Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Macchiato]

Think I'm struggling to draw the line between success and being proficient in a character. Like Robin... I think her poor speed makes her difficult to do much with ease but whether that comes down to a "character being easy" or inherent skill I can't be sure.

Zelda is not difficult based on how good she is at low-mid levels of play. Requires so little skill and very little need for side aerials. Spotdodge/shield, up b, c-stick. Next to no combo game makes it even easier.

Smash 4 is the easiest version to master some characters like Pikachu and Peach.


Need I remind you guys of Zelda's recovery in Brawl vs. Smash 4?

Zelda has a combo game. Jab Combos, Utilt Combos, Dtilt Combos, Uthrow Combos, Dthrow Combos, and Dair Combos.

 

[Antonykun]

this thread is going fast again T.T

 

[UkeNicky]

.. Thoughts on Palutena in the difficulty department?
I just thought about her because when I use her Idunno I think it's really hard sometimes since so many of her moves are sorta situational.

 

[Alacion]

Zelda's always been a noobstomper though, I mean so many people at the release of Brawl (and even here in Smash 4) called Din's Fire "overpowered", and Zelda "high tier".

But I'm talking about difficulty where your opponent ISN'T a vegetable and actually moves and presses buttons. lol

Maybe it's because I play Brawl Zelda that I think Smash 4 Zelda is easy to pick up.

Zelda has a combo game. Jab Combos, Utilt Combos, Dtilt Combos, Uthrow Combos, Dthrow Combos, and Dair Combos.

Move to nair is not very skillful at all especially when it can only be done at lower percentages.

 

[Koiba]

IMO I think is a hard char to learn. ppl say that all you need to do is shoot out luma and do attacks but with you need precision. you need to learn 2 batches of frame data and it's very hard to play defensively when your opponent is very good at offence. It's hard to achieve good results because you need to play almost perfectly. You gotta multi task 2 chars to make the best out of them and be smart with your moves and it can be rewarding.

Same with

Anyway night gurls

 

[Jestar]

this thread is going fast again T.T

Keeps me entertained if nothing else.

 

[Macchiato]

.. Thoughts on Palutena in the difficulty department?
I just thought about her because when I use her Idunno I think it's really hard sometimes since so many of her moves are sorta situational.

FairFairFairJabFairGrabDthrowFairFairFairBairFairFairJabGrabDthrowNairFairFairBairJab

and Repeat

 

[Rizen]

SSB4 does feel dumbed down from how Brawl played.

 

[UkeNicky]

I'd argue Wario as difficult but he's really not.
Idunno he's weird to describe, when I play him I usually space with Fair, go for combos with Nair and just plain stall things until maximum waft is charged and try to get that lucky read.
I can't really see him being difficult in the sense that you guys are saying..
Which I still don't understand entirely lol

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

IMO I think is a hard char to learn. ppl say that all you need to do is shoot out luma and do attacks but with you need precision. you need to learn 2 batches of frame data and it's very hard to play defensively when your opponent is very good at offence. It's hard to achieve good results because you need to play almost perfectly. You gotta multi task 2 chars to make the best out of them and be smart with your moves and it can be rewarding.

Same with

Anyway night gurls

Rosalina is like a rollercoaster.

If you are just starting out with Smash bros, (as in beginner) Rosalina is a terrible choice. if yo have known how to play Smash bros in general and have doing it for a bit (intermediate) then she is back to being a good choice with how overwhelming she can be. Try to bring it to the next level with ideas of tech, knowledge, etc (Advance) and you'll start to struggle again as people know generally how to handle her and Luma.

However, then you get to expert and she becomes amazing due to all the possibilities she has.

 

[Alacion]

.. Thoughts on Palutena in the difficulty department?
I just thought about her because when I use her Idunno I think it's really hard sometimes since so many of her moves are sorta situational.

Custom is a bit tricky due to the high speed... default is medium I guess. She's also Ice Climbers v2 which makes it a bit hard especially default.

SSB4 does feel dumbed down from how Brawl played.

Yeah. The expanded cast is a good exchange though (strictly my opinion).


Rosalina is hard for sure! Need precision and Luma really is the star of the two. Unfortunately, Luma dies so easily and Rosalina struggles without her.

 

[Soul.]

SSB4 does feel dumbed down from how Brawl played.

It actually does, but ehhh. I miss my chain grabs...
I honestly like watching competitive Brawl.

 

[Macchiato]

i miss my ICs. i remember chaingrabbing people to death. those were the days

 

[SBphiloz4]

is not a character that anybody can pick up and use her successfully. But she is definitely NOT a technical character by any means. She literally has ONE gameplan to follow. Maintain stage control and kill as early as possible. She is no way a character that requires a lot of button inputs to achieve almost full potential, but because of the way she plays, not everyone can pick her up. Not to mention that her gameplan is overall weak and her moveset does not complement it very well, but the difficulty of achieving victory is DIFFERENT than the difficulty it requires to get technical full potential of the character.
A character that is highly technical but has high reward would be
A character that is moderate in technicality but has high reward would be
Characters that are easy in technicality with high reward include
A character that is easy to use but with low reward would be
A character that is moderate/low in technicality but with low reward would be
A character that is HARD to use (despite what For Glory thinks) AND has low reward is

 

[Soul.]

ICs were cancer and they still are. One grab leads to "gg scrub".
Also Brawl Lucario was really cool.

 

[FullMoon]

So the Greninja MU discussion in the Rosa boards ended as 50:50

I'm really surprised by that.

Also Ness's N-Air is really annoying and I don't know why most Ness players don't make much use of it.

 

[Antonykun]

SSB4 does feel dumbed down from how Brawl played.

I don't like calling it dumbed down, I prefer simplified as so it can have more emphasis on mindgames

 

[UkeNicky]

Peach is the only one I really agree on.
Them float cancel combos are a pain in the bum to perfect

 

[Macchiato]

thinking about it now is much easier to learn and master than . His whole aerial game is gone and has no landing options, edgeguarding options, and solution against platforms. might be limited on the ground but at least she has some ground game while little mac has none.

this is what I think.

Moderate technicality and Moderate reward

Very Hard to learn and Low reward

 

[Alacion]

Not trying to sound too much like a dbag but Peach is not very technical in Smash 4 and by far the easiest to use in any Smash game. Greninja is 3x harder to use.

I don't compete as Peach in Smash 4 but I do in Melee and Brawl. Doesn't even come close in Smash 4.

 

[Macchiato]

Not trying to sound too much like a dbag but Peach is not very technical in Smash 4 and by far the easiest to use in any Smash game. Greninja is 3x harder to use.

I don't compete as Peach in Smash 4 but I do in Melee and Brawl. Doesn't even come close in Smash 4.

imo theyre both super easy to learn in smash 4. Greninja wasn't hard for me while trying to learn shulk was a living hell.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

is not a character that anybody can pick up and use her successfully. But she is definitely NOT a technical character by any means. She literally has ONE gameplan to follow. Maintain stage control and kill as early as possible. She is no way a character that requires a lot of button inputs to achieve almost full potential, but because of the way she plays, not everyone can pick her up. Not to mention that her gameplan is overall weak and her moveset does not complement it very well, but the difficulty of achieving victory is DIFFERENT than the difficulty it requires to get technical full potential of the character.
A character that is highly technical but has high reward would be
A character that is moderate in technicality but has high reward would be
Characters that are easy in technicality with high reward include
A character that is easy to use but with low reward would be
A character that is moderate/low in technicality but with low reward would be
A character that is HARD to use (despite what For Glory thinks) AND has low reward is

Is weird. He's got the potential to wrack up damage quick with his frame traps and KO extremely early to boot. He can end a stock in seconds if he gains momentum, but he's so gosh darn unreliable with his slow moves, sucky priority, bad air speed, and bleh.

I'd say he's moderate reward.

 

[Antonykun]

You know what newcome I'd love to see but doubt will never be.
Mii Athlete: a Mii that represents the Wii Sports games and possibly the Wii fit minigames

 

[SBphiloz4]

For Glory scrubs that use improperly are the ABSOLUTE worst, but because of lag and how stupidly good the character is anyway, they all get away with it.

All Ness scrubs spam Fair, but never realize that Nair and Uair are A BILLION TIMES BETTER.

Same goes with PK Fire, when PK Thunder IMO Is loads more useful. Plus, STOP NESS PLAYERS. PK FIRE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK ON ZELDA. DON'T EVER USE IT.

Not trying to sound too much like a dbag but Peach is not very technical in Smash 4 and by far the easiest to use in any Smash game. Greninja is 3x harder to use.

I don't compete as Peach in Smash 4 but I do in Melee and Brawl. Doesn't even come close in Smash 4.

Well, coming from you who DID play Peach in Brawl and Melee, I'll take your word. Peach IS kinda stupid with her ridiculous reliable kill options left and right, but I still think that she needs at least some technical skill to maximize her damage output in every chance possible. Hard for many people to pick her up and use her to near full potential.

I will agree that is technical, he just unfortunately doesn't give as much reward for being so technical. Just my opinion.

Is weird. He's got the potential to wrack up damage quick with his frame traps and KO extremely early to boot. He can end a stock in seconds if he gains momentum, but he's so gosh darn unreliable with his slow moves, sucky priority, bad air speed, and bleh.

I'd say he's moderate reward.

I can agree that in the right hands, and if Zard gets the momentum, he's very hard to stop. But your last sentence also sums up the character very well. He has quite a bit of bad MUs left and right, and he's overall incredibly unreliable as a character to be able to stick to his gameplan throughout the whole match. If you can't set the tone of the match, it's hard for him to win, and may not be worth it in the end.

 

[UkeNicky]

this is what I think.

Spoiler

I'm just kidding bby

 

[Macchiato]

This is my opinion

Very hard to learn:

Hard to learn:

Moderately hard to learn:

Easy to learn:

Very easy to learn:

 

[Alacion]

My favourite MU in Brawl was Peach/MK by fair. It's officially -3 but it was a lot of fun. Prefer it over any Melee MU as well!

Not sure if I shared this before but this was me one year into playing Peach and MK was recently "unbanned." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwOXuAjqaw Smh at Peach's poor airdodge frame data. 1:54 was pretty cool and you don't see that in Smash 4, lol. Also, I miss Peach's brawl fair sound effect.

Why isn't the first song in Smash 4!?

 

[Rickster]

Spoiler

I'm just kidding bby

Saving this to use on people after a new patch comes out.

EDIT: Oh, the color block fad has passed?

 

[Macchiato]

My favourite MU in Brawl was Peach/MK by fair. It's officially -3 but it was a lot of fun. Prefer it over any Melee MU as well!

Not sure if I shared this before but this was me one year into playing Peach and MK was recently "unbanned." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwOXuAjqaw Smh at Peach's poor airdodge frame data. 1:54 was pretty cool and you don't see that in Smash 4, lol. Also, I miss Peach's brawl fair sound effect.

Why isn't the first song in Smash 4!?

do you miss her brawl peach bomber at all? I do. Usually when you hit someone offstage, they ain't gonna come back and it was great for mindgames too. It also did 15% which is good.

 

[FullMoon]

I will agree that is technical, he just unfortunately doesn't give as much reward for being so technical. Just my opinion.

I can't really agree here. For one Greninja is not very technical, he's just a character that you need to get adjusted to because he's fairly non-standard as far as this game goes, once you do get how his moves works he's very simple. Plus, Greninja has probably some of the best reward on hit in this game as well as probably the most kill setups and one of the best advantaged states in the game. I think he does give a lot of reward for those who master his playstyle.

 

[UkeNicky]

I think we're technically getting off track by categorizing characters into different tiers of difficulty.

Aren't we supposed to be doing the MAX/ultimate in the categories that Aero stated ?

 

[Alacion]

do you miss her brawl peach bomber at all? I do. Usually when you hit someone offstage, they ain't gonna come back and it was great for mindgames too. It also did 15% which is good.

Smash 4 Peach is awful imo. Peach was so much better in Melee and even Brawl she was decent. Key difference is that she had speed via her favourable frame data/Melee's float cancel.

 

[Jestar]

Smash 4 Peach is awful imo. Peach was so much better in Melee and even Brawl she was decent. Key difference is that she had speed via her favourable frame data/Melee's float cancel.

Can't speak for Brawl but Melee Peach also had turnips which was pretty huge for her in that game.

 

[Macchiato]

Smash 4 Peach is awful imo. Peach was so much better in Melee and even Brawl she was decent. Key difference is that she had speed via her favourable frame data/Melee's float cancel.

really? i think shes top tier in Sm4sh

 

[UkeNicky]

Smash 4 Peach is awful imo. Peach was so much better in Melee and even Brawl she was decent. Key difference is that she had speed via her favourable frame data/Melee's float cancel.

Whoah whoah whoah guys.
She gets a f***ing rainbow tho

 

[Trieste SP]

For me difficulty depends on the MU. I can use pretty much every character with decent success.

My favourite MU in Brawl was Peach/MK by fair. It's officially -3 but it was a lot of fun. Prefer it over any Melee MU as well!

Not sure if I shared this before but this was me one year into playing Peach and MK was recently "unbanned." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwOXuAjqaw Smh at Peach's poor airdodge frame data. 1:54 was pretty cool and you don't see that in Smash 4, lol. Also, I miss Peach's brawl fair sound effect.

Why isn't the first song in Smash 4!?

This reminds me of the old vids I used to take of my Ganon play in locals. I don't know where they are now.

EDIT: Oh, the color block fad has passed?

It hasn't passed it's just underground. You know.

 

[Alacion]

Can't speak for Brawl but Melee Peach also had turnips which was pretty huge for her in that game.

Turnips were in Brawl too. They were great as a cover and a movement option by using glide tossing (available to many characters, but discovered by a Peach player). There was also free pulling and bonewalking which allowed for lagless turnip pulls and ledge cancel turnip pulls which was patched in Smash 4.

really? i think shes top tier in Sm4sh

Nope. Don't even see notable Peach players in higher profile tournaments.

Whoah whoah whoah guys.
She gets a f***ing rainbow tho

See, I swing that way but no. Until the rainbow does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF-pxIUO3gE, screw that.

 

[Antonykun]

Whoah whoah whoah guys.
She gets a f***ing rainbow tho

alelate confirmed unimaginative

 

[Rizen]

Learning characters is more subjective. I can pick up some characters easily like CF, Mario, Lucina but have a heck of a time learning others like Sheik and Olimar because they're not my playstyle. I don't think difficulty and difficulty learning characters is the same thing.

Finally I'm off the phone. Anyone want to wifi now?

 

[Ffamran]

I hate the crisis mode challenges or whatever they're called in Uprising. It forces me to "play badly" so I'm in crisis mode and then I have to figure out when the boss is going to die. Really? Perfect boss fights would be better since that forces you to play better instead of, "Hey, let's get to the last hit of this boss and take damage so we have one hit left before we both die. Oh, wait. The boss has 5 more hits."

Everything about Uprising is fun so far, except the hand cramps.