You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[The Light Music Club]

May I ask, and it's probably been asked before, what makes Chrom and Lucina original compared to the 2 Fire Emblem Characters from Brawl? I haven't played Awakening, because I'm just finishing up Radiant Dawn so I don't really know.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

May I ask, and it's probably been asked before, what makes Chrom and Lucina original compared to the 2 Fire Emblem Characters from Brawl? I haven't played Awakening, because I'm just finishing up Radiant Dawn so I don't really know.

Not that much really. Chrom would play similarly to Ike, while Lucina would play similarly to Marth.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Not that much really. Chrom would play similarly to Ike, while Lucina would play similarly to Marth.

Hence why Micaiah, Robin, or Lyn should be the new rep.

 

[False Sense]

May I ask, and it's probably been asked before, what makes Chrom and Lucina original compared to the 2 Fire Emblem Characters from Brawl? I haven't played Awakening, because I'm just finishing up Radiant Dawn so I don't really know.

Well, to be perfectly frank, Chrom and Lucina aren't that different compared to Marth and Ike. Chrom (and by extension, Lucina) is a direct descendent of Marth, and uses his same sword as his main weapon. On top of that, he uses the Aether ability Ike has as his signature skill. Lucina, being Chrom's daughter, inherits these traits, and is also explicitly stated to fight the exact same way Chrom does. I suppose my opinion may be biased because I'm a Robin supporter, but one of the main reasons I support him over Chrom is directly because of the fact that Chrom is so similar to Marth and Ike. If he were to be implemented in Smash, they would probably have to go out of their way to make him unique from the two. Now that's certainly far from impossible, but the way I see it, they'd have to be very original with his moveset and playstyle, or give him something like a Stance Change feature where he could alternate between using a sword and a spear (something he can do in later stages of the game, but is not at all highlighted. It's similar to how Ike can use axes towards the end of Radiant Dawn). To me, that just seems like too much effort being put into making a character NOT a clone. Again though, I might be somewhat biased, but that's my stance on the matter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I did make a unique moveset for him if that's what you're talking about haha. Although that's just for a stand-alone Chrom (no Lucina tag-team), and doesn't utilize his lance or shield.

EDIT: Actually the shield is used for one attack

I would like to see this moveset.

 

[Niko Mar]

I would like to see this moveset.

It's in the Chrom thread, right below Opposum's.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's in the Chrom thread

 

[Hong]

My only question is:

Hong, where have you been!

I was receiving too much attention so I ducked out for a bit. No offence to anyone, though it has always made me uncomfortable.

Hey Hong.

I finally embraced the chrom, blame @ Niko Mar

and the tactician, I can't fight the good fight anymore Xeno.

I'll just settle for PM lyn and just await the awakening newcomer.

I figured with Little Mac's reveal, Lyn hopefuls would have been feeling great.

 

[Jaedrik]

Don't believe in this unavoidable crap, believe in what you actually want.

Don't you put any stock in this 'destiny' hogwash!



I must point out the incredible irony that many supporters of Chrom have.
It's clearly a motif of the game that anything can change and that they're challenging fate, but they seem to think he's inevitable!

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I was receiving too much attention so I ducked out for a bit. No offence to anyone, though it has always made me uncomfortable.
I figured with Little Mac's reveal, Lyn hopefuls would have been feeling great.

Yeah yeah, AT into PC status.

But the boxing ring stage.... Arena Ferox isn't that..... if the FE stage was generic or if we saw the Wii U stage and it wasn't ike's turf, i'd be more hopeful.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Quick random question, why is there a Sothe trophy in SSBB and not a Micaiah one? Heck they also have Elincia, Ashnard, and The Black Knight.

 

[False Sense]

Quick random question, why is there a Sothe trophy in SSBB and not a Micaiah one? Heck they also have Elincia, Ashnard, and The Black Knight.

I have absolutely no idea.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Quick random question, why is there a Sothe trophy in SSBB and not a Micaiah one? Heck they also have Elincia, Ashnard, and The Black Knight.

I think it's because Brawl took more from FE9 than FE10.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I think it's because Brawl took more from FE9 than FE10.

But Sothe has his Radiant Dawn grown up model.

However that might be good, meaning Micaiah could get her first real chance of being in SSB

 

[Robert of Normandy]

But Sothe has his Radiant Dawn grown up model.

Well then....I dunno.

 

[Hong]

Quick random question, why is there a Sothe trophy in SSBB and not a Micaiah one? Heck they also have Elincia, Ashnard, and The Black Knight.

They all had a relationship with Ike in some way.

Elincia was friend-zoned by Ike.
With Soren being Ike's waifu, Ashnard is effectively his step father.
The Black Knight beat Ike's daddy.
Ike is the father of Sothes children.

Anything else you would like me to knock out of the park?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't you put any stock in this 'destiny' hogwash!



I must point out the incredible irony that many supporters of Chrom have.
It's clearly a motif of the game that anything can change and that they're challenging fate, but they seem to think he's inevitable!

This is why this support doesn't make sense, because people are ironically falling into fate despite the whole point is to defy fate.

This is why "The future doesn't belong to you!" will always be better then "Anything can change!".

 

[The Light Music Club]

They all had a relationship with Ike in some way.

Elincia was friend-zoned by Ike.
With Soren being Ike's waifu, Ashnard is effectively his step father.
The Black Knight beat Ike's daddy.
Ike is the father of Sothes children.

Anything else you would like me to knock out of the park?

Sure. If they are all related to Ike, how come there wasn't a single on related to Marth?

 

[Hong]

Sure. If they are all related to Ike, how come there wasn't a single on related to Marth?

Marth, Roy and Ike are brothers. I thought we established this as early as Melee.

 

[Soupenomics]

Marth, Roy and Ike are brothers. I thought we established this as early as Melee.

Yeah, and Little Mac is their son.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Not that much really. Chrom would play similarly to Ike, while Lucina would play similarly to Marth.

There is, like.

No reason at all that this statement is true.

I was able to make an extremely unique Lucina moveset, @ Hong has a few Chrom ones and neither of us took that long in coming up with them. There are also false equivalencies here: Lucina has Chrom's fighting style, which is heavily stressed in the game. But people say Chrom is an Ike replacement while Lucina is a Marth clone, when Ike and Marth have extremely distinct playstyles. Additionally, Aether is as much a signature skill for Lucina as it is for Chrom, because they both have Lord as their default class.

Sakurai made some odd decisions with the Brawl engine and balance, but coming up with creative movesets is something he's very good at. When he wasn't trying to make a Marth clone, we got Ike. We've also got Rosaluma, Mega Man, Little Mac (who everyone said had no moveset potential) this time round, in addition to extremely well-designed veterans like Marth, Captain "No-Moveset-Inspiration-From-Actual-Game" Falcon and Fox. Frankly, if he can make a moveset for Mr. Game and Watch, he can make a moveset for anything.

tl;dr They are all unique characters with unique styles and great moveset potential. Who gets chosen simply comes down to whoever the hell Sakurai picks. Some of us on this thread want to certain characters over others based simply on that - characterization. I enjoy Lucina's character and like various others, consider Chrom too bland, ill-developed and a simple "generic noble FE Lord" archetype. Others disagree and prefer Chrom, etc. And we all like Ike.

tl;dr2 The moveset argument has never held any water, don't pretend it does.

 

[Glyphoscythe]

I'd also like to add that even though Aether is a shared skill, Ike's version looks completely different from Chrom's. It doesn't mean they'd have the same moves. To me, it highlights how their fighting styles are different.

 

[DoubleYooToo]

Marth, Roy and Ike are brothers. I thought we established this as early as Melee.

Don't forget Link

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'd also like to add that even though Aether is a shared skill, Ike's version looks completely different from Chrom's. It doesn't mean they'd have the same moves. To me, it highlights how their fighting styles are different.

I think it more highlights that IS are lazy f***s who didn't want to come up with special skill animations like in FE9/10.

Thought it's hard to blame them, given the sheer number of different weapon and class combinations they'd have to deal with.

 

[Hong]

I think it more highlights that IS are lazy f***s who didn't want to come up with special skill animations like in FE9/10.

Thought it's hard to blame them, given the sheer number of different weapon and class combinations they'd have to deal with.

Basically.

I can understand them not wanting to have the animation for every single possible circumstance, but at the very least the animation should be proper for close-quarters combat with a sword equipped.

We know Chrom and Lucina are capable of performing Aether as Ike has. We have seen Lucina do a rather technical reverse Aether, and we have seen Chrom perform his own athletic feats. If either appear in Smash Bros, it's not unreasonable for them to be able to do the same.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Little Mac (who everyone said had no moveset potential)

Those people were idiots.

"A BOXER IN A FIGHTING GAME CANNOT HAVE A MOVESET LOL THAT'S ABSURD THAT HAS NEVER BEEN PULLED OFF BEFORE".

You know how many times I had to explain the complications of boxing, the varying types of punches, and the fact that this sort of thing has been pulled off before with characters like Balrog.

 

[Hong]

That ****** took my Eirika moveset, no less. :'(

 

[FlareHabanero]

That ****er took my Eirika moveset, no less. :'(

Eirika confirmed for boxer.

 

[Hong]

Eirika confirmed for boxer.

Little Macdoes seem to have some 'Rog elements. I took a fair bit of inspiration from Boxer and Dudley for my Eirika moveset, since I felt that was a niche that Smash Bros was severely lacking.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Little Macdoes seem to have some 'Rog elements. I took a fair bit of inspiration from Boxer and Dudley for my Eirika moveset, since I felt that was a niche that Smash Bros was severely lacking.

It would make sense that he would have similarities to the likes of Dudley and Balrog, because Little Mac is a boxer. Little Mac as a whole seems to be highly inspired by traditional fighting game characters, to the point of including a power meter and limit break attack. It sort of reminds me of Lucario in Project M, who was also designed with fight game mechanics.

 

[jaytalks]

I think it more highlights that IS are lazy f***s who didn't want to come up with special skill animations like in FE9/10.

Thought it's hard to blame them, given the sheer number of different weapon and class combinations they'd have to deal with.

Basically.

I can understand them not wanting to have the animation for every single possible circumstance, but at the very least the animation should be proper for close-quarters combat with a sword equipped.

We know Chrom and Lucina are capable of performing Aether as Ike has. We have seen Lucina do a rather technical reverse Aether, and we have seen Chrom perform his own athletic feats. If either appear in Smash Bros, it's not unreasonable for them to be able to do the same.

There is also the fact it's also available to Lucina's sisters in Morgan, Kjelle, and Cynthia. His lone son, Brady, and one of my faves from the game, is the only child of Chrom's to not inherit Aether (which sucks). So there's that too.

I didnt really mind the lack of an Aether animation but I understand why some people might. For me, it seems like that variation of Aether is still Ike's signature move (ignoring all the GBA heroes of course). Lucina and Chrom could use their actions in the FMV in Fire Emblem Awakening. In fact, I think I used those for my recovery moves for both characters.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

There is also the fact it's also available to Lucina's sisters in Morgan, Kjelle, and Cynthia. His lone son, Brady, and one of my faves from the game, is the only child of Chrom's to not inherit Aether (which sucks). So there's that too.

Ahem.

 

[jaytalks]

Ahem.

oh my bad. Inigo doesnt get it as well. As usual, I forgot about him.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Ahem.

Also, Morgan doesn't inherit Aether when Chrom's child. yet when Lucina's Morgan does inherit it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Also, Morgan doesn't inherit Aether when Chrom's child. yet when Lucina's Morgan does inherit it.

That's because Aether is only inherited by girls.

Interestingly, Aether/Rightful king is inherited by Chrom's children regardless of whether he's learned it or equipped him.

 

[New_Dumal]

One thing that is annoying me is this topic is the argument :

"I did a really unique moveset for him/her".

No one ever should doubt this. A characther MUST be too bad for a supporter don't make him a unique moveset.
Sakurai does for R.O.B with the simple fact that he is a robot and taking 3 or 4 references from him as a acessory;
In the end, all what matter is "Sakurai moveset".And he's showing progress from the last games (Villager and Rosalina are great exemples).

I could make a decent moveset for Rolf, my favorite archer from FE and I really think another zoner(spam) character should be fun, good to frustrate some players.
But I will never claim Rolf's chances.

From this , Lucina and Chrom could have a nice moveset.
But are them good choices ? I don't think so.
Sothe (Sakurai apparently likes him) , Micaiah, Robin (with sword and magic), Hector (while I don't like him) and even Soren has more potential as a different FE REPRESENTATION.
Again, the character representation (and I agree with the "hot character" stuff) is what matters.
Moveset (I understand your hobby but...) is Sakurai job.

 

[Niko Mar]

One thing that is annoying me is this topic is the argument :


No one ever should doubt this. A characther MUST be too bad for a supporter don't make him a unique moveset.
Sakurai does for R.O.B with the simple fact that he is a robot and taking 3 or 4 references from him as a acessory;
In the end, all what matter is "Sakurai moveset".And he's showing progress from the last games (Villager and Rosalina are great exemples).

I could make a decent moveset for Rolf, my favorite archer from FE and I really think another zoner(spam) character should be fun, good to frustrate some players.
But I will never claim Rolf's chances.

From this , Lucina and Chrom could have a nice moveset.
But are them good choices ? I don't think so.
Sothe (Sakurai apparently likes him) , Micaiah, Robin (with sword and magic), Hector (while I don't like him) and even Soren has more potential as a different FE REPRESENTATION.
Again, the character representation (and I agree with the "hot character" stuff) is what matters.
Moveset (I understand your hobby but...) is Sakurai job.

It really comes down to what happens to be.

If Awakening's main character was like Sothe, or even a red-haired lance wielding protagonist with an extremely interesting personality, things would be different. Ironically, it truly isn't Sakurai or any of his team that decide on these characters, but Intelligent Systems who happen to make their next hot-selling game contain a character very much alike to previous ones (that just happen to have been chosen for Smash characters).

 

[The Light Music Club]

One thing that is annoying me is this topic is the argument :


No one ever should doubt this. A characther MUST be too bad for a supporter don't make him a unique moveset.
Sakurai does for R.O.B with the simple fact that he is a robot and taking 3 or 4 references from him as a acessory;
In the end, all what matter is "Sakurai moveset".And he's showing progress from the last games (Villager and Rosalina are great exemples).

I could make a decent moveset for Rolf, my favorite archer from FE and I really think another zoner(spam) character should be fun, good to frustrate some players.
But I will never claim Rolf's chances.

From this , Lucina and Chrom could have a nice moveset.
But are them good choices ? I don't think so.
Sothe (Sakurai apparently likes him) , Micaiah, Robin (with sword and magic), Hector (while I don't like him) and even Soren has more potential as a different FE REPRESENTATION.
Again, the character representation (and I agree with the "hot character" stuff) is what matters.
Moveset (I understand your hobby but...) is Sakurai job.

I'm hoping we get a Sothe assist trophy because it makes Micaiah's chances sky rocket IMO.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

One thing that is annoying me is this topic is the argument :

Good for you.

No one is justifying Chrom or Lucina's inclusion because they can have a unique moveset. However, too many people seem to think that Chrom and Lucina, if they were to be in the game, would be clones of Marth/Roy and play too similarly, and thus write them off are poor choices or write off their chances entirely. The argument isn't that they're good because they could have a unique moveset; my argument is that they will not be clones/poor fighters if included.

As for the rest of your post ... whatever. Hector is my favorite Lord in the series but I do not for a moment believe he has a snowball's chance in Hell to be in Smash. So I'm rooting for my actual favorite character who does have a chance, regardless of how many ignorant forum-goers think she's a crossdressing Marth and continue to insult one of my favorite franchises and characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, Fire Emblem is one of my favorite franchises, but the fact at the moment the strongest choice is Chrom it feels like the series is being cheated of something more grand. I don't want Fire Emblem to be emphasized as the franchise that offers nothing but the same type of character for every passing game, that would feel absolutely wrong. Like I mentioned before, it's like we're getting a new Pokemon and the best thing to offer was Dedenne.