You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Hong]

Ha ha, yeah... I think you read too much into it.

It is my wish for the unlikely event that Lucina would join Marth in the coming game. Nothing about cute poses or faces or anything. And yeah, it's just basically "pat pat".

 

[jaytalks]

Unfortunately, it may only happen in fan art.
It is extremely unlikely they will interact in such a manner in the game at all, no special victory poses, no interaction in adventure mode, nothing. That is, assuming Lucina gets in, which is a marvelous assumption in itself.
I'd rather have Anna over Lucina anyways, while not this particular style of adorable buttkicker Lucina is, she is cute.
On another interpretation, what do you mean "Let's make this happen."? You see the picture there, it already has, unless you're talking about real life? We can't do much if you're talking about Smash context.
Nice picture, btw, super cute, but what's with the question marks, and the other stuff is just the rubbing sfx, right?

I don't think Sakurai has ruled out a single player component. It just won't be the same as previous games in the series. He also said that the single player will feature a better rewards system than the cutscenes we got last game.
From the IGN interview:

"Sakurai also elaborated on single-player plans this time around. Would something like Subspace Emissary return? “At the very least, we’re thinking of maybe not implementing that sort of single-player experience like Subspace Emissary, where you play through to a conclusion and you’re rewarded with something like a movie,” Sakurai said. “We found that if you wanted to see those movies, you could just go to the internet. That sort of thing loses its appeal as a reward for the player. I can’t say concretely, but we’re thinking about removing that sort of element and coming up with a way to provide a more rewarding single-player experience in which players will be rewarded in different ways.”

 

[•Col•]

I meant the reasoning behind what made the characters iconic was based on the characters' influence on the west. Marth is iconic because his place in the series' history, not because his appearance in Smash led to the series making it to the west. Under that same train of thought, Roy is not iconic as others in the series because of his place in the franchise's history. The characters' iconic nature should come from their place in the series. Smash should reflect the iconic elements of the series, and not give credence to what is iconic about the series. Characters appearing in Smash in the west should not make them iconic; it should be based on their appearances within the Fire Emblem series.

Marth isn't iconic at all in the west outside of Smash. In terms of North America + Europe sales combined, Shadow Dragon was just about the worst selling international FE game. Perhaps even worse than Radiant Dawn.

Yeah, plenty of people recognize him as "that Fire Emblem guy" in the west.. But it's definitely only because of his Smash appearance, not his 1 Western-released game. Uh.. Unless you count Lucina's appearance as "Marth".

Also, if we're purely going on appearances within the FE series alone then Roy still beats Chrom out. First FE game on a mobile console (where the series ended up staying for the most part), takes place during the most popular arc of FE internationally (Elibe) and should be considered the most important of the four lords within the Elibe arc(whereas with Awakening importance is divided more between Chrom/Avatar/Lucina and the like) , FE6 brought in quite a few mechanics that have become mainstays of the FE serie(as an example, Support conversations).. Anyway that's just a handful of stuff of the top of my head. I got more stuff if you'd like, but for now I'm pretty tired.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Ike > Marth

topic....

 

[Jaedrik]

Ike > Marth
topic....

wut

I don't think Sakurai has ruled out a single player component. It just won't be the same as previous games in the series. He also said that the single player will feature a better rewards system than the cutscenes we got last game.

I never said anything about ruling out a single player component and know full well about that interview. When I said "no interaction in adventure mode", I meant that Marth and Lucina would not likely act in such a way in adventure mode. I was assuming it existed and postulated the function of this mode and interaction of characters with help of the knowledge of that interview. In fact, wasn't there a later interview that confirmed it would be a lot more like Melee's adventure mode? Was that the same one?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ike > Marth

Oh no, this is going to one of those topics...

 

[Oddyesy]

Now, I'm afraid to even click the link.... I mean it's even labeled "A-Bar-of-Soap".... Should I just ignore this link?

If you don't want to see your favorite characters be alcoholics/or just be all around a bad influence.

 

[Hong]

Devdan for SSB4
- Doesn't have blue hair
- Wields a lance
- Appeals to children

Plus if we get Devdan, Danved is practically a shoe-in for another wholly unique, original character, completely different from Devdan and the rest of the cast.

 

[Oddyesy]

DP

 

[jaytalks]

Marth isn't iconic at all in the west outside of Smash. In terms of North America + Europe sales combined, Shadow Dragon was just about the worst selling international FE game. Perhaps even worse than Radiant Dawn.

Yeah, plenty of people recognize him as "that Fire Emblem guy" in the west.. But it's definitely only because of his Smash appearance, not his 1 Western-released game. Uh.. Unless you count Lucina's appearance as "Marth".

Also, if we're purely going on appearances within the FE series alone then Roy still beats Chrom out. First FE game on a mobile console (where the series ended up staying for the most part), takes place during the most popular arc of FE internationally (Elibe) and should be considered the most important of the four lords within the Elibe arc(whereas with Awakening importance is divided more between Chrom/Avatar/Lucina and the like) , FE6 brought in quite a few mechanics that have become mainstays of the FE serie(as an example, Support conversations).. Anyway that's just a handful of stuff of the top of my head. I got more stuff if you'd like, but for now I'm pretty tired.

I think in terms what iconic means, Marth fits the definition better than anyone else in the series. Iconic isn't about just sales or popularity, it's about representing the series and being an icon. I don't think anyone represents Fire Emblem more than Marth, and I think Marth would have represented the classic era of Fire Emblem regardless of Smash.

As I laid it out before, Marth represent the classic generation (NES and SNES) of Fire Emblem. He establishes the lord archetype and is the first lord the series. His game also lays out the basic of the series, from the series' archetypes as well as the general feel and plot.

Ike represents the modern era of Fire Emblem, with his two lead roles (Micaiah ends up being a false protagonist by RD's end). His design reflects modern sensibilities, as he is an effective unit from the start, he does not come from royalty, and has a rough, informal fighting style etc. Roy would fit under this era, but I think Ike edges him out for the same reasons he made it into Brawl and Roy did not. Ike has more modern sensibilities in terms of design and gameplay, as well as being in an internationally released game. Being international released has been a huge part of the series after Rekka no Ken, aside from the Mystery of the Emblem remake. It's lack of international release shows the series' decline

Chrom or Lucina represent the revival era, as a result of the unfortunate other part of the Modern era: the series decline. RD declines and both of the DS remakes fail to recapture the series success. Awakening ends up being either the series swan song or saving grace (unknown to fans upon initial release). The game is both a critical and commercial success (returning the series to its 500,000 plus numbers in Japan) which leads to developers admitting the game saved the series. Instead of being cancelled, the series contributes to sales of the 3DS, and has a new crossover with SMT upcoming.

I don't want to discount either Chrom or Lucina fans by naming one over the other. I think the more iconic of the two will be more clear over time. Chrom is the game's main lord and is necessary throughout all the levels. Lucina on the other is a strong female presence for the series and represents one of the core (and most fun) gameplay mechanics. I think whoever the new fans (fans who joined the series with Awakening) pick will end up with the iconic title, much like how Hector and Lyn overshadow Eliwood (and Lyn to a greater degree).

Chrom vs Roy doesn't really factor into my thinking when it comes to whose iconic. I lay out what I see as the three generations of Fire Emblem games, and Ike beats out Roy because they are from the same generation, but Ike ends up representing that Era better.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Funny, I thought characters represented, well you know, characters. I mean, nobody is exactly playing with sales figures or history, because that would be stupid. I suppose people would want to play with something so stupid, but hey let people be the dumbest creatures alive.

 

[jaytalks]

wut


I never said anything about ruling out a single player component and know full well about that interview. When I said "no interaction in adventure mode", I meant that Marth and Lucina would not likely act in such a way in adventure mode. I was assuming it existed and postulated the function of this mode and interaction of characters with help of the knowledge of that interview. In fact, wasn't there a later interview that confirmed it would be a lot more like Melee's adventure mode? Was that the same one?

I haven't read anything about an adventure mode, but if that's true, then I would be very happy. I enjoyed adventure mode much more than the SSE. I haven't seen anything about what single player will look like, so if anyone has that, they would be great.
However, I can see a single player with cutscenes that isn't the SSE. I hope they really think out of the box with the single player for this game.

Funny, I thought characters represented, well you know, characters. I mean, nobody is exactly playing with sales figures or history, because that would be stupid. I suppose people would want to play with something so stupid, but hey let people be the dumbest creatures alive.

My original post was detailing the characters I felt were most iconic to the series. Iconic means "of, relating to, or having the character of an icon" and an icon is "an image; a representation.'' That's where the representation aspect of the conversation comes from.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I meant the reasoning behind what made the characters iconic was based on the characters' influence on the west. Marth is iconic because his place in the series' history, not because his appearance in Smash led to the series making it to the west. Under that same train of thought, Roy is not iconic as others in the series because of his place in the franchise's history. The characters' iconic nature should come from their place in the series. Smash should reflect the iconic elements of the series, and not give credence to what is iconic about the series. Characters appearing in Smash in the west should not make them iconic; it should be based on their appearances within the Fire Emblem series.

If we're going by FE alone, than Roy still has plenty of "relevance" since his game revived the series and is super popular in Japan. Not because of smash, but because they like the game.

He is a FE icon too.

Accept that.

 

[jaytalks]

If we're going by FE alone, than Roy still has plenty of "relevance" since his game revived the series and is super popular in Japan. Not because of smash, but because they like the game.

He is a FE icon too.

Accept that.

Never said he wasn't iconic, just not as iconic others. I've laid how I think about that in a post above. I split Fire Emblem into three eras. Classic, Modern, and Revival. Each has a corresponding iconic character. I think Roy fits into the Modern era, and is iconic to the series, but not more iconic than Ike to represent that era. That's all.

 

[Forde]

Roy is my favorite FE Lord. I've been playing FE since 2004 with the Sacred Stones, and have been a loyal fan since. I imported FE6 just so I could play Roy's game, even though I didn't understand the Japanese in it. Based on the translation guides I've read of it, I love the story. I gotta say the TSS is probably my 2nd favorite, or tied for 1st, but those 2 games will always be my favorites.

I loved Ike during the PoR era but never really like him as much during the RD era.

Chrom is quite an iconic character, almost being a "new" Marth in many ways, and I would love to see him be in SSB4.

Marth is just iconic as hell. He's been in a ton of a games and just overall has a really good backstory and build up behind him. I really can't see him not being in a SSB game.

I would love to see a Marth, Roy, Chrom, Ike lineup of FE Chars, you have a classic character, a GBA icon, a gamecube/wii icon, and a 3DS icon. Seems to make sense to me. Ephraim is another I'd love to see in but I doubt he'll make it in.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Devdan for SSB4
- Doesn't have blue hair
- Wields a lance
- Appeals to children

Plus if we get Devdan, Danved is practically a shoe-in for another wholly unique, original character, completely different from Devdan and the rest of the cast.

No way, Danved is OP. He fights like ten men after all.

 

[IsmaR]

I somehow didn't read what thread I was on. I should sleep sooner.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

What do you think of this drawing guys?

it took me 2 hours....

My Avatar to be :D...

 

[Fire Emblemier]

What do you think of this drawing guys?

it took me 2 hours....

My Avatar to be :D...

What happened to Ike's eye in this pic, was he stabbed there or something? Besides that nice pic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's quite awesome yeah. Not sure what's up with the eye either though.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Well I thought that is would be cool to have him one eyed, but I can actually fix right away if you want ..

 

[Hong]

"Fix it"? "If you want"?

It is your avatar, sweetie. If you made a decision because you like it that way, keep it. ^~^

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

"Fix it"? "If you want"?

It is your avatar, sweetie. If you made a decision because you like it that way, keep it. ^~^

Already did it , but thanks ...

 

[LaniusShrike]

Already did it , but thanks ...

Hmm, but have you considered making a version where he's lost both eyes?

Smash needs a blind rep.

 

[Igneous42]

Hmm, but have you considered making a version where he's lost both eyes?

Smash needs a blind rep.

I think Game and Watch is Blind, he doesn't appear to have eyes.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Found this on my PC, it's a bit tilted, but I think it's a way better representation of Ike than the original, I've done the edits back then.

 

[DraginHikari]

As far as Marth is concerned I'm not a particular huge fan of Marth even though he's iconic as far as being and using him as Melee (Mostly before I knew anything about the character). I did play through Shadow Dragon and for the most part Marth is not a particularly interesting character. Though alot of this may be that the game was too liternal of a remake of the original Famicom game.

As far as Fire Emblem characters are concern my two favorite lords right now are Lucina from Awakening and Ike. In all honesty I'd drop Marth without a second thought if I had the chance, though I am not expecting that to happen at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If I could have my 3 character roster I'd probably pick:

Ike
Hector
Ephraim

Weapon Triangle baby!

Will never happen though.

 

[Jaedrik]

I think there is a disturbing lack of Anna consideration among FE fans, and well, really everyone. While I know Fire Emblem discussions are wrought with conflict like no other and plagued by uncompromising favoritism, Anna is a great choice. She would use a lance and staffs :3. Afraid that she might bump out another FE character? . . . well, yeah, she probably would, seeing as most of us think that we're only gonna get three, but I think it's worth it, unfortunate, but worth it for such a great character.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

I think there is a disturbing lack of Anna consideration among FE fans, and well, really everyone. While I know Fire Emblem discussions are wrought with conflict like no other and plagued by uncompromising favoritism, Anna is a great choice. She would use a lance and staffs :3. Afraid that she might bump out another FE character? . . . well, yeah, she probably would, seeing as most of us think that we're only gonna get three, but I think it's worth it, unfortunate, but worth it for such a great character.

Why would she use a lance? :S

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why would she use a lance? :S

Because penis jokes gameplay diversity.

 

[Jaedrik]

Why would she use a lance? :S

Because foremost she is the merchant, and merchant classes are commonly depicted using that class of weaponry.

 

[kikaru]

Why would she use a lance? :S

Because of this. Spoilers for those who haven't played the Apotheosis DLC.

Spoiler

She's basically the secret boss with really OP skills and can also wield a lance.

Dragonskin: Halves damage and negates Counter/Lethality
Rightful God: +30% Skill activation rate.
Counter: Returns damage taken by an adjacent enemy.
Aether: Attack twice with Luna and Sol (Luna halves the enemies' defense while Sol recovers HP equal to half the damage dealt).
Vantage+: Always attacks first even if you engage first.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Because of this. Spoilers for those who haven't played the Apotheosis DLC.

Spoiler

She's basically the secret boss with really OP skills and can also wield a lance.

Dragonskin: Halves damage and negates Counter/Lethality
Rightful God: +30% Skill activation rate.
Counter: Returns damage taken by an adjacent enemy.
Aether: Attack twice with Luna and Sol (Luna halves the enemies' defense while Sol recovers HP equal to half the damage dealt).
Vantage+: Always attacks first even if you engage first.

... whoa. That's kinda scary.

Are there any good animations of what Lance combat looks like when you're unmounted? Are people basically just imagining it like it was a spear?

 

[Hong]

I don't think Anna would be restricted to what weapon she uses based on Awakening. There are a like a bajillion Annas and we don't know what they are all capable of and even then, it wouldn't matter because this is Smash Bros and not Fire Emblem.

Anna would represent a character that has been in nearly every entry in the series. A realm-travelling merchant with a thing for a pretty penny. I would expect her to wield divine weapons of every generation and every class. Bows, swords, staves, items (cards, portals, torches), etc. Characters are brought to Smash Bros based on what they can do, without having to distort their character. That is pretty reasonable for Anna, considering Smash Bros has characters using items or techniques they never had in their original games. First and foremost comes gameplay and what is fun. It would be one thing to having Ike wielding tomes and staves, but in a case like Anna, she is entirely open to interpretation and can be represented however they want.

An Anna who wields weapons from throughout Fire Emblem's history would be unlike anything we have in Smash Bros. Even characters like Pit or Link, who have weapons handed to them from the Gods, don't have anything quite like what we see in Fire Emblem. Her forward smash, for example, could pull out a hammer which would deal massive damage to shields. She could be something so cool and funny and original.

I swear people just want the most boring characters. ~.~

 

[•Col•]

If there was to be any character to represent the FE weapon triangle system (Sword>Axe>Lance>Sword) in Smash by using a variety of weapons, Anna would be the way to go.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I don't think Anna would be restricted to what weapon she uses based on Awakening. There are a like a bajillion Annas and we don't know what they are all capable of and even then, it wouldn't matter because this is Smash Bros and not Fire Emblem.

Anna would represent a character that has been in nearly every entry in the series. A realm-travelling merchant with a thing for a pretty penny. I would expect her to wield divine weapons of every generation and every class. Bows, swords, staves, items (cards, portals, torches), etc. Characters are brought to Smash Bros based on what they can do, without having to distort their character. That is pretty reasonable for Anna, consider Smash Bros has characters using items or techniques they never had in their original games. First and foremost comes gameplay and what is fun. It would be one thing to having Ike wielding tomes and staves, but in a case like Anna, she is entirely open to interpretation and can be represented however they want.

An Anna who wields weapons from throughout Fire Emblem's history would be unlike anything we have in Smash Bros. Even characters like Pit or Link, who have weapons handed to them from the Gods, don't have anything quite like what we see in Fire Emblem. Her forward smash, for example, could pull out a hammer which would deal massive damage to shields. She could be something so cool and funny and original.

I swear people just want the most boring characters. ~.~

Oh man, it could be pretty fun if she was basically like a melee-Mega Man, taking out a different weapon for each attack.

And I don't think people want the most boring characters, I think they just don't want to be disappointed by rooting for an unlikely character and watching the character get bashed all the way until the game's release where they'll be disappointed yet again.

Is there an established canon as to whether or not the Anna in all of the games is the same person? Could it be possible that she's actually officially some sort of immortal being watching over the heroes?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Every Anna is a different entity.

Think along the lines of Nurse Joy from the Pokemon anime.

 

[Hong]

And I don't think people want the most boring characters, I think they just don't want to be disappointed by rooting for an unlikely character and watching the character get bashed all the way until the game's release where they'll be disappointed yet again.

It's not that. It's just that, when I brought this Anna up before, some people insisted that she used her inherent Awakening kit of swords and staves. Not just that, sometimes people have a character they want but are deadset on them playing out in a way that offers absolutely nothing new or interesting.

Is there an established canon as to whether or not the Anna in all of the games is the same person? Could it be possible that she's actually officially some sort of immortal being watching over the heroes?

She says they are all related by blood in Awakening. They have fun family gatherings.

While not directly stated, it is heavily implied they use the outrealm to appear throughout the seven realms.

 

[Jaedrik]

Probably the touchiest subject surrounding Anna is if she deserves to get in over x y or z, I for one think there is none other more deserving, favoritism aside, because I say so, she is, go ahead, you can't deny me!

But seriously, she is the mascot of FE, I hesitate to compare to Pokemon, I think the differences are too critical in way of individual character importance. More like a combination of Pika's mascothood (while obviously not as important as anime Pika) and Nurse Joy anime version.