Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Rizen]

Just a random question but what do you guys think about Robin?

I think there is only one Robin and he wears a wig and raises his voice to pretend to be female. Seriously, the body and face are exactly the same for the male and female variations.

 

[Deleted member]

Just a random question but what do you guys think about Robin?

 

[ZombieBran]

Solo Rosalina is tr4sh tier.
Like below Zelda.

Edit: tfw no Fem!Robin icon. tfw Robin's best projectiles are customs.

 

[Berserker.]

I keep reverting back and forth with, "I think Robin is okay" to "Holy **** Robin sucks" vice versa

 

[ZombieBran]

Yep. Same.
With Zelda too. Except it's from "bad but workable" to "worst character in the game by far Sakurai ****ing WHY."

 

[EODM07]

Whenever Robin meets someone who is faster then s/he:

 

[Macchiato]

I keep reverting back and forth with, "I think Robin is okay" to "Holy **** Robin sucks" vice versa

He really is, he has more problems then Zelda.

 

[Berserker.]

He really is, he has more problems then Zelda.

Ooookay that's pushing it

Oh god no. My L button isn't working ;___;

 

[Macchiato]

Ooookay that's pushing it

Oh god no. My L button isn't working ;___;

Zelda: Aerial game, Approaching, Slow grab, Mobility, Landing

Robin: MOBILITY, Approaching, Landing, Combos, Up close game, Landing a Kill. Recovery

 

[ZombieBran]

In my dream world Robin has Farore's instead of Elwind. Elevator included.

Zelda: Aerial game, Approaching, Slow grab, Mobility, Landing

Robin: MOBILITY, Approaching, Landing, Combos, Up close game, Landing a Kill. Recovery

Quality over quantity!

 

[Space Stranger]

Zelda: Aerial game, Approaching, Slow grab, Mobility, Landing

Robin: MOBILITY, Approaching, Landing, Combos, Up close game, Landing a Kill. Recovery

Robin's spacing options are more reliable.

 

[Macchiato]

Robin's spacing options are more reliable.

Still as unsafe as Zelda's.

 

[Space Stranger]

Still as unsafe as Zelda's.

But Robin's projectiles actually hit.

 

[Berserker.]

Robin doesn't have much issues with landing KO's. Levin u-air and levin d-smash say hi. Like what Space Stranger said, Robin has spacing options (pretty good ones if you ask me)

Still as unsafe as Zelda's.

No it's not

I think it's Robin's recovery and mobility that cripple her a lot (and her poor disadvantaged options). Her moveset is fantastic

 

[kenniky]

Re: Rosalina: SoRo should be about as good as SoPo, maybe even worse because Luma is just that good

walk to r-tilt

what is rtilt

 

[Berserker.]

what is rtilt

intentional brainfart

 

[ZombieBran]

Berserker said it better than I could.
Robin actually can effectively control space, even with defaults.
and D-Smash is a thing of beauty.

Mobility and recovery are the only real issues I have, plus some quality of life things that could be fixed.

To be fair, being a turtle and not having a good recovery are major flaws so I fully understand people putting Robin in low tier.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Everything about Robin needs to be faster. Also fix the hitboxes on utilt.

 

[Berserker.]

U-tilt has a specific purpose and it serves that well (being a good anti-air)

I agree that Robin needs to be faster

 

[Kofu]

I actually didn't want to put him that low because I don't really think the character is that bad, it's just that the others looked... better.

Though he's one of the characters I didn't know quite how to place because you only see a G&W player once in a blue moon.

Those are fairly close to my own sentiments. Long story short, I don't think that Game & Watch wins a lot of matchups but he doesn't lose a lot by much either. Just my opinion though.

Greninja being mad at FE:F was hilarious, btw.

he was a good shiek player (beat every one of my characters except zelda, zard and g&w) but i think he lost because of lack of mu knowledge, he kept trying to challenge my usmash

g&w is probably low mid imo, as you said he has problems killing but can be killed relatively easy, but lets just see what happens

He's also got noticeable problems approaching and safely poking which are probably worse in the long run. He might be higher, I don't really know. His grab game is great, dash attack is great, USmash and Fire are great, but most other things need to be exact or you'll be punished.

The Sheik MU is okay until the Sheik starts playing more campy and then the discrepancies in their frame data become apparent.

How strong is Rosalina or Luma's Utilt again? *sees Kofu's post*

Nah, Rosalina or Luma rage is much more potent. Why? Why does it kill at 12% on Falco even with rage? ;_;

So, according to Aero's frame data for Rosalina & Luma... Rosie's Utilt's does 8%, is frames 9-17, and her head's intangible for frame 4-11, Rosie's base knockback for it is 80 with a growth of 70. Seems reasonable... Luma's Utilt has 3 hitboxes, sure, why not... First hitbox has only 1 active frame, only works on the ground, does 8%, has a BKB of 120... wut? ... and 60 KBG... Second hitbox has 2 active frames, does 4%, 85 BKB, 80 weighted knockback if I'm reading it right, and 60 KBG... why is this one normal? ... The late hit lasts for 5 frames, does 3%, 80 BKB, and 60 KBG...

Spoiler: A Rant for Rosalina

I'm sorry, but what!? Looking at Ganondorf, his Warlock Punch has 120 BKB and 42 KBG which is freaking fine because he can't hit you until frame 70. Oh, and it does 30% which once again, freaking fine when he can't hit you until frame 70. That's 1 second and some since this goddamned game runs at 60 frames per second!

Oh, but it only works on the ground. SCREW YOU. Ganondorf can't kill you that quickly at max range. Meanwhile, you freaking walk by, Rosalina presses a freaking button and you die at 12%. Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Yes, it's sweet-spot that only works when you're on the ground, but the fact it comes out so quickly, doesn't even do a lot of damage, and can kill that early is freaking stupid. People complain about Lucario rewarding "bad play" and meanwhile, Rosalina gets away with **** like this. Can Lucario even kill you with a fully-charged Smash or whatever at max rage and Aura that early? Seriously, what the ****!?

Never have I hated a character so much in a game and never have I have to wonder what the hell the developers were thinking. I get that there's stupid **** like locking games to 30 FPS because the physics are tied to it for some reason god probably doesn't even know, but this? The developers and community do realize that while Rosalina is a difficult character to master, she's incredibly, incredibly strong even without Luma at her side? Oh, we all talk about how Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Roy, and Marth's tippers are strong, but Marth can't kill you with like that. Marth needs to space perfectly and time a frame 10 Side Smash at full rage which considering the fact Marth doesn't have a little star to protect him means if he whiffs, he's going to die. Roy needs to be up in your face to land his Side Smash and the Blazer glitch? Willing to bet that he will get punished if he whiffs that while Rosalina & Luma still have the rest of Utilt's active frames not to mention she's not in the air and in helpless mode. I already covered how slow Ganondorf's strongest moves are and Captain Falcon? Whiff a Knee and he's not going to have fun while Falcon Punch isn't all that strong for how slow it is. It's stylish, sure, but really impractical.

The thing is, I like Rosalina, I thought she was cool when I played Super Mario Galaxy and how she was essentially mission command. I don't remember her back story since I think I never even figured out she had one. She was Rosalina, commander of some random ship Mario was on and was helping Mario save Peach and stop Bowser. That was it. I thought she was cooler than Peach since... hey, if space princess here is actually competent compared to Peach, she already had higher marks than Peach... Seriously Peach, we know you can fight... We even had a game starring you, Super Princess Peach... COME ON!!!

In this game? Oh boy, I FREAKING HATE Rosalina. It doesn't help that I chose to main a character who's utterly screwed by his *** mobility which once again, what the hell, developers? This is a fighting game, not a freaking platformer. Yes, it has platforming elements, but it's not 100% a platformer. Combine this with a low weight, poor range on his aerials, and the fact he cannot approach or force anyone to approach reliably and you have hell. And you want to know the kicker? I also like playing as Ike and Ganondorf and between the 3, Ike's probably the best against Rosalina and that's not saying much.

Luigi's annoying; he combos you to hell and back, but guess what? He doesn't kill you at 12% like that. Can he try? Sure, but if he whiffs that Super Jump Punch, he's going to eat foot to the face. Diddy's noises... But wait, even at launch, I felt like Falco did fine against Diddy, so who cares. As for Villager, Link, Toon Link, or any character that benefits largely from lag or has a lot of projectiles, it's tedious and it will always be tedious to fight them. The fact lag exists means it's going to be more frustrating and tedious, but hey, you can always not play online and not everyone is a stereotypical FG player. Rosalina? Rosia-freaking-lina is just hell to fight lag or no lag. She's strong, she has range, and she has really stupid moves that are really powerful compared to "powerhouses" like Ganondorf, Ike, Bowser, Charizard, etc. Not only that, some of them are reasonably fast, they're disjointed which considering her range, is even more range...

Whenever people say just don't die to stupid stuff against Rosalina, here's the thing: we're human. We make mistakes no matter how large or small. If we has tool-assists or if we had perfected CPUs or whatever, Rosalina would be landing those killer Utilts much more easily and playing at level where it's just doom for probably the entire cast. Also, how the hell is it a mistake to run? A basic movement option gets punished that hard? Look, when I eat punishes because I didn't choose an option, stopped before their range, or whatever, I should not be dying at 12%. I should also not be dying at 40% because I got caught in two Uair strings. I should also not have to deal with the fact a random object can fly past me and hit me. Don't know what I'm talking about? Watch good Rosalina players and watch when they call Luma back. They can have Luma attack while Luma's traveling back which hey, is fantastic, right? I get to die because a small little star can zoom past me and slap me in the face.

Nerf Diddy, nerf Link's jab cancel, nerf Greninja, nerf Sheik's Bair of all moves, and nerf Mewtwo's weight horribly despite a weight of 85 probably not being that severe for players fighting Mewtwo since Little Mac and Falco already die early despite being fast fallers. And Rosalina gets away with stuff like this. I know her Nair and throws were changed, but her Uair, this random super, 1 active frame, ground-only uppercut, and some other stuff on Rosalina is still there. And nobody says a thing. Nobody complains to high hell when Rosalina killed at 40%, but people cry when Diddy connects a D-throw to Uair or Luigi connects D-throw to Luigi Tornado. Let me remind you that Diddy and Luigi killed at around 100% with those, ZSS and Meta Knight have to precisely connect their Uair strings to their Up Special which can and has failed before either because the player fell out or they just whiffed, and Sheik? Sheik's Bair didn't kill early. You want a Bair that kills early? Look at Falco and Ganondorf's and even then, they're killing close to 100%.

Charizard's designed to work with rage, though. Luma is just a result of bad game design.

Rosalina by herself isn't nearly as strong. She has powerful disjoints but they tend to be unforgiving in their placements. Luma's kill power on its moves is probably a little too strong, though, especially on moves like UTilt. Its knockback values should not be stronger than Warlock Punch, even if it does a quarter of the damage.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but that UTilt probably comes out on frame 4. lol.

 

[evmaxy54]

SoRo is a pain in the arse to deal with eww

Lol arse ain't censored LOLOLOL

 

[Lorde]

SoRo is not the worst character in the game lol.

Sadly, even with only 2 working specials, she's still better than the worst characters like and for example. She's not great by herself, but Rosalinda is still surprisingly decent. She just relies so much on Luma that without it, she feels infinitely worse.

 

[Berserker.]

the discrepancies in their frame data become apparent.

There's a discrepancy between her and the whole roster

I mean, it's not pre-patch Diddy huge but it's still noticeable

 

[BJN39]

SoRo is not the worst character in the game lol.

Sadly, even with only 2 working specials, she's still better than the worst characters like and for example. She's not great by herself, but Rosalinda is still surprisingly decent. She just relies so much on Luma that with it, she feels infinitely worse.

Jiggs >> SoRo

Even then I have a hard time believing Jigglypuff is anywhere near the bottom anymore, especially after seeing Hungrybox landing rests everywhere. Well, that may have been teams, but still.

 

[Lorde]

Jiggs >> SoRo

Even then I have a hard time believing Jigglypuff is anywhere near the bottom anymore, especially after seeing Hungrybox landing rests everywhere. Well, that may have been teams, but still.

Jigglypuff has no range and approach. She's so light that she dies at like 80% all the time lol. Her weight is especially detrimental in this game because rage exists, and she can struggle to close a stock without rest (especially since bair will usually be stale because it's a great spacing tool). Idk, Puff is bad imo.

Her grab is great, though. Her pummel is insane and her all of throws do like 10%.

 

[EODM07]

I agree Puff is good, but nowhere near top. I just hope for Falcon to get some nerfs along with Sheik. Then I think I'll be very happy.

GIVE US ZELDA BUFFS TOO. >:C

I still say that Little Mac is probably the worst character in the game, since his recovery is the worst. Along with Dr. Mario as well.

 

[Kofu]

There's a discrepancy between her and the whole roster

I mean, it's not pre-patch Diddy huge but it's still noticeable

Oh, for sure. I don't think Game & Watch's struggles with her are anything special. But it's a difficult matchup if Sheik knows what to respect.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

This came to me in a dream.

(Actually it was after watching Zelda replays on smash for an hour and realizing things)

Spoiler

*To the tune of Britney spears circus*

There are only two types of Zelda's on For glory. The ones the spam Dins fire, and the ones that spam Farores.

Well honey i'm a put on a show kinda queen. Don't like the bottom tier, gotta be first.

(Chorus)
I'm like the Queen here, I call the shots. When I use Dins fire, I make it hit.

When I put on a show, feeling the lighting running through my veins. All eyes on me and i'm ready to win. I'm like a performer the battlefield is my stage, better be ready I hope you feel the same.

All eyes on me in the center of the ring just like a top tier.

When I land those kicks everybody gonna scream "Now she's top tier"

Don't stand watching me, taunting me i'll show you what I can do.

Everybody let go i'll win tournaments just like a top tier.

(end chorus)

There are only two types of players out there. The ones who can hang with me, and the ones that are scared.

Well I hope that you came prepared, I'm not a top tier (yet), so beware..

(Chorus)

I regret everything. put me out of my misery

 

[evmaxy54]

Jiggs >> SoRo

Even then I have a hard time believing Jigglypuff is anywhere near the bottom anymore, especially after seeing Hungrybox landing rests everywhere. Well, that may have been teams, but still.

HBox got carried so hard by ZeRo.

Though him beating Dabuz was amazing. I believe that the cultists think that MU is about even though

 

[SBphiloz4]

Tbh and pretty much occupy a section to themselves--

... as bottom tier characters that both have superior alternate skimpy versions of themselves smh

 

[Lorde]

Tbh and pretty much occupy a section to themselves--

... as bottom tier characters that both have superior alternate skimpy versions of themselves smh

Isn't Zelda showing more skin than Sheik is, though?

 

[EODM07]

Isn't Zelda showing more skin than Sheik is, though?

You forgot Zelda requires more skill than Sheik who just does nothing but FAirs, FTilts and Bouncing Fish.

 

[Baskerville]

You forgot Zelda requires more skill than Sheik who just does nothing but FAirs, FTilts and Bouncing Fish.

Forgetting Needles

 

[BJN39]

Tbh and pretty much occupy a section to themselves--

... as bottom tier characters that both have superior alternate skimpy versions of themselves smh

I legitimately cringed when Sheik and ZSS could do the reverse Hyrule Jump and Zelda/Samus couldn't smh.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

haven't been here in a while. hai peeps!

 

[BJN39]

haven't been here in a while. hai peeps!

Ed!!! :D how's it been?

 

[ZombieBran]

Tbh and pretty much occupy a section to themselves--

... as bottom tier characters that both have superior alternate skimpy versions of themselves smh

I was gonna like this but then "skimpy".

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Re: Rosalina: SoRo should be about as good as SoPo, maybe even worse because Luma is just that good


what is rtilt

Will continue to disagree with this on the basis that Luma is so easy to kill where as Nana wasn't and was more powerful of a tool than Luma with the ability to do everything Popo did and even made his specials better.

Does Rosalina need to be readjusted? Sure, but not like that.

 

[EODM07]

Forgetting Needles

Completely forgot about that. Funny that I only used her once during Doubles against some others online. Still don't like her at all, too dull and boring for me. And I really felt like I wasn't having fun at all when using her.

I'll stick to characters I find fun. :'D

 

[evmaxy54]

Watching that Sheik vid on the front page makes me sad ;_;