Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Brinzy]

Mario's range is trash, yet he beats Diddy. Your arguement is unvalid.

Mario has 3x as many useful moves as Jigglypuff.

 

[Antonykun]

Mario's range is trash, yet he beats Diddy. Your arguement is unvalid.

mario hasground speed

 

[r_greening1]

Heyo @ Berserker. could you do me a solid and make my avi have a transparent background?

 

[Kofu]

I just gotta say

Luigi is definitely braindead. Don't care what his results say, but I can't stand that plumber.

I'm one of those players that doesn't find standing I'm place and constantly using projectiles intuitive so I don't get as many grabs as I should with Luigi. Something about his mobility turns me off too (it's probably that he doesn't have much range or boost mobility, I'm fine with Ganon and Dedede's mobility).

 

[Ffamran]

ZSS suffers from WiiFit syndrome, if your short then crouch. The only moves that hit when Puff is crouching are dair, dtilt, and Flip Kick which are all unsafe on shield too. Puff can literally just crouch shield and punish. Puff can also crouch into rest.

I'm pretty sure you can angle Ftilt, Down Smash is a no-brainer, and Nair hits as well. Not sure about Boost Kick or Uair.

I just gotta say

Luigi is definitely braindead. Don't care what his results say, but I can't stand that plumber.

When everything from combos, juggles, gimps, spikes, and kills confirm off of D-throw, it's understandable. You don't see a lot of tilts for spacing and notable edgeguards except for like Boss, False, and J. Miller. You work with Luigi, but at lower level. It's like being a fry cook, but paid at a 1 star Michelin chef's salary.

 

[Macchiato]

ya, agreed, I was just saying. this seems like theorycrafting so far, i'm not really sure if puff really wins.

Idk I feel like there's not much ZSS can really do

Mario has 3x as many useful moves as Jigglypuff.

We were talking about range

mario hasground speed

Puff has air speed

 

[Berserker.]

Heyo @ Berserker. could you do me a solid and make my avi have a transparent background?

I love your avatar

but I usually have other people do this for me

but ok fine

 

[Macchiato]

I'm pretty sure you can angle Ftilt, Down Smash is a no-brainer, and Nair hits as well. Not sure about Boost Kick or Uair.

They're all unsafe though except nair, but now you have to space super precise. Uair and Boost Kick don't hit.

 

[r_greening1]

Idk I feel like there's not much ZSS can really do

We were talking about range

Puff has air speed

I don't think ZSS could really do any follow ups on Puff tbh. I believe jab, grab, u-tilt(?), u-smash(?), f-smash can all whiff on her. Plus

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY?!?!

 

[Ffamran]

Puff has air speed

Mario's air speed is good too... It's tied with Sonic, Mewtwo, Donkey Kong at 8-11 and barely below Greninja's and barely above Ryu, Mr. Game & Watch, and Sheik's.

They're all unsafe though except nair, but now you have to space super precise. Uair and Boost Kick don't hit.

Doesn't Ftilt and Down Smash have little end lag, though?

 

[Nammy12]

I love your avatar

but I usually have other people do this for me

but ok fine

This is why I say that in this day and age, everyone should have basic photo editing knowledge.

 

[r_greening1]

This is why I say that in this day and age, everyone should have basic photo editing knowledge.

<------ (Or see Avatar for same effect as above)

 

[Brinzy]

We were talking about range

Puff has air speed

I understand you mentioned range, and I get you said that Mario having low range doesn't stop him from beating Diddy, but my point is that he has many more options to make up for that range. Jigglypuff doesn't.

Also, Jigglypuff's airspeed being high is nice and all, but it also makes her pretty one-dimensional and generally unsurprising. If I had to choose, I'd rather have strong ground speed than air speed. Notice how characters like Sonic and Rosalina are strong and don't have gigantic tons of airspeed, because they make up for it elsewhere. Puff's got... what?

 

[Kofu]

@Koiba I didn't get your tag for she reason but saw your post. Angry Villager is angry. *insert flashing red rugby shirt Villager gif here*

@ Macchiato Jigglypuff's whole gameplan involves being patient and punishing overcommitting then forcing approaches by running away. If the opponent uses their range well enough or just doesn't have to approach much thanks to projectiles, what does she do?

 

[Nammy12]

<------ (Or see Avatar for same effect as above)

They do look similar.
New secretkpop confirmed.

 

[r_greening1]

@Koiba I didn't get your tag for she reason but saw your post. Angry Villager is angry. *insert flashing red rugby shirt Villager gif here*

@ Macchiato Jigglypuff's whole gameplan involves being patient and punishing overcommitting then forcing approaches by running away. If the opponent uses their range well enough or just doesn't have to approach much thanks to projectiles, what does she do?

If I'm not mistaken, some of her aerials clank with projectiles. Plus her DA has absurd amounts of priority. It's also not like she doesn't have the mobility to close the gap on zoners


@ Soul. Smash greninja probably runs torrent smh

@ Macchiato Plus I almost forgot, she doesn't even have to shield then punish. She can do a Crouch to punish (Hopefully rest, cuz rest )

 

[Soul.]

Okay so like, Pika doesn't lose to any matchup. If anything, the lowest it can ever get to is slight disadvantage.
*cough* *cough*

 

[Ffamran]

Notice how characters like Sonic and Rosalina are strong and don't have gigantic tons of airspeed, because they make up for it elsewhere. Puff's got... what?

Sonic's air speed is good, but his running speed is almost quadruple that, so yeah... Ditto with Captain Falcon having good air speed, but a running speed almost triple that... Rosalina's air speed is average, but her ground speed is good and she has access to Luma giving her a puppeteer play style. Ike's air speed is good which compliments his average running speed, Greninja is just mobile to say the least, and Wolf's ground speed was ***, but his air speed, weight, fall speed, low jump allowing him to short hop aerials really low, and stupid aerials made him a strong fighter.

Okay so like, Pika doesn't lose to any matchup. If anything, the lowest it can ever get to is slight disadvantage.
*cough* *cough*

The irony... Type advantage. Oh, but he's got Protean.

 

[Macchiato]

@Koiba I didn't get your tag for she reason but saw your post. Angry Villager is angry. *insert flashing red rugby shirt Villager gif here*

@ Macchiato Jigglypuff's whole gameplan involves being patient and punishing overcommitting then forcing approaches by running away. If the opponent uses their range well enough or just doesn't have to approach much thanks to projectiles, what does she do?

Like Greening said, she can clank with projectiles and her DA priority is insane. She can shield and punish or use a very high priority move like pound to beat out longer ranged moves.

 

[Soul.]

The irony... Type advantage. Oh, but he's got Protean.

shhhhh, smash Greninja is a fraud

 

[FullMoon]

I wonder how the F-Tilt buff affects the Greninja/Pikachu MU.

I mean F-Tilt isn't disjointed, but it has the same range as his F-Smash so it's a pretty good move against Pika who has pretty meh range.

It's actually amusing that Greninja seems to have a good MU with all the Pokémon characters here.

 

[Brinzy]

Sonic's air speed is good, but his running speed is almost quadruple that, so yeah... Ditto with Captain Falcon having good air speed, but a running speed almost triple that... Rosalina's air speed is average, but her ground speed is good and she has access to Luma giving her a puppeteer play style. Ike's air speed is good which compliments his average running speed, Greninja is just mobile to say the least, and Wolf's ground speed was ***, but his air speed, weight, fall speed, low jump allowing him to short hop aerials really low, and stupid aerials made him a strong fighter.

This is true - but it also reinforces that all those characters have other things that make up for it. I would say that Jigglypuff, past her air speed, is the most lacking compared to all of those characters.

 

[Kofu]

If I'm not mistaken, some of her aerials clank with projectiles. Plus her DA has absurd amounts of priority. It's also not like she doesn't have the mobility to close the gap on zoners

Aerials beat projectiles because they don't clank. Dash Attack is similar, it isn't transcendent but will continue through clank (I think Pound has the same property but I could be remembering wrong). Dash Attack is great but it's horrible on shield.

Honestly the best thing to do against Jigglypuff is to wait. I think she's one of the worst characters in Smash 4 but she's still usable. Also I think she's fun so there. I remember a FG session with, IIRC @Quickhero, where he was Marth and I was Puff. I'm pretty sure he was trolling a little but he kept Countering all my aerials so I switched to playing ground-based and started winning. Puff's throws and pummel do so much damage even though they don't lead into anything.

 

[Rizen]

Good jigglypuffs can be a real pain to deal with. Their spacing and baiting game is annoying.

 

[Soul.]

If I'm not mistaken, some of her aerials clank with projectiles. Plus her DA has absurd amounts of priority. It's also not like she doesn't have the mobility to close the gap on zoners


@ Soul. Smash greninja probably runs torrent smh

@ Macchiato Plus I almost forgot, she doesn't even have to shield then punish. She can do a Crouch to punish (Hopefully rest, cuz rest )

Smash Greninja was an Event Pokémon released a year ago iirc and, last I checked, it had Protean as its Ability.
So yeah it has Protean. I don't see it though.

 

[Ffamran]

This is true - but it also reinforces that all those characters have other things that make up for it. I would say that Jigglypuff, past her air speed, is the most lacking compared to all of those characters.

She's got stupid edgeguards, the ultimate punish/read tool, and she sings. She's definitely not lacking.

Meanwhile, fantastic frame data, but was a contender for bottom tier and now a contender for low tier, Falco. I mean, seriously, how the hell does this happen? You've got a character who hits really fast and really hard, with a jump so high and edgeguard tools so stupid, but he's among the worst characters in the game. Oh yeah, that's right, he also contends for having the worst mobility in the game alongside Robin, Ganondorf, Triple D, and Dr. Mario - maybe Zelda, Kirby, and Luigi too. He also contends for having the worst projectile in the game next to Triple D who technically has the worst and best projectile as Gordos are unorthodox projectiles unlike Falco's linear as hell Blaster. How do you... Why does it even rapid fire? ... Can we just give Falco a Hadouken and call it a day? Meanwhile, horrible frame data Shulk and Greninja... Even Robin could apply and Mr. Can't Land Bowser.

You can be slow or bad in one or two things, but you gotta have something to make up for it. Jigglypuff has air speed, a small frame, some stupid moves, and strong edgeguarding to make up for her short range, light weight, and slow ground speed. Falco just hits hard and jumps high. You know who else hits hard and jumps high? Luigi, Greninja, ZSS, and yes, even Captain Falcon. You know what else they have? Blinding speed for Captain Falcon, ZSS, and Greninja, and useful projectiles for ZSS, Greninja, and Luigi.

 

[Berserker.]

falco is not a bad character anymoar

gudbi

 

[Ffamran]

falco is not a bad character anymoar

gudbi

He'll always be bad in my heart like Zelda.

 

[Rickster]

Anyone want to play Wii U?

 

[Furret]

THE VOICE... IT HURTS US! *hisses*

He'll always be bad in my heart like Zelda.

Anyone want to play Wii U?

too busy playing splatoon

 

[Rizen]

I can't play atm. I'm in a bad mood and will play like crud.

 

[Alacion]

Anyone want to play Wii U?

I'll try. May lag though.

 

[Macchiato]

I think Puff is either the upper part or low tier or just solid mid tier

 

[Rickster]

I'll try. May lag though.

Ok, I'll make the room.

 

[Antonykun]

mfw the zelda social is going too slowly

 

[UkeNicky]

We're talking about Jigglypuff now?
I'm so confused Sharon

I'm not gonna lie, I like Wigglytuff better
I digress, anyone feeling slightly more optimistic about Zelda being mid tier now after the latest patch?

I've just hopped back into the Sm4sh and Bayo 2 scene lately and either my Zelda is just better all of a sudden or the lil changes have stacked up and are helping more than I personally thought they would've.

Still waiting for Phantom to be fixed, they trashed that harddd

 

[r_greening1]

I just want us to hit page 1920 to meet our quota
but

Y u do dis? :^(

 

[Antonykun]

We're talking about Jigglypuff now?
I'm so confused Sharon

I'm not gonna lie, I like Wigglytuff better
I digress, anyone feeling slightly more optimistic about Zelda being mid tier now after the latest patch?

I've just hopped back into the Sm4sh and Bayo 2 scene lately and either my Zelda is just better all of a sudden or the lil changes have stacked up and are helping more than I personally thought they would've.

Still waiting for Phantom to be fixed, they trashed that harddd

that reminds me that i would personally like if Raichu came out as a Semi Clone of Pikachu but i just know they would make him bad

 

[Uncertain Title]

that reminds me that i would personally like if Raichu came out as a Semi Clone of Pikachu but i just know they would make him bad

Huh interesting. If I were to guess what he'd be like, I think he would hit a bit harder and be heavier.

 

[UkeNicky]

that reminds me that i would personally like if Raichu came out as a Semi Clone of Pikachu but i just know they would make him bad

I think Raichu could kiiinda be like an alternate costume reskin, I dunt see wynaut they don't have to make the sizes make sense.

Just like I wish Jiggly had at least one alternate where it was a reskin

And I dunno, I just really don't like Jiggly's final smash I think it would be cooler if it evolved into Wigglytuff and went on a slapping spree instead of getting serious bloating issues