You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Diddy Kong]

Difference between Little Mac and Lyn is that Little Mac does quite a lot of attacks compared to Lyn, so as an AT he has a lot more to work with. However, playable AT characters are quite more likely this time maybe cause Sakurai already revisited the Villager as an playable character. And he even added a character from a Wii title, Wii Fit Trainer.

So yeah, in all actuality, if we are to believe Sakurai that some AT characters where meant to be playables, Lyn could still make it in.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

On the roster size: Sakurai said so, this is basically the most common knowledge about the roster.

The pattern although consistent is unlikely to continue, from 64 to Melee and from Melee to Brawl we had roster expansion now with that number being locked in Brawl territory we're looking at replacements and removals and as FE has gotten a replacement going into a game with an expanded roster and owing to the fact that generally speaking the protagonist changes every game in Fire Emblem....

I conclude we'll see Marth and the next main character I didn't play the game (no 3DS) so whoever he is.

I have to disagree with this, Ike's moveset is unique, Chrom can't use it the way Ike does, it would be wasted if we don't see it again. Besides Mewtwo, only clones were cut. Even then, him and Roy were planned for brawl, but time constraints didn't let it happen. Be warned with patterns, they can be broken at any time. Ike should stay and I expect 3 or 4 reps for FE hopefully 4 so we can have Lyn.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Actually no. There's a lot more to that.

Okay sure

"*Insert support for their favorite somewhat realistic but not really character here*"

There you go. 79 pages now and on-going of this summarized. I'm not trying to completely shoot everyone's hopes down, but being realistic is the smartest thing to do. What we're getting in reality, while sad, is probably the truth.

But hey, look on the bright side, it's not all that bad. Marth's sure to be with at least SOMEONE asides from himself even if we see a removal of Ike (Which would be stupid and I could write an entire post of the top ten reasons why this is, but whatever) - Plus I don't know why everyone's automatically assuming Chrom when there's just as much of a chance that it could be Robin, so there's that. If DLC happens, Roy is probably one of the first in line (If there's a new way. Points to anyone who gets the reference)

But Lyn/Ephriam/Leaf/Etc/Bacon/Your mother are all just... unrealistic, or at least, unlikely.

 

[smashbro29]

I have to disagree with this, Ike's moveset is unique, Chrom can't use it the way Ike does, it would be wasted if we don't see it again. Besides Mewtwo, only clones were cut. Even then, him and Roy were planned for brawl, but time constraints didn't let it happen. Be warned with patterns, they can be broken at any time. Ike should stay and I expect 3 or 4 reps for FE hopefully 4 so we can have Lyn.

Your expectations shouldn't be your hopes. From a purely logical standpoint following trends, logic and things that have been said and found we have no reason to believe we'll get more than 2 FE characters.

My hopes are way different than my expectations.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Your expectations shouldn't be your hopes. From a purely logical standpoint following trends, logic and things that have been said and found we have no reason to believe we'll get more than 2 FE characters.

My hopes are way different than my expectations.

The final roster isn't nearly as predictable or logical as people think. To say that logic does not even slightly point towards more than two reps is being way to certain.

 

[smashbro29]

The final roster isn't nearly as predictable or logical as people think. To say that logic does not even slightly point towards more than two reps is being way to certain.

The thing is nobody knows anything. All we have to go on is logic, trends and statements and I've shown how those have led me to believe there will Marth, Chrom and that's it.

 

[cephalopod17]

Logicly from past trends we can assume that Ike will get cut,much like Roy and be replaced by a new Fire Emblem character which Chrom/Lucina and even Robin (The Avatar) have the best chances. All three are main characters and play major parts in storyline. One or at best two of them will be in with Marth. With the new Arena Ferox stage confirmed,I doubt there Ike/Roy will be returning. (As DLC,well that's a whole different topic)

To conclude,Ike getting cut,being replaced by either Chrom,Lucina or Robin(Avatar)

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Stop with that nonesense, Ike will be there I have faith in Sakurai!

 

[•Col•]

The thing is nobody knows anything. All we have to go on is logic, trends and statements and I've shown how those have led me to believe there will Marth, Chrom and that's it.

Exactly. We don't know anything. And while logic helps when thinking, we definitely can't go purely on trends and statements alone. If we went on trends and statements alone, Animal Crossing Villager would have never appeared as a playable character in Smash Bros, and neither will Ridley. And hell, even using logic doesn't help too much when trying to predict the roster purely just because characters like G&W, Rob, and WiiFit Trainer exist.

And your whole 'trend' argument was already destroyed when someone mentioned StarFox... You basically just said there are obvious exceptions to the rule. So I must ask, why is it impossible for Fire Emblem to be one of those exceptions and how are you so sure it isn't?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I think Intelligent System will atleast try persuading Sakurai to put Ike, after they included a character that had nothing to do with the story in Awakening just to show how much they like Ike....but my guess Priam was a request from the artist himself, I remember reading on reddit that he wanted so badly to draw Ike from Radiant dawn....but if not that Priam existence show how much Int Sys cherish Ike!

 

[smashbro29]

Exactly. We don't know anything. And while logic helps when thinking, we definitely can't go purely on trends and statements alone. If we went on trends and statements alone, Animal Crossing Villager would have never appeared as a playable character in Smash Bros, and neither will Ridley. And hell, even using logic doesn't help too much when trying to predict the roster purely just because characters like G&W, Rob, and WiiFit Trainer exist.

And your whole 'trend' argument was already destroyed when someone mentioned StarFox... You basically just said there are obvious exceptions to the rule. So I must ask, why is it impossible for Fire Emblem to be one of those exceptions and how are you so sure it isn't?

Actually when all you have is trends and statements all you can use to make predictions are trends and statements.

Part of the logic is guessing off the wall characters because they have made it into Melee and Brawl. No one saw Wii Fit Trainer coming though. A third FE character does not qualify for that zany category though.

The exceptions have to do with something in this case it's bias, Sakurai clearly favors StarFox (the N64 one anyhow) and each game has seen one new character as the roster size increased, as this game's roster count won't increase drastically or at all I believe we'll get the 3 from Brawl.

 

[Noler_Mass]

As much as I don't enjoy using Ike in smash, losing him would be a tragedy because Ike is a baller. But I'd still rather have Chrom than Ike. And Marth isn't going anywhere, plus he's my main man in smash so I don't want him to go anywhere.

Trends are stupid people. Sakurai probably revisits every characters significance, he doesn't add them just cuz. What we have to go on when predicting the roster is facts and educated guessing. The facts are that awakening is not only the newest game and the game that saved the series from damnation, but it also had great sales and had great reviews. Another thing is that arena ferox is announced as a stage, this is important due to the fact that this is where masked Marth and Chrom first fought. Lastly Chrom is the most recognizable character from the game, and the protagonist. Both robin and Lucina are popular in the game too, but Chrom is the face of the game.

I don't understand why people still think that characters like robin, Lucina, lyn or Anna even have a fighting chance against Chrom. Even Roy looks doubtful. The only thing he really has going for him is his fans from Melee, but that shouldn't really matter since characters in smash unless they are completely pointless like pichu, tend to gain a huge following. And plus its already been shown that sakurai does not prioritize him at all. Roy would be a nice addition as a late coming clone to bulk up the roster, but I don't think anything past that is feasible. The most likely character to join the roster with a new moveset is Chrom by a long shot IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike is the man Chrom wish he could be.

PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE RETURN OF THE HERO OF BLUE FLAMES WHO DOESN'T SHOW SYMPATHY, AND FIGHTS FOR HIS FRIENDS!

 

[DMurr]

It looks to me almost like all of the exact same animations are being used still for this version that were used in Brawl. I'm having a hard time viewing them cutting characters for any reason other than issues with porting them to the new game (which Sakurai has stated has been an issue on the 3DS for characters that are two-in-ones). Ike seems like he'd be one of the easiest to port over.. all his moves have seemingly basic mechanics. It would be great to see him have a change in appearance to base off of Radiant Dawn, though.

 

[•Col•]

Actually when all you have is trends and statements all you can use to make predictions are trends and statements.

Part of the logic is guessing off the wall characters because they have made it into Melee and Brawl. No one saw Wii Fit Trainer coming though. A third FE character does not qualify for that zany category though.

The exceptions have to do with something in this case it's bias, Sakurai clearly favors StarFox (the N64 one anyhow) and each game has seen one new character as the roster size increased, as this game's roster count won't increase drastically or at all I believe we'll get the 3 from Brawl.

Thank you.

This is so ridiculously true it's not even funny. Sakurai lets his bias influence his decisions SO MUCH when designing Smash games.

But guess what? Sakurai is a Fire Emblem fan, and lately I've been getting the sense that he's been becoming an even bigger once since Brawl was released. He even acted as the interviewer for this Nintendo FE11 interview: http://web.archive.org/web/20121021...em.com/shadowdragon/interview/interview1.html

You can tell he really enjoys the series and he goes way back with it... And looking back, he SINGLE HANDEDLY brought Fire Emblem to the world by including Marth and Roy in Melee. There's almost no way FE7 would've been released internationally if they weren't in Melee. And I remember in an interview or something for Melee, that he felt really happy about Roy's design(because FE6 hadn't even been released yet)... Anyway my point is, that he definitely feels a connection with the series.

Plus, 3 FE characters were planned for Brawl. Even if they decided to cut Roy because they didn't have time, it at least shows that Sakurai is not at all opposed to the idea of having 3 FE reps. And just look at another series that Sakurai is HUGELY biased to (and rightfully so)... Kirby. For both 64 and Melee, Kirby was the only character that was released. King DDD was planned for Melee, but was cut due to time restraints. And you know what happened in the next Smash game? BOOM +2 Kirby reps. King DDD, the character that was planned for the previous Smash game, and Metaknight. If we're looking at past trends, then there you go. I very much think a similar thing could happen with Smash 4 and FE getting 2 additional slots and is not at all ridiculous, where they could add Roy, who was planned for the previous game, and another new FE rep.

Anyway, I'm calling it right now. Fire Emblem is getting at least 3 characters in the next Smash game.

tldr version: Yes, Sakurai is biased. And it is because of that bias that FE will most likely get more than 2 character slots for Smash 4.

 

[Jaedrik]

Hey guys.
Check this out.

And if Sakurai-san was so biased, why did he make Ganondorf bottom tier?

 

[LaniusShrike]

Hey guys.
Check this out.

And if Sakurai-san was so biased, why did he make Ganondorf bottom tier?

Because he's sh*******y as ********* at balancing?

... woof, that's a hefty Anna post you linked.

 

[Neanderthal]

And if Sakurai-san was so biased, why did he make Ganondorf bottom tier?

He only forced himself to main Ganondorf because he was bottom tier so that he learns better for SSB4.
/bs

 

[Deleted member]

Why Sakurai plays as Ganondorf?
Because HE IS ENTERTAINER!!

 

[Jaedrik]

Eh, I really think he tries to do what he thinks is best, that will benefit Smash, he seems genuine and honest. That being said, I hope Sakurai-san notices us!

 

[smashbro29]

Thank you.

This is so ridiculously true it's not even funny. Sakurai lets his bias influence his decisions SO MUCH when designing Smash games.

But guess what? Sakurai is a Fire Emblem fan, and lately I've been getting the sense that he's been becoming an even bigger once since Brawl was released. He even acted as the interviewer for this Nintendo FE11 interview: http://web.archive.org/web/20121021...em.com/shadowdragon/interview/interview1.html

You can tell he really enjoys the series and he goes way back with it... And looking back, he SINGLE HANDEDLY brought Fire Emblem to the world by including Marth and Roy in Melee. There's almost no way FE7 would've been released internationally if they weren't in Melee. And I remember in an interview or something for Melee, that he felt really happy about Roy's design(because FE6 hadn't even been released yet)... Anyway my point is, that he definitely feels a connection with the series.

Plus, 3 FE characters were planned for Brawl. Even if they decided to cut Roy because they didn't have time, it at least shows that Sakurai is not at all opposed to the idea of having 3 FE reps. And just look at another series that Sakurai is HUGELY biased to (and rightfully so)... Kirby. For both 64 and Melee, Kirby was the only character that was released. King DDD was planned for Melee, but was cut due to time restraints. And you know what happened in the next Smash game? BOOM +2 Kirby reps. King DDD, the character that was planned for the previous Smash game, and Metaknight. If we're looking at past trends, then there you go. I very much think a similar thing could happen with Smash 4 and FE getting 2 additional slots and is not at all ridiculous, where they could add Roy, who was planned for the previous game, and another new FE rep.

Anyway, I'm calling it right now. Fire Emblem is getting at least 3 characters in the next Smash game.

tldr version: Yes, Sakurai is biased. And it is because of that bias that FE will most likely get more than 2 character slots for Smash 4.

I gotta be honest with you, it seems like this is a lot less talking about characters and a lot more your allegiance to... Fire Emblem? I guess. I honestly feel like I'm arguing with a zealot and we all know you can't win those.

 

[Maffewt]

Does anyone else want Marth to have the mask..? Or is it just me..? It's the only difference between Masked Marth and regular Marth's outfit in Awakening, anyway.
Plus I think it's the coolest he has ever looked, and it's probably his most recognisable look to people who haven't played Awakening, because of it being current and well promoted. People who have played itwould see it more as an homage to the Hero-king thing, rather than muddying a character's history

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Does anyone else want Marth to have the mask..? Or is it just me..? It's the only difference between Masked Marth and regular Marth's outfit in Awakening, anyway.
Plus I think it's the coolest he has ever looked, and it's probably his most recognisable look to people who haven't played Awakening, because of it being current and well promoted. People who have played itwould see it more as an homage to the Hero-king thing, rather than muddying a character's history

Play the game first....don't put any Fire Emblem input without Fire Emblem knowledge..

 

[Opossum]

Does anyone else want Marth to have the mask..? Or is it just me..? It's the only difference between Masked Marth and regular Marth's outfit in Awakening, anyway.
Plus I think it's the coolest he has ever looked, and it's probably his most recognisable look to people who haven't played Awakening, because of it being current and well promoted. People who have played itwould see it more as an homage to the Hero-king thing, rather than muddying a character's history

Should we tell him?

 

[Noler_Mass]

Should we tell him?

Nah... (Even though I don't mind the idea of Marth having a mask as one of his alt costumes, paying homage to awakening and working with arena ferox, but not, you know, being masked Marth)

 

[Maffewt]

Ummmm, I know what the deal is with Marth in Awakening... I was trying to avoid spoilers for the peeps on here who haven't played it, it's only been available for two months in Europe. That's why I said people who've played Awakening would get it's just an homage; a reference to Marth's legacy as opposed to actually being that iteration of "his" character, which would not be the best representation of either character. Meanwhile, people who didn't know would simply see it as marth's most recent and advertised (and coolest/most distinctive, imo) look and be none the wiser. It'd turn more people onto Awakening, as well as being able to play out the Chrom/Masked Marth thing that has been the emphasis of all the promotion. And, like I said above, the only difference between Marth's dlc Awakening look and Masked Marth is the mask, so it's a small touch, really.

That make it clearer? Though major props for no spoilers when thinking I hadn't played it!

 

[Noler_Mass]

Ummmm, I know what the deal is with Marth in Awakening... I was trying to avoid spoilers for the peeps on here who haven't played it, it's only been available for two months in Europe. That's why I said people who've played Awakening would get it's just an homage; a reference to Marth's legacy as opposed to actually being that iteration of "his" character, which would not be the best representation of either character. Meanwhile, people who didn't know would simply see it as marth's most recent and advertised (and coolest/most distinctive, imo) look and be none the wiser. It'd turn more people onto Awakening, as well as being able to play out the Chrom/Masked Marth thing that has been the emphasis of all the promotion. And, like I said above, the only difference between Marth's dlc Awakening look and Masked Marth is the mask, so it's a small touch, really.

That make it clearer? Though major props for no spoilers when thinking I hadn't played it!

I mean if you are on this website you most certainly know who masked Marth is unless you are touched in the head or you reeeeeeally don't care about fire emblem. But still props to everyone I guess.

Also a quick note I just took over the Chrom thread so any ideas on what I can do to make the OP awesome are greatly appreciated!

 

[•Col•]

I gotta be honest with you, it seems like this is a lot less talking about characters and a lot more your allegiance to... Fire Emblem? I guess. I honestly feel like I'm arguing with a zealot and we all know you can't win those.

Very convincing argument you got there. You completely countered every single point I made to discredit your own original argument where I used your own logic against you.

/sarcasm

What's funny is that I've only played 2 Fire Emblem games all the way through and played a handful of chapters of 2 others. I see the fun in the games, but its hard for me to actually stick with them. I wouldn't even classify myself as a huge FE fan, let alone a zealot to the series. I just happen to know a decent amount about it(like most of Nintendo's series)..

So I guess it's understandable for you to call me a Fire Emblem zealot cuz when you stand someone, who understands what the discussion is about, next to someone that doesn't and is just talking out their ass, then I guess it's easy to make that kind of mistake.

#callingout

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I mean if you are on this website you most certainly know who masked Marth is unless you are touched in the head or you reeeeeeally don't care about fire emblem. But still props to everyone I guess.

Also a quick note I just took over the Chrom thread so any ideas on what I can do to make the OP awesome are greatly appreciated!

Chrom is an awesome character, explain how Ike,Marth and Chrom can co-exist in the OP, so people can understand your point of view...

 

[•Col•]

Chrom is an awesome character, explain how Ike,Marth and Chrom can co-exist in the OP, so people can understand your point of view...

That's working under the assumption that Ike is guaranteed for the next Smash game and there will be 3 FE slots.

Which a sizable amount of Chrom supporters do not believe for whatever reason.

 

[Noler_Mass]

That's working under the assumption that Ike is guaranteed for the next Smash game and there will be 3 FE slots.

Which a sizable amount of Chrom supporters do not believe for whatever reason.

not necessarily they arent neccessarily all confirmed, but do to the likely chance that they could all be in the game it could still be a worth it endeavor to write about.

 

[smashbro29]

#callingout

A hashtag. Brilliant. Life is too short.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

“The amount of stress I feel, it’s almost to the brink of death,” Sakurai said of designing Smash Bros.’s character roster. “Because it’s not just a matter of me personally thinking this character or that character is going to be in the game; it’s that we also have the game balance, animation, graphics and sound to think about in order to make that character fully fleshed out in that universe. I have to think about all of that when I go through this decision-making process.
“Whether it’s a minor character or a character that is one of the most highly skilled and most played, if that character is removed from the game, the people who live for that character in Smash Bros. are going to have their feelings hurt.
“I think we have to really consider that, so I take a very serious, hard look at that and have empathy for the players who look for these type of characters when we’re making these decisions.”

-Masahiro Sakurai

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...ion?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter​

 

[FalKoopa]

People interpret this interview so differently. Some people think it means cuts will be minimal, others think it is a guarentee of cuts.

 

[TheTuninator]

I see it as both. It's a guarantee of cuts, but of minimal cuts. Much like Brawl, really.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

People interpret this interview so differently. Some people think it means cuts will be minimal, others think it is a guarentee of cuts.

Falkoopa I know how much you like Toon Link, but TBH Toon Link is heading the cut list, specially the Spirit Track stage...so hopefully Toon Link is the scape goat...

 

[Curious Villager]

Falkoopa I know how much you like Toon Link, but TBH Toon Link is heading the cut list, specially the Spirit Track stage...so hopefully Toon Link is the scape goat...

Remember when everyone was super certain that Ness was cut from Brawl? Remember "Up until now?"

How about we just wait and see what happens before we just jump into conclusions? Especially since the Link in the Spirit Track's stage isn't even the same one who was playable in Brawl.

Anyway, in regards to Fire Emblem, the only ones I'm still mostly rooting for are Anna and Lyn, but I'm not really sure about either of them. :/

 

[Noler_Mass]

Well I mean, toon link is featured on the spirit tracks stage. Ness being cut had no visible reason to back it up, plus ness was a first game veteran who had a substantial following. There was absolutely no reason to cut him. But there are plenty of good reasons to either cut or replace toon link.

From how I read it, I see it as cuts being extremely likely, but he doesn't like it. He does see it as neccessary though. I would feel the same way in his position. He wouldn't go into this much detail if he didnt plan on cutting anybody, thinking such is grasping on false hope.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well I mean, toon link is featured on the spirit tracks stage. Ness being cut had no visible reason to back it up, plus ness was a first game veteran who had a substantial following. There was absolutely no reason to cut him. But there are plenty of good reasons to either cut or replace toon link.

From how I read it, I see it as cuts being extremely likely, but he doesn't like it. He does see it as neccessary though. I would feel the same way in his position. He wouldn't go into this much detail if he didnt plan on cutting anybody, thinking such is grasping on false hope.

Still, we shouldn't be pointing the gun on any characters, not even Toon Link. As many of us have pretty much discussed in the Toon Link thread. Toon Link still got a chance of returning, regardless of there being a lookalike in the stage who isn't even him in the first place.

As for Ness, even if he was a part of the original 12, many people were still very concerned about his future thanks to the misconseption that was made in the Brawl dojo and being a part of the original 12 isn't exactly a safe haven either as Sakurai stated that he planned to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee before he changed plans and people speculating that Jigglypuff was apparently almost cut from Brawl.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be jumping into any conclusions unless Sakurai flat out states what some of the characters fates will be. Such as actually admitting that Toon Link being in the Spirit Tracks stage means that he is cut.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I see that a whole lot of people jump to conclusion with rosters (hell before the reveal EVERYONE was jumping to conlclusion, especially regarding newcomers), but I try not to. I have no reason to believe that toon link is impossible. I just consider him likely to be cut, along with lucario and snake. Gut feeling tells me that's going to be the only cuts, but who knows. And if sakurai thought the backlash of cutting Roy and mewtwo was extreme, the backlash of cutting ness would be backbreaking.