Prynne
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
- Messages
- 115
The Zelda Matchup Anthology
Hello, Zeldas. I have been in correspondence with several other Project M Zeldas here on smashboards, primarily @
Downdraft
, during which, an idea for a series of matchup guides that are short, sweet, to the point, and as effective as possible was created. The logic for this undertaking comes from the fact that Project M is much matchup-based than its predecessor, Melee. You can have all the control of your character in the world, but lose to a character you know nothing about. This project should help to mitigate that problem, and to reduce the sense of unease one has when facing a matchup with an unfamiliar character. There is a lot of ground that has yet to be covered in the way of Zelda matchups. The plan is as follows:
Seek matchup advice on each individual character in Project M, and distill it into a relatively brief writeup, hopefully before 3.6 drops.
If you are interested in writing for the anthology, let me know below. Writing for a matchup will most certainly involve a combination of personal experience and research through the threads of other characters. Once you've done the writeup, it'll be peer reviewed by several top Zeldas (that are not myself), and edited accordingly. The goal of this is effectivity, not creativity.
When writing on the matchup, follow this template to the best of your ability.
Template
Favorability
Rate the Matchup on a scale of 1-5, 1 being it is very difficult for Zelda, 3 being the matchup is practically even, and 5 being that the matchup is fairly easy for Zelda.
Good Stages
A list of, at the very least, 4 stages that will benefit Zelda in this matchup, and give her an advantage, however slight it may be.
Bad Stages
A list of any stages that you must never go to against this character, for you will be at a disadvantage, unless otherwise specified.
General Strategy
What are you going to do from the moment you start the match to the moment you end it, and how? You are permitted to go overboard in how much you write, but remember that we are on a deadline.
Things to look out for
Will your opponent expect you to DI a certain way on a throw? Does your opponent have a trap that you need to be weary of? Things of this nature are good to put in here. Sometimes there won't be many, but every character should have at least 3 solid things that are not immediately visible on the surface that can be dangerous.
Videos
If applicable, a good video that shows two players of substantial skill level displaying the matchup at hand. Zelda doesn't have to be winning it, but a visual representation will be helpful.
Attribution
Anyone and everyone involved in the making of the writeup, including all sources.
Rate the Matchup on a scale of 1-5, 1 being it is very difficult for Zelda, 3 being the matchup is practically even, and 5 being that the matchup is fairly easy for Zelda.
Good Stages
A list of, at the very least, 4 stages that will benefit Zelda in this matchup, and give her an advantage, however slight it may be.
Bad Stages
A list of any stages that you must never go to against this character, for you will be at a disadvantage, unless otherwise specified.
General Strategy
What are you going to do from the moment you start the match to the moment you end it, and how? You are permitted to go overboard in how much you write, but remember that we are on a deadline.
Things to look out for
Will your opponent expect you to DI a certain way on a throw? Does your opponent have a trap that you need to be weary of? Things of this nature are good to put in here. Sometimes there won't be many, but every character should have at least 3 solid things that are not immediately visible on the surface that can be dangerous.
Videos
If applicable, a good video that shows two players of substantial skill level displaying the matchup at hand. Zelda doesn't have to be winning it, but a visual representation will be helpful.
Attribution
Anyone and everyone involved in the making of the writeup, including all sources.
Matchups that are currently available. If you would like to take one, just let me know.
If a matchup is white, it is open for the taking.
If it is green, it is in progress.
If it is red it is complete, for the time being.
Bowser - Prynne
Captain Falcon - Downdraft
Charizard
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong - Downdraft
Falco - noobftw
Fox - Black Mamba
Game & Watch - getsafe
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers - Downdraft
Ike
Ivysaur - Downdraft
Jigglypuff - Downdraft
King Dedede
Kirby
Link - Vitriform
Lucario - Black Mamba
Lucas - OGS Delta
Luigi
Mario - Downdraft
Marth - Prynne
Meta Knight - Prynne
Mewtwo - Downdraft
Ness - Downdraft
Olimar
Peach - Sanclaira
Pikachu
Pit - Downdraft
ROB
Roy - Vitriform
Samus - Downdraft
Sheik - noobftw
Snake
Sonic - jtm94
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf - Kaeldiar
Yoshi - Prynne
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus - ted dorosheff
Here is where the matchups will go once they are complete
Bowser
Bowser
Favorability
3
Good Stages
FD
Smashville
Dreamland
Norfair
Bad Stages
Warioware
Yoshi’s Island
Yoshi’s Story
Green Hill
This matchup can simply come down to “Room and Lack of platforms” = Good, and “platforms but no space and tiny blastzones” = Bad. Bowsers have incredible platform movement and an egregious amount of ledge invincibility to boot, so bear that in mind when and if you counterpick.
General Strategy
As said by @
Kaeldiar
, Bowser loses to the Z button. You see that purple capsule-shaped button at the top of your controller? Press it to win.
In all honesty, “Just grab him” is a much harder feat to pull off than one would expect. Yes, Bowser is huge and slow, but his hitboxes are also huge, and come out much faster than you would ever want them to.
Your Neutral game should focus probably at least partially on telecancel mindgames. Din’s is always useful to have hanging around, but Bowser can power through it like tissue paper, so don’t rely on it too hard to poke with, and never ever ever throw one out if he’s a stone’s throw away from you. Spacing near Bowser is difficult, because although he can’t cover a lot of space quickly, his range is surprising at best, and will catch you the moment you let your guard down.
Honestly, a lot of our normals and aerials become sub-optimal in the neutral, since you’re constantly under threat of armor. I’m not saying not to use them, but a misused ground option that isn’t grab can lead to some unwarranted damage. Be careful with ftilt and Nayru’s especially, for they are fairly useful.
You should be looking for a grab, almost 100% of the time. Once you do that, do Zelda things. I find dthrow techchase fairly reliable. Fthrow kick from there is a DI trap.
Bowser gets trapped in your multihits very easily, so if you can, lead into an Usmash. From the ground, starting with Usmash alone may not help, as Bowser’s armor can protect him.
You may have some trouble killing him, as he can armor through the first hits of Usmash, and can crouch cancel kicks for quite a bit of time. He’ll probably have to be in the air to kill, at least at a reasonable percentage.
Edgeguarding is a bit difficult in this matchup. His Up B plows through Din’s, and you’ll get hit by hitboxes if you go for a dtilt or dsmash. There is a decent sized spot on the top of his body that’s exposed during his aerial upB, so exploit that with a Din’s or a down air.
If you’ve got a good 90-100% on him, try for the old Kick or Fsmash. Either one should do the job, and if it doesn’t, follow him into the abyss and edgeguard to the best of your ability.
Things to looks out for
Bowsers are known for their Platform Movement and utilization of ledge invincibility. On the average, it’s very difficult to tell when you can hit Bowser with a normal move that isn’t a grab.
1. SideB -> Uair
2. DownB to end false vertical combos
3. Armor armor armor. It’ll get you 9 times out of 10. Dash attack and Nair are fairly common and have much armor.
Attribution
Kaeldiar & Downdraft
Favorability
3
Good Stages
FD
Smashville
Dreamland
Norfair
Bad Stages
Warioware
Yoshi’s Island
Yoshi’s Story
Green Hill
This matchup can simply come down to “Room and Lack of platforms” = Good, and “platforms but no space and tiny blastzones” = Bad. Bowsers have incredible platform movement and an egregious amount of ledge invincibility to boot, so bear that in mind when and if you counterpick.
General Strategy
As said by @
Kaeldiar
, Bowser loses to the Z button. You see that purple capsule-shaped button at the top of your controller? Press it to win.In all honesty, “Just grab him” is a much harder feat to pull off than one would expect. Yes, Bowser is huge and slow, but his hitboxes are also huge, and come out much faster than you would ever want them to.
Your Neutral game should focus probably at least partially on telecancel mindgames. Din’s is always useful to have hanging around, but Bowser can power through it like tissue paper, so don’t rely on it too hard to poke with, and never ever ever throw one out if he’s a stone’s throw away from you. Spacing near Bowser is difficult, because although he can’t cover a lot of space quickly, his range is surprising at best, and will catch you the moment you let your guard down.
Honestly, a lot of our normals and aerials become sub-optimal in the neutral, since you’re constantly under threat of armor. I’m not saying not to use them, but a misused ground option that isn’t grab can lead to some unwarranted damage. Be careful with ftilt and Nayru’s especially, for they are fairly useful.
You should be looking for a grab, almost 100% of the time. Once you do that, do Zelda things. I find dthrow techchase fairly reliable. Fthrow kick from there is a DI trap.
Bowser gets trapped in your multihits very easily, so if you can, lead into an Usmash. From the ground, starting with Usmash alone may not help, as Bowser’s armor can protect him.
You may have some trouble killing him, as he can armor through the first hits of Usmash, and can crouch cancel kicks for quite a bit of time. He’ll probably have to be in the air to kill, at least at a reasonable percentage.
Edgeguarding is a bit difficult in this matchup. His Up B plows through Din’s, and you’ll get hit by hitboxes if you go for a dtilt or dsmash. There is a decent sized spot on the top of his body that’s exposed during his aerial upB, so exploit that with a Din’s or a down air.
If you’ve got a good 90-100% on him, try for the old Kick or Fsmash. Either one should do the job, and if it doesn’t, follow him into the abyss and edgeguard to the best of your ability.
Things to looks out for
Bowsers are known for their Platform Movement and utilization of ledge invincibility. On the average, it’s very difficult to tell when you can hit Bowser with a normal move that isn’t a grab.
1. SideB -> Uair
2. DownB to end false vertical combos
3. Armor armor armor. It’ll get you 9 times out of 10. Dash attack and Nair are fairly common and have much armor.
Attribution
Kaeldiar & Downdraft
Captain Falcon
Favorability
2.5
Good Stages
Fountain of Dreams
Pokémon Stadium 2
Dreamland
Norfair
Smashville
Final Destination
Bad Stages
Green Hill Zone
Warioware
Yoshi's Story
Stage choice is more a matter of preference, depending on how confident you feel avoiding Falcon’s Combos. If you want to combo him and risk being 0-deathed, go less platforms, even so far as FD. If you want to have a little safety, pick stages with platforms in order to tech out of combos, and stages that are larger, for survivability. Additionally, Captain Falcon’s Dashdance is less effective on smaller stages, but so is your Din’s and Farore’s (at least when he is on the ground). Platforms will also increase Falcon’s movement, so be weary.
General Strategy
If you have the opportunity, immediately set up a Din’s on the ground to slow his movement. From there, look for an opportunity to ftilt, usmash, or uthrow in order to begin your combo, which can be continued with nair, din’s, kick, or uair, reliably. Usmash andUair will also chain on certain stages, such as FD.This strategy will work to mid percents, and decrease as you approach the 80-90% range, at which time you will may difficulty performing effective combos. LK, uair, and Fsmash will be your primary killers. His recovery can be edgeguarded with Din's and then any of the following options, depending on the scenario. If he goes for the sweetspot, you could try Din's or dair, depending on the level of risk you'd like to take. If he misses the sweetspot from below, dtilt>dsmash, or just dsmash. If he goes for the stage, Fsmash becomes an option as well. If he goes for a platform or higher, then fair, or even bair. On smaller stages, you can double Usmash, nair, din’s, and then LK for a kill. If Falcon hits your shield, be prepared to retaliate, though he will often L cancel and jab or dash away before you can do anything. LK and nair OoS are as god as ever. If you shield too much, he will grab and combo you, so be careful. Grounded Nayru’s will stuff his approach from the ground, but it is highly punishable.
Things to Look out for
D-throw -> Knee or dair, depending on your DI
D-air -> Knee
Uair’s offstage – DI Away, and save your jump, you could be knee’d from your jump or the startup of Farore’s
Speed - Captain Falcon is quick enough to punish the startup on Din's and Farore's.
Videos
WLG #7 Winner's Finals - Syrox (Falcon, Fox) vs Zhime (Zelda, Shiek)
Attribution
Information contributed by BlackMamba, Downdraft, the_irish_dude, and WhiteCrow.
2.5
Good Stages
Fountain of Dreams
Pokémon Stadium 2
Dreamland
Norfair
Smashville
Final Destination
Bad Stages
Green Hill Zone
Warioware
Yoshi's Story
Stage choice is more a matter of preference, depending on how confident you feel avoiding Falcon’s Combos. If you want to combo him and risk being 0-deathed, go less platforms, even so far as FD. If you want to have a little safety, pick stages with platforms in order to tech out of combos, and stages that are larger, for survivability. Additionally, Captain Falcon’s Dashdance is less effective on smaller stages, but so is your Din’s and Farore’s (at least when he is on the ground). Platforms will also increase Falcon’s movement, so be weary.
General Strategy
If you have the opportunity, immediately set up a Din’s on the ground to slow his movement. From there, look for an opportunity to ftilt, usmash, or uthrow in order to begin your combo, which can be continued with nair, din’s, kick, or uair, reliably. Usmash andUair will also chain on certain stages, such as FD.This strategy will work to mid percents, and decrease as you approach the 80-90% range, at which time you will may difficulty performing effective combos. LK, uair, and Fsmash will be your primary killers. His recovery can be edgeguarded with Din's and then any of the following options, depending on the scenario. If he goes for the sweetspot, you could try Din's or dair, depending on the level of risk you'd like to take. If he misses the sweetspot from below, dtilt>dsmash, or just dsmash. If he goes for the stage, Fsmash becomes an option as well. If he goes for a platform or higher, then fair, or even bair. On smaller stages, you can double Usmash, nair, din’s, and then LK for a kill. If Falcon hits your shield, be prepared to retaliate, though he will often L cancel and jab or dash away before you can do anything. LK and nair OoS are as god as ever. If you shield too much, he will grab and combo you, so be careful. Grounded Nayru’s will stuff his approach from the ground, but it is highly punishable.
Things to Look out for
D-throw -> Knee or dair, depending on your DI
D-air -> Knee
Uair’s offstage – DI Away, and save your jump, you could be knee’d from your jump or the startup of Farore’s
Speed - Captain Falcon is quick enough to punish the startup on Din's and Farore's.
Videos
WLG #7 Winner's Finals - Syrox (Falcon, Fox) vs Zhime (Zelda, Shiek)
Attribution
Information contributed by BlackMamba, Downdraft, the_irish_dude, and WhiteCrow.
Charizard
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Favorability
4
Stages
The matchup favors Zelda to the extent that stage selection is significantly overshadowed by player skill. Yoshi's Island is generally a bad stage for Zelda, so I'd ban that and Castle Siege. Fatties like small stages, but Zelda can hold her own versus DK on Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, WarioWare, and Green Hill Zone.
General Strategy
DK arguably has inferior approach options than Zelda. F-tilt, U-tilt, U-smash, and Ribbon are good combo starters at 0. Once you've got him to about 30-40 damage, you can juggle him with U-air, U-throw, U-smash, and N-air and finish with sweetspotted D-air or U-air. Save lightning kicks unless it's your only option or will put him off stage for an edgeguarding situation. DK hates Din's, and the manual detonation is actually a good tool to harass him. He has rather limited punishes on Zelda, but they are dangerous.
Things to look out for
DK's forward throw allows him to throw characters up, forwards, or backwards. Anticipate the direction. If he throws you up, prepare for a punch or U-air. If he throws you forward off stage, prepare for F-air. If he throws you backwards, prepare for B-air. As a fatty, DK has power. His throw game and speed are what distinguish him from the other fatties. Don't underestimate your opponent, but if you play the matchup correctly, you should be able to win comfortably assuming equal skill.
Video
Face v. POOB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc6vuUqnP_0
4
Stages
The matchup favors Zelda to the extent that stage selection is significantly overshadowed by player skill. Yoshi's Island is generally a bad stage for Zelda, so I'd ban that and Castle Siege. Fatties like small stages, but Zelda can hold her own versus DK on Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, WarioWare, and Green Hill Zone.
General Strategy
DK arguably has inferior approach options than Zelda. F-tilt, U-tilt, U-smash, and Ribbon are good combo starters at 0. Once you've got him to about 30-40 damage, you can juggle him with U-air, U-throw, U-smash, and N-air and finish with sweetspotted D-air or U-air. Save lightning kicks unless it's your only option or will put him off stage for an edgeguarding situation. DK hates Din's, and the manual detonation is actually a good tool to harass him. He has rather limited punishes on Zelda, but they are dangerous.
Things to look out for
DK's forward throw allows him to throw characters up, forwards, or backwards. Anticipate the direction. If he throws you up, prepare for a punch or U-air. If he throws you forward off stage, prepare for F-air. If he throws you backwards, prepare for B-air. As a fatty, DK has power. His throw game and speed are what distinguish him from the other fatties. Don't underestimate your opponent, but if you play the matchup correctly, you should be able to win comfortably assuming equal skill.
Video
Face v. POOB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc6vuUqnP_0
Falco
Favorability 3
Good stages
FD, Dreamland, Norfair, FoD, GHZ, Smashville
Bad Stages
Warioware, Yoshi's Story, Yoshi's Story (Brawl), Battlefield
Stagewise I feel that I can take falco on the legal stages pretty confidently even with the bad stages because I know I can kill easier as well. Warioware and Yoshi's story are more helpful to falco because they are a bit too small. Yoshi's Brawl's middle platform really messes up with your combos and the angles of the stage makes you mess up telecanceling sometimes. And battlefield to me is one of zelda's harder stages to play on since she can't cover that much space with one din's anymore.
General Strategy
The moment you get a grab you should try to confirm a combo that will launch falco off the stage (The usual zelda things on spacies with upsmashes into grabs into chain throws and then lightning kick or back throw to get him off stage) . After he is off the stage you can throw din's to cover the area he will jump or hit him preemptively. Din's out on it's own won't beat the middle or end of phantasm or firefox so putting din's by the edge does not help as much. When edgeguarding if the din's doesn't hit I usually break it down into 4 options which you can tell from the placement of falco.
1)Falco recovers from below: Wait for the end a little in the stage for the edge of down tilt or down smash to hit and hit him on reaction since they are pretty fast moves. If down smash hits falco is dead unless they tech but then you can do it again on reaction.
2)Falco recovers to the ledge horizantally: You can wait to do down smash/down tilit/fsmash to edge guard him.
3)Falco recovers onto stage slightly above the ledge: You can either forward smash the phantasm or firebird. Downsmash can work slightly but if they are too high they will hit you. I usually just react with uptilt and try to edge guard again. Naryu's also works but it doesn't hit falco far enough to kill him most of the time.
4)Falco recovers high: If it's on stages with platforms above the ledge then be prepared to nair their landing. If it's without the ledge you can either grab and throw them back, nair, or naryu them out.
In terms of neutral the lasers are falco's tool for getting in and applying pressure. If falco plays patiently then it's going to be hard for you to get that grab or upsmash. But if he is playing pressure based buffer roll or shield and wait for the moment to punish him hard. You can approach with LC Naryu's to reflect some lasers. Dash attack if they are close or CC downsmash or downtilt on jabs. Neutral against falco is annoying for all characters but if we play our patient game and punish falco can't do much after the edgeguard part.
Floaties usually give falco trouble since you'll live for a long time and kill falco with ease on the punish game. Playing patient infuriates them too since they usually always play aggro. If falco pressure gets to you, you will lose the match up because then he will go to spike you and take control of the game. Dying under 80% isn't what you want since you want your stocks to last forever so watch out for the spikes!
What to look out for
Shine kill off of the top on small stages
Fsmash to beat out teleport
Dair-> Dair
Dash attack->Dair
Jab when you're at high percent since it can lead to forward smash or anything really
DI up throw away. DI shine behind him and in his combos you can DI away or up and out to escape falco combos but you will still take like 40-60%
Good stages
FD, Dreamland, Norfair, FoD, GHZ, Smashville
Bad Stages
Warioware, Yoshi's Story, Yoshi's Story (Brawl), Battlefield
Stagewise I feel that I can take falco on the legal stages pretty confidently even with the bad stages because I know I can kill easier as well. Warioware and Yoshi's story are more helpful to falco because they are a bit too small. Yoshi's Brawl's middle platform really messes up with your combos and the angles of the stage makes you mess up telecanceling sometimes. And battlefield to me is one of zelda's harder stages to play on since she can't cover that much space with one din's anymore.
General Strategy
The moment you get a grab you should try to confirm a combo that will launch falco off the stage (The usual zelda things on spacies with upsmashes into grabs into chain throws and then lightning kick or back throw to get him off stage) . After he is off the stage you can throw din's to cover the area he will jump or hit him preemptively. Din's out on it's own won't beat the middle or end of phantasm or firefox so putting din's by the edge does not help as much. When edgeguarding if the din's doesn't hit I usually break it down into 4 options which you can tell from the placement of falco.
1)Falco recovers from below: Wait for the end a little in the stage for the edge of down tilt or down smash to hit and hit him on reaction since they are pretty fast moves. If down smash hits falco is dead unless they tech but then you can do it again on reaction.
2)Falco recovers to the ledge horizantally: You can wait to do down smash/down tilit/fsmash to edge guard him.
3)Falco recovers onto stage slightly above the ledge: You can either forward smash the phantasm or firebird. Downsmash can work slightly but if they are too high they will hit you. I usually just react with uptilt and try to edge guard again. Naryu's also works but it doesn't hit falco far enough to kill him most of the time.
4)Falco recovers high: If it's on stages with platforms above the ledge then be prepared to nair their landing. If it's without the ledge you can either grab and throw them back, nair, or naryu them out.
In terms of neutral the lasers are falco's tool for getting in and applying pressure. If falco plays patiently then it's going to be hard for you to get that grab or upsmash. But if he is playing pressure based buffer roll or shield and wait for the moment to punish him hard. You can approach with LC Naryu's to reflect some lasers. Dash attack if they are close or CC downsmash or downtilt on jabs. Neutral against falco is annoying for all characters but if we play our patient game and punish falco can't do much after the edgeguard part.
Floaties usually give falco trouble since you'll live for a long time and kill falco with ease on the punish game. Playing patient infuriates them too since they usually always play aggro. If falco pressure gets to you, you will lose the match up because then he will go to spike you and take control of the game. Dying under 80% isn't what you want since you want your stocks to last forever so watch out for the spikes!
What to look out for
Shine kill off of the top on small stages
Fsmash to beat out teleport
Dair-> Dair
Dash attack->Dair
Jab when you're at high percent since it can lead to forward smash or anything really
DI up throw away. DI shine behind him and in his combos you can DI away or up and out to escape falco combos but you will still take like 40-60%
Fox
Favorability
3
Good Stages
FOD
FD
GHZ
Dreamland
Bad Stages
Norfair
DP
Yoshi’s Island
Battlefield
PS2
You can kill each other very early (Fox knocks her off the top and Zelda takes him off the sides), so Warioware and Yoshi’s Story are tossups. Lightning Kick tends to kill slightly earlier than Fox’s upsmash though, so if dashdancing makes you nervous, you might want to consider those stages. You can combo Fox into oblivion on the stages on the Good list due to lack of/formation of platforms, and most of them have high ceilings as well. Avoid big stages with large stretches of flat ground as you can get laser/dashdance camped very easily. Battlefield allows Fox to chase/trap you with u-airs on the platforms.
General Strategy
The main challenge in this matchup is getting in. Fox can be very hard to approach, but on smaller stages, land canceled Naryu’s into grab, f-tilt or u-tilt can initiate combos. At low-mid percentages, u-throw chains with itself, u-tilt and u-smash and can lead into LK or U-air kills. On medium-large stages, you’ll have to work harder to approach mixing things up with your B moves. Most Fox players will try and go heavy pressure mode on smaller stages, so the key to winning is often just a solid punish game. U-smash OoS is great after shielding through shine pressure. UpB Oos to escape pressure or start combos (reappear in the same spot or nearby if you want to use it for this). Fair and bair OoS can punish his whiffed up smashes hard (if you don’t feel comfortable spacing them, it’s sometimes better to go for n-air since a whiffed LK can give them a second chance at the U-Smash). N-air tech chases onto platforms nearly always work. Since his options in neutral are better than yours, getting him offstage and keeping him there can make your life easier. D-tilts at the ledge beat his Firefox if well-timed, and can lead to meteor kills or D-smash kills (take advantage of that intangible leg). You can use the side-B detonation on Din’s Fire to interrupt his recoveries. Dash attacks are effective for edgeguarding when Fox misses a sweetspot or is in hitstun while near the edge. Dash attack can also be used to extend combos in some situations, as it has the same angle as up throw. F-smash can be used to punish illusion if used to get back to the stage.
Things to Look Out for
Side b-> U-air: at high percentages Phantasm leaves you in enough hitstun for an U-air, so... don't get hit by it
D-throw-> Up Smash: mix up your techs on the down throw
U-throw-> U-air: DI behind him on the U-throw and he’ll usually miss the U-air. Don’tyou’re your jump unless he’s jumping toward you and don’t try challenging u-air- you’ll lose. Drift toward the ledge or a platform, air-dodge downward, or if he’s very far away try teleporting down to a safe location.
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfhSYA5FdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X091nbJf6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IkyOuoa-ss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BhtX4RzME8
Attribution
Black Mamba and Kaeldiar
3
Good Stages
FOD
FD
GHZ
Dreamland
Bad Stages
Norfair
DP
Yoshi’s Island
Battlefield
PS2
You can kill each other very early (Fox knocks her off the top and Zelda takes him off the sides), so Warioware and Yoshi’s Story are tossups. Lightning Kick tends to kill slightly earlier than Fox’s upsmash though, so if dashdancing makes you nervous, you might want to consider those stages. You can combo Fox into oblivion on the stages on the Good list due to lack of/formation of platforms, and most of them have high ceilings as well. Avoid big stages with large stretches of flat ground as you can get laser/dashdance camped very easily. Battlefield allows Fox to chase/trap you with u-airs on the platforms.
General Strategy
The main challenge in this matchup is getting in. Fox can be very hard to approach, but on smaller stages, land canceled Naryu’s into grab, f-tilt or u-tilt can initiate combos. At low-mid percentages, u-throw chains with itself, u-tilt and u-smash and can lead into LK or U-air kills. On medium-large stages, you’ll have to work harder to approach mixing things up with your B moves. Most Fox players will try and go heavy pressure mode on smaller stages, so the key to winning is often just a solid punish game. U-smash OoS is great after shielding through shine pressure. UpB Oos to escape pressure or start combos (reappear in the same spot or nearby if you want to use it for this). Fair and bair OoS can punish his whiffed up smashes hard (if you don’t feel comfortable spacing them, it’s sometimes better to go for n-air since a whiffed LK can give them a second chance at the U-Smash). N-air tech chases onto platforms nearly always work. Since his options in neutral are better than yours, getting him offstage and keeping him there can make your life easier. D-tilts at the ledge beat his Firefox if well-timed, and can lead to meteor kills or D-smash kills (take advantage of that intangible leg). You can use the side-B detonation on Din’s Fire to interrupt his recoveries. Dash attacks are effective for edgeguarding when Fox misses a sweetspot or is in hitstun while near the edge. Dash attack can also be used to extend combos in some situations, as it has the same angle as up throw. F-smash can be used to punish illusion if used to get back to the stage.
Things to Look Out for
Side b-> U-air: at high percentages Phantasm leaves you in enough hitstun for an U-air, so... don't get hit by it
D-throw-> Up Smash: mix up your techs on the down throw
U-throw-> U-air: DI behind him on the U-throw and he’ll usually miss the U-air. Don’tyou’re your jump unless he’s jumping toward you and don’t try challenging u-air- you’ll lose. Drift toward the ledge or a platform, air-dodge downward, or if he’s very far away try teleporting down to a safe location.
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfhSYA5FdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X091nbJf6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IkyOuoa-ss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BhtX4RzME8
Attribution
Black Mamba and Kaeldiar
Game & Watch
Good Stages - anywhere with relatively close blast zones
warioware
GHZ
(yoshis fits this description but I tend to lose there)
FoD
these stages aren't terrible but aren't optimal:
Norfair
Pokémon Stadium 2
Smashville
Final Destination
General Strategy
This match up is absolutely terrible, definitely one of our worst.
What I've found to be most effective is staying within mid range ALL THE TIME
If you let him get too far away he gets to set the pace and approach as he sees fit.
If you get too close at the wrong time you get punished HARD
Kill moves here are Utilt, Uair, Kicks, and every once in a while Backthrow and Fsmash
The general idea here is to stay close enough that you can punish any of his most potent moves on reaction.
You can't combo him all that well so your goal is to do the most damage you can in one or two moves and reset/edge guard.
Over-extension gets you killed.
Fair and Nair are scary but have a decent amount of start-up. Keep your dashdance/wavedash game strong and slap him with a Nair or Kick every time you see him jump. Bacon kind of messes with this but you can punish it similarly.
on the ground his moves are significantly less scary. Our jab and Fsmash out range his but be careful of his Ftilt the outer hitboxes of our disjoints will pull his right into us.
Don't get caught in your shield, definitely don't try to shield grab. Your best bets OoS are buffered roll or WD. If you're feeling ballsy you can try rising Nair or a fade-away Fair/Bair but Dtilt and Jab usually catch you.
Use Din's sparingly. Rarely/never try to use it as a pestering projectile or to control space**. Bucket is terrifying.
You can try to bait out the bucket to net a kick though. sometimes letting him get a charge is worth it if it gets you a kill.
**You can use it to take stage back/close gaps though. He's either going to try to Fair or Bucket so Telecancel right behind Dins. If he Fairs, then shield (he'll have started the move high enough that you can shield grab it), and if he buckets you're free to punish with whatever. Be careful though, this isn't especially sneaky and if you go for it too much you'll get punished. Just try to stay close in the first place.
Down throw will be your go to off of grabs until you hit kill percent off of back throw.
I know this is kind of jumbled so simply put:
Stay close, but not too close. Take him to small stages to net early kills. Don't get hit.
Things to Look out for
Basically his entire kit. Don't get caught shielding. Don't get hit. Play all the footsies and don't let him be the aggressor. Always be up in his space and set the tempo.
Don't try to punish whiffs unless your timing is perfect, his moves have moderate start up but little to no end lag
warioware
GHZ
(yoshis fits this description but I tend to lose there)
FoD
these stages aren't terrible but aren't optimal:
Norfair
Pokémon Stadium 2
Smashville
Final Destination
General Strategy
This match up is absolutely terrible, definitely one of our worst.
What I've found to be most effective is staying within mid range ALL THE TIME
If you let him get too far away he gets to set the pace and approach as he sees fit.
If you get too close at the wrong time you get punished HARD
Kill moves here are Utilt, Uair, Kicks, and every once in a while Backthrow and Fsmash
The general idea here is to stay close enough that you can punish any of his most potent moves on reaction.
You can't combo him all that well so your goal is to do the most damage you can in one or two moves and reset/edge guard.
Over-extension gets you killed.
Fair and Nair are scary but have a decent amount of start-up. Keep your dashdance/wavedash game strong and slap him with a Nair or Kick every time you see him jump. Bacon kind of messes with this but you can punish it similarly.
on the ground his moves are significantly less scary. Our jab and Fsmash out range his but be careful of his Ftilt the outer hitboxes of our disjoints will pull his right into us.
Don't get caught in your shield, definitely don't try to shield grab. Your best bets OoS are buffered roll or WD. If you're feeling ballsy you can try rising Nair or a fade-away Fair/Bair but Dtilt and Jab usually catch you.
Use Din's sparingly. Rarely/never try to use it as a pestering projectile or to control space**. Bucket is terrifying.
You can try to bait out the bucket to net a kick though. sometimes letting him get a charge is worth it if it gets you a kill.
**You can use it to take stage back/close gaps though. He's either going to try to Fair or Bucket so Telecancel right behind Dins. If he Fairs, then shield (he'll have started the move high enough that you can shield grab it), and if he buckets you're free to punish with whatever. Be careful though, this isn't especially sneaky and if you go for it too much you'll get punished. Just try to stay close in the first place.
Down throw will be your go to off of grabs until you hit kill percent off of back throw.
I know this is kind of jumbled so simply put:
Stay close, but not too close. Take him to small stages to net early kills. Don't get hit.
Things to Look out for
Basically his entire kit. Don't get caught shielding. Don't get hit. Play all the footsies and don't let him be the aggressor. Always be up in his space and set the tempo.
Don't try to punish whiffs unless your timing is perfect, his moves have moderate start up but little to no end lag
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Favorability
3
Stages
TBD
I'm unfamiliar with the matchup. Ice Climbers are rare and didn't really exist in 3.5. Maybe 3.6 Beta will see interaction between good Ice Climbers and good Zeldas.
General Strategy
Separate the Ice Climbers then pick an Ice Climber to rack up damage on. Getting the Ice Climbers at significantly different percents will allow you to separate them easier and get Solo Ice Climber. Preferably, Popo has the higher damage, so you can take the stock. If you kill Nana, Popo is much weaker on his own. His Up-B has little vertical reach, so he can't recover if launched far out. He cannot infinite chaingrab Zelda. Ice Climbers have a heavy punish game and can rack up damage quickly on Zelda, but Zelda has good damage output herself. This is a matchup that you may just be able to feel out and play the general Zelda gameplan, which entails patience and punishing overcommitment. This is a matchup where Zelda does not have to be aggresive.
Things to look out for
Ice Climbers are known for chaingrabs and infinites, but I'm not sure if they have much of a grab game versus Zelda. Space your moves properly to avoid their hammer, which does more damage than the other hitboxes. Be wary of attacking shield since the other Ice Climber can counterattack. Remember that Ice Climbers can desync, so be careful attacking them when they're together and grounded since the other Ice Climber can interrupt a combo.
Videos
n/a
3
Stages
TBD
I'm unfamiliar with the matchup. Ice Climbers are rare and didn't really exist in 3.5. Maybe 3.6 Beta will see interaction between good Ice Climbers and good Zeldas.
General Strategy
Separate the Ice Climbers then pick an Ice Climber to rack up damage on. Getting the Ice Climbers at significantly different percents will allow you to separate them easier and get Solo Ice Climber. Preferably, Popo has the higher damage, so you can take the stock. If you kill Nana, Popo is much weaker on his own. His Up-B has little vertical reach, so he can't recover if launched far out. He cannot infinite chaingrab Zelda. Ice Climbers have a heavy punish game and can rack up damage quickly on Zelda, but Zelda has good damage output herself. This is a matchup that you may just be able to feel out and play the general Zelda gameplan, which entails patience and punishing overcommitment. This is a matchup where Zelda does not have to be aggresive.
Things to look out for
Ice Climbers are known for chaingrabs and infinites, but I'm not sure if they have much of a grab game versus Zelda. Space your moves properly to avoid their hammer, which does more damage than the other hitboxes. Be wary of attacking shield since the other Ice Climber can counterattack. Remember that Ice Climbers can desync, so be careful attacking them when they're together and grounded since the other Ice Climber can interrupt a combo.
Videos
n/a
Ike
Ivysaur
Favorability
2
Credit @@TreK for the rest of the info.
http://smashboards.com/threads/supe...d-updated-for-3-0.337770/page-4#post-18743910
Stages
According to TreK, Ivysaur is good on every stage, so she'll counterpick you where you hate playing most.
General Strategy
Apply shield pressure. Crouch canceling is effective versus many of her attacks besides tipper dtilt, tipper fair, dash attack and grab. Punish Ivysaur's tether after Ivysaur lands on stage or hit Ivysaur before Ivysaur touches the ground. Dash dance. Outside of bair, dtilt, and razor leaf, most of her moves are high committal, which means that they can be punished if used improperly. Don't focus on Ivysaur's healing mechanic.
Things to Look out for
1. one of the best edgeguarders in the game. She can intercetp most recoveries with bair (although it's possible to SDI if she hits you with both hits sometimes : SDI up if Ivy's doing a falling bair, SDI down if Ivy's doing a rising bair, pray for your life if Ivy does a bair at the apex of her jump), uair (belly stomp, place any hitbox above your head and you'll be fine), dair (powerful meteor, make sure you cancel it properly) and other moves.
2. decent shield pressure for a floaty. Nair is -2 on shield so you can't shieldgrab it, and if you shield razor leaf you WILL get grabbed. However, due to the amount of multihit moves she has, she's pretty weak to shield SDI
3. can get out of juggles pretty easily thanks to her momentum altering dair and uair
Video
PM @ GU Videogame and Music Fest 2: Steel Kangaroo (Ivysaur) vs Riot (Zelda)
2
Credit @@TreK for the rest of the info.
http://smashboards.com/threads/supe...d-updated-for-3-0.337770/page-4#post-18743910
Stages
According to TreK, Ivysaur is good on every stage, so she'll counterpick you where you hate playing most.
General Strategy
Apply shield pressure. Crouch canceling is effective versus many of her attacks besides tipper dtilt, tipper fair, dash attack and grab. Punish Ivysaur's tether after Ivysaur lands on stage or hit Ivysaur before Ivysaur touches the ground. Dash dance. Outside of bair, dtilt, and razor leaf, most of her moves are high committal, which means that they can be punished if used improperly. Don't focus on Ivysaur's healing mechanic.
Things to Look out for
1. one of the best edgeguarders in the game. She can intercetp most recoveries with bair (although it's possible to SDI if she hits you with both hits sometimes : SDI up if Ivy's doing a falling bair, SDI down if Ivy's doing a rising bair, pray for your life if Ivy does a bair at the apex of her jump), uair (belly stomp, place any hitbox above your head and you'll be fine), dair (powerful meteor, make sure you cancel it properly) and other moves.
2. decent shield pressure for a floaty. Nair is -2 on shield so you can't shieldgrab it, and if you shield razor leaf you WILL get grabbed. However, due to the amount of multihit moves she has, she's pretty weak to shield SDI
3. can get out of juggles pretty easily thanks to her momentum altering dair and uair
Video
PM @ GU Videogame and Music Fest 2: Steel Kangaroo (Ivysaur) vs Riot (Zelda)
Jigglypuff
Favorability
3
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Norfair
Distant Planet
WarioWare?
Bad Stages
I'm inexperienced with this matchup, but in theory, I'd imagine that Jigglypuff would enjoy stages with close side blast zones, so avoid those stages with the possible exception of WarioWare. Jigglypuff is good at edgeguarding and won't have trouble carrying Zelda offstage with Pound and B-air. Also, she can harrass Zelda with U-air so don't pick stages where it'd be hard to recover to or down to the stage.
General Strategy
Jigglypuff wants to land Rest on you or carry you off stage. Both are dangerous situations. However, if Rest ends the stock, you may be able to punish Jigglypuff upon respawn depending on your position. Jigglypuff is the lightest and floatiest character in the game. Don't attempt more than 1 or 2 hits in a row on her. Ideally, you'd bait Jigglypuff into approaching and punish mistakes with kicks. She'll die earlier than any other character to kicks and U-tilt, but you may opt to space kicks all day. Even if they grow stale, they'll still kill if hit on the first frame since Puff is super light. The matchup requires great patience and will likely bore you. Don't be aggressive.
Things to look out for
Avoid Rest, Rollout, and being put offstage on small stages, and you're in good shape. Her kill options are limited besides the ones listed, and she dies ridiculously early if you just wait her out.
Videos
None.
3
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Norfair
Distant Planet
WarioWare?
Bad Stages
I'm inexperienced with this matchup, but in theory, I'd imagine that Jigglypuff would enjoy stages with close side blast zones, so avoid those stages with the possible exception of WarioWare. Jigglypuff is good at edgeguarding and won't have trouble carrying Zelda offstage with Pound and B-air. Also, she can harrass Zelda with U-air so don't pick stages where it'd be hard to recover to or down to the stage.
General Strategy
Jigglypuff wants to land Rest on you or carry you off stage. Both are dangerous situations. However, if Rest ends the stock, you may be able to punish Jigglypuff upon respawn depending on your position. Jigglypuff is the lightest and floatiest character in the game. Don't attempt more than 1 or 2 hits in a row on her. Ideally, you'd bait Jigglypuff into approaching and punish mistakes with kicks. She'll die earlier than any other character to kicks and U-tilt, but you may opt to space kicks all day. Even if they grow stale, they'll still kill if hit on the first frame since Puff is super light. The matchup requires great patience and will likely bore you. Don't be aggressive.
Things to look out for
Avoid Rest, Rollout, and being put offstage on small stages, and you're in good shape. Her kill options are limited besides the ones listed, and she dies ridiculously early if you just wait her out.
Videos
None.
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Favorability
2
Good Stages
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams
Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Yoshi’s Island
Yoshi’s Story* (not as unfavorable)
Link can KO you off the top rather easily, and he does not die quickly due to his weight, so avoid stages with small top and large side blastzones. Norfair is one of your worst stages in this matchup because its layout lets him camp the platforms relatively noncommittally (although you can pester him with Din’s) and pelt you with his boomerang and Z-dropped bombs until you are at kill percent. Its blastzones also do you no favors with regard to kills or survivability. Stages with sloped sides allow for easier Spin Attack gimps, which is a good reason to avoid both Yoshi stages *(the small side blastzones of YS do have the potential to work in your favor, possibly making it a legitimate counterpick if you know what you are doing). Large flat stages like FD and PS2 are likewise terrible, since Link can easily projectile camp you and give you nowhere to run.
General Strategy
While not unwinnable, this is one of Zelda’s most difficult matchups, owing to Zelda’s vulnerability to disjoints, slow movement, and tall frame. With access to three excellent projectiles in his boomerang, bombs, and arrows, Link can out-camp you, so trying to hang back and force approaches out of him is a losing proposition. Unfortunately, you will need to be the aggressor in this matchup, as Link will try to play keep away and pelt you with projectiles until he can move in for the kill.
LC Nayru is one of your best approach options against Link; it buffers your approach against his projectiles and allows you to laglessly pursue him upon landing. Your Lightning Kicks can likewise act as valuable approach tools. Din’s on or near the ground can halt his movement, provide a temporary projectile shield, and pave the way for relatively safe teleport approaches. Din’s in the air is not as effective because Link can quickly clank it with his sword (usually jab) or Nair, but if you can manually detonate it just before he hits the Din, you can sometimes start something off of the explosion. Using the return hitbox may prove useful in some instances. Your wavedash OoS is invaluable in the neutral game, as it allows you to block projectiles while continuing to brute force your way forward.
Link’s melee range is quite long, and he can stuff many of your approaches with proper spacing, but some of his moves are also quite slow, so look for windows to punish. OoS options (Kicks, shield grabs, wavedash OoS, etc.) will help you weave past his sword strikes. His aerials are unsafe on shield if he does not space correctly, so try to shield grab him out of his aerials. This matchup becomes easier once you can get up close and personal. Link is a good combo weight for Zelda, so you can wreck him pretty hard with your bread and butter combos. Start with Ftilt, Usmash, or a grab; at low percents, you should be able to easily chain Usmashes and Utilts on him, finishing with a Kick, Uair (which beats his Dair), or Nair. A well-placed Din or a dash attack can be used to extend combos.
Edgeguarding Link is not always straightforward because Spin Attack is tricky to bypass horizontally and his aerial movement options are greatly diversified by his ability to AGT his bombs, but if you’re accurate and quick, you can plop a Din on his head (make sure it doesn’t get clanked) and follow up out of the hitstun. You can also try to Dair him through his Spin Attack if you’re feeling ballsy. If Link tethers, Telesnap to the ledge and force him to up-B or ledge hop. In either case, wavelanding onto the stage and punishing with a dash attack, pivot Fsmash, Dsmash or Kick can be an excellent option. If Link fails to sweetspot the ledge, Fsmashes, Dsmashes, or Kicks can quickly end his stocks.
Things to Watch For
Grab range – His grab may go farther than you expect, so be prepared to roll/spotdodge at a moment’s notice, especially when engaging him OoS. His grab is also quite laggy, so you can usually get a good punish off of a whiffed grab.
Dthrow – At low percents, he can Dthrow -> jab -> regrab you; upward SDI on the jab can help you escape (credits to noobftw). If you fail to SDI, it is likely that he will be able to finish with Utilt or Usmash. At high percents, make sure you DI it behind him to avoid his nastier follow-ups. Incorrect DI on a Dthrow will lead into a lethal Dair or Fair.
Zair – properly spaced Zairs can stuff your Nayru/Kick approaches and pop you up into Uair follow-ups.
Juggles – Link’s Utilt, Uair, Usmash, and bombs can juggle you very easily. Don’t try to challenge his upward strikes; get to the ground as quickly as you can.
Gimps – Link is one of the few characters who can effectively gimp Zelda’s recovery. ALWAYS SWEETSPOT THE LEDGE, TELEBURN HIM (and for the love of all that is holy, don’t miss) OR AVOID HIM ENTIRELY when recovering or you WILL eat a Spin Attack, which will send you offstage at a nasty semi-spike angle. If he Spin Attacks while you are on the ledge, wait patiently for the move to end, then punish with a ledge hop aerial or Nayru. His arrows are also a huge threat; he can easily nail you out of the startup of Farore’s. They charge quickly, and a fully charged shot can kill you at around 60% if you are offstage. Make sure you save your jump and utilize fast falls to avoid his arrows.
2
Good Stages
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams
Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 2
Final Destination
Yoshi’s Island
Yoshi’s Story* (not as unfavorable)
Link can KO you off the top rather easily, and he does not die quickly due to his weight, so avoid stages with small top and large side blastzones. Norfair is one of your worst stages in this matchup because its layout lets him camp the platforms relatively noncommittally (although you can pester him with Din’s) and pelt you with his boomerang and Z-dropped bombs until you are at kill percent. Its blastzones also do you no favors with regard to kills or survivability. Stages with sloped sides allow for easier Spin Attack gimps, which is a good reason to avoid both Yoshi stages *(the small side blastzones of YS do have the potential to work in your favor, possibly making it a legitimate counterpick if you know what you are doing). Large flat stages like FD and PS2 are likewise terrible, since Link can easily projectile camp you and give you nowhere to run.
General Strategy
While not unwinnable, this is one of Zelda’s most difficult matchups, owing to Zelda’s vulnerability to disjoints, slow movement, and tall frame. With access to three excellent projectiles in his boomerang, bombs, and arrows, Link can out-camp you, so trying to hang back and force approaches out of him is a losing proposition. Unfortunately, you will need to be the aggressor in this matchup, as Link will try to play keep away and pelt you with projectiles until he can move in for the kill.
LC Nayru is one of your best approach options against Link; it buffers your approach against his projectiles and allows you to laglessly pursue him upon landing. Your Lightning Kicks can likewise act as valuable approach tools. Din’s on or near the ground can halt his movement, provide a temporary projectile shield, and pave the way for relatively safe teleport approaches. Din’s in the air is not as effective because Link can quickly clank it with his sword (usually jab) or Nair, but if you can manually detonate it just before he hits the Din, you can sometimes start something off of the explosion. Using the return hitbox may prove useful in some instances. Your wavedash OoS is invaluable in the neutral game, as it allows you to block projectiles while continuing to brute force your way forward.
Link’s melee range is quite long, and he can stuff many of your approaches with proper spacing, but some of his moves are also quite slow, so look for windows to punish. OoS options (Kicks, shield grabs, wavedash OoS, etc.) will help you weave past his sword strikes. His aerials are unsafe on shield if he does not space correctly, so try to shield grab him out of his aerials. This matchup becomes easier once you can get up close and personal. Link is a good combo weight for Zelda, so you can wreck him pretty hard with your bread and butter combos. Start with Ftilt, Usmash, or a grab; at low percents, you should be able to easily chain Usmashes and Utilts on him, finishing with a Kick, Uair (which beats his Dair), or Nair. A well-placed Din or a dash attack can be used to extend combos.
Edgeguarding Link is not always straightforward because Spin Attack is tricky to bypass horizontally and his aerial movement options are greatly diversified by his ability to AGT his bombs, but if you’re accurate and quick, you can plop a Din on his head (make sure it doesn’t get clanked) and follow up out of the hitstun. You can also try to Dair him through his Spin Attack if you’re feeling ballsy. If Link tethers, Telesnap to the ledge and force him to up-B or ledge hop. In either case, wavelanding onto the stage and punishing with a dash attack, pivot Fsmash, Dsmash or Kick can be an excellent option. If Link fails to sweetspot the ledge, Fsmashes, Dsmashes, or Kicks can quickly end his stocks.
Things to Watch For
Grab range – His grab may go farther than you expect, so be prepared to roll/spotdodge at a moment’s notice, especially when engaging him OoS. His grab is also quite laggy, so you can usually get a good punish off of a whiffed grab.
Dthrow – At low percents, he can Dthrow -> jab -> regrab you; upward SDI on the jab can help you escape (credits to noobftw). If you fail to SDI, it is likely that he will be able to finish with Utilt or Usmash. At high percents, make sure you DI it behind him to avoid his nastier follow-ups. Incorrect DI on a Dthrow will lead into a lethal Dair or Fair.
Zair – properly spaced Zairs can stuff your Nayru/Kick approaches and pop you up into Uair follow-ups.
Juggles – Link’s Utilt, Uair, Usmash, and bombs can juggle you very easily. Don’t try to challenge his upward strikes; get to the ground as quickly as you can.
Gimps – Link is one of the few characters who can effectively gimp Zelda’s recovery. ALWAYS SWEETSPOT THE LEDGE, TELEBURN HIM (and for the love of all that is holy, don’t miss) OR AVOID HIM ENTIRELY when recovering or you WILL eat a Spin Attack, which will send you offstage at a nasty semi-spike angle. If he Spin Attacks while you are on the ledge, wait patiently for the move to end, then punish with a ledge hop aerial or Nayru. His arrows are also a huge threat; he can easily nail you out of the startup of Farore’s. They charge quickly, and a fully charged shot can kill you at around 60% if you are offstage. Make sure you save your jump and utilize fast falls to avoid his arrows.
Lucario
Favorability: 3.5
Good/Bad Stages: In this matchup, neither character really has a hard counterpick against the other. Both Zelda and Lucario kill mostly off the sides, but have a couple of good situational ways to kill off the top as well. (Lucario’s kill options off the top aren’t as strong as Zelda’s though, so this kind of balances out the fact that Zelda is floatier than him.) They both have long recoveries so they can live for ages on large stages if their DI is good. The only stage that may slightly favor Lucario is Yoshi’s Island Brawl since the middle platform is less disruptive to his combos than to Zelda’s. Zelda may benefit slightly from stages with close horizontal blast zones since her kills off the side are a bit stronger than Lucario’s.
General Strategy:
Lucario has a rather poor neutral game (assuming he has no aura charges). If he has no charges, he is nearly always forced to initiate his assaults with dash dances into dash attacks. Get a feel for the range of his dash attack, then just wait for him to whiff. and punish. At mid-range, he may try baiting out Naryu’s with Aura Spheres. Either approach with land-canceled Naryu’s or simply walk in the opposite direction if you have enough room. Shielding is often a poor choice because while you’re still in shieldstun, Lucario can start a combo with his command grab. If he does have an aura charge, things get a bit more problemtic; he can cancel his down B (Double Team) into uptilt to start combos. The invincibility from Double Team carries over into the attack he cancels into, so your can’t challenge these approaches; either run out of range or shield. Your overall goal in this matchup is to avoid being hit for as long as possible. Each hit (even it’s just on your shield) helps Lucario gain aura. He gets a full charge for each 50% of damage he deals. Him having aura charges is never good for you; it improves his neutral game, makes his recoveries extremely troublesome to edgeguard, and can result in nasty zero-to-deaths on you. As a floaty, you can escape the majority of Lucario’s combos much earlier than other cast members by DI-ing either up and in or up and away once you get caught. He should never be able to combo into grounded kills on you if you DI up and away. Luckily, Lucario is combo food for Zelda. You’ve got three main opportunities to start your assault on him: 1) when he whiffs a dash attack; 2) when he recovers onto the stage and is in landing lag; 3) when he uses Double Team without having aura (there’s a small window of endlag). Initiate your combos with jab, up throw/, forward tilt, or upsmash. Beware he has a good crouch cancel; if he’s crouching while you upsmash it won’t pull him up and he can punish you for it. (If your upsmash connects, double upsmash -> nair-> kick is difficult for him to avoid at low percentages.) You can also wall him out with Bairs if he’s attempting to find his way in with dash dance-> dash attack. Most of his moves are actually pretty weak against even your subpar crouch cancel, so you can sometimes even get mileage out of CC downtilt -> grab. Aside from Zelda’s pseudo-immunity to a lot of combos, the main reason this matchup favors her is her ability to keep out active hitboxes. Din’s, Naryu’s Love, Utilt, and Upsmash all limit the mobility he gets out of Double Team significantly since they outlast it. All these moves also beat his recovery, Extremespeed, so you get pretty easy edgeguards when he has no aura. His recovery has a ton of startup, so if you’re feeling ballsy and want to end things early jump out and intercept with a kick. When he has a charge and is above the stage, watch out; he can cancel into an invincible n-air to get back. From below, his options are quite limited; just be aware that aura charges allow him to air dodge onto stage, so if you’re hogging the ledge, you should probably stay put. For non-edgeguard kills, rely mainly on lightning kicks, forward smash reads, and uptilts. At 70%, upthrow to upair is quite hard for him to escape and kills if the upair sweetspots. He’ll most likely have to go for raw kills, as DIing up and away makes it very hard for him to combo into kills on you.
Things to look out for:
Dtilt- nair: DI away from the downtilt
Down-B (cancel)->Dsmash: if he double teams toward you with a charge and you’re near kill percent, it’s usually wise to just sit in shield.
Charged command grab: this can kill at around 90% on most stages. The grab box is pretty large and has a decent amount of armor, so beware
Good/Bad Stages: In this matchup, neither character really has a hard counterpick against the other. Both Zelda and Lucario kill mostly off the sides, but have a couple of good situational ways to kill off the top as well. (Lucario’s kill options off the top aren’t as strong as Zelda’s though, so this kind of balances out the fact that Zelda is floatier than him.) They both have long recoveries so they can live for ages on large stages if their DI is good. The only stage that may slightly favor Lucario is Yoshi’s Island Brawl since the middle platform is less disruptive to his combos than to Zelda’s. Zelda may benefit slightly from stages with close horizontal blast zones since her kills off the side are a bit stronger than Lucario’s.
General Strategy:
Lucario has a rather poor neutral game (assuming he has no aura charges). If he has no charges, he is nearly always forced to initiate his assaults with dash dances into dash attacks. Get a feel for the range of his dash attack, then just wait for him to whiff. and punish. At mid-range, he may try baiting out Naryu’s with Aura Spheres. Either approach with land-canceled Naryu’s or simply walk in the opposite direction if you have enough room. Shielding is often a poor choice because while you’re still in shieldstun, Lucario can start a combo with his command grab. If he does have an aura charge, things get a bit more problemtic; he can cancel his down B (Double Team) into uptilt to start combos. The invincibility from Double Team carries over into the attack he cancels into, so your can’t challenge these approaches; either run out of range or shield. Your overall goal in this matchup is to avoid being hit for as long as possible. Each hit (even it’s just on your shield) helps Lucario gain aura. He gets a full charge for each 50% of damage he deals. Him having aura charges is never good for you; it improves his neutral game, makes his recoveries extremely troublesome to edgeguard, and can result in nasty zero-to-deaths on you. As a floaty, you can escape the majority of Lucario’s combos much earlier than other cast members by DI-ing either up and in or up and away once you get caught. He should never be able to combo into grounded kills on you if you DI up and away. Luckily, Lucario is combo food for Zelda. You’ve got three main opportunities to start your assault on him: 1) when he whiffs a dash attack; 2) when he recovers onto the stage and is in landing lag; 3) when he uses Double Team without having aura (there’s a small window of endlag). Initiate your combos with jab, up throw/, forward tilt, or upsmash. Beware he has a good crouch cancel; if he’s crouching while you upsmash it won’t pull him up and he can punish you for it. (If your upsmash connects, double upsmash -> nair-> kick is difficult for him to avoid at low percentages.) You can also wall him out with Bairs if he’s attempting to find his way in with dash dance-> dash attack. Most of his moves are actually pretty weak against even your subpar crouch cancel, so you can sometimes even get mileage out of CC downtilt -> grab. Aside from Zelda’s pseudo-immunity to a lot of combos, the main reason this matchup favors her is her ability to keep out active hitboxes. Din’s, Naryu’s Love, Utilt, and Upsmash all limit the mobility he gets out of Double Team significantly since they outlast it. All these moves also beat his recovery, Extremespeed, so you get pretty easy edgeguards when he has no aura. His recovery has a ton of startup, so if you’re feeling ballsy and want to end things early jump out and intercept with a kick. When he has a charge and is above the stage, watch out; he can cancel into an invincible n-air to get back. From below, his options are quite limited; just be aware that aura charges allow him to air dodge onto stage, so if you’re hogging the ledge, you should probably stay put. For non-edgeguard kills, rely mainly on lightning kicks, forward smash reads, and uptilts. At 70%, upthrow to upair is quite hard for him to escape and kills if the upair sweetspots. He’ll most likely have to go for raw kills, as DIing up and away makes it very hard for him to combo into kills on you.
Things to look out for:
Dtilt- nair: DI away from the downtilt
Down-B (cancel)->Dsmash: if he double teams toward you with a charge and you’re near kill percent, it’s usually wise to just sit in shield.
Charged command grab: this can kill at around 90% on most stages. The grab box is pretty large and has a decent amount of armor, so beware
Lucas
Neutral
As of 3.5, Lucas' Fair which used to have a disjoint somewhat equivalent to Ness' Fair is now a stubby kick and nothing to worry about. Most approaches can be stuffed by Naryu's Love, and is hard for Lucas to punish despite his relatively high speed. If they go to punish one Naryu and aren't properly positioned to do so, most times it's ok to throw out another one right after because Lucas will either attempt to punish with a DJC PKF or dash in -> Fair / grab. Lucas needs a decent amount of space to work with in neutral, which is restricted by DF's. At the correct height, Lucas will be forced on the ground or risk being hit while attempting to DJC PKF. Naryu will reflect PKF if close enough. Fsmash covers a decent space in front of Zelda and is near impossible to punish due to the massive disjoint and low end lag. Zelda works well at baiting Lucas to approach then punishing with anti-air Uair, Utilt, Usmash, Fair/Bair especially and sometimes Naryu's. If he approaches from the ground, Fsmash, Nayru's, Ftilt, and even Fair/Bair can stop Lucas dead in their tracks.
Approaching isn't something Zelda has to worry with. Most Lucas players can be frightened easily. You will know how sp00ked they get by the amount of times they are full hopping or in general going way above you. You will feel the frustration with properly placed Din's Fires when they get stuck trying to approach. Be wary of the magnet absorbing these; however, it's only a measly 7-10% recovered, so you can get a free punish when they try to absorb the DF.
Punish / Combos
Lucas
Lucas isn't much of a threat to Zelda comparable to his MU's vs most of the cast. He can secure at most 4-5 hits consecutively at low % and maybe 1-2 hits after 60%. The only major thing to avoid is Dair -> Upsmash and Upthrow which begins killing at 107 on PS2, 111 on Battlefield etc.
For a full list of kill %'s check out the Compendium for Up Throw Kill % in my Lucas guide here:
http://smashboards.com/guides/lightning-fast-a-project-m-lucas-guide.270/
First 2 hits of Dair can be SDI'd horizontally when on the ground, and SDI'd Up when in the air (be sure to tech the 3rd hit). Be sure to SDI horizontally away from momentum of Lucas. eg. If they are facing / running to the right when going to Dair, SDI to the left. Aside from Dair -> Upsmash and Upthrow, all his other moves won't begin killing until later %'s past 110-125.
Landing isn't terribly hard for Zelda despite Lucas being able to cover ground quickly and juggle with Uair. The disjoint is fairly tiny so you can actually challenge it with Dair or Tele to the ground safely. Uair comes out frame 4 so you still have to be careful of its speed and hitbox size.
Zelda
Zelda's combos also go about 2-5 hits max, but are more deadly and can lead to finishers way easier than Lucas. Her Upsmash combos into itself a few times at 0-10%, Uair can juggle fairly well, Nair leads into a few decent followups, and Utilt / Dash attack can lead into Fair/Bair or a Uair depending on their % and DI.
All her throws are easy to react to, so Dthrow doesn't do much, but Bthrow can catch poor DI and kill between 85-100%, 115-130% if with perfect DI on most stages. Fthrow will lead into Fair with bad DI, send Lucas offstage to get gimped, or into a Din's Fire. Upthrow works well at low % to combo into an Upsmash if they don't double jump, or a Nair / Fair if they DI away / attempt to double jump. I personally always hold facing away from Zelda to DI the Fthrow, then react accordingly to the other 3 throws given their higher startup.
Din's Fire will be the best thing to set up most combo starters and can catch retreating Lucas'
She can easily dodge out of full PKF range and the shorter range can be power shielded or spaced back to not get hit.
General Strategy
Set up the stage with Din's Fire at the level of Lucas' head, or at a far away distance to get the max size. Be sure not to get too close when throwing out Din's so that Lucas can't punish the end lag. Bait approaches from Lucas and punish anything that is sloppy or mis-spaced. Mitigate PKF and force Lucas to approach in a different fashion. Combo hard and secure kills whenever possible. It's easy to secure leads and throw out Fair/Bair to kill. Don't use too much Upsmash unless it's an anti-air or from a guarantee; Fsmash is better IMO. Dtilt can get some jank setups. For grabs, Backthrow is best to get Lucas off stage, Upthrow for combos, and only use Fthrow on mixups. Dthrow can be used for tech chases or to catch bad DI. Zelda has an answer to everything Lucas does. Don't get baited: you should be the one who controls the tempo of every game and should always have stage control, forcing Lucas to approach.
As of 3.5, Lucas' Fair which used to have a disjoint somewhat equivalent to Ness' Fair is now a stubby kick and nothing to worry about. Most approaches can be stuffed by Naryu's Love, and is hard for Lucas to punish despite his relatively high speed. If they go to punish one Naryu and aren't properly positioned to do so, most times it's ok to throw out another one right after because Lucas will either attempt to punish with a DJC PKF or dash in -> Fair / grab. Lucas needs a decent amount of space to work with in neutral, which is restricted by DF's. At the correct height, Lucas will be forced on the ground or risk being hit while attempting to DJC PKF. Naryu will reflect PKF if close enough. Fsmash covers a decent space in front of Zelda and is near impossible to punish due to the massive disjoint and low end lag. Zelda works well at baiting Lucas to approach then punishing with anti-air Uair, Utilt, Usmash, Fair/Bair especially and sometimes Naryu's. If he approaches from the ground, Fsmash, Nayru's, Ftilt, and even Fair/Bair can stop Lucas dead in their tracks.
Approaching isn't something Zelda has to worry with. Most Lucas players can be frightened easily. You will know how sp00ked they get by the amount of times they are full hopping or in general going way above you. You will feel the frustration with properly placed Din's Fires when they get stuck trying to approach. Be wary of the magnet absorbing these; however, it's only a measly 7-10% recovered, so you can get a free punish when they try to absorb the DF.
Punish / Combos
Lucas
Lucas isn't much of a threat to Zelda comparable to his MU's vs most of the cast. He can secure at most 4-5 hits consecutively at low % and maybe 1-2 hits after 60%. The only major thing to avoid is Dair -> Upsmash and Upthrow which begins killing at 107 on PS2, 111 on Battlefield etc.
For a full list of kill %'s check out the Compendium for Up Throw Kill % in my Lucas guide here:
http://smashboards.com/guides/lightning-fast-a-project-m-lucas-guide.270/
First 2 hits of Dair can be SDI'd horizontally when on the ground, and SDI'd Up when in the air (be sure to tech the 3rd hit). Be sure to SDI horizontally away from momentum of Lucas. eg. If they are facing / running to the right when going to Dair, SDI to the left. Aside from Dair -> Upsmash and Upthrow, all his other moves won't begin killing until later %'s past 110-125.
Landing isn't terribly hard for Zelda despite Lucas being able to cover ground quickly and juggle with Uair. The disjoint is fairly tiny so you can actually challenge it with Dair or Tele to the ground safely. Uair comes out frame 4 so you still have to be careful of its speed and hitbox size.
Zelda
Zelda's combos also go about 2-5 hits max, but are more deadly and can lead to finishers way easier than Lucas. Her Upsmash combos into itself a few times at 0-10%, Uair can juggle fairly well, Nair leads into a few decent followups, and Utilt / Dash attack can lead into Fair/Bair or a Uair depending on their % and DI.
All her throws are easy to react to, so Dthrow doesn't do much, but Bthrow can catch poor DI and kill between 85-100%, 115-130% if with perfect DI on most stages. Fthrow will lead into Fair with bad DI, send Lucas offstage to get gimped, or into a Din's Fire. Upthrow works well at low % to combo into an Upsmash if they don't double jump, or a Nair / Fair if they DI away / attempt to double jump. I personally always hold facing away from Zelda to DI the Fthrow, then react accordingly to the other 3 throws given their higher startup.
Din's Fire will be the best thing to set up most combo starters and can catch retreating Lucas'
She can easily dodge out of full PKF range and the shorter range can be power shielded or spaced back to not get hit.
General Strategy
Set up the stage with Din's Fire at the level of Lucas' head, or at a far away distance to get the max size. Be sure not to get too close when throwing out Din's so that Lucas can't punish the end lag. Bait approaches from Lucas and punish anything that is sloppy or mis-spaced. Mitigate PKF and force Lucas to approach in a different fashion. Combo hard and secure kills whenever possible. It's easy to secure leads and throw out Fair/Bair to kill. Don't use too much Upsmash unless it's an anti-air or from a guarantee; Fsmash is better IMO. Dtilt can get some jank setups. For grabs, Backthrow is best to get Lucas off stage, Upthrow for combos, and only use Fthrow on mixups. Dthrow can be used for tech chases or to catch bad DI. Zelda has an answer to everything Lucas does. Don't get baited: you should be the one who controls the tempo of every game and should always have stage control, forcing Lucas to approach.
Luigi
Mario
Favorability
2.25
Good Stages
Green Hill Zone
Battlefield
Fountain of Dreams
Final Destination
Norfair
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Pokémon Stadium 2
WarioWare
Distant Planet
General Strategy
Powershield the fireballs. LC Nayru's is terrible unless it's on hit. Mario can SH B-air OOS, grab OOS, and worse against LC Nayru's, so use it to bait approaches, retreat, and reflect fireballs at mid range or farther. Fireballs render dash dancing and wavedashing less effective, so jump, telecancel, and play momentum tricks with Nayru's to approach. Mario is more comboable than Zelda, but has good escape options, so become familiar with what followups you have which percents when following Mario into the air. Ideally, you could motivate Mario into approaching you then punishing mistakes with U-tilt and kicks.
Things to look out for
1. D-throw -> F-air: F-air kills Zelda off the top early and doesn't need setup. I'm not sure if the optimal DI for D-throw will prevent Mario from F-airing Zelda, but if possible just avoid situations that put you in positions to get F-aired and recognizes your opponents tendencies, so you can predict when they'll use it.
2. U-air juggles
3. Cape: The cape can end anything that isn't a true combo and punish kicks and Farore's that aren't sweetspotted. The cape can also lead into followup attacks. All in all, it can be more irritating than the fireballs since there is no benefit to baiting it out, and you should just avoid the move.
4. F-smash: This attack is a quick and powerful punish, so space properly.
5. Up-B: Similarly to Squirtle, this attack's hitboxes make it difficult to punish if you stand near the ledge. Additionally, the move has invincibility frames on startup.
6. His recovery: Mario can wall jump, rise with down-B, and use up-B along with his midair jump to recover from far out or below the stage. The down-B is probably your best opportunity to punish his recovery if you're in position.
7. B-air: He can carry off stage with this attack and punish LC Nayru's OOS with this attack. It has decent power.
Videos
Gallo v. Zhime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN8L6IgqZr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQEGPAtEbQ
2.25
Good Stages
Green Hill Zone
Battlefield
Fountain of Dreams
Final Destination
Norfair
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Pokémon Stadium 2
WarioWare
Distant Planet
General Strategy
Powershield the fireballs. LC Nayru's is terrible unless it's on hit. Mario can SH B-air OOS, grab OOS, and worse against LC Nayru's, so use it to bait approaches, retreat, and reflect fireballs at mid range or farther. Fireballs render dash dancing and wavedashing less effective, so jump, telecancel, and play momentum tricks with Nayru's to approach. Mario is more comboable than Zelda, but has good escape options, so become familiar with what followups you have which percents when following Mario into the air. Ideally, you could motivate Mario into approaching you then punishing mistakes with U-tilt and kicks.
Things to look out for
1. D-throw -> F-air: F-air kills Zelda off the top early and doesn't need setup. I'm not sure if the optimal DI for D-throw will prevent Mario from F-airing Zelda, but if possible just avoid situations that put you in positions to get F-aired and recognizes your opponents tendencies, so you can predict when they'll use it.
2. U-air juggles
3. Cape: The cape can end anything that isn't a true combo and punish kicks and Farore's that aren't sweetspotted. The cape can also lead into followup attacks. All in all, it can be more irritating than the fireballs since there is no benefit to baiting it out, and you should just avoid the move.
4. F-smash: This attack is a quick and powerful punish, so space properly.
5. Up-B: Similarly to Squirtle, this attack's hitboxes make it difficult to punish if you stand near the ledge. Additionally, the move has invincibility frames on startup.
6. His recovery: Mario can wall jump, rise with down-B, and use up-B along with his midair jump to recover from far out or below the stage. The down-B is probably your best opportunity to punish his recovery if you're in position.
7. B-air: He can carry off stage with this attack and punish LC Nayru's OOS with this attack. It has decent power.
Videos
Gallo v. Zhime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN8L6IgqZr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQEGPAtEbQ
Marth
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Favorability
2
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Yoshi's Island?
Norfair?
Bad Stages
With the possible exception of Distant Planet, all other stages on the bottom 2 rows do not favor Zelda in this matchup for reasons listed below.
1. Mewtwo can carry you off the side with b-air for the kill.
2. Mewtwo's U-throw negates any advantages Zelda may have on the stage.
3. Mewtwo's extended hover combos are harder to DI or tech due to large open spaces and few platforms.
General Strategy
The matchup banks on your ability to punish OOS, read his teleports, and safely approach. Mewtwo's smashes, dash attack, and a few of his aerials are high committal, and he often has many options for teleporting down to the stage or platforms when available. Just like any other matchup, punish unsafe attacks on shield with lightning kicks and U-smash. If you can get a read on where he's teleporting, U-tilt is a great option to deter him from teleporting in for the attack. U-tilt also kills Mewtwo at higher percents, so a smart Mewtwo would become less aggressive to force Zelda on the offensive. B-reversed Nayru's are okay to use while approaching, but not to actually attack unless they're after a lightning kick. I have no experience with this matchup in 3.5 or 3.6 Beta, but I'd imagine that telecancelling should be used for defense and the neutral rather than offense unless you're B-reversing teleport behind Mewtwo, which still may be too risky. Din's is decent in the matchup for combos, but serves no function that's special to this matchup.
Things to watch out for
1. Uthrow and F-air will be Mewtwo's primary methods of killing Zelda. Both moves kill off the top, which are reasons why you should be wary of stages where he can easily carry Zelda to the top or get an early U-throw kill.
2. Like Zelda, some of his more powerful attacks require a hard read to use. Be wary of D-smash and F-smash if he's edgeguarding from the stage. Watch out for b-air chains and d-air if he manages to get you near the ledge aerially.
Remember that the matchup is relatively simple and is made difficult due to his disjoint, ability to KO Zelda off-the-top easily, and ability to combo Zelda thanks to hover. Mewtwo is a little less floaty than Zelda and heavier too with a large body, so he's a little easier to combo than Zelda. All in all, this isn't a matchup Zelda should fret over too much. She has the tools to compete in this matchup decently.
Videos
Frozen v. Zhime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQxv0joZis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=241gfeE9GOU
2
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Yoshi's Island?
Norfair?
Bad Stages
With the possible exception of Distant Planet, all other stages on the bottom 2 rows do not favor Zelda in this matchup for reasons listed below.
1. Mewtwo can carry you off the side with b-air for the kill.
2. Mewtwo's U-throw negates any advantages Zelda may have on the stage.
3. Mewtwo's extended hover combos are harder to DI or tech due to large open spaces and few platforms.
General Strategy
The matchup banks on your ability to punish OOS, read his teleports, and safely approach. Mewtwo's smashes, dash attack, and a few of his aerials are high committal, and he often has many options for teleporting down to the stage or platforms when available. Just like any other matchup, punish unsafe attacks on shield with lightning kicks and U-smash. If you can get a read on where he's teleporting, U-tilt is a great option to deter him from teleporting in for the attack. U-tilt also kills Mewtwo at higher percents, so a smart Mewtwo would become less aggressive to force Zelda on the offensive. B-reversed Nayru's are okay to use while approaching, but not to actually attack unless they're after a lightning kick. I have no experience with this matchup in 3.5 or 3.6 Beta, but I'd imagine that telecancelling should be used for defense and the neutral rather than offense unless you're B-reversing teleport behind Mewtwo, which still may be too risky. Din's is decent in the matchup for combos, but serves no function that's special to this matchup.
Things to watch out for
1. Uthrow and F-air will be Mewtwo's primary methods of killing Zelda. Both moves kill off the top, which are reasons why you should be wary of stages where he can easily carry Zelda to the top or get an early U-throw kill.
2. Like Zelda, some of his more powerful attacks require a hard read to use. Be wary of D-smash and F-smash if he's edgeguarding from the stage. Watch out for b-air chains and d-air if he manages to get you near the ledge aerially.
Remember that the matchup is relatively simple and is made difficult due to his disjoint, ability to KO Zelda off-the-top easily, and ability to combo Zelda thanks to hover. Mewtwo is a little less floaty than Zelda and heavier too with a large body, so he's a little easier to combo than Zelda. All in all, this isn't a matchup Zelda should fret over too much. She has the tools to compete in this matchup decently.
Videos
Frozen v. Zhime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQxv0joZis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=241gfeE9GOU
Ness
Favorability
3
Good Stages
Smashville
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Castle Siege
Norfair
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone
WarioWare
Distant Planet
General Strategy
IIRC, @@Boiko has claimed that Ness loses to shields. He lives in Zhime's region and has experienced the matchup as evidenced by the video. Anyways, shield PK Fire and learn to SDI the attack. PK Fire is one of his numerous setups into attacks. Zelda can combo Ness harder than he can combo Zelda, but he has the tools to juggle her along with several kill options. Try to avoid being grabbed at high percents since B-throw is a kill throw. Learn to DI D-throw to avoid combos. Don't try trading D-air with his U-air. U-air can juggle and kills at later percents. SDI values for F-air aren't listed in his frame data thread, so you'll have to figure out how to avoid followups on that move.
Things to look out for
1. PK Flash: Ness will primarily use this in edgeguarding attempts to punish Farore's and force Zelda into double jumping or airdodging.
2. B-air: This is one of Ness's kill options. While it is slow on startup, it is still an option that Zelda must respect.
3. Kill potential: Ness has sweetspotted F-smash, sweetspotted B-air, B-throw, U-air at higher percents, D-air, and PK Flash for edgeguarding. Essentially, he's got good horizontal kill options and respectable vertical kill options, and you must be aware of the situations in which each would be optimal for Ness in order to avoid losing a stock.
4. N-air: The move is frame 4 and punishes overextension of combos.
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSrl6tukDM
3
Good Stages
Smashville
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Castle Siege
Norfair
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone
WarioWare
Distant Planet
General Strategy
IIRC, @@Boiko has claimed that Ness loses to shields. He lives in Zhime's region and has experienced the matchup as evidenced by the video. Anyways, shield PK Fire and learn to SDI the attack. PK Fire is one of his numerous setups into attacks. Zelda can combo Ness harder than he can combo Zelda, but he has the tools to juggle her along with several kill options. Try to avoid being grabbed at high percents since B-throw is a kill throw. Learn to DI D-throw to avoid combos. Don't try trading D-air with his U-air. U-air can juggle and kills at later percents. SDI values for F-air aren't listed in his frame data thread, so you'll have to figure out how to avoid followups on that move.
Things to look out for
1. PK Flash: Ness will primarily use this in edgeguarding attempts to punish Farore's and force Zelda into double jumping or airdodging.
2. B-air: This is one of Ness's kill options. While it is slow on startup, it is still an option that Zelda must respect.
3. Kill potential: Ness has sweetspotted F-smash, sweetspotted B-air, B-throw, U-air at higher percents, D-air, and PK Flash for edgeguarding. Essentially, he's got good horizontal kill options and respectable vertical kill options, and you must be aware of the situations in which each would be optimal for Ness in order to avoid losing a stock.
4. N-air: The move is frame 4 and punishes overextension of combos.
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSrl6tukDM
Olimar
Peach
Favorability: 3
Good stages: Warioware, Yoshi's Story- You can kill her early in both of these places with a good up air or kick, even fsmash and dsmash
Bad Stages: Dreamland: She won't die till later and can edgeguard like a god, Battlefield: Her platform game is much better than Zelda's and her utilt reaches through the platforms, so she can hit you with it.
General Strats:
Dins is your friend in this MU. Put it at a height just above Zelda in order to threaten Peach's optimal floating space. Peach will want to float at that height in order to punish nayru's with a FC aerial so the main things you'll be doing are utilt if you can read your opponent well, since her utilt outranges most, if not all (correct me if i'm wrong pls) of peach's aerials because of arm intangibility. We'll also be spacing kicks like crazy since they're fast aerials that outrange peach's. Dins is a good edgeguard against her, but if you're feeling fancy, you can use the ribbon hit of farore's to do the job (not recommended tbh). You're both floaty characters, but she can combo you somewhat better, so playing defensive is very important. Punish bad landings, threaten her space with dins, and space kicks is really what this MU is about.
What to look out for:
Dthrow > Usmash at low percentages. You'll want to DI up and away from Peach to try and avoid it, otherwise DI down so you don't get hit with the tip of her hand.
Peach will try to bait out a nayru's with constant turnip throws and generally keeping the pressure up. If you space one wrong, you'll most likely get punished for it
Peach dsmash oos is 11 frames, so don't use any of your super punishable moves on shield. She can Shield DI towards you so she can punish you with it afterwards.
"I think it would be good to make some mention of how well and how safely Peach can pressure Zelda's shield. FC Nairs and Fairs can deal enough shield damage for Peach's Dsmash to shield poke (dealing around 20% damage in the process), and FC aerials only have 4 frames of landing lag, so Zelda does not have enough time to do anything except buffer a roll before the Dsmash comes out. Peach can also FC an aerial on your shield into jab or grab." from @@Vitriform
I'd like to thank @@otheusrex, @@Prynne, @@Kaeldiar and @@Vitriform for helping me learn this MU from the peach perspective :D
Good stages: Warioware, Yoshi's Story- You can kill her early in both of these places with a good up air or kick, even fsmash and dsmash
Bad Stages: Dreamland: She won't die till later and can edgeguard like a god, Battlefield: Her platform game is much better than Zelda's and her utilt reaches through the platforms, so she can hit you with it.
General Strats:
Dins is your friend in this MU. Put it at a height just above Zelda in order to threaten Peach's optimal floating space. Peach will want to float at that height in order to punish nayru's with a FC aerial so the main things you'll be doing are utilt if you can read your opponent well, since her utilt outranges most, if not all (correct me if i'm wrong pls) of peach's aerials because of arm intangibility. We'll also be spacing kicks like crazy since they're fast aerials that outrange peach's. Dins is a good edgeguard against her, but if you're feeling fancy, you can use the ribbon hit of farore's to do the job (not recommended tbh). You're both floaty characters, but she can combo you somewhat better, so playing defensive is very important. Punish bad landings, threaten her space with dins, and space kicks is really what this MU is about.
What to look out for:
Dthrow > Usmash at low percentages. You'll want to DI up and away from Peach to try and avoid it, otherwise DI down so you don't get hit with the tip of her hand.
Peach will try to bait out a nayru's with constant turnip throws and generally keeping the pressure up. If you space one wrong, you'll most likely get punished for it
Peach dsmash oos is 11 frames, so don't use any of your super punishable moves on shield. She can Shield DI towards you so she can punish you with it afterwards.
"I think it would be good to make some mention of how well and how safely Peach can pressure Zelda's shield. FC Nairs and Fairs can deal enough shield damage for Peach's Dsmash to shield poke (dealing around 20% damage in the process), and FC aerials only have 4 frames of landing lag, so Zelda does not have enough time to do anything except buffer a roll before the Dsmash comes out. Peach can also FC an aerial on your shield into jab or grab." from @@Vitriform
I'd like to thank @@otheusrex, @@Prynne, @@Kaeldiar and @@Vitriform for helping me learn this MU from the peach perspective :D
Pikachu
Pit
Favorability
2.5
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams
Norfair
Bad Stages
Green Hill Zone
Smashville
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
WarioWare
Yoshi's Island
Distant Planet
General Strategy
Learn to DI D-throw. It's a combo throw versus floaty characters. Don't give Pit enough space to comfortably DD or WD camp. He's got better ground mobility than Zelda and a glide that will allow him to close in quickly once he decides to commit to an action. You want to avoid stages with short side blast zones or wide open spaces that will allow Pit to execute uninterrupted aerial combos. Pit can juggle with U-air and carry you far off stage with F-air. Pit will use D-throw or D-air to start most combos, but be wary of D-tilt too. Arrows can continue his combos once he's gotten you off the stage so try and avoid falling below the level of the ledge, or you'll be shot with no means to defend yourself. Pit doesn't have reliable methods of killing aside from carrying opponents deep off the stage or B-air, but he can kill with the final hit of U-smash, the second hit of F-smash, the spike hitbox of D-tilt, and Up-B.
Things to Look out for
1. U-air -> Up-B: Pit can juggle with U-air into an Up-B. However, if he misses or doesn't get a clean hit, then you may be able to punish him while he's in helpless. The center of U-air can kill at higher percents so avoid being in a position where Pit either is or can be directly below you.
There's little you can do to control Pit's spacing, but it wouldn't hurt to visit his wiki page or debug mode to see the spacing required for Pit to do the most damage/knockback for each move.
Videos
This was the only 3.6 Beta I found on YouTube. It's not high level, but it's good enough to give you an idea of Pit's strengths and weaknesses but perhaps a bit misleading on how Zelda should approach the matchup.
2.5
Good Stages
Battlefield
Delfino's Secret
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams
Norfair
Bad Stages
Green Hill Zone
Smashville
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
WarioWare
Yoshi's Island
Distant Planet
General Strategy
Learn to DI D-throw. It's a combo throw versus floaty characters. Don't give Pit enough space to comfortably DD or WD camp. He's got better ground mobility than Zelda and a glide that will allow him to close in quickly once he decides to commit to an action. You want to avoid stages with short side blast zones or wide open spaces that will allow Pit to execute uninterrupted aerial combos. Pit can juggle with U-air and carry you far off stage with F-air. Pit will use D-throw or D-air to start most combos, but be wary of D-tilt too. Arrows can continue his combos once he's gotten you off the stage so try and avoid falling below the level of the ledge, or you'll be shot with no means to defend yourself. Pit doesn't have reliable methods of killing aside from carrying opponents deep off the stage or B-air, but he can kill with the final hit of U-smash, the second hit of F-smash, the spike hitbox of D-tilt, and Up-B.
Things to Look out for
1. U-air -> Up-B: Pit can juggle with U-air into an Up-B. However, if he misses or doesn't get a clean hit, then you may be able to punish him while he's in helpless. The center of U-air can kill at higher percents so avoid being in a position where Pit either is or can be directly below you.
There's little you can do to control Pit's spacing, but it wouldn't hurt to visit his wiki page or debug mode to see the spacing required for Pit to do the most damage/knockback for each move.
Videos
This was the only 3.6 Beta I found on YouTube. It's not high level, but it's good enough to give you an idea of Pit's strengths and weaknesses but perhaps a bit misleading on how Zelda should approach the matchup.
ROB
Roy
Favorability
2.5
Good Stages
Dreamland
Final Destination
Smashville
Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
WarioWare
Yoshi’s Story
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
Roy excels when he can play on a small stage with small blastzones and low-hanging platforms. Don’t afford him this opportunity. The smaller the stage, the fewer the places you have to run, and the more platforms, the more opportunity he has to noncommittally platform techchase you and set up juggles. Roy can kill you very early with Fsmash (as low as 50% if he catches you with poor DI), so stages with small sides are not your best options unless they offer some sort of other advantage. Stage selection can be a little unusual in this matchup because Roy excels on many of your go-to stages, such as FoD, so stick to large or flat stages with fewer platforms and high ceilings.
General Strategy
Roy can be a somewhat troublesome matchup because he can easily outmaneuver and outspace you with his excellent ground mobility and his sword respectively. Thankfully, he lacks a projectile, so you have the advantage if you can keep Roy at a good distance. Play patiently and defensively, moving in to strike only when necessary or when it is safe to do so. Roy can DD camp you, but if you choose your stages/bans wisely, you should be able to stop him from forcing you to go on the offensive.
Din’s Fire, DD and spaced Bair walls will be your primary neutral game tools. At longer distances, cast a Din to restrict Roy’s movement and force him to approach on your terms. He can easily clank it with jab or Ftilt, but it might open up Roy’s defenses long enough for you to capitalize. Telecancel approaches are a good way to get in on Roy if he wastes time trying to clank a Din. If he DD camps you at midrange and fishes for grabs, try to bait him with your own DD and LC Nayru (B-reverses can be helpful here) or set up a wall with your various short-hopped Bair mixups (SHFFL Bair, Bair WL, SH Bair -> Nayru, and SH double Bair are all good options). Roy can also throw in spaced Dtilts and Ftilts for zoning. If you’re close enough to Roy, Dtilt spam can be punished with short-hopped Bairs.
If Roy tries to take a more aggressive approach and pressures you with DED (Double edge dance) and spaced aerials, it is important not to panic. Stay in shield (but watch for grabs) and scan for opportunities to retaliate. Roy’s aerials are all quite safe on shield if he spaces correctly (his best aerial on shield is Uair, at -2, and his worst is Dair, at -5), and they will push you back somewhat if he sweetspots, so don’t count on being able to shield grab him (by all means go for it if he makes a mistake though). DED is dangerous because it deals considerable shield damage (especially the downward modes) and has tons of mixups, including a stab that reaches behind Roy on the 4th strike, but there is sometimes enough lag between hits to react with an OoS option (usually shield grab/Usmash/up-B). Treat his pressure like spacie pressure; if you are certain that he has timed or spaced something poorly, make him pay for it. If not, don’t be afraid to buffer a roll or WD OoS and reset to neutral.
Roy is a semi-fast faller, so your bread and butter follow-ups will work a treat. Usmash/Utilt will chain until around 40%, and you can usually finish with a Kick or Nair. Below 25% or so, you will want to Uthrow him to take advantage of his fall speed and lead into your Usmashes; beyond that, he will often fly too high for your smashes (but you can still get a Nair or Kick), so it’s your choice whether you want to Uthrow him again or go for Dthrow techchases. Dthrow/Fthrow DI mixups are potent at higher percents to net surprise Lightning Kick kills. As usual, you can extend combos with dash attack and any Din’s Fires you happen to have lying around.
Unfortunately, Roy is not the easiest character to edgeguard if he can sweetspot the ledge correctly. His up-B has massive disjoint, multiple hits, and an annoyingly long hang time at the end which makes it extremely difficult to edgehog him with a roll from the ledge. If you have time, your best option is to place a Din right next to the ledge, as close as possible, so Roy’s up-B drags him into it, then Dair him out of the hitstun. A slightly more difficult option is to time your teleport snap to ledge so that you grab it just as Roy’s up-B hitboxes come out; this will give you enough ledge invincibility to absorb the hits. Simply keep hold of the ledge and watch Roy plummet to his death. You can also hold ledge and teleport regrab to hit him with the ribbon hitbox (make sure you can maintain ledge invincibility if you do this, since Roy’s up-B can easily stage spike you if you’re not invincible). Forcing him to recover onstage is good, since his recovery has a lot of endlag, making for easy punishes, but you will rarely be afforded this opportunity if Roy knows what he is doing.
Roy’s offstage game is poor, meaning you can usually recover unhindered if you are above the stage and far enough away. Things get more difficult if you need to recover low. Roy can grab the ledge and force you to recover onstage, then use his quick ledgedash and good mobility to punish the end lag of your teleport. Recover high whenever possible, and sweetspot the ledge whenever Roy fails to cover that option. Don’t ledgehop Nayru to get back onstage unless you’re punishing a whiff; Roy can stuff this option far too easily with Dtilt, Ftilt or Fsmash, the last of which can easily kill you.
Things to Watch For
Invincible ledgedashes – Roy’s ledgedash is fast enough that he can perform many actions out of it while maintaining ledge invincibility. Give it due respect, back off, and hold stage control if you suspect that he will try to attack you out of ledgedash.
Dthrow/Fthrow mixups – DI both throws down and away from Roy to avoid follow-ups.
Juggles – Like most characters with large disjoints, Roy can easily juggle you with Fair, Uair, and Utilt. Get to the ground as quickly as possible, and avoid platforms on the way down unless you know Roy cannot reach them in time to resume the juggle.
2.5
Good Stages
Dreamland
Final Destination
Smashville
Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
WarioWare
Yoshi’s Story
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
Roy excels when he can play on a small stage with small blastzones and low-hanging platforms. Don’t afford him this opportunity. The smaller the stage, the fewer the places you have to run, and the more platforms, the more opportunity he has to noncommittally platform techchase you and set up juggles. Roy can kill you very early with Fsmash (as low as 50% if he catches you with poor DI), so stages with small sides are not your best options unless they offer some sort of other advantage. Stage selection can be a little unusual in this matchup because Roy excels on many of your go-to stages, such as FoD, so stick to large or flat stages with fewer platforms and high ceilings.
General Strategy
Roy can be a somewhat troublesome matchup because he can easily outmaneuver and outspace you with his excellent ground mobility and his sword respectively. Thankfully, he lacks a projectile, so you have the advantage if you can keep Roy at a good distance. Play patiently and defensively, moving in to strike only when necessary or when it is safe to do so. Roy can DD camp you, but if you choose your stages/bans wisely, you should be able to stop him from forcing you to go on the offensive.
Din’s Fire, DD and spaced Bair walls will be your primary neutral game tools. At longer distances, cast a Din to restrict Roy’s movement and force him to approach on your terms. He can easily clank it with jab or Ftilt, but it might open up Roy’s defenses long enough for you to capitalize. Telecancel approaches are a good way to get in on Roy if he wastes time trying to clank a Din. If he DD camps you at midrange and fishes for grabs, try to bait him with your own DD and LC Nayru (B-reverses can be helpful here) or set up a wall with your various short-hopped Bair mixups (SHFFL Bair, Bair WL, SH Bair -> Nayru, and SH double Bair are all good options). Roy can also throw in spaced Dtilts and Ftilts for zoning. If you’re close enough to Roy, Dtilt spam can be punished with short-hopped Bairs.
If Roy tries to take a more aggressive approach and pressures you with DED (Double edge dance) and spaced aerials, it is important not to panic. Stay in shield (but watch for grabs) and scan for opportunities to retaliate. Roy’s aerials are all quite safe on shield if he spaces correctly (his best aerial on shield is Uair, at -2, and his worst is Dair, at -5), and they will push you back somewhat if he sweetspots, so don’t count on being able to shield grab him (by all means go for it if he makes a mistake though). DED is dangerous because it deals considerable shield damage (especially the downward modes) and has tons of mixups, including a stab that reaches behind Roy on the 4th strike, but there is sometimes enough lag between hits to react with an OoS option (usually shield grab/Usmash/up-B). Treat his pressure like spacie pressure; if you are certain that he has timed or spaced something poorly, make him pay for it. If not, don’t be afraid to buffer a roll or WD OoS and reset to neutral.
Roy is a semi-fast faller, so your bread and butter follow-ups will work a treat. Usmash/Utilt will chain until around 40%, and you can usually finish with a Kick or Nair. Below 25% or so, you will want to Uthrow him to take advantage of his fall speed and lead into your Usmashes; beyond that, he will often fly too high for your smashes (but you can still get a Nair or Kick), so it’s your choice whether you want to Uthrow him again or go for Dthrow techchases. Dthrow/Fthrow DI mixups are potent at higher percents to net surprise Lightning Kick kills. As usual, you can extend combos with dash attack and any Din’s Fires you happen to have lying around.
Unfortunately, Roy is not the easiest character to edgeguard if he can sweetspot the ledge correctly. His up-B has massive disjoint, multiple hits, and an annoyingly long hang time at the end which makes it extremely difficult to edgehog him with a roll from the ledge. If you have time, your best option is to place a Din right next to the ledge, as close as possible, so Roy’s up-B drags him into it, then Dair him out of the hitstun. A slightly more difficult option is to time your teleport snap to ledge so that you grab it just as Roy’s up-B hitboxes come out; this will give you enough ledge invincibility to absorb the hits. Simply keep hold of the ledge and watch Roy plummet to his death. You can also hold ledge and teleport regrab to hit him with the ribbon hitbox (make sure you can maintain ledge invincibility if you do this, since Roy’s up-B can easily stage spike you if you’re not invincible). Forcing him to recover onstage is good, since his recovery has a lot of endlag, making for easy punishes, but you will rarely be afforded this opportunity if Roy knows what he is doing.
Roy’s offstage game is poor, meaning you can usually recover unhindered if you are above the stage and far enough away. Things get more difficult if you need to recover low. Roy can grab the ledge and force you to recover onstage, then use his quick ledgedash and good mobility to punish the end lag of your teleport. Recover high whenever possible, and sweetspot the ledge whenever Roy fails to cover that option. Don’t ledgehop Nayru to get back onstage unless you’re punishing a whiff; Roy can stuff this option far too easily with Dtilt, Ftilt or Fsmash, the last of which can easily kill you.
Things to Watch For
Invincible ledgedashes – Roy’s ledgedash is fast enough that he can perform many actions out of it while maintaining ledge invincibility. Give it due respect, back off, and hold stage control if you suspect that he will try to attack you out of ledgedash.
Dthrow/Fthrow mixups – DI both throws down and away from Roy to avoid follow-ups.
Juggles – Like most characters with large disjoints, Roy can easily juggle you with Fair, Uair, and Utilt. Get to the ground as quickly as possible, and avoid platforms on the way down unless you know Roy cannot reach them in time to resume the juggle.
Samus
Favorability
2
Good Stages
Don't pick stages that
A. have close side blast lines
B. make it difficult to approach Samus while she's missile camping
C. allow Samus to escape your combos easily
Delfino's Secret
Smashville
Skyworld
Distant Planet
Norfair
Yoshi's Island
Bad Stages
All small stages + Battlefield
General Strategy
Samus is a heavy floater and a horizontal killer with Charge Shot, Missiles, Ice F-air, F-smash, and more.
That is one of the main reasons you want to avoid small stages. Then there's the fact that Zelda's lightning kicks, F-smash, and D-smash (to edgeguard) are less effective in this matchup since you won't find yourself with the positioning or situation to use those tools often. You have a better shot of killing her off the top with sweetspot U-air, early U-tilt, strong Din's explosions, and even U-smash at higher percents.
Use F-air and land cancelled Nayru's to approach at long and medium range. If you picked a good stage then you can use the platforms to approach with shielding and teleport cancels. Your good attacks in this matchup keep Samus above you so rely on F-tilt, U-smash, U-tilt, and even U-throw. She is vulnerable in the air and can't camp from there.
If you play the matchup right, you'll be able to combo her better than she can combo you, and her projectile game shouldn't give you much trouble while you're on or above the stage.
Recover low and don't use Farore's offstage if you're in a position where her missiles and F-air ice can hit you. You won't make it back. Also try to avoid using Nayru's to reflect missiles while offstage since the missiles are baiting the attack and she'll just shoot more.
Things to look out for
Samus firing a Charge Shot from the ledge
Her D-air on or offstage. Tech it if possible, so you can avoid a missile or other nasty followup.
Zair A Samus that makes good use of Zair is difficult to approach, and I'm not sure what you can do about that.
The super wavedash. That's her burst movement option, so if you give her a lot of horizontal ground or mindlessly try setting up a Din's, prepare to have her in your face instantly.
Videos
There aren't any high level 3.5 videos available of this matchup available since both characters are underrepresented at the highest levels. In 3.02, this matchup was still rare at a high level, and the only notable time it occurred is when ESAM dominated Zhime when Zhime was unfamiliar with the matchup at that level.
2
Good Stages
Don't pick stages that
A. have close side blast lines
B. make it difficult to approach Samus while she's missile camping
C. allow Samus to escape your combos easily
Delfino's Secret
Smashville
Skyworld
Distant Planet
Norfair
Yoshi's Island
Bad Stages
All small stages + Battlefield
General Strategy
Samus is a heavy floater and a horizontal killer with Charge Shot, Missiles, Ice F-air, F-smash, and more.
That is one of the main reasons you want to avoid small stages. Then there's the fact that Zelda's lightning kicks, F-smash, and D-smash (to edgeguard) are less effective in this matchup since you won't find yourself with the positioning or situation to use those tools often. You have a better shot of killing her off the top with sweetspot U-air, early U-tilt, strong Din's explosions, and even U-smash at higher percents.
Use F-air and land cancelled Nayru's to approach at long and medium range. If you picked a good stage then you can use the platforms to approach with shielding and teleport cancels. Your good attacks in this matchup keep Samus above you so rely on F-tilt, U-smash, U-tilt, and even U-throw. She is vulnerable in the air and can't camp from there.
If you play the matchup right, you'll be able to combo her better than she can combo you, and her projectile game shouldn't give you much trouble while you're on or above the stage.
Recover low and don't use Farore's offstage if you're in a position where her missiles and F-air ice can hit you. You won't make it back. Also try to avoid using Nayru's to reflect missiles while offstage since the missiles are baiting the attack and she'll just shoot more.
Things to look out for
Samus firing a Charge Shot from the ledge
Her D-air on or offstage. Tech it if possible, so you can avoid a missile or other nasty followup.
Zair A Samus that makes good use of Zair is difficult to approach, and I'm not sure what you can do about that.
The super wavedash. That's her burst movement option, so if you give her a lot of horizontal ground or mindlessly try setting up a Din's, prepare to have her in your face instantly.
Videos
There aren't any high level 3.5 videos available of this matchup available since both characters are underrepresented at the highest levels. In 3.02, this matchup was still rare at a high level, and the only notable time it occurred is when ESAM dominated Zhime when Zhime was unfamiliar with the matchup at that level.
Sheik
Character
Sheik
Favorability
2.5 (It's 45:55 for zelda)
Good Stages
Yoshi's Story
Warioware
GHZ
FoD
Bad Stages
Dreamland
Norfair
Black Mamba said that smaller stages benefit more since the back throw gets more utility in edgeguarding and your combos will send Sheik off easier and kill her faster than she can kill you. Also bigger stages is where sheik can camp you and throw needles so I put those as the good and bad stages. I personally think it's up to whether you're more comfortable in smaller or bigger stages since they benefit both characters in the same way.
General Strategy
Sheik's a defensive character that has a bunch of fast moves and is very hard to grab or punish in general. Defensive characters tend to be a harder match up for zelda since she excel at punish game. With both playing a punish game the one that has more committal moves (zelda) tends to lose the match up i.e. marth vs sheik is considered in sheik's favor mostly.
When approaching sheik it's going to be hard. Most of the moves you should use are well spaced lightning kicks, going in with only the edge of Naryu's hitting them, down tilt, or with a grab. Dash attack is pretty risky same as up smash. Fsmash on their shield is pretty good since there isn't a lot of end lag on the move. You can fsmash and proceed to run away or pressure their shield just watch out for your spacing. What I think is a great thing to use against sheik is throwing the dins near sheik's shield and then telecanceling on either side of her shield. Off of telecancel you should mostly grab since they are trying to block the din's near them. The back throw is what lets you edgeguard her super well. Dash dancing serves as a great way to approach or punish. For approaching dash dancing around din's or dash dance grab helps a lot. If you're more technical dash dance shield stop into retreating bair or fair is a great way to throw out a safe hit box and make the sheik's not get comfortable.
The way to punish sheik is mostly being at a range where they would rather dash attack then grab. Dash dance in this range with a din's out and they will definitely feel pressured to throw some move out. Dash attack is a great move for you to punish. You can upsmash oos or grab or a fade back lightning kick. Other ways of punishing her would be being under her and upsmashing or uptiliting. If she is 45 degrees above you in the air she has too many options so try to avoid those situations by moving away. Dsmash is usually safe on shield but sometimes you can punish it with a lightning kick oos. CC can limit a lot of her options, if she is approaching from the air CC upsmash and if it's from the ground CC grab or ftilt or dtilt which will get a lot of leverage in starting combos.
Most of sheik's moves are safe on shield so when you get a shield grab or a lightning kick to send her off stage take advantage of the edgeguard as much as you can.
Grab the ledge and refresh invincibility so she won't hit you with poofy poofs or try to go for the ledge. After you grab the ledge you punish the landing. Don't do standard get up or rolling from the ledge cause that takes a lot of time. Ledge dashing or just jumping onto the stage from the ledge is a lot faster and lets you do better follow ups. Most of the time you want to get another back throw into another edgeguard sitation or a lightning kick/fsmash that will kill. I usually wouldn't place the din's near the edge because it doesn't stop sheik's edgeguard. Place it near the middle of the stage so if she does make it back she will have a din's there to limit her stage control.
When you have the lead or need to control the pace of the game. Retreat with bairs and set out din's. Watch out for the grabs and you should be living for awhile. Recovering is a giant key to surviving against sheik so always mix it up and play smart.
Things to look out for
Dthrow and Bthrow- DI dthrow away and down to tech and DI Bthrow towards sheik. These are DI mix ups that if you mess up you can eat a nasty fair or bair and possibly die.
If a sheik is coming for a follow up from a ftilit or a down throw DO NOT JUMP. Sometimes you jump to get away but Sheik's fair will eat up the jump and just limit your recovery back on the stage and Sheiks edgeguard like monsters
When close to the stage try to go for the air dodge since fair is super fast and can hit you out of Farore's start up. Else be farther so she can't go out and hit you or throw a needle to interrupt you.
Needles are a pain. They are fast and you can't really reflect them with naryu's if they are fully charged.
Contributions
Black Mamba
Sheik
Favorability
2.5 (It's 45:55 for zelda)
Good Stages
Yoshi's Story
Warioware
GHZ
FoD
Bad Stages
Dreamland
Norfair
Black Mamba said that smaller stages benefit more since the back throw gets more utility in edgeguarding and your combos will send Sheik off easier and kill her faster than she can kill you. Also bigger stages is where sheik can camp you and throw needles so I put those as the good and bad stages. I personally think it's up to whether you're more comfortable in smaller or bigger stages since they benefit both characters in the same way.
General Strategy
Sheik's a defensive character that has a bunch of fast moves and is very hard to grab or punish in general. Defensive characters tend to be a harder match up for zelda since she excel at punish game. With both playing a punish game the one that has more committal moves (zelda) tends to lose the match up i.e. marth vs sheik is considered in sheik's favor mostly.
When approaching sheik it's going to be hard. Most of the moves you should use are well spaced lightning kicks, going in with only the edge of Naryu's hitting them, down tilt, or with a grab. Dash attack is pretty risky same as up smash. Fsmash on their shield is pretty good since there isn't a lot of end lag on the move. You can fsmash and proceed to run away or pressure their shield just watch out for your spacing. What I think is a great thing to use against sheik is throwing the dins near sheik's shield and then telecanceling on either side of her shield. Off of telecancel you should mostly grab since they are trying to block the din's near them. The back throw is what lets you edgeguard her super well. Dash dancing serves as a great way to approach or punish. For approaching dash dancing around din's or dash dance grab helps a lot. If you're more technical dash dance shield stop into retreating bair or fair is a great way to throw out a safe hit box and make the sheik's not get comfortable.
The way to punish sheik is mostly being at a range where they would rather dash attack then grab. Dash dance in this range with a din's out and they will definitely feel pressured to throw some move out. Dash attack is a great move for you to punish. You can upsmash oos or grab or a fade back lightning kick. Other ways of punishing her would be being under her and upsmashing or uptiliting. If she is 45 degrees above you in the air she has too many options so try to avoid those situations by moving away. Dsmash is usually safe on shield but sometimes you can punish it with a lightning kick oos. CC can limit a lot of her options, if she is approaching from the air CC upsmash and if it's from the ground CC grab or ftilt or dtilt which will get a lot of leverage in starting combos.
Most of sheik's moves are safe on shield so when you get a shield grab or a lightning kick to send her off stage take advantage of the edgeguard as much as you can.
Grab the ledge and refresh invincibility so she won't hit you with poofy poofs or try to go for the ledge. After you grab the ledge you punish the landing. Don't do standard get up or rolling from the ledge cause that takes a lot of time. Ledge dashing or just jumping onto the stage from the ledge is a lot faster and lets you do better follow ups. Most of the time you want to get another back throw into another edgeguard sitation or a lightning kick/fsmash that will kill. I usually wouldn't place the din's near the edge because it doesn't stop sheik's edgeguard. Place it near the middle of the stage so if she does make it back she will have a din's there to limit her stage control.
When you have the lead or need to control the pace of the game. Retreat with bairs and set out din's. Watch out for the grabs and you should be living for awhile. Recovering is a giant key to surviving against sheik so always mix it up and play smart.
Things to look out for
Dthrow and Bthrow- DI dthrow away and down to tech and DI Bthrow towards sheik. These are DI mix ups that if you mess up you can eat a nasty fair or bair and possibly die.
If a sheik is coming for a follow up from a ftilit or a down throw DO NOT JUMP. Sometimes you jump to get away but Sheik's fair will eat up the jump and just limit your recovery back on the stage and Sheiks edgeguard like monsters
When close to the stage try to go for the air dodge since fair is super fast and can hit you out of Farore's start up. Else be farther so she can't go out and hit you or throw a needle to interrupt you.
Needles are a pain. They are fast and you can't really reflect them with naryu's if they are fully charged.
Contributions
Black Mamba
Snake
Sonic
Favorability
4 against aggro Sonic. 2 against campy Sonic.
Good Stages
Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Warioware, Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
Final Destination(never), Pokestadium 2, Dreamland, Norfair, Distant Planet
General Strategy
If aggro just bait any form of movement in with land cancelled Nayrus and then hit him out of it with an assortment of dash attack, ftilt, nair, another Nayrus. If you do not have enough time to kick him when applicable, shield then try to bair him oos. Bair oos only works on slower DownB speeds, SideB but is tough to time without getting hit, and dash attack.
If campy there is very little you can do. place dins with extreme caution as he can punish across any stage. Again you will want to bait movement options with Nayrus, but if that doesn't work you will need to FORCE interaction by slowly dash dancing towards him and taking stage away from him to force him to act. If he tries to go above you be ready with uair and nair to nab him. If he tries to go through you be ready with shield and dash attack.
Things to look out for
Sonic can grab out of SideB. Though bair is fast enough to hit him as he exits your shield, he can just cancel SideB into a grab before he makes it to the other side.
Sonic will usually upthrow > aerial against most characters. DI all of his throws to the front of him as he will only use upthrow and dthrow as they are his good throws. There is no way to escape aerials out of upthrow other than getting to a high enough % or DIing poorly on purpose to catch him off guard. If the upthrow will put you off stage at percents greater than 100 I would recommend DIing into the stage so he cannot edgeguard you nor get UpB > uair at higher percent.
Videos
I will get some videos of my training partner and myself soon.
Attribution
Training partner and I
4 against aggro Sonic. 2 against campy Sonic.
Good Stages
Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Warioware, Green Hill Zone
Bad Stages
Final Destination(never), Pokestadium 2, Dreamland, Norfair, Distant Planet
General Strategy
If aggro just bait any form of movement in with land cancelled Nayrus and then hit him out of it with an assortment of dash attack, ftilt, nair, another Nayrus. If you do not have enough time to kick him when applicable, shield then try to bair him oos. Bair oos only works on slower DownB speeds, SideB but is tough to time without getting hit, and dash attack.
If campy there is very little you can do. place dins with extreme caution as he can punish across any stage. Again you will want to bait movement options with Nayrus, but if that doesn't work you will need to FORCE interaction by slowly dash dancing towards him and taking stage away from him to force him to act. If he tries to go above you be ready with uair and nair to nab him. If he tries to go through you be ready with shield and dash attack.
Things to look out for
Sonic can grab out of SideB. Though bair is fast enough to hit him as he exits your shield, he can just cancel SideB into a grab before he makes it to the other side.
Sonic will usually upthrow > aerial against most characters. DI all of his throws to the front of him as he will only use upthrow and dthrow as they are his good throws. There is no way to escape aerials out of upthrow other than getting to a high enough % or DIing poorly on purpose to catch him off guard. If the upthrow will put you off stage at percents greater than 100 I would recommend DIing into the stage so he cannot edgeguard you nor get UpB > uair at higher percent.
Videos
I will get some videos of my training partner and myself soon.
Attribution
Training partner and I
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Favorability
4 on a good stage, 2 on a bad stage, so overall 3
Good Stages
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Green Hill Zone
Fountain of Dreams
Bad Stages
Warioware
Yoshi’s Brawl
Yoshi’s Melee
~PS2
His primary killers are Wolf Flash (side-b) and f-air. f-air kills off the top, and Flash off the side, so that causes a few problems when finding stages. Either way, you want some space to get away, but not if he starts spamming lasers. Small stages with lots of platforms (YS, WW) are terrible, because you have NO room to get away, and you will die. Fountain is a toss-up, because the platforms might help or hurt you, as will the short sides. PS2 is okay, but more in his favor. The wide stage means you don’t die from Flash as easily, but he won’t die from kick as well. The low ceiling definitely favors him.
General Strategy
Another spacie, so...GRAB HIM! Up-throw > up-smash can chain together in a 0-death on FD (and Smashville/GHZ if the platform is out of the way). If not a 0-death, you can still combo him VERY hard. Lightning Kick, d-smash, and f-smash will be your primary killers. Up-throw > up-smash shenanigans will lead into kick pretty easily.
Use up-smash OoS and roll to get out of shield pressure (mostly n-air shine), and be sure to tech on d-airs. LC Nayru’s is very good in neutral, but he CAN punish it if he’s smart, so you’ll need to be careful if he starts to get a read on you. F-tilt, of course, is a nice combo starter as well, though high commitment.
Din’s is your friend. Din’s on the ground can extend and start tech chases. Din’s in the air doesn’t help you a whole lot, as he can quickly n-air to get rid of it. Additionally, the wisp hitbox is quite useful for messing up his very good dash dance game. If you can, try to keep a Din’s out at all times. D-throw > Din’s on the tech away can give you the ability to follow up with something else.
As far as edgeguarding goes, BE CAREFUL. Wolf Flash is faster than up-b, and is thus his go-to. Additionally, his up-b has significantly less start-up lag than Fox and Falco’s. Do not get hit by Wolf Flash when trying to edgeguard, that burst speed can cause you problems, but Nayru’s is Nayru’s :D f-smash is a fantastic edgeguarder. You can actually d-air him out of up-b with relative ease if you’re there early and prepared for it, but more often than not, you’ll want to stay on stage and use Nayru’s or f-smash and set up a Din’s.
Things to look out for
Lasers: The increased speed and range on his lasers gave him a great way to shut you down. They remain in the air while he is moving around, which means he can wait for your reaction and punish accordingly.
Flashwalking: On sloped stages, he can use wolf flash on the ground, then slip right back to where he started, giving him the ability to use Wolf Flash effectively non-commitally. This is a huge reason to ban both Yoshi’s.
DI mix-ups: His d-throw and b-throw look pretty similar (watch for the backflip on his b-throw), and they send at approximately the same angle to either side of him. You’ll usually want to both of them DOWN AND AWAY, to prevent d-air, f-air, and b-air follow-ups. At high%, you might actually want to DI his b-throw straight up, because it will start to lead into Flash.
Videos
None
Attribution
Adrian…whose technical skill and knowledge of frame data is matched only by M2K. He’s a local Wolf player that has spoken with me extensively on the MU and played me in tournament far more times than we are comfortable with.
4 on a good stage, 2 on a bad stage, so overall 3
Good Stages
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Green Hill Zone
Fountain of Dreams
Bad Stages
Warioware
Yoshi’s Brawl
Yoshi’s Melee
~PS2
His primary killers are Wolf Flash (side-b) and f-air. f-air kills off the top, and Flash off the side, so that causes a few problems when finding stages. Either way, you want some space to get away, but not if he starts spamming lasers. Small stages with lots of platforms (YS, WW) are terrible, because you have NO room to get away, and you will die. Fountain is a toss-up, because the platforms might help or hurt you, as will the short sides. PS2 is okay, but more in his favor. The wide stage means you don’t die from Flash as easily, but he won’t die from kick as well. The low ceiling definitely favors him.
General Strategy
Another spacie, so...GRAB HIM! Up-throw > up-smash can chain together in a 0-death on FD (and Smashville/GHZ if the platform is out of the way). If not a 0-death, you can still combo him VERY hard. Lightning Kick, d-smash, and f-smash will be your primary killers. Up-throw > up-smash shenanigans will lead into kick pretty easily.
Use up-smash OoS and roll to get out of shield pressure (mostly n-air shine), and be sure to tech on d-airs. LC Nayru’s is very good in neutral, but he CAN punish it if he’s smart, so you’ll need to be careful if he starts to get a read on you. F-tilt, of course, is a nice combo starter as well, though high commitment.
Din’s is your friend. Din’s on the ground can extend and start tech chases. Din’s in the air doesn’t help you a whole lot, as he can quickly n-air to get rid of it. Additionally, the wisp hitbox is quite useful for messing up his very good dash dance game. If you can, try to keep a Din’s out at all times. D-throw > Din’s on the tech away can give you the ability to follow up with something else.
As far as edgeguarding goes, BE CAREFUL. Wolf Flash is faster than up-b, and is thus his go-to. Additionally, his up-b has significantly less start-up lag than Fox and Falco’s. Do not get hit by Wolf Flash when trying to edgeguard, that burst speed can cause you problems, but Nayru’s is Nayru’s :D f-smash is a fantastic edgeguarder. You can actually d-air him out of up-b with relative ease if you’re there early and prepared for it, but more often than not, you’ll want to stay on stage and use Nayru’s or f-smash and set up a Din’s.
Things to look out for
Lasers: The increased speed and range on his lasers gave him a great way to shut you down. They remain in the air while he is moving around, which means he can wait for your reaction and punish accordingly.
Flashwalking: On sloped stages, he can use wolf flash on the ground, then slip right back to where he started, giving him the ability to use Wolf Flash effectively non-commitally. This is a huge reason to ban both Yoshi’s.
DI mix-ups: His d-throw and b-throw look pretty similar (watch for the backflip on his b-throw), and they send at approximately the same angle to either side of him. You’ll usually want to both of them DOWN AND AWAY, to prevent d-air, f-air, and b-air follow-ups. At high%, you might actually want to DI his b-throw straight up, because it will start to lead into Flash.
Videos
None
Attribution
Adrian…whose technical skill and knowledge of frame data is matched only by M2K. He’s a local Wolf player that has spoken with me extensively on the MU and played me in tournament far more times than we are comfortable with.
Yoshi
Favorability
3
Good Stages
Final Destination
Smashville
Green Hill Zone
WarioWare
Fountain of Doom
Bad Stages
Yoshi’s Island
Dreamland
Yoshi’s Story
Battlefield
Yoshi’s movement game thrives on platforms, so Zelda can work fairly well on stages that are open and flat. Depending on how quickly you want to death combo Yoshi, you can take a little risk and go Warioware or Green hill, or even Yoshi's story, because you might also die relatively quickly.
General Strategy
This matchup is best played with a Din’s around you at all times. I think most matchups are best that way, but in this situation, it will force the Yoshi to concentrate on the Din’s in some situations when he should be focusing on you, and that will lead to a free punish. If he doesn’t focus on the Din’s, you can tap him with it, and that gives you even a nominal amount of hitstun to work with. He can double jump through it though, so it isn’t phenomenal for edge guarding, but tacking on the extra percent can only help.
From the moment you start, you should be looking for a Grab or an Usmash. Play the neutral, poke with Din’s and Telecancel about until you find the opportune moment to do Zelda things.
Once you get the grab, telecancel to tech chase and punish to the best of your ability. If they DI improperly, an Usmash will do just fine. Yoshi’s on the shorter side of things, so it’s a little tougher to snag him from the side with Usmash. Once you get an Usmash, you can follow it up with another Usmash if they’re below 15%, or you can Nair, and continue it with a Din’s, possibly. If you want to end it and set back to neutral, or don’t have the time to Nair, Uair works fine too. Sometimes they’ll just be in range to kick out of Usmash, so don’t be afraid to go for that too. Standard Zelda combos are just fine here.
Be wary of your tilts. Yoshi’s grab is quite long, and will grab you out of a lot of things you may want to do, so monitor their positioning when going for an Ftilt. Additionally, Yoshi can duck under your Ftilt at a certain range, and punish with his set-knockback Dtilt, which gets to be a pain.
Yoshi is looking for a grab or pivot grab on you, so a well-timed Nayru’s will stuff his approach. If he’s coming at you from the air, don’t you dare Nayru’s. because you’ll eat a Nair or Fair.
Spacing your every move is incredibly important in this matchup. A moment of sloppiness will result in a grab, nair, dtilt, egg hit, or egg roll hit for Yoshi, and that puts you at a disadvantage. Grab him out of his egg roll, by the way. Pivot grab works best, but it doesn’t have to be. You can kick him out of things, but it has to be very precise, or else he’ll snag your foot with a hitbox.
Never be shielding too much. I know as Zelda it's usually a good idea, but don't. There are so many options that he has against you that if he catches you in shield, he can either command grab you from the air, use Dair for massive shield damage, or shield poke with Dtilt or the stars of his Down B.
Once Yoshi gets a grab, he can combo you for a little bit, even with "proper" DI.
His double jump will screw you, if you don’t know when he can use it. Be very aware of when he is in hitstun
Yoshi is also one of those characters that is very awkward to edgeguard, such as Sheik, Peach, and the like. You can hit him with a kick, but you need to wait for his super armor to end if he double jumps. If you can hit him before that, he should really already be dead.
Things to look out for
Pivot Grab – Yoshi’s Pivot grab is incredible and will get you if you aren’t paying attention. Yoshi’s throws also give him quite a few follow up options. Dthrow combos into just about anything, even if you DI away. If you DI behind him, then he can still nail you with an Uair, which acutally kills at higher percentages. 110% even, on some stages. Mashing jump if they are following you is probably not to bad of an option, and then finding your way out somehow is the next step. Obviously teleporting down works, but consider the Nayru's glide or even a falling uair/nair mixup.
Fair - When teleporting to recover offstage, Yoshi can very easily Fair you, which is a meteor, so be sure to cancel it if by some fluke he clips you.
Nair – Yoshi’s Rising Nair is difficult to deal with, and can kill fairly early on smaller stages. Don’t let it get the better of you.
Dair – just thought I’d mention it, but if all the hits of Dair connect, it does 56%, but it can be easily SDI’d. Just thought I’d warn you.
Dsmash – If you teleburn Yoshi while he’s crouching, he can easily cc and dsmash you, so be wary.
Egg toss – don’t bother reflecting these with LC Nayru’s. Just keep calm and carry on… to punish him for throwing an egg at you.
Video
Oracle vs. Hamyojo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZTROIgWB6g
Oracle vs. Hamyojo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZHwphmYLU
Zhime vs LsRainbows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObUlgrjwfGY
Attribution
Vitriform, myself, and countless hours of practice with @CatcherAndTheRai
3
Good Stages
Final Destination
Smashville
Green Hill Zone
WarioWare
Fountain of Doom
Bad Stages
Yoshi’s Island
Dreamland
Yoshi’s Story
Battlefield
Yoshi’s movement game thrives on platforms, so Zelda can work fairly well on stages that are open and flat. Depending on how quickly you want to death combo Yoshi, you can take a little risk and go Warioware or Green hill, or even Yoshi's story, because you might also die relatively quickly.
General Strategy
This matchup is best played with a Din’s around you at all times. I think most matchups are best that way, but in this situation, it will force the Yoshi to concentrate on the Din’s in some situations when he should be focusing on you, and that will lead to a free punish. If he doesn’t focus on the Din’s, you can tap him with it, and that gives you even a nominal amount of hitstun to work with. He can double jump through it though, so it isn’t phenomenal for edge guarding, but tacking on the extra percent can only help.
From the moment you start, you should be looking for a Grab or an Usmash. Play the neutral, poke with Din’s and Telecancel about until you find the opportune moment to do Zelda things.
Once you get the grab, telecancel to tech chase and punish to the best of your ability. If they DI improperly, an Usmash will do just fine. Yoshi’s on the shorter side of things, so it’s a little tougher to snag him from the side with Usmash. Once you get an Usmash, you can follow it up with another Usmash if they’re below 15%, or you can Nair, and continue it with a Din’s, possibly. If you want to end it and set back to neutral, or don’t have the time to Nair, Uair works fine too. Sometimes they’ll just be in range to kick out of Usmash, so don’t be afraid to go for that too. Standard Zelda combos are just fine here.
Be wary of your tilts. Yoshi’s grab is quite long, and will grab you out of a lot of things you may want to do, so monitor their positioning when going for an Ftilt. Additionally, Yoshi can duck under your Ftilt at a certain range, and punish with his set-knockback Dtilt, which gets to be a pain.
Yoshi is looking for a grab or pivot grab on you, so a well-timed Nayru’s will stuff his approach. If he’s coming at you from the air, don’t you dare Nayru’s. because you’ll eat a Nair or Fair.
Spacing your every move is incredibly important in this matchup. A moment of sloppiness will result in a grab, nair, dtilt, egg hit, or egg roll hit for Yoshi, and that puts you at a disadvantage. Grab him out of his egg roll, by the way. Pivot grab works best, but it doesn’t have to be. You can kick him out of things, but it has to be very precise, or else he’ll snag your foot with a hitbox.
Never be shielding too much. I know as Zelda it's usually a good idea, but don't. There are so many options that he has against you that if he catches you in shield, he can either command grab you from the air, use Dair for massive shield damage, or shield poke with Dtilt or the stars of his Down B.
Once Yoshi gets a grab, he can combo you for a little bit, even with "proper" DI.
His double jump will screw you, if you don’t know when he can use it. Be very aware of when he is in hitstun
Yoshi is also one of those characters that is very awkward to edgeguard, such as Sheik, Peach, and the like. You can hit him with a kick, but you need to wait for his super armor to end if he double jumps. If you can hit him before that, he should really already be dead.
Things to look out for
Pivot Grab – Yoshi’s Pivot grab is incredible and will get you if you aren’t paying attention. Yoshi’s throws also give him quite a few follow up options. Dthrow combos into just about anything, even if you DI away. If you DI behind him, then he can still nail you with an Uair, which acutally kills at higher percentages. 110% even, on some stages. Mashing jump if they are following you is probably not to bad of an option, and then finding your way out somehow is the next step. Obviously teleporting down works, but consider the Nayru's glide or even a falling uair/nair mixup.
Fair - When teleporting to recover offstage, Yoshi can very easily Fair you, which is a meteor, so be sure to cancel it if by some fluke he clips you.
Nair – Yoshi’s Rising Nair is difficult to deal with, and can kill fairly early on smaller stages. Don’t let it get the better of you.
Dair – just thought I’d mention it, but if all the hits of Dair connect, it does 56%, but it can be easily SDI’d. Just thought I’d warn you.
Dsmash – If you teleburn Yoshi while he’s crouching, he can easily cc and dsmash you, so be wary.
Egg toss – don’t bother reflecting these with LC Nayru’s. Just keep calm and carry on… to punish him for throwing an egg at you.
Video
Oracle vs. Hamyojo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZTROIgWB6g
Oracle vs. Hamyojo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZHwphmYLU
Zhime vs LsRainbows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObUlgrjwfGY
Attribution
Vitriform, myself, and countless hours of practice with @CatcherAndTheRai
Zero Suit Samus
Favorability
2
I'm going to say that against ZSS, Zelda is at a slight disadvantage. ZSS is very fast, has great recovery and a great combo game. However, after playing against several different Zelda mains and playing countless Zelda matches, this fight is in no way an easy win for ZSS.
Good Stages
Any small stage. Metal cavern, Yoshi's Island, Green hill zone, Wario Ware.
Bad Stages
Big Stages with platforms. Dreamland, Fountain of dreams, Lylat, Norfair
General Strategy
Keep space between you and ZSS. Start throwing out dins fire and landing them between you and her. Use Nayru's love to stuff any incoming attacks from neutral. Ground cancel as many Nayru's as possible. Grab OOS as often as possible and try to stay near the edge to setup a back-throw off-stage kill. When ZSS is recovering from off stage, put a dins ball right above the ledge. Also try baiting out a high recovery by placing a dins ball just before the ledge, but then meet ZSS in the air with nair. ZSS will try to get you in the air for aerial combos. Try to fair or bair her aerial pursuit. Sometimes placing a Dins ball on the other side of ZSS, and then recalling it can catch her off guard if she isnt expecting or paying attention to the return path hitbox. Great for getting you out of a combo.
Things to look out for
ZSS main throw will be dthrow, which bounces you upwards. DI up and away to get out of her nair range. Never let ZSS get below you, her up special if it hits you correctly will spike you to the ground. She can then meet you at the ground with a bair which usually kills at 100%+, try to tech this unusual spike if you are able to. ZSS's fsmash has a rear hitbox, watch out for that. Her dsmash is a paralyzer and it can be mashed to reduce duration. ZSS's dair is a head bouncer, kind of like falcon's, but much much weaker. It can be used to start a head bouncing juggle, which will eventually carry you to the ceiling if too many are strung together. DI to the side will make it hard to combo during the dair juggle, but its best to catch ZSS in an usmash before the dair juggle starts.
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX3hT2mX5tQ Numerics (ZSS) vs Atlas (Zelda/Sheik)
Attribution
My own experience playing against Zelda, as a ZSS main
2
I'm going to say that against ZSS, Zelda is at a slight disadvantage. ZSS is very fast, has great recovery and a great combo game. However, after playing against several different Zelda mains and playing countless Zelda matches, this fight is in no way an easy win for ZSS.
Good Stages
Any small stage. Metal cavern, Yoshi's Island, Green hill zone, Wario Ware.
Bad Stages
Big Stages with platforms. Dreamland, Fountain of dreams, Lylat, Norfair
General Strategy
Keep space between you and ZSS. Start throwing out dins fire and landing them between you and her. Use Nayru's love to stuff any incoming attacks from neutral. Ground cancel as many Nayru's as possible. Grab OOS as often as possible and try to stay near the edge to setup a back-throw off-stage kill. When ZSS is recovering from off stage, put a dins ball right above the ledge. Also try baiting out a high recovery by placing a dins ball just before the ledge, but then meet ZSS in the air with nair. ZSS will try to get you in the air for aerial combos. Try to fair or bair her aerial pursuit. Sometimes placing a Dins ball on the other side of ZSS, and then recalling it can catch her off guard if she isnt expecting or paying attention to the return path hitbox. Great for getting you out of a combo.
Things to look out for
ZSS main throw will be dthrow, which bounces you upwards. DI up and away to get out of her nair range. Never let ZSS get below you, her up special if it hits you correctly will spike you to the ground. She can then meet you at the ground with a bair which usually kills at 100%+, try to tech this unusual spike if you are able to. ZSS's fsmash has a rear hitbox, watch out for that. Her dsmash is a paralyzer and it can be mashed to reduce duration. ZSS's dair is a head bouncer, kind of like falcon's, but much much weaker. It can be used to start a head bouncing juggle, which will eventually carry you to the ceiling if too many are strung together. DI to the side will make it hard to combo during the dair juggle, but its best to catch ZSS in an usmash before the dair juggle starts.
Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX3hT2mX5tQ Numerics (ZSS) vs Atlas (Zelda/Sheik)
Attribution
My own experience playing against Zelda, as a ZSS main
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