You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[ChronoBound]

Yep, totally Marth.

She is not going to wear a kimono or bikini in Smash Bros. She is wears the same outfit as FE13 Marth wears.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Not my point.
You said she always looks like a Marth clone in her official art, I proved otherwise.


I have no reason to believe she'd look any different from her deffault look should she be in Smash, though. It just irks me when people make false claims.


Anyways, I think Basilio and Flavia tag team would make a cool assist trophy (and boy would it pi$$ off a lot of people)

 

[Deleted member]

While I'm more of an advocator of Anna, there is a problem with the "Marth = Lucina" logic:

a. It is unknown whether or not Marth will even have his Awakening appearance.
b. Even if Marth used his Awakening appearance, Lucina still has the Great Lord appearance as an option, which is noticeably different to where confusion would not exist.
c. Even if the two had the same outfit, the biggest way to tell the difference (outside of voice, of course) would be the mask (if Lucina's wearing it), the hair length (if Lucina's going natural), sword design (c'mon, the Falchion's design when Marth wielded it is too iconic to change), and overall body figure (Marth's feminine, but not THAT feminine. I'm also pretty sure they don't have the same exact height and proportions.).
d. Even if all that didn't matter, Sakurai can simply give them aesthetic differences between the outfits. It's not like Sakurai hasn't already put his own spin on character designs.

 

[ChronoBound]

Not my point.
You said she always looks like a Marth clone in her official art, I proved otherwise.


I have no reason to believe she'd look any different from her deffault look should she be in Smash, though. It just irks me when people make false claims.
)

I was talking about artwork for an outfit that is combat appropriate.

 

[Deleted member]

I was talking about artwork for an outfit that is combat appropriate.

We've got a pair of princesses fighting in dresses.
I'm pretty sure "combat appropriate" flew out the window quite a while ago.

(Not that I'm arguing for Lucina fighting in a bathing suit or kimono; just that the argument for "combat appropriate" is foolish.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Does that thing look practical for combat ? and no rune sword always cast magic no matter your range is...

Actually yes.

It's jaggedness is meant to rip flesh.

 

[FalKoopa]

It's jaggedness is meant to rip flesh.

That automatically rules it out. It's too violent for Smash.

But more on-topic, how many new FE stages should we expect this time?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That automatically rules it out. It's too violent for Smash.

But more on-topic, how many new FE stages should we expect this time?

Better than explosives.

Depends.

If Sakurai wants to go the Melee route (I hope he does) we can go two stages for each series (barring retro and third party).

If he wants to go the Brawl route, bigger stages will get 2 while smaller ones will get 1. (Mario meanwhile will get about 5).

Or he could do something completely different.

 

[Deleted member]

While I'm more of an advocator of Anna, there is a problem with the "Marth = Lucina" logic:

a. It is unknown whether or not Marth will even have his Awakening appearance.
b. Even if Marth used his Awakening appearance, Lucina still has the Great Lord appearance as an option, which is noticeably different to where confusion would not exist.
c. Even if the two had the same outfit, the biggest way to tell the difference (outside of voice, of course) would be the mask (if Lucina's wearing it), the hair length (if Lucina's going natural), sword design (c'mon, the Falchion's design when Marth wielded it is too iconic to change), and overall body figure (Marth's feminine, but not THAT feminine. I'm also pretty sure they don't have the same exact height and proportions.).
d. Even if all that didn't matter, Sakurai can simply give them aesthetic differences between the outfits. It's not like Sakurai hasn't already put his own spin on character designs.

I actually agree with everything said on here. Just one thing... How could we make Lucina a light, swift and frail character, but still keep her different from Marth?

The only thing I could see would be remaking Marth into more of a middleweight, Ike into a heavy, and Lucina is now a lightweight, like ZSS. I can kinda see Lucina playing something like Amy off Soul Calibur...

Hmm, gonna see if I can cook up a moveset for her. Anyone here who's played FE13 willing to lend a hand?

Speaking of which, is there a Lucina support thread? I know Chrom has one, but what about the preffered Lord?

EDIT:
Lucina as a Great Lord:

Spoiler

That actually looks kinda cool. Now what would be ironic would be if Lucina played as the middleweight and Marth as the frail lightweight.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I actually agree with everything said on here. Just one thing... How could we make Lucina a light, swift and frail character, but still keep her different from Marth?

The only thing I could see would be remaking Marth into more of a middleweight, Ike into a heavy, and Lucina is now a lightweight, like ZSS. I can kinda see Lucina playing something like Amy off Soul Calibur...
4


Hmm, gonna see if I can cook up a moveset for her. Anyone here who's played FE13 willing to lend a hand?

Speaking of which, is there a Lucina support thread? I know Chrom has one, but what about the preffered Lord?

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-the-redacted-for-spoils-spoil-alert.335262/
Also speaking of SC, I made way to many FE characters in character creator in that game.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Chrom's Great Lord costume looks awesome....

 

[Deleted member]

I actually agree with everything said on here. Just one thing... How could we make Lucina a light, swift and frail character, but still keep her different from Marth?

The only thing I could see would be remaking Marth into more of a middleweight, Ike into a heavy, and Lucina is now a lightweight, like ZSS. I can kinda see Lucina playing something like Amy off Soul Calibur...



Hmm, gonna see if I can cook up a moveset for her. Anyone here who's played FE13 willing to lend a hand?

Speaking of which, is there a Lucina support thread? I know Chrom has one, but what about the preffered Lord?

I would agree that remaking Marth into the middleweight would be the better idea (though he isn't that light to begin with).
Like Ike being a Mighty Glacier, I think Marth's Fragile Speedster qualities were Sakurai's doing. So if Smash was introduced to an actual Fragile Speedster from the FE series....Marth would probably have to change and become a Jack-of-All-Stats. While Roy is....simply Roy. Fitting none of those archtypes.

And yes, there is a Lucina thread.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Marth should be a little heavier than Peach and Zelda, yet he's a little lighter now. I don't think weight buffs are neccecary if they aren't nerfing him on other grounds. Marth has been a very solid character in both Smash installments he's in. There's no need to turn him into a MetaKnight.

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said, Marth being a Fragile Speedster is more or less Sakurai's doing.
So, if Marth does get a weight buff, he will likely get a speed nerf to go with it. This is especially so on the hypothetical that Lucina takes his place as the Fragile Speedster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Could easily work why not? But likewise, they could give Ike strenght and weight buffs, make Chrom his semi-clone who's lighter and faster.

It all works.

I don't even give a **** no more.

 

[loganhogan]

Why would Lucina be a frail character? She has one of the best defensive parameters in Awakening and is a much stronger and defensive fighter than her father.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike's best stat in Path of Radiance was Speed.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why would Lucina be a frail character? She has one of the best defensive parameters in Awakening and is a much stronger and defensive fighter than her father.

Physically smaller than both Marth and Ike. Female (they are typically lighter).

Plus, Lucina is fast. If the character was both fast and bulky, then the character would be too good.

Plus Sakurai doesn't really care how FE characters act in their original games. He just looks at them and decides their properties from there.

 

[Deleted member]

Could easily work why not? But likewise, they could give Ike strenght and weight buffs, make Chrom his semi-clone who's lighter and faster.

It all works.

I don't even give a **** no more.

Ike being stronger and heavier than he is already is kind of a red flag.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ike being stronger and heavier than he is already is kind of a red flag.

Stronger? Big red flag.

Heavier? He could use that actually. Granted not Bowser heavy. Maybe somwhere around Charizard.

 

[loganhogan]

Physically smaller than both Marth and Ike. Female (they are typically lighter).

Plus, Lucina is fast. If the character was both fast and bulky, then the character would be too good.

Plus Sakurai doesn't really care how FE characters act in their original games. He just looks at them and decides their properties from there.

Yeah she is very fast. So for balance sake it clicks.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike's Aether needs a good buff. So that it's also usable as an attack. I was heavily disappointed it was so weak in Brawl.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ike's Aether needs a good buff. So that it's also usable as an attack. I was heavily disappointed it was so weak in Brawl.

It's pretty usable.

Especially useful hitting people above you.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Still not as strong how it was in his games.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

It's pretty usable.

Especially useful hitting people above you.

Yet, it still needs a buff I feel, plus with it not being the best recovery it makes sense for it to be strong then

 

[Diddy Kong]

Exactly. Give it a second, ending attack which does a lot of damage. And maybe heal a little damage when you connect all hits from the multi hits.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Still not as strong how it was in his games.

If it was as strong as his game, the move would be broken.

End of story.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

If it was as strong as his game, the move would be broken.

End of story.

I'm not saying that, though, with Ike plummeting if failed as a recovery, I think it needs to be buffed in some way.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A 10%~15% damage buff on a second attack on Aether wouldn't break the game.

 

[Deleted member]

Does Chrom use that Shield (The Fire Emblem?) in the game? Is it a central part of his design? There might be something there for him after all.

My beef with Lucina is that it's hard for me to see her doing something that's NOT fighting like Marth already does. Not because she looks like him, it's just because it's a fitting style for her. Even if she has different moves, she'd be too much like him, and in a series like FE, where there are so many diverse possiblities, it seems like an odd/boring fit. Like in that video in the Lucina thread, there really wasn't anything really impressive about her, and it just felt odd.

It's just so hard to pick between the two because both are just so... bland. Like if Lucina used Lances or magic or Magic and Lances, or a Bow, or ANYTHING else. She would have been MUCH more interesting. An Archer lord would also be really cool.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Does Chrom use that Shield (The Fire Emblem?) in the game? Is it a central part of his design? There might be something there for him after all.

My beef with Lucina is that it's hard for me to see her doing something that's NOT fighting like Marth already does. Not because she looks like him, it's just because it's a fitting style for her. Even if she has different moves, she'd be too much like him, and in a series like FE, where there are so many diverse possiblities, it seems like an odd/boring fit. Like in that video in the Lucina thread, there really wasn't anything really impressive about her, and it just felt odd.

It's just so hard to pick between the two because both are just so... bland. Like if Lucina used Lances or magic or Magic and Lances, or a Bow, or ANYTHING else. She would have been MUCH more interesting. An Archer lord would also be really cool.

I just realized we never had a Archer Lord, NINTENDO, HEAR MY PLEA, MAKE THE NEXT LORD A PRIMARY BOW UNIT.
Also Lucina is probably our least boring bet next to Avatar, Lyn, even though I want her, doesn't have as much of a chance as FE13 reps

 

[Deleted member]

Like her father, Lucina can toss Javelins when she promotes to a Great Lord, so there is that.

 

[Opossum]

At the very least, it'd give them a reason to bring back the Crossbows...

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Bow Lord:When promoted gains the use of lances,
bring back the seize and defend mechanic

 

[ChronoBound]

I looked at a Japanese review site for their opinions on the Fire Emblem series, and unsurprisingly their outlook on the FE series is pretty consistent:

FE3 (VC): 71 points (received a letter grade of C though, I guess VC games have a harsher grading system)
FE4 (VC): 75 points (received a letter grade of C though, I guess VC games have a harsher grading system)
FE5 (VC): 82 points (no letter grade due to not enough reviews)
FE6: 78 points (A)
FE7: 78 points (A)
FE8: 65 points (C)
FE9: 73 points (A)
FE10: 75 points (A)
FE11: 60 points (C)
FE12: 75 points (A)
FE13: 70 points (B)

It pretty much matches up with what I said before that the only two FE games I see a lot of hate for in Japan are FE8 and FE11.

Some other curious things from the website:
Super Metroid: 84 points (B) (pretty much confirms that VC games have a harsher grade scale for a letter grade in regards to points)
Panel de Pon: 76 points (no letter grade due to not enough reviews)
A Link To The Past: 83 points (B)
Majora's Mask: 84 points (no letter grade)
F-Zero X: 75 points (C)
Star Fox 64: 75 points (C)
Ocarina of Time: 81 points (B)
Super Mario 64: 76 points (C)
Super Mario RPG: 68 points (C)
F-Zero: 80 points (B)
Super Mario World: 72 points (C)
Paper Mario: 76 points (C)
Nazo no Murasame: Only one review for it and he gave it 38 points
Super Mario Bros. 3: 87 points (B)
Metroid: Only one review, 72 points
Punch-Out: only two reviews, 75 points
Super Smash Bros.: 72 points (C)
Custom Robo V2: 81 points (B)
Metroid Other M: 55 points (D) (BWAAHAHAHA, the Japanese hated Other M too)
Metroid Prime 2 Wii Version: 76 points (C)
Metroid Prime Wii Version: 83 points (B)
Metroid Prime 3: 80 points (A)
Mother 3: 66 points (C) (I actually heard Mother 3 was pretty divisive in Japan)
Metroid Fusion: 73 points (B)
Metroid Zero Mission: 76 points (B)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl: 74 points (B)
Metroid Prime: 75 points (A)
Metroid Prime 2: 68 points (C)
Resident Evil 4 (GCN): 81 points (S)
Super Smash Bros. Melee: 83 points (S) (Wow, I guess the Japanese have a strong liking to Melee too)
Star Fox Adventures: 52 points (D) (I said before the Japanese hated the post-64 SF games)
Star Fox Assault: 59 points (D) (more hate for post-64 Star Fox)
F-Zero GX: 82 points S (I applaud the Japanese for rating this game so highly)
Star Fox Command: 64 points (C)

Could not find reviews for FE1 and FE2 on the VC.

 

[Deleted member]

I just realized we never had a Archer Lord, NINTENDO, HEAR MY PLEA, MAKE THE NEXT LORD A PRIMARY BOW UNIT.
Also Lucina is probably our least boring bet next to Avatar, Lyn, even though I want her, doesn't have as much of a chance as FE13 reps

I'm on the same boat buddy. Lyn's my main support, but I know she's got a ghost of a chance.

Thus, I'm looking at the probable choices, trying to see who I can warm up to, but none really stand out to me as ZOMG I GOTTA PLAY AS THEM. I guess I can settle for Ike getting buff.

Bow Lord would be sweet.

They can use a basic sword/knife when promoted. They could also use this as a chance to introduce all kinds of diverse Bows.

I'd also like to see FE introduce Shields, Explosives, and a Tactician Class that focused on stat boosting/dropping. Like they could up the attack on your units for 2 turns, or drop the speed/def on enemy units, etc... It would add a great layer of strategic depth to the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

Tear Ring Saga (which was a FE game in everything but name) had a lord whose primary weapon was a bow, Holmes. He was actually much better than the other lord in that game, Ronan (who is a Leaf lookalike, and is supposedly worse than Leaf is).

 

[Deleted member]

Tear Ring Saga (which was a FE game in everything but name) had a lord whose primary weapon was a bow, Holmes. He was actually much better than the other lord in that game, Ronan (who is a Leaf lookalike, and is supposedly worse than Leaf is).

That's on the PS1 isn't it?

I know it's Shouzou Kaga, but is it as good as FE?

 

[ChronoBound]

That's on the PS1 isn't it?

I know it's Shouzou Kaga, but is it as good as FE?

Yeah its on the PS1. Yes, I heard its a good game.

Also, all of aggregate review scores posted for the Famicom, Super Famicom, and N64 games in that post were for the Virtual Console versions.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I'm on the same boat buddy. Lyn's my main support, but I know she's got a ghost of a chance.

Thus, I'm looking at the probable choices, trying to see who I can warm up to, but none really stand out to me as ZOMG I GOTTA PLAY AS THEM. I guess I can settle for Ike getting buff.

Bow Lord would be sweet.

They can use a basic sword/knife when promoted. They could also use this as a chance to introduce all kinds of diverse Bows.

I'd also like to see FE introduce Shields, Explosives, and a Tactician Class that focused on stat boosting/dropping. Like they could up the attack on your units for 2 turns, or drop the speed/def on enemy units, etc... It would add a great layer of strategic depth to the game.

I said lance because of bow-knights and Warriors, it seemed like the most original.