Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[rabbit.soaring]

If Sakurai is replaced, I can't see the new director not buffing Zelda. ...right?

 

[Salad Bowl]

If Sakurai is replaced, I can't see the new director not buffing Zelda. ...right?

If Sakurai was replaced. Smash wouldn't be smash anymore.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

If Sakurai was replaced. Smash wouldn't be smash anymore.

What do you mean by that?

 

[SBphiloz4]

By this logic, I'm pretty sure Zelda seems OP because only the most specialist of specialists (us sistahs) use her online, and win because For Glory is mostly riddled with bad players.

No wonder we only got a 0.7% utilt buff!

 

[Lozjam]

If Sakurai is replaced, I can't see the new director not buffing Zelda. ...right?

If Sakurai is replaced, we could get a Canonical Ganondorf(I hope they keep his play style, but I certainly wouldn't mind him actually playing like he did in the LoZ games. Maybe give him a projectile with dead mans volley), a buffed Zelda, a decloned Gay(or maybe just a cut), and Sheik, Diddy, ZSS, Sonic, and irrelevina nerfs. Ah, I can see it now....

 

[LiteralGrill]

This actually worries me a bit. Just looking at online data doesn't really warrant an accurate view of how the characters do, and who might need a buff/nerf. The skill of the player needs to be noted too, because even with a crappy character, they can beat a random using almost anyone.

Alright guys, time to lose with Zelda as much as possible online so that he'll look at her data and buff. Lez go.

Cool to see me quoted here, but Sakurai mentioned that with Little Mac he still used the data to nerf him despite him losing a LOT.

 

[Mocha]

By this logic, I'm pretty sure Zelda seems OP because only the most specialist of specialists (us sistahs) use her online, and win because For Glory is mostly riddled with bad players.

No wonder we only got a 0.7% utilt buff!

Not to mention, it'll make her up b look even more broken, cause that's almost all she kills with on wifi, not counting random Phantom/Din's kills, or f-smashes that don't whiff.

Guys...


Girls...

What would you do if they nerfed her up b? And buffed nothing else?

Cool to see me quoted here, but Sakurai mentioned that with Little Mac he still used the data to nerf him despite him losing a LOT.

Hah I read that awhile back.

But still, would the win/loss ratio on wifi really help give the community a better view on who needs to be buffed/nerfed? Little Mac seems to have been nerfed from over usage, not victories. I don't know... I feel like we'll just be going in circles at this rate.

Whenever Sakurai is 'done' with patch balancing, the least used characters/characters with less victories may be at an advantage compared to the ones that were frequently used from the beginning.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Cool to see me quoted here, but Sakurai mentioned that with Little Mac he still used the data to nerf him despite him losing a LOT.

Wasn't Mac a special case? Sakurai saw that Mac also had an abnormal amount of players in FG. If Zelda has a low amount of players and low win rate, he might make the connection.

 

[Salad Bowl]

What do you mean by that?

If someone else was to take smash into they're own hands, the game wouldn't be the same. Sakurais humor is what makes the game special. We wouldn't have duck hunt or wii fit in smash. It wouldn't be the same

Ok guys he said the melee wouldn't have a competitive future but look at it now. He's a great director but he's wrong about smash wii u.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

If someone else was to take smash into they're own hands, the game wouldn't be the same. Sakurais humor is what makes the game special. We wouldn't have duck hunt or wii fit in smash. It wouldn't be the same

Ok guys he said the melee wouldn't have a competitive future but look at it now. He's a great director but he's wrong about smash wii u.

I love Duck Hunt and Wii Fit, but if I could choose between a balanced, competitive game and an amusing, crazy one I'd take the competitive one any day. idk if you can compare Sm4sh to Melee. I mean, melee has all those crazy glitches, and judging from Peach, if the dev team discovers anything that wasn't meant to be there, they'll remove it, even if it's relatively harmless.

 

[Lozjam]

If someone else was to take smash into they're own hands, the game wouldn't be the same. Sakurais humor is what makes the game special. We wouldn't have duck hunt or wii fit in smash. It wouldn't be the same

Ok guys he said the melee wouldn't have a competitive future but look at it now. He's a great director but he's wrong about smash wii u.

Idk, there are plenty of people with that same sense of humor, and Aonuma is one of them. Just as Mario and Zelda were just great without Miyamoto, Smash will be just fine without Sakurai.
@ Mocha
Zelda would almost never be used, and would be a laughing stock. It will not be pretty if that happened.

 

[evmaxy54]

Guys...


Girls...

What would you do if they nerfed her up b? And buffed nothing else?

I would do a Hyrule Candy & drop her for Lucina

 

[rabbit.soaring]

I would do a Hyrule Candy & drop her for Lucina

aw what why Lucina>Marth

 

[evmaxy54]

aw what why Lucina>Marth

Lucina has two smexy red haired costumes

But yet again, Marth is fabulous

 

[Salad Bowl]

I can't see anyone else taking over smash. Sakurai did a lot for smash wii u like he missed his birthday and went through injuries.

 

[Mocha]

Lucina has two smexy red haired costumes

But yet again, Marth is fabulous

View attachment 34399

Omg Zelda's face there is amazing. Going to take that image later after I'm done with work

 

[BJN39]

Lucina has two smexy red haired costumes

But yet again, Marth is fabulous

View attachment 34399

omfq THAT, is why I's pick her too xD

By chance, do you mean the deep red haired one? Or the light red haired one. LOL, edits...

BUT omfq that pic I'm dying more.

Anyways, Mocha voiced my true fear; if they only see FW's power from Zeldurps, and get rid of it. >,< It was the only thing about the possibility of no patches made me happy.

 

[BJN39]

oop double post.

Sew, not many of y'all got to see this yet, but while I was making some tests for tables that could be used for JigglyZelda's MU thread, I made an "Example" table:

Random Done up Example:

| 10:90
Pros|LOL you're Zelda. Are there any?
Cons|This sword image is simply broken. Everyone says so.
Key Moves|Farore's Wind: It's necessary for every MU lol.
Notes|This sword. IS BROKEN.
Stages|Take it anywhere. It doesn't matter where you take it IT WILL CUT YEW.

 

[ZombieBran]

I'd be okay with a mild FW nerf if AND ONLY IF Zelda is buffed in so many other ways. Brawl Zelda smashes (with no DI) and more at least.

 

[Mocha]

Sakurai said:

If I wanted to, I'm sure I could make a more hardcore Smash Brothers game. I could make the game speed much faster, increase the number of inputs...but then, beginners would no longer be able to play the game. When the game becomes more like a sport, a tool that more strictly rewards the player with more skill, the game tapers off more, like a mountain. Just like how a mountain tapers off into its peak, that area becomes more and more narrow

Does he really care that much about the casual community, or is that just an excuse? He's given the casuals a plethora of options to play the game this time around; items, a casual online mode, Smash Run, etc. I don't see how making the game faster would cause him to lose casuals - if anything, they may actually become more interested in trying the game competitively.

Not to mention, who's still gonna be playing the Smash games a ton years later? We are. Sure, there'll still be casuals, but chances are they'll likely get bored of the game in time, and be playing something else. I'm not saying competitive players are 'better' than casuals, but we are more likely to be still playing this than they are.

When Brawl's lolwifi service got shut down, and people found a way to hack so that they could play online again - I can tell you right now that most of these people were NOT casuals.

Anyway, I'm sorry, but I hardly think this is a reason to justify not making the game 'more competitive'. I still respect Sakurai and I enjoy the Smash series, but I think this is a weak reasoning.

 

[evmaxy54]

@ BJN39 The duller coloured one, personally. I love that shade & it works looks gorgeous with the black armour she's got on.
Though the deep red colour looks luxurious on her too.

 

[Lozjam]

I can't see anyone else taking over smash. Sakurai did a lot for smash wii u like he missed his birthday and went through injuries.

He has tendinitis, which is something I have in common with him.
The thing about Sakurai, is he does too much work himself. Something that isn't healthy for him, nor the game. Smash 4 turned out great(though I hate Smash Tour with a passion. It is so stupid, and they should have focused that development time either on an adventure mode, or more characters. Though, I also think Smash 3DS was a waste as well. Just think how even more amazing Smash Wii U would be if the 3DS version didn't exist.) but it has problems covered too much by Sakurai's ideals. Let's take a look at Aonuma in comparison. Aonuma listens to both his development team and his fans. He realized some of his ideals in the past, such as lack of exploration in SS and lack of overall innovation, were flawed and Aonuma went to fix it. He not only wanted to fix these problems, but he wants to fix problems that every Zelda game had. He made A Link Between Worlds to check this mentality, and to his suspense, he was very correct. Aonuma also wanted to see how players liked exploring a world, so he made WWHD. He is not only going to apply these ideals to Zelda Wii U, he is going to improve upon them and fix the problems people had with ALBW and WWHD had. This is extremely good for the series, and is what makes me excited for Zelda Wii U. Aonuma also gives his developers more freedom, allowing for more innovative design. We saw that in ALBW's dungeons, and I have to say, the dungeons were amazing.
Sakurai however, keeps the same mindset in his ideals. Creating lack of innovation, and little improvement among this whole series. Smash 4 is still changed from Brawl, but it is still the least changed game in the series.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Does he really care that much about the casual community, or is that just an excuse? He's given the casuals a plethora of options to play the game this time around; items, a casual online mode, Smash Run, etc. I don't see how making the game faster would cause him to lose casuals - if anything, they may actually become more interested in trying the game competitively.

Not to mention, who's still gonna be playing the Smash games a ton years later? We are. Sure, there'll still be casuals, but chances are they'll likely get bored of the game in time, and be playing something else. I'm not saying competitive players are 'better' than casuals, but we are more likely to be still playing this than they are.

When Brawl's lolwifi service got shut down, and people found a way to hack so that they could play online again - I can tell you right now that most of these people were NOT casuals.

Anyway, I'm sorry, but I hardly think this is a reason to justify not making the game 'more competitive'. I still respect Sakurai and I enjoy the Smash series, but I think this is a weak reasoning.

I'm just happy that he didn't make brawl two. I think it's actually the perfect balance of casual and competitive. It's both offensive and defensive. No one wants a game that's all offensive or a game that's all defensive

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Yeah Sm4sh has been pretty good for the most part. I'd personally like more defensive options, but I'm a minority.

 

[Salad Bowl]

He has tendinitis, which is something I have in common with him.
The thing about Sakurai, is he does too much work himself. Something that isn't healthy for him, nor the game. Smash 4 turned out great(though I hate Smash Tour with a passion. It is so stupid, and they should have focused that development time either on an adventure mode, or more characters. Though, I also think Smash 3DS was a waste as well. Just think how even more amazing Smash Wii U would be if the 3DS version didn't exist.) but it has problems covered too much by Sakurai's ideals. Let's take a look at Aonuma in comparison. Aonuma listens to both his development team and his fans. He realized some of his ideals in the past, such as lack of exploration in SS and lack of overall innovation, were flawed and Aonuma went to fix it. He not only wanted to fix these problems, but he wants to fix problems that every Zelda game had. He made A Link Between Worlds to check this mentality, and to his suspense, he was very correct. Aonuma also wanted to see how players liked exploring a world, so he made WWHD. He is not only going to apply these ideals to Zelda Wii U, he is going to improve upon them and fix the problems people had with ALBW and WWHD had. This is extremely good for the series, and is what makes me excited for Zelda Wii U. Aonuma also gives his developers more freedom, allowing for more innovative design. We saw that in ALBW's dungeons, and I have to say, the dungeons were amazing.
Sakurai however, keeps the same mindset in his ideals. Creating lack of innovation, and little improvement among this whole series. Smash 4 is still changed from Brawl, but it is still the least changed game in the series.

Sakurai does listen to the fans tho.
Mewtwo
Charizard and lucarios final smash
Shulk
Little Mac
Lucina

 

[Mocha]

. Smash 4 turned out great(though I hate Smash Tour with a passion. It is so stupid, and they should have focused that development time either on an adventure mode, or more characters.

Subspace Emissary >>>>>> Smash Tour

The fact that I actually played Subspace Emissary all the way through more than once and had fun with it in co-op tells me that they had done something right with SSE. I think one of the big things about it too were the cut-scenes - I loved watching them as I played it through. And since we have a larger cast now, they could have had a lot of content. Zelda was so pretty in the Brawl cut-scenes too <3

 

[Lozjam]

Sakurai does listen to the fans tho.
Mewtwo
Charizard and lucarios final smash
Shulk
Little Mac
Lucina

Ganondorf
Link + Gay's Final smash
Mario's Final Smash
Mario Circuit Brawl
Dark Pit
Zelda Not being buffed
Ridley
"Smash is not a competitive game, get the **** out of here and play some other game"
Enough said.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Ganondorf
Link + Gay's Final smash
Mario's Final Smash
Mario Circuit Brawl
Dark Pit
Zelda Not being buffed
Ridley
"Smash is not a competitive game, get the **** out of here and play some other game"
Enough said.

I'm a Ridley hater
He said that about melee yet we ignored him and we'll do that with smash Wii u so I'll ignore the last one

 

[Mocha]

Lol Ridley

 

[SBphiloz4]

Zelda was so pretty in the Brawl cut-scenes too <3

She was~. But unfortunately, she was just kinda... there. Just like in TP.

Almost feels like she's... dare I say, irrelevant? But didn't we save that word for another character?

 

[Salad Bowl]

She was~. But unfortunately, she was just kinda... there. Just like in TP.

Almost feels like she's... dare I say, irrelevant? But didn't we save that word for another character?

I wouldn't complain. Umm where was jigglypuff during the SSE

 

[BJN39]

She was~. But unfortunately, she was just kinda... there. Just like in TP.

Almost feels like she's... dare I say, irrelevant? But didn't we save that word for another character?

Two, actually~

 

[Salad Bowl]

They legit just threw in jiggs at the end.

 

[Mocha]

She was~. But unfortunately, she was just kinda... there. Just like in TP.

Almost feels like she's... dare I say, irrelevant? But didn't we save that word for another character?

At least she showed up in like the very first cut-scene, along with her sis Peach.

But inevitably, Zelda had to be saved. Again. This time not by Link, heh.

 

[Lozjam]

I'm a Ridley hater
He said that about melee yet we ignored him and we'll do that with smash Wii u so I'll ignore the last one

I didn't care about Ridley not being in either, but the fact is, Sakurai is too stubborn to see that some of his ideals are stupid and need to be changed. This causes a lack of innovation, and a sign that a new developer needs to take the reigns.

 

[ZombieBran]

Zelda FWed into action in one of the first cutscenes!
I was like "FU** Yeah, my main being all stylish and shi*!"

And then she just decided that she needed to be Sheik to do things =(

 

[Salad Bowl]

I didn't care about Ridley not being in either, but the fact is, Sakurai is too stubborn to see that some of his ideals are stupid and need to be changed. This causes a lack of innovation, and a sign that a new developer needs to take the reigns.

I agree on a lot of his ideals doe. Putting Ridley in would ruin his character since he wouldn't be big And scary. Dark pit was was put in because they had extra time in development. Even if there wasn't dark out there wouldn't be any more extra characters anyways

 

[rabbit.soaring]

I agree on a lot of his ideals doe. Putting Ridley in would ruin his character since he wouldn't be big And scary. Dark pit was was put in because they had extra time in development. Even if there wasn't dark out there wouldn't be any more extra characters anyways

There's nothing wrong with that, but what about

Sakurai: I fought, I lost...these results and suffering from painful feelings is how the user base shrinks, and we want to avoid that with Smash. In that sense, Smash has many elements that are rather ambiguous and nebulous in regards to competition.

Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but this sounds a bit like "We deliberately add uncompetitive elements to the game so that it appeals to people who aren't good at the game, and so that those people won't have to acknowledge their lack of skill when they lose."

 

[Mocha]

Zelda FWed into action in one of the first cutscenes!
I was like "FU** Yeah, my main being all stylish and shi*!"

And then she just decided that she needed to be Sheik to do things =(

Omg the FW early on in that cut-scene was totally a foreshadowing for Smash 4, right?

Didn't she turn into Sheik after Snake saved her/Peach? Maybe he influenced her to go all ninja style once she saw the man in tights.

*sigh* It's like the character is totally forgotten. Rip soldier.

 

[Alphatron]

Hah! I didn't even realize @Hyrule Candy had ditched us. No wonder I hadn't seen him in the thread for some time. Well, it was good to have another optimistic Zelda main around for a while.

I'm friggin tired so I'm not gonna weigh in much on Sakurai's decisions right now. Instead, I'll just saw that Cruel melee / Cruel Brawl / Cruel Smash are the worst modes in the series and I'm not sure why they keep coming back.