Zelda Franchise Discussion

[FalKoopa]

If Impa has to appear in Smash 4, she should (or rather, MUST) have her own moveset. No stealing moves from Sheik.

And it seems that Diddy has a lot of ideas for Impa. Why don't you post a moveset?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Will do. Have been posting a lot of ideas for it in the past, so I'll have to look up for A LOT of stuff. So might take a while for me to have a whole moveset. But it will be there, no worries.

 

[Shirekeldeo7]

I just want young link back from melee forget toon link

 

[Bowserlick]

I already have an Impa moveset. Sheik's moveset with the option to "tag-team" with Zelda.

Tingle or Ghirahim makes more sense to me.

 

[Zuby]

I just want young link back from melee forget toon link

There is absolutely no logical reason for them to do that.

 

[dazeno24]

Personally, I think they should just keep the same LoZ characters from Brawl, but give Ganondorf a new moveset.

 

[AEMehr]

Personally, I think they should just keep the same LoZ characters from Brawl, but give Ganondorf a new moveset.

This is the most likely of the bunch.

 

[FalKoopa]

I just want young link back from melee forget toon link

But he's so cute!

Can't you see that in my avatar?

 

[Gallowglass]

Personally, I think they should just keep the same LoZ characters from Brawl, but give Ganondorf a new moveset.

This is what I really want for the Zelda franchise too. I just like thinking about how other characters would be playable.

 

[FalKoopa]

I feel the Zelda series deserves another character, outside the holders of the Triforce.

 

[Bowserlick]

I would rather Ganondorf be made proper than a new character. But Ghirahim would be a nice addition. Tingle would be hilarious. And Toon Link with specials from his Windwaker games would be less lazy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa, and revamped Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and Toon Link.

I would like this best.

Personally.

In my personal lowly, humble opinion. Which is very biased. And totally unrealistic.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I feel the Zelda series deserves another character, outside the holders of the Triforce.

Agreed, after two games its high time they got a bit more. Especially if other series are still expanding

For me id like to see:
Link (SS)
Zelda (SS)
Ganondorf (revamp)
Impa (SS)
Ghirahim

 

[Gallowglass]

I mean if we're going by solely fandom then I would like to see.

Happy Mask Salesman
Error
The OOT Sages
Crazy Tracy

Just to name a few.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa was the Sage of Shadow.

 

[Arcadenik]

Skyward Sword characters: Link, Zelda (no transformations), Impa (spiritual successor to Sheik)
Wind Waker characters: Toon Link (further declone moveset to include Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and Fire & Ice Arrows, plus Four Swords Final Smash), Toon Zelda (transforms into Tetra), Ganondorf (dual swords)
Rosy Rupeeland characters: Tingle (as a balloon fighter)

I would be okay with this roster. No one-time Zelda character. Only recurring Zelda characters.

 

[FalKoopa]

As for the next LoZ rep, I think it would be either Tingle or Impa.

And no, Impa should not replace Sheik. Why can't both co-exist?

 

[Oasis_S]

And no, Impa should not replace Sheik. Why can't both co-exist?

Because they're both basically the same, and most people enjoy variety. Which is probably why Dr. Mario was cut, and why people either want or don't care if Toon Link is cut.

So yeah, Impa could only act as a replacement for Sheik, without her own moveset and still as Zelda's transformation.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna miss Zelda's Twilight Princess counterpart. She looked pretty. I have a feeling that Skyward Sword counterpart will take her place. I hear that Ghirahim may be one of the newcomers of Zelda franchise. Tingle would be a ridiculous choice for a newcomer. His moveset can be based on his assist trophy form. He swings hammers, recover with balloons, spit fire and more. I don't see the reason for Impa replacing Sheik. If that's the case, Zelda's may get a different down B move.

 

[FalKoopa]

So yeah, Impa could only act as a replacement for Sheik, without her own moveset and still as Zelda's transformation.

Zelda transforming into Impa would be weird.

If Impa can only appear as replacement for Sheik, then the only true newcomer I see is Tingle. (or Vaati by a long shot.)

 

[Oasis_S]

Zelda magics herself away while Impa comes in with a puff of smoke to answer her role as protector. Makes enough sense.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Exactly. It could easily work as an updated Zelda / Sheik idea as well as a separate Sheik character, own moveset or not.

 

[FalKoopa]

If Impa appears, she should be separate from Zelda, imo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Same here. As the Zelda/Sheik combination has always been a very unbalanced one. And seeing as Sheik is likely to not return again in Zelda, and we have a good substitude now, it's a good time to finally make Zelda a standalone character. And Impa would have Sheik's style. And if Sheik would ever return to Zelda, she can be in the next new Smash. If Impa stays, she keeps her spot in Smash. If both won't return: scrap Impa, add a new Zelda character - and Zelda would still be a standalone character.

This is how I feel about it. Any Zelda character NOT Link, Zelda or Ganondorf should be considered as easily disposable for new characters if they've been absent for a while. Now this is the case for Sheik, but before it was definitely the case for Young Link. But we quickly got a spiritual replacement: Toon Link. And there where a lot of people saying Toon Link should definitely get the axe before Wind Waker HD got announced.

Young Link and Toon Link are just about a whole league a head of importance than Sheik ever was. I bet you they're both far more popular to. So honestly, I think it's rather hyprocritical to expect Sheik to stay forever, but a child Link version is interswitchable. What makes a Sheikah character not interswitchable?

 

[FalKoopa]

If both won't return: scrap Impa, add a new Zelda character - and Zelda would still be a standalone character.

YOU SAID THIS??????!!!!!!!

I must be dreaming.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I said it, and I stand by it.

 

[Bowserlick]

Zelda was designed to be half of a character. She has glaring weaknesses in movement in order to make Sheik relevant to her fighting style. Zelda would have to be revamped quite a good deal if Sheik is taken away.

A better flow of transition between transformations (maybe involving attacks being attached to the switch) would be a better approach.

 

[FalKoopa]

Zelda was designed to be half of a character. She has glaring weaknesses in movement in order to make Sheik relevant to her fighting style. Zelda would have to be revamped quite a good deal if Sheik is taken away.

Unfortunately, it was not executed properly, and hardly anyone plays both of them together. A revamp would be welcome.

 

[Bowserlick]

But I doubt that will happen. If the cast is getting additional moves, perhaps Zelda will get tools to fill in some gaps her moveset has.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda was designed to be half of a character. She has glaring weaknesses in movement in order to make Sheik relevant to her fighting style. Zelda would have to be revamped quite a good deal if Sheik is taken away.

A better flow of transition between transformations (maybe involving attacks being attached to the switch) would be a better approach.

No cause Zelda's character design like this is ridiculous. Everything being so slow and unsafe while Sheik is 'fast but weak' is terrible character design. Balancing MetaKnight is heaps easier than this even in comparison.

Besides, Zelda / Impa allows for more options as dual characters. Cause Impa isn't Zelda herself. Attacks on the switch would make a LOT more sence for Impa this way.

 

[Bowserlick]

Well, I wouldn't mind Zelda/Impa. That could happen, with Impa just being a Sheik replacement. But I doubt Zelda losing a transformation will happen.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda / Impa can always be separate, while we get a Toon Zelda / Tetra combination? Don't think that's likely however...

I just want Sheik gone from Zelda, cause Zelda herself is so extremely mediocore with this playstyle. Both in Melee and Brawl. It's easier to see Bowser being fixed than her, cause at least Bowser has no Down B transformation. And Pokémon Trainer is fixed much easier by removing that damn stamina meter. I'd accept Impa both ways, but if they gonna ditch Sheik anyway, why not make Impa separate?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wonder why Diddy Kong is so confident that Sheik will be removed with absolutely no proof whatsoever.

 

[Oasis_S]

Same here. As the Zelda/Sheik combination has always been a very unbalanced one. And seeing as Sheik is likely to not return again in Zelda, and we have a good substitude now, it's a good time to finally make Zelda a standalone character. And Impa would have Sheik's style. And if Sheik would ever return to Zelda, she can be in the next new Smash. If Impa stays, she keeps her spot in Smash. If both won't return: scrap Impa, add a new Zelda character - and Zelda would still be a standalone character.

The problem with thinking this way, is that it's not how Sakurai thinks, which means you're going to be wrong. You can believe whatever you want about what would make Smash better, but if you're trying to actually PREDICT what will happen, the only way is to is interpret what Sakurai has done in previous games and what he has said to try and understand HOW HE THINKS.

You're looking at it from a competitive viewpoint, which Sakurai obviously does not hold. He's said a few things about what he thinks balance is and how he goes about doing it, and how from what he can tell everyone is balanced well enough. There is no indication whatsoever that he would feel Zelda and Sheik would need to be changed so drastically because of balancing issues. If anything it would be on the contrary. I guarantee you if they do get separated Sakurai would not cite that as the reason why. Not to mention the amount of people who actually complain about it is negligible (and they tend to have bad ideas anyhow).

I mean, if THEEEY had their way they'd remove anything charming from the game. "Oh, Pokemon Trainer's stamina thing isn't executed as well as I would like it to be, better separate them. The Ice Climbers can create infinite combos, so it would probably be best to have only one out on the stage. Pikmin are so random it would be best to pull out a certain one depending on the attack since some provide better effects than others making the rest useless. Lucario's aura mechanic BLAH BLAH. After all, it's for gameplay reasons."

 

[Vintage Creep]

Agreed, after two games its high time they got a bit more. Especially if other series are still expanding

For me id like to see:
Link (SS)
Zelda (SS)
Ganondorf (revamp)
Impa (SS)
Ghirahim

For me:
Link (SS/Toon alternate)
Zelda/Sheik (SS and TP alt)
Toon Ganondorf (revamp, WW)
Impa
Ghirahim

 

[FalKoopa]

For me:
Link (SS/Toon alternate)
Zelda/Sheik (SS and TP alt)
Toon Ganondorf (revamp, WW)
Impa
Ghirahim

Same here, though I'd replace Ghirahim with Tingle or Vaati.

 

[Big-Cat]

The problem with thinking this way, is that it's not how Sakurai thinks, which means you're going to be wrong. You can believe whatever you want about what would make Smash better, but if you're trying to actually PREDICT what will happen, the only way is to is interpret what Sakurai has done in previous games and what he has said to try and understand HOW HE THINKS.

You're looking at it from a competitive viewpoint, which Sakurai obviously does not hold. He's said a few things about what he thinks balance is and how he goes about doing it, and how from what he can tell everyone is balanced well enough. There is no indication whatsoever that he would feel Zelda and Sheik would need to be changed so drastically because of balancing issues. If anything it would be on the contrary. I guarantee you if they do get separated Sakurai would not cite that as the reason why. Not to mention the amount of people who actually complain about it is negligible (and they tend to have bad ideas anyhow).

I mean, if THEEEY had their way they'd remove anything charming from the game. "Oh, Pokemon Trainer's stamina thing isn't executed as well as I would like it to be, better separate them. The Ice Climbers can create infinite combos, so it would probably be best to have only one out on the stage. Pikmin are so random it would be best to pull out a certain one depending on the attack since some provide better effects than others making the rest useless. Lucario's aura mechanic BLAH BLAH. After all, it's for gameplay reasons."

You know what's funny about this whole "competitive viewpoint"? It's like we consider casual balancing to be lazy and superficial. I'm pretty sure that they legitimately try to balance it out in the deepest sense, even if Sakurai had this asinine idea to do all the balancing himself. It looks like he realized this starting with Uprising (even if he was balancing for two different matchup setups), and is finally getting it together with Smash 4.

As for removing these "charming" aspect of characters, there is still a way to go about making them charming without being bad/stupid in design. Pokemon Trainer can be like having a MvC or Skullgirls team in one character, and this idea is probably a lot easier to execute as the contrasts between the Pokemon aren't as polarizing as the Shelda design is. Ice Climbers just need to be redone from the get go. Something like Eddie from Guilty Gear (as Manly continually references) along with a mix of Millia's wakeup game would be a great base for a new Ice Climbers design.

Olimar is definitely one to think about. You can tell he's a character with an insanely high learning curve. One possibility is to deliberately make it where you can choose which Pikmin to pull and that the properties of them are better balanced out. I'm wondering if he should go for more of zoning approach in the next game or something.

Lucario's Aura is a really boring comeback mechanic, IMO. I think a move where he can power up certain moves would be a better implementation of this.

 

[FalKoopa]

Lucario's Aura is a really boring comeback mechanic, IMO. I think a move where he can power up certain moves would be a better implementation of this.

I think his aura power should scale more quickly and should not cap at any damage %. That would automatically make him better.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think his aura power should scale more quickly and should not cap at any damage %. That would automatically make him better.

But why give him a clutch mechanic? That doesn't make much sense unless you did something TvC's Baroque mechanic. You're being rewarded for taking damage (the main flack behind SF4's Ultras) with the current Aura. Compare this to TvC or even MvC3's Nova where you have to make the decision to sacrifice regenerative health for more damage or not.

 

[FalKoopa]

But why give him a clutch mechanic? That doesn't make much sense unless you did something TvC's Baroque mechanic. You're being rewarded for taking damage (the main flack behind SF4's Ultras) with the current Aura. Compare this to TvC or even MvC3's Nova where you have to make the decision to sacrifice regenerative health for more damage or not.

It gives unique feel to Lucario. As far as I know, he is the only high-risk high-reward character in the game. An aura-less Lucario would be a Wolf of Mewtwo.