Zelda Franchise Discussion

[DragonSniperNintendo]

You want furher proof on how latest release means bull****?

1. Brawl was based off of the Gamecube and GBA primarily
2. They had no time to change Ike to Radiant Dawn

 

[Frostwraith]

Such compelling evidence...

Spoiler

not.

 

[FalKoopa]

You want furher proof on how latest release means bull****?

We're talking about Zelda franchise here.

 

[Deleted member]

First you said to diddy that the trend of latest design appearances was bull****, with no proof.

Then you said to diddy that unless he had proof that the MAJOR CONSOLE RELEASES were the reason why the designs were used, he couldn't say it was fact.


What

...No proof? You seriously can't read?
I've given examples to why it was bull****.


Here, I'll lay it out for you so you don't miss it this time:

-Melee uses Ocarina of Time designs for Link and Zelda while Ganondorf has Spaceworld 2000 tech demo design.

-Latest game prior to Melee was the Oracle game set of Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. Link and Zelda DO NOT use their designs from this game, nor does Ganondorf use his scrapped design from it either.

-Latest "MAJOR CONSOLE GAME" prior to Melee was Majora's Mask. While Link's appearance in the game IS used in Melee, it is not his MAIN appearance, but rather the one used for another character: Young Link. Zelda's appearance (while just a flashback) was not used in Melee either. Can't say anything for Ganondorf, though by logic, he would use his pre-timeskip OoT design rather than the Spaceworld tech demo design if the "latest design" theory is accurate.

Get it now, or do I have to explain further?

 

[Frostwraith]

Much like how Link and Zelda use OoT designs in Melee, while Ganondorf uses the SpaceWorld 2000 design, it can happen something similar in SSB4, in which Link uses the Skyward Sword design, while Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf keep their TP or revert back to Ocarina's (because of the 3DS remake) designs.

 

[TheCreator]

...No proof? You seriously can't read?
I've given examples to why it was bull****.


Here, I'll lay it out for you so you don't miss it this time:

-Melee uses Ocarina of Time designs for Link and Zelda while Ganondorf has Spaceworld 2000 tech demo design.

-Latest game prior to Melee was the Oracle game set of Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. Link and Zelda DO NOT use their designs from this game, nor does Ganondorf use his scrapped design from it either.

-Latest "MAJOR CONSOLE GAME" prior to Melee was Majora's Mask. While Link's appearance in the game IS used in Melee, it is not his MAIN appearance, but rather the one used for another character: Young Link. Zelda's appearance (while just a flashback) was not used in Melee either. Can't say anything for Ganondorf, though by logic, he would use his pre-timeskip OoT design rather than the Spaceworld tech demo design if the "latest design" theory is accurate.

Get it now, or do I have to explain further?

I got it at first. I just failed to see how any of that would prove your point lol

However I do think that you may have gotten somewhere with that last point.
A pointless somewhere. But you got there lol

 

[TheCreator]

Much like how Link and Zelda use OoT designs in Melee, while Ganondorf uses the SpaceWorld 2000 design, it can happen something similar in SSB4, in which Link uses the Skyward Sword design, while Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf keep their TP or revert back to Ocarina's (because of the 3DS remake) designs.

Now THIS I could see happening. Them resorting back to OOT because of the remake.

 

[FalKoopa]

What came out of the discussion? We're back where we started. >_<

 

[Deleted member]

Much like how Link and Zelda use OoT designs in Melee, while Ganondorf uses the SpaceWorld 2000 design, it can happen something similar in SSB4, in which Link uses the Skyward Sword design, while Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf keep their TP or revert back to Ocarina's (because of the 3DS remake) designs.

Or alternatively, take the Wii U tech demo approach for Link, similar to Ganondorf in Melee.

 

[Curious Villager]

I suppose so, but they also got a CGI model of Skyward Sword Link anyway's so they can also go for that if they need a high definition model of him for smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They chose that model for Ganondorf most likely for it's sword, and the moveset they could make with it. Other than that, he doesn't look much different from OoT's Ganondorf.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Golden: Another possibility. And there's the possibility that they will make new models for Link, Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf from scratch since there are no HD models done already. Unless the new Wii U Zelda already has models that can be ported to SSB4, Sakurai's team may end up doing their own designs.

 

[Deleted member]

They chose that model for Ganondorf most likely for it's sword, and the moveset they could make with it. Other than that, he doesn't look much different from OoT's Ganondorf.

> Ganondorf added in Melee to be a clone of Captain Falcon.
> Design used because of sword.

Seems legit.

@Frostwraith: It's funny because MOST of Brawl's characters have an original design by Sakurai. Some are more pronounced than others, like Fox and Pit, while some just have a bit of minor tweaks like Olimar and Luigi (check the leg cuffs; he doesn't have them in the Mario games).

 

[Curious Villager]

> Ganondorf added in Melee to be a clone of Captain Falcon.
> Design used because of sword.

Seems legit.

You pretty much solved the puzzle of why they went for that model in Melee. He was an easy clone to make, thus they toke the model to make it even easier for themselves in order to buff the Melee roster.

And wasn't Fox based on how he looked in Starfox Command?

 

[Diddy Kong]

> Ganondorf added in Melee to be a clone of Captain Falcon.
> Design used because of sword.

Seems legit.

Well they probably already had the intention of adding him in. With the sword. But didn't start working on him till clones where made. I had seen some debug code stuff that has him holding the blade as well. So yeah, he was planned to have it, but they opt for Clonedorf cause of time restraints.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sakurai himself has admitted that Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Pichu and Roy were added at the last minute to buff up the roster and because they had similar body structures to other characters, making easy to make quick movesets for them. Thus, the clones were born.

 

[Deleted member]

Well they probably already had the intention of adding him in. With the sword. But didn't start working on him till clones where made. I had seen some debug code stuff that has him holding the blade as well. So yeah, he was planned to have it, but they opt for Clonedorf cause of time restraints.

......
That's not what Sakurai said on Ganondorf's page.

To paraphrase, Sakurai mentions that he was lucky to get in; if he hadn’t had such a similar body type to Captain Falcon, he wouldn’t have made it into Melee at all.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Link and Zelda for Skyward Sword

Ganondorf for Ocarina of Time 3D

Toon Link for Spirit Tracks and Phantom

5th Character, if there is one, would be Skyward Sword because of 25th Anniversary

 

[FalKoopa]

Link and Zelda for Skyward Sword

Ganondorf for Ocarina of Time 3D

Toon Link for Spirit Tracks and Phantom

5th Character, if there is one, would be Skyward Sword because of 25th Anniversary

Don't start that debate again. >_>

 

[Frostwraith]

And there's DragonSniper making assumptions... which is the worst thing one can do when speculating. That's not speculating, that is saying "I want X, therefore X will happen." In other words, bad argumentation.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well they probably already had the intention of adding him in. With the sword. But didn't start working on him till clones where made. I had seen some debug code stuff that has him holding the blade as well. So yeah, he was planned to have it, but they opt for Clonedorf cause of time restraints.

I think that had more to do with one of his victory poses where he swing's that sword more than actually being planned to use it in Melee. I believe you can do the same thing with Brawl Ganondorf's sword with a little bit of hacking...

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

And there's DragonSniper making assumptions... which is the worst thing one can do when speculating. That's not speculating, that is saying "I want X, therefore X will happen." In other words, bad argumentation.

Link and Zelda should be Skyward Sword though

THe others are debatable but it is fairly easy to have Toon Link be anything

 

[Diddy Kong]

......
That's not what Sakurai said on Ganondorf's page.

To paraphrase, Sakurai mentions that he was lucky to get in; if he hadn’t had such a similar body type to Captain Falcon, he wouldn’t have made it into Melee at all.

Doesn't mean they didn't make his model before he actually got 'revived' as a project? So many characters where planned, and Ganondorf was MASSIVELY requested. Good chance is they already wanted him in with the sword, but didn't have a moveset yet. Clones came around, and thus he was indeed: lucky to get in cause of similarities in body shape with Captain Falcon.

Why you hate Skyward Sword so badly though?

 

[TheCreator]

Link and Zelda for Skyward Sword

Ganondorf for Ocarina of Time 3D

Toon Link for Spirit Tracks and Phantom

5th Character, if there is one, it will be Tingle.

I think so too.
:D

 

[Deleted member]

Diddy. He bloody said Ganondorf wasn't even PLANNED. The ONLY reason Ganondorf became considered was due to the addition of clones.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why the sword victory poses then I wonder? And please post that he wasn't even planned?

 

[Deleted member]

What, too fricking lazy to look it up on his Melee Dojo page?

 

[3Bismyname]

I think so too.
:D

lol. personally though i really only see four characters possibly making the 5th spot. in no specific order Tingle, Toon Zelda, Toon Ganondorf, and Impa. personally id rather have Toon Zelda or Impa. every other character have a far lesser chance imo.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Skyward Sword will have the most influence though

 

[Curious Villager]

Tingle could probably represent his own series, so that would probably leave Toon Zelda/Tetra, Ghirahim and Impa.

btw. I love your sig 3Bismyname

 

[FalKoopa]

lol. personally though i really only see four characters possibly making the 5th spot. in no specific order Tingle, Toon Zelda, Toon Ganondorf, and Impa. personally id rather have Toon Zelda or Impa. every other character have a far lesser chance imo.

Are toon zelda and toon ganondorf really unique enough? They must be pallette swaps though

 

[Deleted member]

Here's the page:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1218/index.html

Here's the statement in question:

ガノンドロフはラッキーなキャラでした。
実はスマブラに登場させる予定はなかったのですが、都合の良い要件がいろいろとあったために参戦が決まりました。
（モデルの提供を受けられていたとか、特徴がはっきりとしていたとか、身体のバランスがキャプテンファルコンと同程度だとか、なにより人気が高かったとか

Here's the translation on Google:

Ganondorf was lucky character.
I did not plan to appear in Smash Bros. In fact, when I decided to compete because they have some requirements for your convenience.
(Or had been subject to the provision of models, features or had been clear, but about the same as Captain Falcon or the balance of the body, was popular or anything else)

 

[Diddy Kong]

What, too fricking lazy to look it up on his Melee Dojo page?

No. Just can't read Japanese.

Also, look at his Melee throphy when clearing classic mode:

It's not too far off from how he looks in Smash right? Who's even to say he WAS styled after the demo, appart form the sword? It might as well have been Ocarina of Time. He doesn't have long hair here either.

 

[Curious Villager]

Are toon zelda and toon ganondorf really unique enough? They must be pallette swaps though

I think I'd be fine with Toon Zelda having her own spot just so long as Tetra comes along with her. I don't think she would work well as an alternate due to different body shapes and all.

 

[3Bismyname]

Are toon zelda and toon ganondorf really unique enough? They must be pallette swaps though

sure they can be different enough. and i really dont see them working as pallet swaps.

@Dragonsniper
not necesarily. we could just get a second toon character to balance out the 2 different types of Zelda games. and i did say Impa was a possibility.

oh and thanks Kiwi

 

[Diddy Kong]

For the record, I think I prefer long hair Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

Demo Ganondorf didn't have long hair either. ONLY final battle OoT Ganondorf had long hair.
Melee Ganondorf has the same cape as Demo Ganondorf. OoT Ganondorf's cape was red and didn't have the same design on it.
OoT Ganondorf has spikes on his boots and shoulder armor. Demo (and Melee) Ganondorf does not.

Seriously, you don't even REMEMBER what Demo Ganondorf looked like, do you?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here is OoT Ganondorf for comparison.

Here is the Space World Demo Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

And to bring it full circle, Melee Ganondorf.

Notice how he looks more like the latter two images than the first two.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Aside from the spikes, I see nearly no difference anyway.