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You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

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Mirron

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Eh, it would be hard to cuddle with someone I didn't like somewhat in that fashion for me. Though if it was just hanging out the numbers would be pretty large, lots of fun characters.

And yeah, I like the hubba tester. That you can pair up anyone with anyone at least shows IS didn't forget entirely, it just wasn't done this game. Which has me hopeful for the next one.
 

FlareHabanero

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Alright. *knuckle crack* *neck crack* It's boom time.

The idea for this moveset came to me a few months ago while playing Awakening. Lucina had proc'd an Aether, and as I saw the animation I realized that the first hit of Aether was identical to Wolf's side-smash, but with a sword.

Wolf's Side-Smash with a disjoint.

Wolf's side-smash with a disjoint.

WOLF WITH A SWORD

Marth was all about proper spacing, reacting to DI out of his wonderful grab game to land an early tip and an early kill, plus low-percent kills with his amazing edgeguard game and infamous Ken Combo. Ike in Brawl was all about slow, measured advances and reading your opponent to land a big move at just the right time. (Which is completely unfaithful to canon, but was a very interesting fighting style. I tried to play him rushdown anyway, hehe).

Lucina is intended as a straightforward rushdown Fire Emblemnier. No sweetspot on her sword, no sudden bursts of damage, just a powerful combo game and juggle game. Good run speed, good airspeed and a strong focus on keeping your opponent in the air to rack up steady damage before landing one of her potent finishers. Much inspiration is taken from Wolf, both the Brawl and P:M iteration, as well as aspects of P:M's Fire Emblem character tweaks.

With that explained, let's talk moves.

Jab - Singular. No jab combo, one hit like Ganon or P:M Charizard. It's a quick forward horizontal swipe with sizeable knockback, but not really approaching a kill or gimp move - the angle it sends people is too high for a semi spike and too low to continue combos. Think 25 degrees. It's a good spacing and poking tool slightly on the slower side of her moves, but is perfect set-up for a dash attack. Almost a true combo at sufficient damage (and thus sufficient hitstun).

Dash Attack - Lucina has a very fast initial dash, the kind that lends itself to a great DACUS (should the mechanic still exist) and transfers momentum well to a short hop, allowing her good reach with her aerials. The dash attack itself is an uppercut. Falchion starts pointed at the ground and is slashed upwards in a long stroke that ends with Falchion pointed skyward. This is by itself a powerful juggling tool and there is no good escape with DI, as it sends at a near 80 degree angle and Lucina always has a guaranteed follow-up provided her player reacts properly. It's similar in Wolf's to function and speed, but is much safer when spaced properly due to the disjoint and is thus much harder to punish on shield.

Up-Tilt or Up+A - Lucina stabs straight up. It has good reach, a deceptively wide hitbox, quick start-up and low endlag as well low knockback and growth. Good follow up to certain DI of Dash attack, can combo into itself if opponent is not paying attention and at low percents, even if they are. It sends almost directly vertically up, but not much, and is pretty much another 50/50 DI trap.

Side-Tilt or Side + A - Lucina stabs straight ahead. Amazing reach and great spacing and poking tool, pathetic combo tool. Not enough knockback to kill, too much knockback to combo. Amazing edgeguarding tool, however (one of her only options) and it can be angled. The angle it sends at is also much more favorable for gimps than her jab, sending almost exactly horizontal (so not a true semi-spike, but stuffs a lot of recoveries well.) It would knock Ike into his dead-zone, and Falco would be boned if knocked out of his Phantasm. Similar in animation but different in function to Roy's P:M F-Tilt.

Down-Tilt or Down + A - One of Lucina's few non-disjointed moves, and one of her flashier ones. Lucina stabs Falchion into the ground and uses it as a pivot as she does a leg sweep. The endlag of the move is low in spite of the animation, and the attack pops people up for a strong follow up with Fair, USmash, Utilt, FTilt or even jab. It lacks shield stun, as much reach as her sword moves and a disjoint, however, and so is pretty unsafe on block. The move must be carefully spaced and carefully used.

Up Smash - This is an interesting, double hitting move. Lucina sweeps Falcion in an arc over her head, covering the area in front of her, above her and behind her, an arc taller and narrower than Ike's own up-smash. The move continues however, as Lucina carries her momentum into a second arc, spinning a full 360 degrees to complete the move. The first hit is a weaker pop-up that links into the second, strong hit. Up-smash is good for beating spot-dodges and the strong hit has considerable shield pushback and stun, but a poorly spaced USmash can be punished with a well-timed grab right after the weak hit. It functions as a good vertical killer at above mid percents, but at high percents the weak hit sends opponents too far out at an awkward, 45 degree angle without too much stun, letting people both DI out of and react to possible follow-ups. It's a versatile move than needs to be used only in the right instances.

Side Smash - The move that started it all. Lucina slides forward a considerable distance with Falchion in front of her and parallel to the ground, smiting her foes with probably one of the most ridiculously good side smashes in the game. Safe on shield when properly spaced, good power and amazing reach. The 45 degree angle it sends at is ideal neither for gimping nor killing, but it's a potent combo finisher and good kill move at high percents.

Down Smash - A ludicrously fast move with oddly short range. Lucina rests Falchion on her left shoulder for a moment (I'm assumig she's right-handed) then whips it down in a blisteringly fast diagonal cut, the blade striking the area in front of her leg. The move does not strike behind and thus does not punish rolls like most down-smashes; it is a close range "get off me" move than can follow a spot-dodge to punish a whiffed grab. Closer to Lucina the move knocks the opponent quite far at a 60 degree angle (too much knockback for a confirmed follow-up) but at its farthest point from Lucina, the move has a strong meteor. A properly spaced DSmash can cover a ledge sweetspot and end a recovering opponent's life very early. It is of course marvelously difficult to land.

Up Air - Think Meta Knight, or P:M Wolf, but more range. A quick move with low knockback and a wide arc above Lucina's head perfect for juggle strings. The end lag on the move is low enough to allow a waveland after a shorthop in a P:M-esque environment (so not SSB4, but just a note). Can lead into an aerial finisher if DI is followed well.

Down Air - Lucina pulls her legs up to her torso and sweeps the Falchion below her, front to back, in a mirror image of her up-air. The backwards arc of the move sends the opponent at a semi-spike angle, making Dair her best edge-guarding tool and great option for covering the ledge, as well as her best ledgedrop option to gimp low recoveries. One of her laggier moves and not too valuable on stage besides escaping the juggle combos of her enemies, it is still fast enough to allow a Lucina that jumps off the stage backwards and dairs to grab the ledge with a double jump.

Forward-Air - This is the most pathetic combo move Lucina possesses, but that's because it's her best kill option. Lucina spins around in the air once, building up momentum into a sweeping horizontal swing in front of her. The power is comparable to Ike's bair, with the hitbox reaching a little farther and the move having more start-up and so requiring better timing and commitment.

Back-Air - Lucina sweeps Falchion behind her, down to up to cover a wide arc. The move is a weak hit that pops up and continues combos, good for catching opponents that DI behind her but absolutely pathetic at edgeguarding. Ledgedrop bair may actually SAVE your opponent due to the vertical momentum you provide them.

Neutral Air - Lucina does a somersault with Falchion held out ahead of her, remeniscent of Ike's Aether. The move hits in front of her twice: Once when it begins and second when it comes back around at the end of the somersault. The second hit of the neutral air is a strong semi-spike, much like Sheik's fair in Melee. Neutral Air being one of her slower moves must be timed and spaced right. The first forward hit knocks people away and does not link into the second forward hit, but can continue some combos. Nair hits behind Lucina as well.

Up-Special - This was one I struggled with. I saw the idea elsewhere and liked it: The animation is a lot like Marth's Dolphin Slash but without the kill power in the initial frames (she doesn't need it). If she strikes an enemy, however, she does not go into special fall (maximum once per airtime, needs to land again to refresh this. A second Up-B always sends Lucina into special fall.) The initial frames also have a strong windbox, making it a good anti-pressure option, a good OoS option if you could jump out of shield and a lulzy situational edgeguarding option. Name: Galeforce.

Neutral Special - Lucina concentrates with her eyes closed, as Falchion glows held in front of her, revitalizing her as it slowly heals her. Referance to Falchion's use in-game, looooong end-lag to only really make it viable to use between stocks (though with Lucina's ability to keep opponents in the air and knock them off-stage, she probably can find enough opportunities to use it.) Rate of healing: Slow but continuous.

Side-Special - Aether. Except, not Ike's. Lucina glows bright gold as she dashes a considerable horizontal distance on the ground or in the air (about 75% melee final destination) with her sword held out, similar to her side smash. She goes into special fall at the end of this move. Additionally, it must be noted that the sword cannot sweetspot the ledge, not being her hand, and so recovering Lucina must aim for a bit above the ledge in order to grab it. This makes her more vulnerable to edgeguards.

HOWEVER. If Lucina strikes an opponent, she has a window of opportunity to press B again. This instantaneously activates the Luna hit, which involves a semi-teleport behind the person faster than the eye can follow, striking with a powerful slash that is a strong meteor. Hitting with the Luna hit also prevents special fall. This makes going out to edgeguard Lucina dangerous. Additionally, meteors have disproportionate hitstun on grounded opponents that they pop up, so Aether is actually a perfect set up for a kill move, like fair. Getting past defenses indeed. This move is also hilariously safe on block because of the Luna putting Lucina behind shielding opponents.

This just leaves grabs and taunts, which I will finish later because I am late for lunch.
Welp, OP delivered on his word.

For a bit of clarification, but I did always like Lucina more then Chrom because of her being more of a developed character and being all majestic and stuff. Bite me.

The concept of a straightforward rush down character, a character that doesn't bull**** with details and just goes for the kill, yeah that is something I can get behind. But you do go out of your way to give up plenty of details about the attacks and the strengths and weaknesses and such, which is the type of thing I always adore. So thank you for going into detail, it always great to actually go into details about why a character can be good, instead of straying off the path.
 

•Col•

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Welp, OP delivered on his word.

For a bit of clarification, but I did always like Lucina more then Chrom because of her being more of a developed character and being all majestic and stuff. Bite me.

The concept of a straightforward rush down character, a character that doesn't bull**** with details and just goes for the kill, yeah that is something I can get behind. But you do go out of your way to give up plenty of details about the attacks and the strengths and weaknesses and such, which is the type of thing I always adore. So thank you for going into detail, it always great to actually go into details about why a character can be good, instead of straying off the path.
So uh, not to be a spoilsport, but like just about any character could use 99% of that moveset if they have a sword..

Not to say that it's a bad moveset per se, but like.. Why should Lucina get into Smash 4 with such a moveset over say, Chrom, or even (enter several other sword users here)?
 

FlareHabanero

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So uh, not to be a spoilsport, but like just about any character could use 99% of that moveset if they have a sword..

Not to say that it's a bad moveset per se, but like.. Why should Lucina get into Smash 4 with such a moveset over say, Chrom, or even (enter several other sword users here)?
It's more about actually giving a damn about gameplay.

You how ****ing annoying people just toss aside gameplay like it's nothing? It's nice someone is actually explaining how a character will work, instead of just blabbing on and on about irrelevant fan ****.

Also Chrom sucks. Also, You seem to think anyone with a sword will function the exact same way.

Inb4 we need moar females in Smash. :troll:
We need more dragons on the roster, not females.
 

Mirron

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I would like to see a manakete be playable, if just because they're an iconic part of the series. The best choice for that is probably Tiki, but I don't see it happening.

And honestly I find the question about why it'd be a specific Lucina moveset to be pretty applicable. Though not like Marth/Ike are very specific to themselves either.
 

Hong

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I think, in my opinion at least, Chrom will make it. Though Gregor would make fine choice in game that Smash no? I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan, and would love to see a lot of representation of the series in Smash (Relative to other smash games). My calls for Smash 4? Chrom is playable, Grima is the representative stage. Hopes? Another character, (Olivia, Nowi, Gerome, Inigo, Lon'Qu etc) as an assist trophy and Gregor as a hilarious playable. XD

Also, I can offer help on FE Awakening play through's. I've found some funny shenanigans for character sets. (Ex my "Galeforce loophole" and my "Infinite weapon loophole", both of which aren't too much of secrets. :laugh:)

What say you?
I say Chrom is indeed the best thing they could add to this game. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero Immensely original character that is not only unique, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero but is basically guaranteed in the game because Intelligent Systems said he is the best character based on their poll. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero In my opinion, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero Chrom should be the main character of Super Smash Bros. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero

After the product ships, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero they can make,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero like,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero a Smash Bros anime,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero and Chrom can be a main character,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero you know? @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero He is just so cool and easy to relate to. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero

@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero
Aww, blushing Chrom is so cute. *huggles*
Gods you are so cute. Just take me now, but let's make sure we wait until Ike Sama is here first.
And I loved Sacred Stones myself. It interests me a lot. Lyon was a great character, tragic villains always make me sad
I agree. It was a heart-wretching tale, and I love how they slowly exposed the grim reality of it.

Also, while Eirika did not have the most flamboyant personality, I like that she grew. She was never weak or held the story back, she was always brave and pushing forward. That said, she started out as the most gullible lord, and we got to see some of Seth's sharpness rub off on her.

Just going to say if they had Soren there, he would have had her all the wiser in like one chapter. :b
 

Mirron

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I am? And alright. *huggles Hong* :p And I do like Ike too.

On less silly notes, Sacred Stones was probably the saddest Fire Emblem for me. Though Radiant Dawn was pretty sad the first time, it can change on subsequent playthroughs which I liked. I kind of wish there had been something like that in Sacred Stones, even if it would have ruined the melancholy. But Lyon is the one who I'd cite time and time again when it comes to Dark Magic being used for good, Knoll's support with the priestess whom I'm drawing a blank on shows quite a bit.

And I hope they show us more new characters soon. I'm really antsy to see how Fire Emblem representation pans out either way. I can't see us only getting Marth, but I'm not sure if we'll keep Ike, or add someone else, or any number of things.
 

Hong

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And I hope they show us more new characters soon. I'm really antsy to see how Fire Emblem representation pans out either way. I can't see us only getting Marth, but I'm not sure if we'll keep Ike, or add someone else, or any number of things.
 

FlareHabanero

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I say Chrom is indeed the best thing they could add to this game. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero Immensely original character that is not only unique, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero but is basically guaranteed in the game because Intelligent Systems said he is the best character based on their poll. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero In my opinion, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero Chrom should be the main character of Super Smash Bros. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero

After the product ships, @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero they can make,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero like,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero a Smash Bros anime,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero and Chrom can be a main character,@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero you know? @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero He is just so cool and easy to relate to. @ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero

@ FlareHabanero FlareHabanero
Look, if you want a date with me, just say it, alright?
 

Fire Emblemier

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So uh, not to be a spoilsport, but like just about any character could use 99% of that moveset if they have a sword..

Not to say that it's a bad moveset per se, but like.. Why should Lucina get into Smash 4 with such a moveset over say, Chrom, or even (enter several other sword users here)?
The same could be said if you want Ike to use Marth's move-set, and Marth use Ike's moveset, anyone with a sword could use any style they want if they really wanted. Like Xeno said it's the gameplay that counts. Lucina has loads more advertising than Chrom, from being on the OST, and etc. which is a plus. She is more popular in most polls Awakening and Fire Emblem lords a like. Lucina tied with Ike for #2 most popular lord on Manly Spirit's poll, even. Chrom for most people is merely expected rather than truly wanted. Lucina on the other hand, while not being as expected as Chrom and etc. is put on rosters for her pluses such as her popularity, prominence, and much more.
 
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Hong

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I honestly don't see why Lucina shouldn't be taking every solo!Chrom moveset for herself.

It was the first thing that came to mind when I actually discovered Lucina, but I had my doubts. We could argue confusion for the base end-user was an issue, but no longer.

Marth now looks as different from Lucina as Marth did from Ike in Brawl. Blue hair, tiara, that's it. Yeah, i am exaggerating right now, but it's not hard to have enough visual contrast to tell them apart. At worst people will ask if they are supposed to be sister and brother, which they did with Roy and Marth, anyways. Now I loathe when people jump to conclusions, so I am not going to do that, but I am just going to say that they could have had Lucina in mind when they chose the palette and profile of Marth.

If that's not enough, since Lucina under her actual name is not a starter lord, they are free to have her as a Great Lord if they wish, as to better visually justify having more weight than Marth if need-be.
 

Hong

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Which makes me question why people are going after Chrom...
Not like I would be mad if he was added.

I don't have to get EXACTLY what I wanted to be happy. I'll take ANY Fire Emblem character if they can make them fun.

I am happy with Rosalina. I never wanted her, and I still don't want her now and would like her moveset on another character. That said, I still like that she is there and available.
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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Marth's moveset isn't even unique to him :p Roy's moveset was largely Marth's with values adjusted, a different sweetspot location and different physics. Ike's P:M moveset is truer to him than his vBrawl one.

Point being, I liked Lucina because she is a more interesting character and so I made a moveset for her. (Oh, I'm calling her Neutral B 'Rightful King', btw. Notice a theme with her specials? And Down-B is counter, goes without saying.) Perhaps every move she has does not scream COPYRIGHT LUCINA ONLY but you know what? Neither to Ike, Roy and Marth's movesets. Additionally, she does have aspects unique to her - shoutout to her Aether animation, her neutral B animation in my head looks similar to

Lucina's Awakening at the end of the DLC Future Past III, with Falchion glowing and such

and no-nonsense speedy murder rushdown is her character in a nutshell, with her having above-average but not earth-shattering strength and amazing speed and skill more or less regardless of her mother. And with Sumia supported by canon, Lucina's going to be fast. You can't look at the moveset and say that it doesn't fit Lucina, and it possesses some of her signature qualities as well.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Which makes me question why people are going after Chrom...
The best I can say is that he's the main character of the game, which Lucina and Robin, are partially also. Yet, I don't want to get into Robin mostly because he's starting to get as stale as corn.

The one big argument that doesn't refer to Lucina being a Marth clone, is Lucina being a walking spoiler, but :sheik: is a spoiler also. So it really isn't that big of a flaw.
 

Hong

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Marth's moveset isn't even unique to him :p Roy's moveset was largely Marth's with values adjusted, a different sweetspot location and different physics. Ike's P:M moveset is truer to him than his vBrawl one.

Point being, I liked Lucina because she is a more interesting character and so I made a moveset for her. (Oh, I'm calling her Neutral B 'Rightful King', btw. Notice a theme with her specials? And Down-B is counter, goes without saying.) Perhaps every move she has does not scream COPYRIGHT LUCINA ONLY but you know what? Neither to Ike, Roy and Marth's movesets. Additionally, she does have aspects unique to her - shoutout to her Aether animation, her neutral B animation in my head looks similar to

Lucina's Awakening at the end of the DLC Future Past III, with Falchion glowing and such

and no-nonsense speedy murder rushdown is her character in a nutshell, with her having above-average but not earth-shattering strength and amazing speed and skill more or less regardless of her mother. And with Sumia supported by canon, Lucina's going to be fast. You can't look at the moveset and say that it doesn't fit Lucina, and it possesses some of her signature qualities as well.
Seems to be a common desire. My Chrom also emphasizes a purely offensive character. Like yours, I also had an approach Special, as well as Rightful King.
 

Mirron

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I really like Rosalina myself. She was the Mario character I wanted most, with the same moveset even. But yeah, most any Fire Emblem character would be good, though I have quite a few I'd really like to see in. Ideally though I'd like to see as many games be represented.

I will say that Lucina herself doesn't have to be a spoiler. Just her existence isn't going to spoil exactly who she is and her connection to the plot. At best it ruins the Masked Marth reveal.
 

FlareHabanero

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Not like I would be mad if he was added.

I don't have to get EXACTLY what I wanted to be happy. I'll take ANY Fire Emblem character if they can make them fun.
I guess I'm just spoiled then, because I'm like the opposite.

Really picky with the characters, which is weird because I really love Fire Emblem, but at the same time I value diversity. So naturally I deny the ones that are actually talked about.
 

FlareHabanero

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I will admit that the interchangeable nature of these movesets kind of creates a preference of character.

It's like, do you want Chrom or Lucina?

...hmm...



Problem solved.
 

Mirron

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I like the Chrom/Lucina combo, looks interesting. I'd still prefer Robin overall as a playable character.
 

Hong

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Between Lucario, Toon Link, Olimar and Sonic, the bar has been set low.
 

Croph

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I'm really glad Lucario got confirmed...

C'mon Ikey-poo! I know you can make it too!

omg that rhymes
 

Hong

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Sorry that we couldn't get your precious Skull Kid and Ashley in.

(Hehe, not so subtle jabbing at /v/.)
I wanted Lloid to be playable. He represents AC SO MUCH BETTER than the Villager and gyroids are WAY older than the AC series. It's just not fair.

Jokes aside, I can't think of a time I have felt boned about not having a character I wanted. Even with Lyn I was happy to have her as an Assist Trophy, and absolutely ecstatic to see Elincia as a trophy.
 
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Thane of Blue Flames

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There was this awesome moment where I was in a four way -

[feel free to quote that out of context]

- free for all in Brawl Minus, and one of my roommates cracked open an assist trophy, while my other roommate, playing Marth, got the Smash Ball.

So it was like "OH ****, LYN!! OH ****, MARTH!!" and I somehow survived, but two other people died and it was pure FE ownage.
 
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