Zamus - because the matchup thread is dead

[Squidster]

It's listed as 60-40 our favor, just wanna spur discussion about it.

Thoughts:
Cons
1) Being pressured to the edge via side b and Dsmash is a pain in the ***
2) Can she down b out of tilt lock?
3) Chain is less useful
4) She's hard to land a kill move on ._.

Pros
1) Needles are too good
2) Out tilt her! Dsmash and side b seem to be what she has on us
3) Edge guarding can be hit or miss. Down b can make her hard to edgeguard but if you get her far enough tether is useless
4) Once you get used to the range of her attacks she can be punished consistently

thoughts / tips?

 

[-Mars-]

Her jab is way fast, it comes out on frame 1 but you can shield between the second and third jabs so most Zamus players will cancel to a dtilt or an utilt.

Her side b is a nice approach option and it's great for spacing. It will be decayed a lot because of the amount of usage so it won't be their primary kill move. Bair is probably her best kill move............sweetspotted it's actually pretty powerful. Her shorthop is very high so the plasma whip is the most common approach.......can even be used defensively.

Zamus reminds me a lot of Sheik with the ability to combo, speed, edgeguarding, and lack of kill power.

 

[Squidster]

Gotta love getting by Dsmash.... and eating a combo for 45% because of it @.@

 

[D1RE]

My tips of the bat is that the dsmash, although a pain, isn't the worst move to evade once you get used to it. She's very easy to gimp off-stage in my oppinion (but that just might be my too agressive off-stage gimping getting myself killed in the process). Apart from that I agree on your points. I can't really see that she have any good killing moves?

 

[Tristan_win]

It's listed as 60-40 our favor, just wanna spur discussion about it.

Thoughts:
Cons
1) Being pressured to the edge via side b and Dsmash is a pain in the ***
As noobish as this may sound rolling toward Zamus is acturlly a good idea at times because of her dsmash only hitting in front of her and because her short hop is so high
2) Can she down b out of tilt lock?
No the chain ***** Zamus suit off
3) Chain is less useful
Jump to chain + edge guard = next to impossible for zamus to recover since the chain can interrupts her tether recovery before she reaches the stage ledge....Unless tether recoveries do in fact get invincible frames before they reach the edge. I've stop a few Zamus recories using the chain but not all, maybe I'm just not moving the chain fast enough ~shrugs~
4) She's hard to land a kill move on ._.
Not really, just approach her weak defensive game and ****.

Pros
1) Needles are too good
To true, but watch out for that **** side B as if she short hop approach into a side B she will be able to hit you before you even throw your needles at mid distance. Needles are great for this fight but you have to watch out for her short hop.
2) Out tilt her! Dsmash and side b seem to be what she has on us
Dsmash is how she combos and side B is how she kills and pressures. However the side B has noticeable start up time and the dsmash range although misleading doesn't hit behind zamus like at all. With all seriousness if you get right behind zamus she is limited to only her tilts and running away which don't combo or do much damage...well beside the downward ftilt it does 9% (^^ I was the one who discovered that before I realize sheik was better then Zamus har har har).
3) Edge guarding can be hit or miss. Down b can make her hard to edgeguard but if you get her far enough tether is useless
Chain beats her down B and edge guarding zamus isn't hard at all but I fight a good zamus player often so maybe I'm just use to it.
4) Once you get used to the range of her attacks she can be punished consistently
Yes, nothing better then perfectly spacing yourself for a dacus after you predict the short hop into side B only to enter the "dead zone" just as the moves starts.

thoughts / tips?

^^' Back to dead space

Edit: Oh, Zamus is better overall then Sheik when she still has her items, her gliding toss is much better and odds are the zamus player will also have a lot more experience using them then you. This mostly means taking heavy damage at the beginning or completely ruining your whole first stock mindset.

The way I get around this completely is as soon as the match starts or maybe a couple of seconds in I will rush toward the edge and tether hang. She can't do anything to you if your smart about when you retract to the edge. It works...most of the time I also do the jump from ledge as soon as I get up ~bad habit~ but zamus can't combo you in the air outside of the up B into bair or uair.

 

[Squidster]

Dsmash -> Bair
Dsmash -> whatever ._.
side B if she's careful not to stale it too much
down b
edgeguarding

She does indeed not have many killmoves and relies on you to **** up before she can kill you

edit - Tristan ninja posted at the same time as me.

useful info, thanks, i'll try the chain on the recovering thing.
So she can't down b tilt lock? I think i was just messing up anyways, didn't play very long.

 

[ADHD]

You can just go extremely aggressive and give zamus a hard time, it's not like she can do alot to get you away. If you're careful you won't get dsmashed either, and just be cautious about gimping her because the kick thing can be annoying.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Zamus has to rely on screw ups, tight Shiek players won't lose. Constant pressure is good, In my experience you can pretty much go MK on there *****. Side B and D Smash are going to spammed, so know what you can about them. You should never really be above her, our D Air is awful and she has a mean U SMash and Up B when you're up there.

First stock **** is nasty, but when you used to play Diddy you should know how to handle items almost as well as them. Chain edge hogging smartly also helps you get through, armour only ***** through YOUR own inexperience.

You can get some quick kills through edgeguard too if you know her recovery well, though don't assume because its a tether it's bad.

 

[ph00tbag]

A Sheik that knows how to gimp is frustrating as hell. Also, rolling against ZSS is generally not as good an idea as Tristan is suggesting, especially if she's dsmashing, because dsmash is very low on the lag, so she can generally punish rolls around her very effectively if she's paying attention. Rolling past Plasma Whip is also a bad idea because of jab and dtilt.

 

[Blad01]

ZSS is extremely dangerous when you didn't enter his range... Her forward B, stun gun, Down Smash, Grab outrange us... But when you are at close-combat, Sheik has probably the advantage (Even though ZSS's Up Tilt is frustrating...).

Oh and yes, gimping ZSS is essential... But personnaly, her down B scares me... :/ Any tips ?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Don't be scared of Down B, that's some laggy shizzle, they won't use the spike when recovering.

 

[Snakeee]

"She does indeed not have many killmoves and relies on you to **** up before she can kill you"
Not true, she has above average kill power.

And she can in fact down B out of f-tilt lock.
Also rolling is risky against her because a d-smash or grab can punish that with ease.

I already gave my evaluation of the match up for the most part so I'll just correct little things like that.

 

[The Great Leon]

imo her ground game is pretty weak. weak enought to make me drop the char.
shes got side b and d smash. and 1 frame jab. but a ****ty sheild grab.
needle from extreme distance. sheild from side b distance. dont get dsmashed, but if you do spam like crazy. quite a few times i break out before they're ready for me to.

down b does have invuln so watchout for that, but if you expect it its not too hard to chase

but gg suit peices lol

e. you can footstool someone while theyre on a ledge or hanging from a tether, so good zss will be harder to gimp (see fadedimage)

 

[Deception]

ZSS is extremely dangerous when you didn't enter his range... His forward B, stun gun, Down Smash, Grab outrange us... But when you are at close-combat, Sheik has probably the advantage (Even though ZSS's Up Tilt is frustrating...).

Oh and yes, gimping ZSS is essential... But personnaly, her down B scares me... :/ Any tips ?

His?

Zamus relies on good spacing, if a Zamus player keeps Sheik at bay with her whip and armor pieces, she had Sheik's number.

 

[Tezmata]

I think many players don't realize how awesome ZSS's off-stage game is and will probably be punished for it. Sheik's is superior of course, but don't think for a second that "Oh, ZSS relies on tether so that's a minus stock" when she's off the stage. Her Side-B comes out faster than yours and reaches much, much further, so keep the chain ledgehogging to a minimum. Keep in mind also that she is much more likely to footstool you with a Down-B than to spike you, since it gives her the incredible jump distance. In all honesty, don't try to gimp her unless you know her recovery very well; it's much different from any other character's.

Oh, and don't be above her. Ever. Especially in the air. But ever.

A lot of you seem to be super frightened of Side-B and D-Smash. Don't be. They're great moves, but ZSS mains that spam them are more likely to be punished than receive any real benefit (plus, Side-B has a super obvious start-up). Spot-dodge (don't roll) and shoot single needles to disrupt it.

I main ZSS and think that this match-up isn't is hard as most of you make it out to be. You've got a pretty strong upper hand, but don't think that means you'll gimp her for every kill.

 

[Tristan_win]

hmmm, if you ask me the Sheik vs Zamus match up is pretty even and I'm not going to say anymore until I fight Snakeee again.

 

[demodemo]

yeah, i posted about this in the matchup thread, i believe this is even for the msot part too, but after snake's post i was convinced otherwise..

however, i am not sure why all you have so much trouble gimping her recovery. even though it is pretty **** good, i can usually get her at a mean angle off stage (from a dsmash or a fair) and successfully edgeguard.

you know all of the things zamus is going to do, so you can predict it. i like to hang from the edge off of a tether,and when i see the start up frames of the side B, i press A to get my invincibility frames, which can even protect you from the first couple of hits of the her up b (she will most likely do this if sideb fails and shes below the stage) but you should get up on the ledge before the last hits connect. i have jumped out of the range of the tether and (while zamus is hanging) gimped her before she could even get to the edge. it just takes a lot of experience before gimping her reocvery isnt too hard. even just timing a normal edgehog works if you do it by surprise..

keep in mind that side b and up b generally have a lot of lag when they come out during an attempted tether. edghogging one usually (USUALLY) makes another impossible, but this is rare so you must abuse edge frames or even drop down for a fair.