffamran bursts another vein.
 

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
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Japanese Tier Lists are made almost entirely on results.
Ranai alone inflates Murabito's placing.
Kind of what I think about Sonic, IMO, Rosalina should be higher than he is, maybe Ryu but I'm not entirely sure about that. But Japan has KEN and Komorikiri slaughtering tournaments. That's why Sakurai keeps nerfing him.
Duck Hunt is quite popular so he is too high.
On the other hand, Ike is not.

I always take their lists with a grain of salt.
:196:
 

krazySyko

Smash Cadet
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Dec 22, 2015
Messages
54
Getting on FG late at night makes me realize just how bad I am at this game. I kinda just get on loss streaks, and I can see what other people are doing but don't really know how to punish it very well, even just people doing a roll I know they'll do. Lots of matchups and bad tactics I dunno how to deal with yet either.

/sigh Just gotta keep at it I suppose.
 
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Kofu

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How is Marth considered low tier?!

Times have changed...
:crying:
You should check out @Shaya's post in the Marth boards. He feels Marth is low tier (and actually feels like Roy is overall more competitive, something I'd be interested to hear more about).

On FG I've mainly been using random and when I get Marth/Lucina, I have to say that they feel... average. There's really little about them that stands out to me aside from having a sword but those sorts of characters are a dime a dozen in Smash 4. Their combo starters are risky, their pokes are often vulnerable, and their DPH is low. I was in denial about when discussing Marth with a friend but even as someone who doesn't use the character I can tell that they need some damage buffs on their BnB moves, probably with knocbback modifications to compensate. Even their edgeguarding, which is one of their strongest assets, isn't super noteworthy.

To tell the truth I'm not horribly concerned, I had enough hair-pulling moments in Brawl trying to not die to his oppressive aerials. But as I also main a character that could use some decent buffs I can't with a good conscience flat out ignore him and say he deserves to rot. But I'm not sure what changes to make for him that would make him viable without making him oppressive again.

At least Marth's got bishie looks on his side. I'm not into men at all so it makes me mad when Marth wins and all I can think about is how attractive his face is.


He's a much prettier girl than Lucina will ever be :colorful:
 

ぱみゅ

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Bruh. Marth is bad.
Tipper Fsmash killing at 60 is not a saving grace, it's just bad character design. I mean, heavyweights' Fsmashes are far more reliable despite being overall slower, and kill earlier.
He can't approach, can't escape juggles, lacks setups into anything important (bar grab release to Crescent Slash).
Heck, he even got that ******** Shield Breaker nerf (RIP Lucina).


Edit: Salty Page Steal

:196:
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Bruh. Marth is bad.
Tipper Fsmash killing at 60 is not a saving grace, it's just bad character design. I mean, heavyweights' Fsmashes are far more reliable despite being overall slower, and kill earlier.
He can't approach, can't escape juggles, lacks setups into anything important (bar grab release to Crescent Slash).
Heck, he even got that ******** Shield Breaker nerf (RIP Lucina).
:196:
Marth has a better approach than Falco and Marth's recovery moves have complete and better hitboxes on them unlike Falco's. Oh, and whatever happens to Roy, a semi-clone of Marth (and Lucina) doesn't happen to Marth the same way. The same setups you can do on Fox is going to happen on Falco and it's going to hurt much more when you cannot run which hey, look, both Marth and Roy can actually freaking run away. Oh, and Marth's jab functions now unlike Falco's where apparently being able to jump, shield, walk out, jab, do an aerial, Shoryuken, Super Jump Punch, Rest, and even freaking grab, a move without a hitbox, is considered okay and functioning. You don't know frustration until you've had each part of your jab fail in the worst possible situations. Falco's -2 or 30:70 against Luigi has -1 and -10 come from a failure of a jab. Falco jabbing means Luigi can do **** all he wants like he has natural armor that would make Bowser look like a soft-shelled Koopa.

The other half is failing at zoning. Falco's holster animation is just stupid; he raises his Blaster above his head then puts in back in the holster. First off, Falco draws his damn Blaster by sliding it out and he could just slide it back in like how Fox does who also that while pulling off a RoboCop. If he really needs to raise it up for some reason, then do it like Wolf who raises his Blaster up slightly before putting it back in. Makes sense since a bayonet being slid back in would just ruin the holster. I'm guessing like 10 to 20 frames could be shaved off if Falco's animation wasn't dumb. EVEN THEN, just why? From a free for all standpoint, Falco's Blaster fails for kill stealing since it stuns people. Yeah, it stops their momentum which means Falco might be kill stopping instead and at that rate, he's causing trouble for everyone including himself. Fox's no knockback Blaster that was given lower total frames? Fantastic for tagging people and competitively, racking up damage since it's a safe option. In customs? Fox beats him there too when for whatever reason, Falco's Burst Blaster has hilariously short range compared to Fox's and with patch 1.1.0, no redeeming qualities. It used to be the shorter-ranged, but slightly faster recovering Fox Blaster to a steaming pile of **** version of Fox's Blaster.

Bayonetta's Bullet Arts? She's not even out yet! Buuuuut, her Bullet Arts are basically an "aimable" Fox Blaster meaning Bay's got one decent kill steal move which was even officially mentioned during her gameplay breakdown. Bay's Bullet Climax already looks like a better Falco Blaster since it can cause continuous hit stun and be fired continuously. It's basically a Shakunetsu or a hit stun version of Fox's Blaster. Then there's Cloud's Blade Beam. It's basically a 64 Fox Blaster with a massive hitbox. Does what Wolf's does, what Falco wished he could do, and some more. Somehow, summoning a giant shockwave and swinging a giant sword even though it's not heavy because it's a memento is faster than firing and putting away a freaking Blaster. Oh, and funny enough, all of them run faster than Falco and by a lot. Ryu's still noticeable faster than Falco and (assuming) Bayonetta's probably in the leagues of 1.7 runners. Gee, Ted, Falco sure runs slow. Don'cha think we should increase his running speed? Nah, he's fine... *Kirby, Lucario, and Mewtwo get mobility buff* Really? I can see why Kirby would need one, but it was pitiful since he went up from 1.5 to 1.5-something... Mewtwo goes from above-average to Meta Knight-speed. AW COME ON! *everyone gets mobility buffs leaving Falco as the slowest moving character below Robin on the ground and Triple D in the air*

Other zoners? And this includes Zelda? Yeah, options. Falco's stuck with a linear as hell projectile. As sad as Zelda's projectiles are, can you say Falco has options? Noooooope. Din's Fire might suck, but at least you can aim where you want and Phantom Slash is a massive hitbox. Zelda making herself into a projectile with Farore's Wind curbstomps Falco's Fire Bird which for whatever reason, seems designed to not connect on the ground and after it launches and Falco Phantasm's half hitbox means you can just land in front of someone as they kill you. Oh, and the stupid raised wing. Why is he TILTED!?

Oh, and let's not forget that Cloud basically has a balanced Melee Falco Dair while Falco has a homogenized Dair spike like 80% to 70% of the freaking cast. Why are Dairs made so situational? The ones that aren't end up being amazing options for characters and the ones that are still spikes, but good, are freaking fast like Cloud, Luigi, the Pits, Ryu, and Villager. Hell, most of the time, you're not even spiking with them like Cloud and Luigi who set them up or use them to setup stuff while freaking Villager can use her Dair along with Nair and Uair as lingering hitboxes of doom and Ryu's basically got the Melee Marth Dair where you can setup a spike. Some of the Dairs are hilariously bad on paper and in practice like what's the freaking point of Wii Fit Trainer's and why does Roy have so much landing lag on his? Cloud gets to plant a giant sword and Ike gets to slam a heavy sword down while Roy swings a regular, albeit dull sword down and lands as if he broke his ankle.

LAST THING! Of all the poke kicks, every character except Falco has base knockback meaning Falco's is dangerous to use at low percents, especially against characters like all the heavyweights and Luigi. Luigi has 2 base on his Ftilt. Yeah, no, Falco can't even have 2 base to be somewhat protected... Meanwhile, Fox with his 10 base, 110 growth, and recovering 4 frames faster letting him spam his Ftilt if he wants while Falco sticking his leg out means it's going to get snapped off. Then you have Ryu's bare foot being invincible... Falco (and Captain Falcon and Fox) are wearing boots! Hell, they might even have cybernetic legs! Oh, and what about the shoe-wearing bros, (Dr.) Mario and Luigi? Or ZSS? Sure, they can angle their Ftilts, but why is your bare foot invincible? Speaking of I-frames, DK can shove them up where the sun don't shine. Dumb gorilla having more I-frames on almost all his freaking moves. He's a gorilla not a freaking turtle dragon! Why's the Koopa King gotta have lower I-frames than a gorilla?! ARGH! THIS GAME!
 
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TriTails

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Luigi's F-tilt has 2 base mean nothing. Protected? I feel no protection whenever I throw out this move at lower percents. In almost any situation, Falco's F-tilt is better.

And Falco's F-tilt actually has uses. Luigi's F-tilt is just bad because of slower walk and later FAF. You're underestimating Falco's F-tilt quite a bit here.
 

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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lol what even is this discussion?
After having Chicago players in town for a the last few days and smashing almost non stop my sleep schedule is shot.
Are there any other gaycats left?





Nnnn look at this MESS that I found upon entering the Palu boards


For reference this match up is pretty terrible, not great at all.
Wouldn't really consider Pikachu a "projectile based character"
Her jab is faster than both her d tilt and u tilt.



Brawl Zelda boards teas
I must stay in the good sis @BJN39s good graces!
The Fujin saga this morning.
 
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McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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Nnnn look at this MESS that I found upon entering the Palu boards




For reference this match up is pretty terrible, not great at all.
Wouldn't really consider Pikachu a "projectile based character"
Her jab is faster than both her d tilt and u tilt.



Brawl Zelda boards teas
Did you just edit a post instead of double posting?

You're a phony!
 

EODM07

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Afternoon girls. How's everyone doing? :4zelda:

Doing some sidequests in Xenoblade X atm. And I've uploaded one match I had against @evmaxy54, I get bodied in it. But I seriously wanted to upload it. :yeahboi: Especially the highlight. (Sent to it EMG under I think it's Character Highlight Reel?)

 
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FullMoon

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On another note I'm back to playing with Lucas again, not even because of the buffs, I just like sunflower boy too much to drop him completely.

Maybe next tournament I'll try going solo Lucas just to see how far that gets me.
 

Antonykun

Hero of Many Faces
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Zelda is a mid tier and thus doesn't need to get buffed or banned
 

SBphiloz4

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Earthquake in my area, lasted like 5 seconds

I was in bed when I suddenly felt minor shaking I thought I was drunk from all the vibration I had from sonic spin dash charging on wifi yesterday and ignored it LOL
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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I must stay in the good sis @BJN39s good graces!
whaT?

Also hi.


Also, Macchi quiT spreading lies that every sistern is dropping Zeldawful because while I'm going to collect bayonetta's data I can already tell I won't be playing ha over Zelda.

So there'll be one Zelda main left
 
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Lorde

Let 'em talk
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Play ha with Zelda, and just use Bayo for all of Zelda's bad MUs.

which is all of them :^)
 
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krazySyko

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Might have been posted before but I stumbled upon this last night.


The more I think about it the more similarities I see between Zelda and Anna from Tekken. Both are sassy but have major design problems!

Let's see with Anna...
-Her standing launcher is 1 frame later than most of the cast who get launches at i15
-Despite that she's supposed to do crouch mixups a lot, her crouch punishment is probably the worst in the game
-Her main low poke is launch punishable by I think the entire cast except Anna herself
-Her bread and butter combo in Tag 2 will miss if she's off-axis to her right, so if you wanna whiff punish after stepping right you have to give up a bit of damage
-She's extremely linear/steppable, especially her crouch moves
-A lot of her strings are almost entirely low/high with no mid option to actually mix up with
 

BJN39

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Might have been posted before but I stumbled upon this last night.


The more I think about it the more similarities I see between Zelda and Anna from Tekken. Both are sassy but have major design problems!

Let's see with Anna...
-Her standing launcher is 1 frame later than most of the cast who get launches at i15
-Despite that she's supposed to do crouch mixups a lot, her crouch punishment is probably the worst in the game
-Her main low poke is launch punishable by I think the entire cast except Anna herself
-Her bread and butter combo in Tag 2 will miss if she's off-axis to her right, so if you wanna whiff punish after stepping right you have to give up a bit of damage
-She's extremely linear/steppable, especially her crouch moves
-A lot of her strings are almost entirely low/high with no mid option to actually mix up with
I was shown this video before, and I hope it's not what people are being shown to bring knowledge to her all of issues :/ it feels like it's missing some pertinent things, and pushing some problems that aren't as relevant.

I also thought it had to have been made by a Samus main because it looked just like their complaint video.
 
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Macchiato

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I was shown this video before, and I hope it's not what people are being shown to bring knowledge to her all of issues :/ it feels like it's missing some pertinent things, and pushing some problems that aren't as relevant.

I also thought it had to have been made by a Samus main because it looked just like their complaint video.
It was made by a Lucas that secondaries Zelda. They made a Lucas one as well as Zelda.
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
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Oct 24, 2014
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@TTTTTsd (or anyone with Cloud and some time to kill for science)

I want kill percents for:

- Average size Mii Brawler
- Cloud
- Limit Break Cloud

using either Mewtwo's uthrow or DK's usmash, your choice.

pls ty
 
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