You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Hong]

This stuff about how Chrom and Lucina don't have to be clones made me realize something...

Little Mac's moveset actually looks like it could have worked perfectly for Chrom.

Don't get me wrong, I like it on Mac. I just find it very easy to imagine Chrom doing the attacks I'm seeing in the trailer (with a sword, just to be clear).

Naturally.

I don't really think having a sword is a fighting style. It is entirely based on the character. Link could be without his sword and have entirely the same gameplay function and fighting style.

While it does not dictate gameplay function, it does often have balance implications, though. If Mario always had a sword, even if it were short, his matches would be very different, since he is characterized as suffering due to poor reach.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Well now I really want to see fanart of a fight between boxer Chrom and swordsman Mario.

...I wish I had a better follow-up than that.

 

[Deleted member]

We never talk about villains in this thread.

Who would you most want? Ashnard, Alvis, Validar? Personally I'd love to see Gharnef from the first Fire Emblem for his fascinating use of duplicates and the dark magic he uses, which only Ganondorf really approaches, but could be pulled off in a uniquely cruel way for a playsyle. Obviously any villain from this series is unliekly, more so than the Zelda series and for similar reasons, but they are measurably more fun moveset fodder than the protagonists in my opinion.

 

[Jaedrik]

The issue is not whether they can, the issue is whether they will, and by my estimation, they most likely will not be unique, and that has nothing to do with the wealth of sword technique left unexplored.

 

[Deleted member]

I know, I know, I just wanted some discussion on what they could do if they did put in a villain. I know it's not going to happen.

 

[False Sense]

We never talk about villains in this thread.

Who would you most want? Ashnard, Alvis, Validar? Personally I'd love to see Gharnef from the first Fire Emblem for his fascinating use of duplicates and the dark magic he uses, which only Ganondorf really approaches, but could be pulled off in a uniquely cruel way for a playsyle. Obviously any villain from this series is unliekly, more so than the Zelda series and for similar reasons, but they are measurably more fun moveset fodder than the protagonists in my opinion.

I think the closest thing they could get to putting a villain in is Robin (Spoilers, I guess), but that's stretching it a little bit. Besides that, I really don't see them adding in villains from the series. You can't really add an antagonist without a hero to back them up, and since Fire Emblem constantly changes heroes and villains, and the fact that we're limited on roster slots, it becomes rather difficult to add a proper villain character.

I guess the one I could see working (somewhat) would be the Black Knight from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, but I doubt they would give more representation to those games when Awakening is staring them in the face.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The more I see you guys thinking Chrom will be a semi-clone, the more I think he'll be very unique.

 

[Niko Mar]

The more I see you guys thinking Chrom will be a semi-clone, the more I think he'll be very unique.

I can't wait for that gameplay trailer and Xeno's reaction .

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I can't wait for that gameplay trailer and Xeno's reaction .

I can say that, while I don't suport Chrom, I'd get a kick out of seeing him confirmed just because of seeing Habanero's reaction.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I just wanna see Xenoblaze wrong when Miis, Pac-Man, and Chrom are revealed.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I just wanna see Xenoblaze wrong when Miis, Pac-Man, and Chrom are revealed.

*if

Not when, if.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

Personally i love Chrom..i know many pepole saying he would be unoriginal but personally no i do think they could do something unique with his moveset. Kinda being like Captain Commando from the Marvel Series. Summoning allies to attack the oppeant but also having his own moves.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The issue is not whether they can, the issue is whether they will, and by my estimation, they most likely will not be unique, and that has nothing to do with the wealth of sword technique left unexplored.

Okay.

And the reason you believe this is because ...?

I'm genuinely curious. In a "what possible justification you could have for this line of thought" way.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I can't wait for that gameplay trailer and Xeno's reaction .

Complete dissapointment, because the character has no business in appearing and so many people are going to complain about it.

 

[Mirron]

I don't see that many people complaining, it's not like Chrom is particularly unpopular. And if his playstyle is unique (which would seem to be the case based off of newcomers so far) that'll probably take out a lot of detractors as well, which happened with Rosalina.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Complete dissapointment, because the character has no business in appearing and so many people are going to complain about it.

Tell Intelligent Systems to not repeat the same thing then.

 

[Niko Mar]

Complete dissapointment, because the character has no business in appearing and so many people are going to complain about it.

Great, can't wait!

 

[Soupenomics]

Great, can't wait!

Get hype for Crumb.

 

[Jaedrik]

Okay.

And the reason you believe this is because ...?

I'm genuinely curious. In a "what possible justification you could have for this line of thought" way.

There is no real justification for the other side either, we are both just making judgments about what would happen given x, and as there is no assurance where human choice (namely, Sakurai's choice) is concerned, to think of these things as 'reasons' is a stretch, they're just guesses.
I am generally unhappy with Sakurai's handling of potential sword characters, in part because the vast wealth of sword techniques, while inexhaustible, are not viable for inclusion in Smash. I speak about this from the viewpoint of an owner of many real swords and practitioner of Martial Arts, but this argument is weak and I leave my credentials vague (while they are true, and I feel I have authority in the area), the real supposition follows.
Sakurai has a history of having one or two uninspired characters, and if there's bound to be an uninspired character (or clone or whatever) with a disliked moveset/not enough differentiation/not enough unique gimmick, my bet is that Chrom is more likely than any other popular newcomer to grab that, as there is no readily apparent gimmick or unique trait (note, not individual moveset moves, but theme) to be grabbed and latched on to. Other newcomers are more desirable and have more apparent ways to differentiate themselves from everyone else, taking more development time and edging Chrom out more and more, that is if we suppose Sakurai has a limited time and tries to get the most quality with the least effort, then it is reasonable to say that Chrom may be left in the dust, if he gets in at all, which is a very large if due to the aforementioned. This also works for saying Chrom won't be in period.
I feel this speculation is a valid reflection of what would most likely happen, you can feel free to disagree with me, in fact, I encourage it, hope is always a good thing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think we'll see Ike and Chrom. And not sure yet if I'm gonna like it, but am not gonna delude myself anymore that Chrom isn't likely.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Great, can't wait!

Smugness like this is the reason why I really hate supporters of Chrom.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Smugness like this is the reason why I really hate supporters of Chrom.

You invite this on yourself.

 

[Niko Mar]

Smugness like this is the reason why I really hate supporters of Chrom.

I don't support him, in fact I hate his very existence. His character is very underdeveloped, taking way too many aspects from previous lords in the franchise, alongside being another descendant of the overpopularized Marth. He has no unique moveset potential and would just be a clone of Marth, being a descendant of which his fighting style is carried while also possessing the same sword.

Spoiler

JK LOL. It's easy to hate on anything, why not attempt to accept it.

 

[False Sense]

JK LOL. It's easy to hate on anything, why not attempt to accept it.

Because it's not inevitable, to say the least, and some of us believe that there are superior options.

 

[Niko Mar]

Because it's not inevitable, to say the least, and some of us believe that there are superior options.

Yeah but there's so much needless hate on Chrom himself, and Awakening in general. It's like everyone is trying to be Fire Emblem hipsters since Awakening is so widely popular and has introduced many new people to the series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Because it's not inevitable, to say the least, and some of us believe that there are superior options.

That's no excuse to be as rude to people who disagree with you as Xeno is to Chrom supporters.

I get that there are a lot of people who treat Chrom as the only option, but most of those people don't frequent Smashboards.

 

[False Sense]

Yeah but there's so much needless hate on Chrom himself, and Awakening in general. It's like everyone is trying to be Fire Emblem hipsters since Awakening is so widely popular and has introduced many new people to the series.

Now I don't know why people seem to hate on Awakening. I loved that game myself, and I think it's worthy of having one of it's characters in Smash. I myself don't prefer the idea of it being Chrom and would rather have it be Robin, but Chrom wouldn't be a bad character choice, per se. So I don't think Chrom should receive all the loathing he gets from certain people, but at the same time he's far from a shoo in for SSB4.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yeah but there's so much needless hate on Chrom himself, and Awakening in general. It's like everyone is trying to be Fire Emblem hipsters since Awakening is so widely popular and has introduced many new people to the series.

Popularity shouldn't be used as the basis for quality, the quality is unaffected by that factor. It more has to do with people criticizing the blemishes that puts into question about whether or not it truly is the best title in the series, because from my side of things I didn't have as much fun with this as others due to how lopsided the balance is and how forgettable many of the characters are. This isn't m first title in the series either, so I can't even use the excuse of being biased from first time exposure alone.

Also, I have problems with Chrom because it's trending on ideas already done already, which makes him feel like a stale choice.

 

[Niko Mar]

Popularity shouldn't be used as the basis for quality, the quality is unaffected by that factor. It more has to do with people criticizing the blemishes that puts into question about whether or not it truly is the best title in the series, because from my side of things I didn't have as much fun with this as others due to how lopsided the balance is and how forgettable many of the characters are. This isn't m first title in the series either, so I can't even use the excuse of being biased from first time exposure alone.

Also, I have problems with Chrom because it's trending on ideas already done already, which makes him feel like a stale choice.

Wat?

I'm just saying it is a good Fire Emblem game. Sure it has things wrong with it, but it doesn't deserve the needless bashing it receives.

Same with Chrom. He's not the most interesting lord on the planet, but he's certainly not the most boring.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm just saying it is a good Fire Emblem game. Sure it has things wrong with it, but it doesn't deserve the needless bashing it receives.

FE:A gets a lot of hate because, for a good deal of time after release, it had a lot of people proclaiming it to be the BEST FAIAR EMBLUM EVAR! when it really isn't. The same thing happens whenever anything gets really popular(hell, it even happened within FE with FE4 and 7).

Edit: I found it hard not to hate on Awakening when we had people expecting/hoping for Marth/Ike to be cut from Smash Bros., and get mostly Awakening representation in Smash.

 

[False Sense]

I found it hard not to hate on Awakening when we had people expecting/hoping for Marth/Ike to be cut from Smash Bros., and get mostly Awakening representation in Smash.

Hate on the people who believe that sort of thing, not the innocent game.

 

[Niko Mar]

FE:A gets a lot of hate because, for a good deal of time after release, it had a lot of people proclaiming it to be the BEST FAIAR EMBLUM EVAR! when it really isn't. The same thing happens whenever anything gets really popular(hell, it even happened within FE with FE4 and 7).

Edit: I found it hard not to hate on Awakening when we had people expecting/hoping for Marth/Ike to be cut from Smash Bros., and get mostly Awakening representation in Smash.

But it was true with FE7!!! *breathing intensifies*

lol

EDIT: I get the hate of new things that everyone goes crazy over, but it's just better to let things cool down. The initial hype always blinds people until they review everything in hindsight.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

FE13 is okay.

They needed better plot structure, better characterization, with possibly fewer characters. Then again, it's not like Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn didn't manage to give pretty much everyone a personality and a reason to care about them. Except Makalov, **** Makalov, I always kill Makalov first damn chance I get. FE13 also didn't manage to have a strong core like FE7, with Chrom and Robin being WAAAAAAAAY to underdeveloped. Chrom literally never grows. The closest thing he has to internal conflict is his insecurity in ever being as good an Exalt as his sister ... which never really goes away. He's a fine leader in his own right, but no one ever doubts him, he never faces any kind of major stumbling blocks ... he's always the noble, upright, leader of the Shepards. Contrast this with Hector and Uther in FE7.

The thing is, some people don't need to grow as much as most ... but they don't make the most interesting characters. The Hero's Journey/the monomyth/what have you is the single distilled essence of every story for a reason. You need to see someone go from point A to point B, to grow, to suffer, to feel, to overcome adversity or not, but learn and become a different character during the process. Chrom is static. Much like Eliwood, he suffers trials and loss but it never really changes who he is or takes him in an interesting direction (and dear lord, Eliwood had it much, much worse.) He could have become so overcome with anguish that he would neglect his royal duties and become a terrible ruler. He could never accepted his role as the exalt, leaving the throne empty as he continued to rove the countrysides as the leader of a militia that was the only thing keeping him sane, with companions rapidly losing faith in him. The Valm arc could have never existed, eschewed in favor of a Regna Ferox that seizes the opportunity to attack a weakened kingdom with an absentee ruler running from his demons, plunging the continent into turmoil as the Grimleal plot the ascension of their dark god.

Just ... there was so much potential to get better than what we got. What we got instead was a bland story where you actually have to search for the good characters and plot points, where the good stories arise as a by-product of sheer volume rather than being inherent to the game. More than the ridiculously imbalanced gameplay, that's why I didn't appreciate FE13. I'm glad it prevented the series from dying and drew in a new audience, but I don't think I'm being naive when I say it had the potential to be something much, much better.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wat?

I'm just saying it is a good Fire Emblem game. Sure it has things wrong with it, but it doesn't deserve the needless bashing it receives.

Same with Chrom. He's not the most interesting lord on the planet, but he's certainly not the most boring.

I just don't think it should receive the title of the best title of the entire franchise.

I sort of like to imagine it as the franchise's equivalent to Sonic Adventure 2, where people claim it's the best title in the entire series and the game is a milestone that introduced new fans, but in actually suffers from notable flaws that puts the title into question. It's not the worst thing ever made, but it's not exactly the Magnum Opus, you get what I'm saying? I guess why people are bashing Fire Emblem: Awakening is because of the fans (normally the novices) claiming it's the best game in the series, which causes people to fall into a form of hype bait and expect too much and feel cheated when the status quo isn't fulfilled, or causes veterans to ask the whys and hows as to why that particular installment is better then previous installments.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know what I would like?

A new Fire Emblem.

 

[Mirron]

Same. It'll be a while until we get one though. Probably not until next year, not counting the SMT x FE thing, though no info on that for a while now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know what I would like?

A new Fire Emblem.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Still say the next game shouldn't leech off Fire Emblem: Awakening.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Would even settle for remakes, starting with FE2. It´d be so easy creating 3 extremely succesful games with this approach. Link FE4 & 5 into one game, FE6 & 7 then FE9 & 10.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

A crossover doesn't qulify as a new Fire Emblem game, We really need a new world a new continent that rival Tellius and Jugdral..