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Your greatest competitive concerns for Ultimate

TheBuzzSaw

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My biggest competitive concern for Smash Ultimate has nothing to do with characters. It's about stages.

The short version is that I'm sick to death of Smashville and want some variety.

The long version is that I think the Smash community has collectively gotten used to small stage lists and I'm worried there will be pushback against the hazard toggle giving us potentially 20+ perfectly good stages based on nothing more than the number. I've seen a number of comments on the internet (both here and elsewhere) unironically profess a belief that having a large number of legal stages is somehow bad for the game. Meanwhile we're on the third Smash game in a row with Smashville available as a stage and I fully intend to strike it whenever I get a chance because there's such a thing as being too deep in your comfort zone, you know?
Actually, I heard a number of high profile community members bring up the wonderful idea of seasonal stages. It's a win/win for everyone. Admittedly, there is benefit to keeping the selection small. (It makes striking meaningful.) However, by having a rotating set, we'll see many great stages throughout the year. I don't think we'll see nearly as aggressive of bans this time around. That hazard toggle is a miracle all its own.
 

Galgatha

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Actually, I heard a number of high profile community members bring up the wonderful idea of seasonal stages. It's a win/win for everyone. Admittedly, there is benefit to keeping the selection small. (It makes striking meaningful.) However, by having a rotating set, we'll see many great stages throughout the year. I don't think we'll see nearly as aggressive of bans this time around. That hazard toggle is a miracle all its own.
Seasons are a terrible idea. What committee would dwcide on the stages used per season? What is major TOs disagreed and just went their own ?

Get rid of striking all together and tilize a random stage selection + perma-set bans. Much better solution which takes advantage of the large amount of possible legal stages.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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Seasons are a terrible idea. What committee would dwcide on the stages used per season? What is major TOs disagreed and just went their own ?

Get rid of striking all together and tilize a random stage selection + perma-set bans. Much better solution which takes advantage of the large amount of possible legal stages.
Sounds like a non-issue. So, stages vary by region at times. As long as everyone agrees on the master list, what's the harm?

If that many stages are constantly legal, bans/strikes are kinda pointless as there is likely a similar stage to replace the banned one. The community moved away from random stage selection for a reason.
 

meleebrawler

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...Ehhh. I’m not impressed. He looks like a stereotypical Melee/Brawl heavy who doesn’t really have anything.

Except he doesn’t even seem heavy, considering he died to a half charged (or what used to be half charged) Inkling Fsmash and some other things that didn’t seem powerful.
We said the same about Mac and look what he became. Ridley looks like a shoe in for low tier.
Besides the fact that Ridley is brand new and no one is playing him optimally, I feel we're not looking at the whole picture here. Yes, on the surface he
doesn't seem to have any single massive strength that is allegedly necessary for a heavy to compete... but that's also because, other than his size, the usual downsides to his archetype are far less pronounced. He's fast on the ground and decently mobile in the air, and most importantly, almost none of his normals are slow. Dsmash is the only real laggy offender, the rest are quick enough to let him keep up with faster characters, and this along with good, disjointed reach on most moves puts his neutral far above the rest of the heavies. It does come at the cost of generally reduced KO power, and admittedly seems to lack solid confirms in this regard, but he still has good options with a tried-and-true bair kick, fast and wide-reaching uair and frighteningly powerful-for-their-speed fsmash and dsmash.

His specials are where the risk lies in his moveset. They can all backfire or otherwise leave Ridley open if used improperly, but have great reward when they do land. The fire breath, though a bit too slow to be safe in neutral, puts huge pressure on landing or recovering opponents. The sliding grab grants big positional advantage both on-stage or off. Up b is standard, but hits hard. Between it, his nair and side b dunking, this is a guy you really have to respect off stage. Down b, well... it speaks for itself. Not likely to be used much, but a scary punish nonetheless.

I have a hard time seeing this character being bad with the varied tools he has. Not the best by any means, but he can certainly compete.
 
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ParanoidDrone

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Actually, I heard a number of high profile community members bring up the wonderful idea of seasonal stages. It's a win/win for everyone. Admittedly, there is benefit to keeping the selection small. (It makes striking meaningful.) However, by having a rotating set, we'll see many great stages throughout the year. I don't think we'll see nearly as aggressive of bans this time around. That hazard toggle is a miracle all its own.
I worry that seasonal stage lists would cause their own set of issues. For example:
  • How long is a season?
  • Which stages are allowed for a season?
  • How will the stages for a season be chosen?
  • For characters who are particularly sensitive to stage selection (e.g. Little Mac), how can we ensure the seasonal lists are still fair?
  • Would tier lists assume all stages are allowed? If so, then why would we not play with all stages?
  • Is there some "governing body" that will oversee all of this for as long as the seasonal thing lasts, or will it be in the hands of the players and scenes?
  • If the latter, what's stopping the more famous players and bigger scenes from seizing de facto control over it all?
It just sounds like it would turn into a horrifyingly political process and I'm not sure I want that in Smash.
 
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TheBuzzSaw

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I worry that seasonal stage lists would cause their own set of issues. For example:
  • How long is a season?
  • Which stages are allowed for a season?
  • How will the stages for a season be chosen?
  • For characters who are particularly sensitive to stage selection (e.g. Little Mac), how can we ensure the seasonal lists are still fair?
  • Would tier lists assume all stages are allowed? If so, then why would we not play with all stages?
  • Is there some "governing body" that will oversee all of this for as long as the seasonal thing lasts, or will it be in the hands of the players and scenes?
  • If the latter, what's stopping the more famous players and bigger scenes from seizing de facto control over it all?
It just sounds like it would turn into a horrifyingly political process and I'm not sure I want that in Smash.
These aren't issues. They're just... questions. The community has been pretty good at agreeing on rule sets. There is always disagreement. (The 2-stock vs 3-stock debate raged on for quite a while.) Things settle down. As for how stages will be picked, I'm sure we can form a relatively balanced formula for what structure stages need to have for each seasonal pool.

Tier lists would account for all stages. Characters that perform well regardless of season are obviously better than those who do not. Just giving up and allowing all legal stages brings its own problems. I'd rather have one season where Little Mac is godly than just have the full set there nerfing him constantly.

As for your latter questions, those are pretty dark assumptions. Is that happening now? We have a unified rule set, and regions are free to follow or ignore those rules. Most tend to follow it.
 

**Gilgamesh**

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Besides the fact that Ridley is brand new and no one is playing him optimally, I feel we're not looking at the whole picture here. Yes, on the surface he
doesn't seem to have any single massive strength that is allegedly necessary for a heavy to compete... but that's also because, other than his size, the usual downsides to his archetype are far less pronounced. He's fast on the ground and decently mobile in the air, and most importantly, almost none of his normals are slow. Dsmash is the only real laggy offender, the rest are quick enough to let him keep up with faster characters, and this along with good, disjointed reach on most moves puts his neutral far above the rest of the heavies. It does come at the cost of generally reduced KO power, and admittedly seems to lack solid confirms in this regard, but he still has good options with a tried-and-true bair kick, fast and wide-reaching uair and frighteningly powerful-for-their-speed fsmash and dsmash.

His specials are where the risk lies in his moveset. They can all backfire or otherwise leave Ridley open if used improperly, but have great reward when they do land. The fire breath, though a bit too slow to be safe in neutral, puts huge pressure on landing or recovering opponents. The sliding grab grants big positional advantage both on-stage or off. Up b is standard, but hits hard. Between it, his nair and side b dunking, this is a guy you really have to respect off stage. Down b, well... it speaks for itself. Not likely to be used much, but a scary punish nonetheless.

I have a hard time seeing this character being bad with the varied tools he has. Not the best by any means, but he can certainly compete.
No character with a large hurtbox as the size of Ridley has been viable in Smash ever. Ridley will at best be a counter-pick character
 

Frihetsanka

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Actually, I heard a number of high profile community members bring up the wonderful idea of seasonal stages. It's a win/win for everyone.
There are some merits to the idea, there are several possible issues, one of the major ones being that this could affect some characters significantly (they might be significantly weaker in certain seasons).

I still like having 5 starters and 4-5 counterpicks. We'd still have much more stage variety compared to Smash 4 (where we essentially have 5 legal stages). Maybe something like 3 bans, Dave's Stupid Rule, 7 counterpicks would work too. That would give us 12 legal stages, as opposed to 5 (Dream Land is essentially an Echo Stage of Battlefield).
 

MaestroDavros

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I feel that stage striking actually is the #1 road block to having more than a small number of stages legal. Plus it seems a large reason why people don't want too many legal stages is because striking would take too long.

Basically if we want more than 5-7 stages legal, we need to either completely rework how stage striking works, or find some other way to determine stages that fits better with a larger legal stage list.
 

Frihetsanka

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Stage striking isn't much of an issue if we stick to 5 starters + X counter-picks. Other games seem to be able to handle 9-10 legal stages with 5 as starters and the rest as counter-picks, so I don't see why Smash Ultimate couldn't. Regarding stage-hazards, I wonder if it would be best to turn them on or off on a case-by-case basis, or just always turn them off? I'm leaning towards the latter for a few reasons: It would be easy to implement, easy to teach people ("Stage hazards are always off" is much easier than "Stage hazards are on on the following stages and off on the following stages"), and would remove discussion on whether a stage should have its hazards on or off. One problem could be Smashville, I suppose, although perhaps hazardless Smashville would still have a moving platform and it would just remove the balloon? We'll see, I suppose, but either way I think it's worth considering.
 

meleebrawler

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No character with a large hurtbox as the size of Ridley has been viable in Smash ever. Ridley will at best be a counter-pick character
That's a bit of a gross oversimplification. Size was the least of their problems, the main thing holding them back was poor mobility and frame data, neither
of which Ridley truly suffers from.
 

**Gilgamesh**

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Donkey Kong and King Dedede was counter-pick characters at best and King Dedede became irrelevant as Meta Knight / Icies became supreme in Brawl anyway. DK gets thrashed in Smash 4 by Bayonetta, Rosalina, Zero Suit Samus, Sonic, Ryu and loses to many more characters, When was the last time a solo or close to solo Donkey Kong/ King Dedede ever gotten into a top 16 / top 8 in any national tournament? if ever. I was referring to Top Tier viability for heavies anyway; but they're not even prevalent at higher level to any significant degree due to their aforementioned weaknesses. Counter-Pick at best for Donkey Kong. Did I mention Bayonetta ?

You should alraedy know that Dedede was not a legit option in brawl as EVERYONE was playing Meta Knight. In fact Dedede got HARD countered by Meta Knight and Ice Climbers, countered by Falco, Pikachu, and Olimar, and loses to ZSS and DIddy Kong according to his Matchup Chart.. SIr, that's not viable at all. Just because Dedede thrashes the lower tiers in Brawl or was the meme of chain-grabs does not make him good. He still gets thrashed by nearly 85% of the competitive viable characters in the Brawl Meta. (MK, Olimar, DIddy Kong, Ice Climbers, ZSS, Pikachu, Falco).

At lower levels of play many fighter become viable; this is true in any fighting game whatsoever; however spectators are at their highest when top level players are in attendance.

Ridley suffrs from a huge hurtbox which means a ton of combos and combo extenders will work on him while it doesn't work on other characters. This is the main reason why heavies have such a awful time against ZSS / Bayonetta and any other combo heavy character. They take a ton of damage for losing one interaction and are generally easier to kill due to combo's working when they shoudn't or just due to the ease of hitting them in neutral with a strong neutral option (ZSS Bair / Bayo Bar / Diddy Kong banana -> up-smash / dtilt -> up-smash). Kill confirms becomes much easier on characters with huge hurtboxes; this is simply the truth and a major factor as to why they lose to Top Tiers.
 
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DunnoBro

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Ehhh, I disagree the main issue with heavies is the amount of true kill confirms which work on them specifically, at least in smash 4. There's plenty of matchups which are still bad without any extra combos enabled. (Diddy doesn't kill confirm on them notably better than any other character, honestly)

Even ignoring their size... They're just... Bad.

They all have frame 4 air dodges for some reason, which exacerbates of the issue of more true combos. Their neutrals suck. Their disadvantage sucks. (Not just while getting comboed) Recoveries aren't great either, even D3's.

Ridley however, has THREE landing mix-ups. (Upspecial, side special, dair) One of them a command grab. Multiple jumps. His neutral seems to have some potential with fireball, and I dunno. I'm kinda optimistic about him.
 

MarioMeteor

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You gonna actually say something? Or just throw out snide remarks from the dark without substantiating your comment?
I mean, the snide remark kind of speaks for itself, doesn’t it? Obviously it means that I don’t think this is the case, and that this community is laughably bad at coming to consensus.
 

meleebrawler

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Ehhh, I disagree the main issue with heavies is the amount of true kill confirms which work on them specifically, at least in smash 4. There's plenty of matchups which are still bad without any extra combos enabled. (Diddy doesn't kill confirm on them notably better than any other character, honestly)

Even ignoring their size... They're just... Bad.

They all have frame 4 air dodges for some reason, which exacerbates of the issue of more true combos. Their neutrals suck. Their disadvantage sucks. (Not just while getting comboed) Recoveries aren't great either, even D3's.

Ridley however, has THREE landing mix-ups. (Upspecial, side special, dair) One of them a command grab. Multiple jumps. His neutral seems to have some potential with fireball, and I dunno. I'm kinda optimistic about him.
Well, the projectile is a frame 20+ move at minimum and can backfire if anything hits him in the face during startup. It doesn't exactly look safe
in neutral against most of the cast, but the huge amount of space covered by a charged stream and downward trajectory will make it killer for catching landings and edgeguarding.

What will make his neutral solid is his great frame data on his normals and good speed on all fronts.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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I mean, the snide remark kind of speaks for itself, doesn’t it? Obviously it means that I don’t think this is the case, and that this community is laughably bad at coming to consensus.
Compared to what other communities? How much fragmentation is there in our rule set? What regions diverge from the common rule set in significant ways? Sure, there's lots of arguing leading up to the official rule set, but once it's out, the community generally falls in line. The biggest counter culture move I'm aware of is that upcoming tournament that will ban Lylat and Bayo.
 

MarioMeteor

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Sure, there's lots of arguing leading up to the official rule set, but once it's out, the community generally falls in line.
It’s actually this right here what made me say that. “Falling in line” isn’t what I would consider coming to a consensus. It’s more along the lines of a group of self-important people create an arbitrary ruleset and label it “official.”

Maybe I’m seeing shadows in the dark, but it doesn’t seem like the community has really agreed on much concerning these games, just accepted that these “official” rules are inevitably going to become the standard.
 

Zerp

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These aren't issues. They're just... questions. The community has been pretty good at agreeing on rule sets. There is always disagreement. (The 2-stock vs 3-stock debate raged on for quite a while.) Things settle down. As for how stages will be picked, I'm sure we can form a relatively balanced formula for what structure stages need to have for each seasonal pool.
Eh, I can't agree with that. It's true most everyone eventually falls in line with one ruleset, but it's less for idealistic purposes or truly agreeing that one ruleset is the best one, and more for practicality, players want to be able to practice for big events, and if you don't have the same ruleset as the big events in the region, they either A. might not go because the practice will be inadequate or B. the event may not even count for the regional PR if it differs to much from the norm, both of which disincentivize using opposing rulesets with a few exceptions (Mainly stuff like banning Doubles Cloud that a vast majority thinks should happen). Then of course you'll also have the big regionals deciding to follow the biggest tournaments even outside of region because they don't want their region's players to be ill-prepared for those events. Also, there was that big huge poll in which the majority voted to legalize Guest XXXX Miis, and numerous other polls after that pointing in favor of Guest XXXX over Guest 1111 (Source Ctrl + F or find "The Public Opinion on Miis in Smash 4 " and read from there), but Guest 1111 is still the standard because the ruleset committee didn't/doesn't agree with those players' opinions.

What I suspect will happen is that there'll be intense debates on what to do with the stages, and regardless of whether or not it's popular or not, some big tournament will choose one of these, and many smaller locals and regionals will follow suit, but this won't change people's opinions on it, there will be some that love the ruleset, and some who hate it, but I doubt there will ever be a above 70% majority that agrees on one ruleset being best, most people will follow one, but I don't think that's truly agreeing.
 
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MarioMeteor

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Eh, I can't agree with that. It's true most everyone eventually falls in line with one ruleset, but it's less for idealistic purposes or truly agreeing that one ruleset is the best one, and more for practicality, players want to be able to practice for big events, and if you don't have the same ruleset as the big events in the region, they either A. might not go because the practice will be inadequate or B. the event may not even count for the regional PR if it differs to much from the norm, both of which disincentivize using opposing rulesets with a few exceptions (Mainly stuff like banning Doubles Cloud that a vast majority thinks should happen). Then of course you'll also have the big regionals deciding to follow the biggest tournaments even outside of region because they don't want their region's players to be ill-prepared for those events. Also, there was that big huge poll in which the majority voted to legalize Guest XXXX Miis, and numerous other polls after that pointing in favor of Guest XXXX over Guest 1111, but Guest 1111 is still the standard because the ruleset committee didn't/doesn't agree with those players' opinions. (Source Ctrl + F or find "The Public Opinion on Miis in Smash 4 " and read from there)

What I suspect will happen is that there'll be intense debates on what to do with the stages, and regardless of whether or not it's popular or not, some big tournament will choose one of these, and many smaller locals and regionals will follow suit, but this won't change people's opinions on it, there will be some that love the ruleset, and some who hate it, I doubt there will ever be a above 70% majority that agrees on one ruleset being best, most people will follow one, but I don't think that's truly agreeing.
Pretty much what I wanted to say but elaborated on much better.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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Obviously, we'd all love a world where we all 100% agreed on the rule set and supported it fully. We'll just have to settle for an imperfect world where we disagree but at least prefer unity over being right. Would you honestly rather have each local scene stick it to the man by running unique stage selection, character bans, stock counts, etc.? Even if players have dissenting opinions, they know better than to become a TO and purposely fracture their local scene just to perpetuate their preferences.

Regardless of how happy everyone is with the rule set, my point stands that we tend to agree on it.
 
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My biggest concern is the balloon knockback. I mean, it looks cool from a spectator point of view, but I got a bit of time with the demo, and it felt pretty weird trying to get accustomed with it. I hope it gets toned down just a wee bit, though I could still deal with it otherwise.

Aside from that, I have no magor complaints with the engine so far. It feels smooth all in all. (Plus, rage only kicks in when you're close to dying, which feels more fair and is a magor plus to me). I do wish we could wavedash (I remember getting so hyped seeing directional air dodges in the direct, then getting so crushed when people found out you can't wavedash) and that hitstun cancelling gets removed, but they're just small personal preferences, and I can live just fine without them.
 
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Necro'lic

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Ehhh, I disagree the main issue with heavies is the amount of true kill confirms which work on them specifically, at least in smash 4. There's plenty of matchups which are still bad without any extra combos enabled. (Diddy doesn't kill confirm on them notably better than any other character, honestly)

Even ignoring their size... They're just... Bad.

They all have frame 4 air dodges for some reason, which exacerbates of the issue of more true combos. Their neutrals suck. Their disadvantage sucks. (Not just while getting comboed) Recoveries aren't great either, even D3's.

Ridley however, has THREE landing mix-ups. (Upspecial, side special, dair) One of them a command grab. Multiple jumps. His neutral seems to have some potential with fireball, and I dunno. I'm kinda optimistic about him.
Thank you. I hate people that say that heavies can't be good just based on size. It's like they think it's impossible because fighting game developers are terrible at balancing their games.
 

DunnoBro

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Well, the projectile is a frame 20+ move at minimum and can backfire if anything hits him in the face during startup. It doesn't exactly look safe
in neutral against most of the cast, but the huge amount of space covered by a charged stream and downward trajectory will make it killer for catching landings and edgeguarding.

What will make his neutral solid is his great frame data on his normals and good speed on all fronts.
It's certainly not a universal tool, but it does work with Ridley's kit. (Ground pressure and command grabs)

Since the natural defense would be jumping and aerialing, and fireball would force an approach. It's similar to Mario Fireball, or Haduken in it's niche but necessary useage.

The main issue with moves of that category is the lack of reward, but If it has mix-ups or even confirms into his command grab/dash attack, I definitely am optimistic about his neutral.
 

spinalwolf

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knockback, hitstun, landing lag, and kill moves all need a huge re-work. sakurai should strive to make something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAsfM4cqt1o
namco's smash games lack "fluidity" whether its momentum or physics they just feel completely off and slow. there is no way to approach or play the game the way a smash game was meant to be played
You do realize landing lag in Ultimate is the equivalent to L-cancelled landing lag in Melee right?
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I've seen some people say that balloon knockback is bad but no one explains why. I'm curious because I haven't tried the game but some people have expressed disdain over that mechanic without going into detail. Would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind those opinions, otherwise I think the reason people may say that is because it's different from what they've known until now and are not used to it yet. If it's worth something, Kurogane Hammer seems to be ok with it.
Frankly doubt is as bad as tripping as someone phrased it.
 
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jwillenn

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training mode looks promising but they better have hitboxes or I swear.
I feel like I've got my hopes up too high for the training mode. When the launch trajectories display option was revealed, I took it as a tease that BIG things are in development for this mode. There's much I want to see, but sitting at the top of my wishlist are tools to expedite the building of simulations for the full range of combat scenarios. For example, if all of Evo 2019's gameplay was submitted to Ultimate's Replay Channel, every player could grab that data and set up training modules quickly and easily without needing to record all of the dummy's actions.

Have a Training Challenge Mode in which players can put themselves in tons of scenarios (beginner to high level) against a training dummy that runs the sequences that you'd otherwise need to record yourself to practice against. TONS of situations players are instantly placed in, from general to match up specific! I mean, THAT would be my "single player mode". :laugh: Obviously these challenges come from the developer and they would be updated periodically. BUT (and here's where it gets juicy), going even more complex, allow players to also import AND modify match replay segments into Custom Training Challenges. "What if my or that person's opponent had done this instead? What should my or that player's response in that situation have been?" You can choose parts to keep as is and modify the situation as you see fit.
 

Swamp Sensei

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My biggest concern is that community infighting.

If Smash games could stop going for each other's throats that'd be great.
 

Admiral Pit

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-Balance
This will always be a problem with me. I know it'll be much harder given the larger roster, but with patches like in s4... well I hope... hopefully we will see balance in improving characters that need it and nerfing the absurd. As someone said earlier though, I hope they show what the changes are rather than make us check for ourselves. Now, if people agree that a character is way too absurd, like Brawl MK levels of absurd, I hope that one day the community won't be shy about banning said character temporarily, especially if a patch doesn't come fast enough and time doesn't help.
Under this, I also hope my characters are at least decent, and that includes making sure Palu isn't subpar anymore. I'm at least confident in Pit's and Bowser's kit.

-Different Tier Events
Even though I will not participate any of the offline routines, but considering the large roster and the inevitable tier routine, I'd like to see events where lower tier characters get their own event and spotlight, in case they never could compete with the higher ups, like when Low tier events existed for Brawl before. Some of those could be fun to watch too.

-Stages
Well, it's not my biggest concern, but I just hope we have a good stage pool to choose from, because honestly all the Smashville gets boring. I'd want to see more than just SV, TnC, BF, and FD be used, and with over 100 stages, we surely would be able to get some kinda decent stage list to use, right? I'm at least glad that there's a "Hazards off" option which could permit new stages to see the light without the need of relying on BF/FD versions of stages.

Not sure what else I'd want atm besides more community harmony with less chaos, but I know that may not be likely. Actually regarding 1v1s, if we're able to turn off the extra damage thing or not depending on how powerful some characters are with it on or off.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,460
People banning Miis but not touching to broken characters.
 

SmashBro99

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,199
Location
CT.
3DS FC
4957-2747-2945
:ultkrool: is gonna be ass :( but so will :ultridley:

I'm actually not worried about :ultbayonetta:, sure she'll always have good moves, but they have more time to balance her this time around, she was revealed, tweaked a little then left alone, which was horrible for Smash4, shouldn't be the case here.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
My greatest competitive concern is that the e-sports scene wont take this game intensely enough.
My second greatest competitive concern is that the competitive scene won't allow this game to be what it is, instead of what Melee or any other Smash Game was.
 

TheTrueBrawler

Smash Demon
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
817
Location
Mystery
I'm not going to give up on Smash Ultimate because of this, but as people have stated, KOs off the top having an RNG factor was an idea as good as the idea of random tripping. It's still a real issue that I have complained about since the dawn of Smash 4.

It sucks in that game, and really shouldn't be in Smash Ultimate. What was wrong with way the previous three games handled their KOs off the top anyways? Star KO almost guaranteed with the possibility of the rare Screen KO? Given the fact that the two iconic KOs are near identical length now, there really shouldn't be any issue with that. Looking at Screen KOs from Smash Melee and Smash Brawl when I say that by the way.
 
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Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
I'm not going to give up on Smash Ultimate because of this, but as people have stated, KOs off the top having an RNG factor was an idea as good as the idea of random tripping. It's still a real issue that I have complained about since the dawn of Smash 4.

It sucks in that game, and really shouldn't be in Smash Ultimate. What was wrong with way the previous three games handled their KOs off the top anyways? Star KO almost guaranteed with the possibility of the rare Screen KO? Given the fact that the two iconic KOs are near identical length now, there really shouldn't be any issue with that. Looking at Screen KOs from Smash Melee and Smash Brawl when I say that by the way.
Star KOs and Screen KOs had an equal delay before removing a stock/point in Smash 4, which removed the scenario of a match being decided by the RNG of which top-blast-line-KO animation played if two characters crossed the blast line nearly simultaneously at the closing moments of a match (i.e. one character getting lucky and being "saved by the bell"). That was a good call, and making Star and Screen KOs not happen towards the end of a match was also a good call. I'm just not sure why they thought it was a good idea to also have top blast line KOs randomly play the ordinary explosion animation rather than a Star or Screen KO at any point of a match, considering that this adds in the same "dumb luck 'saved by the bell'" scenario that they tried to remove by making Screen KOs be as long as Star KOs, nor am I sure why Screen KOs are slated to be faster than Star KOs again in Ultimate. They had a decent idea for toning down the randomness of the game, and then they half-assed the execution. Just... why...?
 

Jakisthe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
58
That the competitive scene will resign Squad Strike to a side event instead of it being the vastly more interesting main event it already objectively appears to be.
 
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