You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Igneous42]

But the fact that he even made it into the programming stage means that at one point Sakurai did find merit in him past marketing, which is all I was saying. And he did make it further than any of the other Forbidden 7 bar Mewtwo btw (he had more data than them).


Yeah, Lucas would've replaced Ness had Mother 64 not been canceled. Again, I was just trying to apply Chido's logic elsewhere to show how many holes it had. You're right, under different circumstances Ness would've been replaced, but under the parallel circumstances in the FE comparison, I was just using Ness to show that just because there is a more recent character that can play the same, doesn't mean the original will necessarily be replaced.


I've never said Chrom couldn't be unique, I've actually argued he could. I was just using the mentality of Chido's example, where Chrom was to replace Marth. I agree, he doesn't necessarily have to be a clone, but chances are decent he might be.



I agree, that's why I'm trying to prove replacing Marth is nonsense, even as clones they can both exist, let alone if they both had unique movesets.

I wasn't aiming that second part of that post at you that was more geared towards Chido, my bad for not making that distinction.

"Fighting for his friends and **** cause you could solo both his games with him alone."

Hell even if you're not trying to play that way it kinda happens, I remember in PoR my strategy for the final level was keep everyone safe together in the middle except Ike and have him just walk around the map one shoting things.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike was too badass for Tellius, and that's the only reason he left.

Aside from killing Ashera, Ashnard, and Zelgius, he could do this **** with Iron Swords alone most likely.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Marth will never get cut.

Yet people will still continue to be a bunch of morons.

 

[Croph]

Roy was not added in Melee to solely promote FE6, Sakurai has never mentioned that. Now, I do take the whole "Leif was considered for the FE clone before Roy" thing with a grain of salt, but I'll play. Even if Leif was considered, I do believe he had more merit to his consideration than being the most recent Lord: having significance (being playable in 2 games) and aesthetics (compared to Sigurd and Celice) are among some. But in the end, we still don't have a clear idea as to why Leif was considered, so I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of Leif being the most recent Lord was the reason why.

Anyway, it is theorized that when Sakurai was shown Roy, he reconsidered and thought that Roy would be a better choice due to his fire properties standing out. He also predicted that players would fall in love with his "charm", and he ain't wrong about that...

Roy used Charm!

It's super effective!

What I'm trying to get at: if a FE Lord other than Roy was initially considered, how was Roy added solely to promote FE6? The deciding factor was Sakurai's personal choice; he thought Roy would be more unique than the other FE candidates at the time (due to Roy's fire abilities, aesthetics, etc), not promotion. I like to think promoting FE6 was an added side bonus; in the end FE6 did get promotion, but it had nothing to do with why Roy was chosen. Roy helped to promote the Fire Emblem series as a whole, alongside with Marth.

And I'd really appreciate some clarification on this question I had:

We know that Marth and Roy were originally planned to be removed in the Western version of Melee. But was it both or was it only Marth that was going to be removed? The Melee Dojo only specifies Marth almost being removed, though it would have probably been weird to only keep Roy who's also a Japanese exclusive character. I ask this because I've heard people say that it was only Marth that was going to be removed. Unless if there's some info that I'm missing...I'm not really sure...

Why did Sakurai only mention that Marth was going to be removed in the Western version?

And is this true? Was FE6 really planned for a Western release? So many questions... lol

 

[Hong]

Marth will be cut.

Western audience thought he was a girl and there are enough sword users. Also was an inferior clone of Roy in Melee and uses an outdated Falchion.

 

[nessokman]

Marth will be cut.

Western audience thought he was a girl and there are enough sword users. Also was an inferior clone of Roy in Melee and uses an outdated Falchion.

This guy is legit, he is a smash LORD. Lord classes are always the main characters chrom and lucina likely, ike probable. I wouldn't consider it impossible for a new FE rep to be added as well-

 

[Igneous42]

Marth will be cut.

Western audience thought he was a girl and there are enough sword users. Also was an inferior clone of Roy in Melee and uses an outdated Falchion.

Wait a minute....Marth isn't a girl? Well my night just got a lot more awkward.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Everyone is gay for Marth, don't deny it.

 

[•Col•]

Everyone is gay for Marth, don't deny it.

Not Ike.

Soren will forever hold that title.

 

[kikaru]

Roy used Charm!

It's super effective!

Excuse me...?

Also I believe that they were both initially planned to be removed from other versions outside the Japanese ones, correct me if I'm wrong here.

I can't get the video on the IGN article to work but if it's the 40 second opera-ish commercial then that one is referencing Binding Blade to which I say IGN most likely made an error there.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not Ike.

Pixiv and Deviantart say otherwise.

Soren will forever hold that title.

Alright, fair enough. Though, I was more talking in a meta sense.

 

[Croph]

Excuse me...?

Oh please

Roy's Charm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahri's Charm

jk jk I actually like Ahri. She's like the only Champion I can play without dying like every 3 seconds. And Ez. Probably because Spirit Rush and Arcane Shift are really good escape tools ha ha...ha. :/

Also I believe that they were both initially planned to be removed from other versions outside the Japanese ones, correct me if I'm wrong here.

That's what I always thought too. But I'm just curious as to why Sakurai only mentions Marth... who knows.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, Marth's never getting cut. He's the face of the series. Marth, Ike, Roy, and Chrom could all coexist in Smash with no problems at all, hypothetically.

 

[IsmaR]

I'm heterosexual for Marth.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marth got removed. Somehow I think people are stupid enough to push for that. Sakurai follows people.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Marth needs to stay. No excuse.

 

[Jaedrik]

I'm heterosexual for Marth.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marth got removed. Somehow I think people are stupid enough to push for that. Sakurai follows people.

I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be appalled, how could they do such a thing?!? We've demonstrated earlier that some people are stupid enough, so that's confirmed (wait, was any of that pushing or just predicting for?).
But that last part of your post, I'm not gonna disagree with you (I agree in part), but would you clarify and show example of Sakurai following people (a broad statement)?
Actually now that I think about it, Sakurai pretty much does what he wants in the end. Or has, at least.
Also, pretty avatar you got there.

Yeah, Marth's never getting cut. He's the face of the series. Marth, Ike, Roy, and Chrom could all coexist in Smash with no problems at all, hypothetically.

Of course he's never gonna get cut.
As for the coexisting, hypothetically perfectly plausible, but practically highly improbable as I see it.
I would like to contest your claim that he is the face of the series, as there are other faces that would appropriately contest him, for the sake of being contrarian.

Marth needs to stay. No excuse.

He needs to remain. . . to take care of the mental integrity of the Marusu fanbase~ <3

 

[Opossum]

Of course he's never gonna get cut.
As for the coexisting, hypothetically perfectly plausible, but practically highly improbable as I see it.
I would like to contest your claim that he is the face of the series, as there are other faces that would appropriately contest him, for the sake of being contrarian.

The way I see it, Marth was the star of the first game in the series, as well as the third. These were also the only games, IIRC, to receive remakes. He's also been playable in Melee and Brawl. Additionally, he was a pretty big plot-point in Awakening. Because of this, I feel as though he's definitely the most notable Fire Emblem character, as he receives much more publicity than the other characters.

Just the way I see it, though.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Saying Marth would get cut is like saying Pikachu would get cut. It's just stupid to cut the most famous/recognizable character in a series.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Saying Marth would get cut is like saying Pikachu would get cut. It's just stupid to cut the most famous/recognizable character in a series.

I think that's a pretty fair comparison. The Fire Emblem characters are a lot like Pokemon just by the sheer number of characters and everyone has their own favorites.

I definitely don't think Marth is going anywhere. I expect that he won't be featured much in the promotional materials due to a new FE character getting the limelight, but he'll be in the game for sure.

... I'm still hoping for Lucina as an alt. costume of his, too. I don't actually like Marth's designs that much, I'd rather play as the character that's supposed to look like a girl.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Guys it's not about promotion anymore, it's about the best Nintendo characters fighting each other, why create a moveset for any character for the whole sake of advertisement?

 

[ToothiestAura]

Guys it's not about promotion anymore, it's about the best Nintendo characters fighting each other, why create a moveset for any character for the whole sake of advertisement?

Marth already has a moveset. Did you even play SSB?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Marth already has a moveset. Did you even play SSB?

Yeah I was referring to Marth when it came to the best Nintendo characters.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Yeah I was referring to Marth when it came to the best Nintendo characters.

Got it. You meant Chrom/Another FE rep for the whole moveset thing.

 

[Starbound]

Marth, Ike and Roy

No promotions. The three most iconic Fire Emblem characters (the two who helped bring Fire Emblem to the west), and the one who many consider to be the face of Western Fire Emblem. Given that they chose Priam to connect to Ike as opposed to any other Fire Emblem lord says a lot in my opinion.

 

[FalKoopa]

Marth, Ike and Roy

I agree.

It's the perfect FE trio.

 

[jaytalks]

Marth, Ike and Roy

No promotions. The three most iconic Fire Emblem characters (the two who helped bring Fire Emblem to the west), and the one who many consider to be the face of Western Fire Emblem. Given that they chose Priam to connect to Ike as opposed to any other Fire Emblem lord says a lot in my opinion.

That way of thinking has a strong western focus. I would say Marth is iconic due to being the first and most notable lord. Ike is the first internationally released home console lord (and almost the modern lord as his design is completely different than all the previous lords). If you want to name a third, I don't think Roy cuts it as iconic in the context of his series' appearances. With the added focus of the recent releases, I think either Chrom or Lucina (depending on how you look at it) would be the next most iconic.

If you were to break it down into eras, this is how I would look at the lords:
Classic Era: Marth
The most notable lord of that era and overall. Represents the core archetype of the lord and the type of storytelling the series proposes.
Modern Era: Ike
Much like Metroid, Fire Emblem skips the N64 generation and jumps into modern gaming. Ike is most notable lord of this era, with his two lead roles (Micaiah ends up being a false protagonist by RD's end). His design also reflects modern sensibilities, as he is an effective unit from the start, he does not come from royalty, and has a rough, informal fighting style.
Revival Era: Chrom or Lucina
The unfortunate other part of the Modern Era is that it also leads to a decline for the series. RD declines in sales despite being on a more widely available console, and both of the remakes disappoint during the DS generation. Awakening ends up being either the series swan song or saving grace (unknown to fans upon initial release). The game is both a critical and commercial success (returning the series to its 500,000 plus numbers in Japan) which leads to admitting the game saved the series. Instead of being cancelled, the series contributes to sales of the 3DS, and has a new crossover with SMT announced.

I don't want to discount either Chrom or Lucina fans by naming one overr the other. I think the one that stands out will be more clear over time. I don't include the Avatar because the mere fact there is no standard appearance means at this point there is no way that he or she can be more iconic the game's two lords. Chrom is the game's main lord and is necessary throughout all the levels. Lucina on the other is a strong female presence for the series and represents one of the core (and most fun) gameplay mechanics.

I think whoever the newer fans (fans who joined the series with Awakening) pick as the more popular lord will end up with the iconic title, but we are still too close to its release to be certain of that.

 

[IsmaR]

I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be appalled, how could they do such a thing?!? We've demonstrated earlier that some people are stupid enough, so that's confirmed (wait, was any of that pushing or just predicting for?).
But that last part of your post, I'm not gonna disagree with you (I agree in part), but would you clarify and show example of Sakurai following people (a broad statement)?
Actually now that I think about it, Sakurai pretty much does what he wants in the end. Or has, at least.
Also, pretty avatar you got there.

I could almost swear Sakurai himself has stated he's forgone adding unique characters he himself likes in favor of going out to please other fanboys/friends (as I recall, the main reason he added Captain Falcon was because he was good friends with a producer of F-Zero, not to mention Snake getting in). Couple in the fact that FE characters fluctuate in popularity (going off of that alone, I could infer Marth would be "replaced" by Lucina, with her being given his moveset, but that's for another discussionflame war) and that there really are some extreme fans out there more than willing to cry until their fictional idol is added to this glorified fanfiction series, I don't think it's too much of a broad statement.

And thanks.~

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think Marth, Roy and Ike is mostly Western based at all. I mean, onky Shadow Dragon got released in the west, Roy's popularity comes mostly from the Japanese, and Ike, well he's Ike and a badass mofo some stays.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Marth and Roy have western fanbase through Smash bros. and hardcore Fire Emblem fans, making it mostly Japanese, while Ike has a bigger western fanbase than Japanese, surprisingly. It's actually not that surprising, though

 

[Jaedrik]

I could almost swear Sakurai himself has stated he's forgone adding unique characters he himself likes in favor of going out to please other fanboys/friends (as I recall, the main reason he added Captain Falcon was because he was good friends with a producer of F-Zero, not to mention Snake getting in). Couple in the fact that FE characters fluctuate in popularity (going off of that alone, I could infer Marth would be "replaced" by Lucina, with her being given his moveset, but that's for another discussionflame war) and that there really are some extreme fans out there more than willing to cry until their fictional idol is added to this glorified fanfiction series, I don't think it's too much of a broad statement.

And thanks.~

I wouldn't say that's following people per se, just, you know, being influenced by them, and him ultimately choosing differently because of that, he is after all the director and the final say, I thought the story with the Captain Falcon was that he loved the F-Zero series (probably because of said friend), and just put him in. Snake was just Kojima almost begging (If memory serves), but it was within the broader limits of Smash's criteria.
I wouldn't say he follows people, but he is open to influence, he doesn't seem to mind or seem stressed about it. This is one of the strangest feelings I've had, it's a sort of vagueness I've not felt in a while. Following people just seems like such an ambiguous term to me for some reason.

Of all fanfiction I'd say Smash fanfiction is the easiest to prove validity to someone who despises fanfiction, being the already non-canonical crossover fanfiction video game that it is, but I find it sad, no, very sad when people ignore the fed critical boundaries Smash has to push their unworthy agendas into the next Smash game. Sakurai has adhered to these boundaries, but I do see him being diverse and creative and open within that field.

You're welcome, what is it if I may ask?

 

[Oddyesy]

Not Ike.
Soren will forever hold that title.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4417623/4/A-Bar-of-Soap
Read and be corrected.

 

[FlareHabanero]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4417623/4/A-Bar-of-Soap
Read and be corrected.

...What the **** am I reading?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4417623/4/A-Bar-of-Soap
Read and be corrected.

...What the **** am I reading?

Now, I'm afraid to even click the link.... I mean it's even labeled "A-Bar-of-Soap".... Should I just ignore this link?

 

[IsmaR]

Phosphora from Kid Icarus Uprising. I'll quote myself here for convenience.

Spoiler

Correct on all accounts. The pic I cropped from is actually SFW, just sexual implications and whatnot. Still spoiler tags for you under PG-13 youngin's.

[collapse=Impending Admiral Pit bait]

[/collapse]

I try not to think of it as a "money to be made" project, but that probably is as far as what Sakurai really thinks about the canon/fiction. If following people aids in that or whatever goal, then by all means go for it. The roster not including someone you like shouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[Croph]

Sooo, in Roy's case, he does have more popularity in Japan than in the West, so his popularity is not only Western based. Roy may not be the most iconic Lord, but he does have his importance, at least form a Japanese perspective. I know I can't speak for the Japanese, but some things can be put easily together.

FE6 was a revolutionary and critically acclaimed game at the time, I can even say that it was like a reestablishment of the series (in Japan). Heck, as I said before, not only the characters, but the plot of FE6 is similar to FE1. In fact, the similarities between FE1 and FE6 is uncanny! And I think it does make sense if FE6 is sorta like a reboot, being the first handheld FE game and all. I think Chrono's a better one to ask about all this history stuff haha.

Anyway, I do believe that in the Japanese eyes Roy's at least somewhat iconic, perhaps being even nostalgic to them.

It's interesting to note that apparently there was a FE game in development for the N64 (I have no idea if it was specifically for the 64DD or not) but got cancelled. I do believe Shouzou Kaga (the creator of FE) left IS some time before the release of his last FE game, Thracia 776. He could have been keen on continuing making [FE] games for the PS1, being a much stronger platform, but don't quote me on that.

Now, for FE64, there are theories (I say this because I don't have a souce) stating that Kaga wanted to continue the FE series in a similar vein to Thracia 776, but Nintendo begged to differ on that route. But, like I said, FE64 got cancelled and we don't know if later FE games, especially Maiden of Darkness (FE6's prototype name) would pull ideas from it, though it's certainly possible.

I think after Thracia 776, Nintendo, at the time, wanted the next FE game (in this case being FE6, as we have like no info on FE64) to be a more accessible game. A game that's not only for the hardcore fans, but for new ones, making FE6 more simpler, including a tutorial mode (that's optional), more "cuter" looking characters/art (I mean, c'mon, Roy literally leads an army of children!), etc, etc. Because of this, I always thought that FE6 was, not necessarily aimed at (as it does have its difficulties), but more friendly towards new FE gamers, ultimately making FE6 reach out to a bigger audience (and perhaps even younger players as well due to the cute/younger characters).

'kay I hope I got all my info right...

And speaking about fanfics, I've read the funniest Smash fanfic one time... like it was bad, but on purpose, almost like being a parody. I'll see if I can dig it up. :B

 

[kingmario92]

Marth and Chrom are the likely candidates (maybe Ike), but I like to see some others show up. Not necessarily as playable characters, but maybe even assist trophies. Personally, other characters I'd like to see show up are Lucina, Micaiah, Eirika, and maybe Sigurd. They might not get in mind you, but it'd be nice to see them somewhere in the game.

 

[Hong]

Let's make this happen.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't think Marth, Roy and Ike is mostly Western based at all. I mean, onky Shadow Dragon got released in the west, Roy's popularity comes mostly from the Japanese, and Ike, well he's Ike and a badass mofo some stays.

I meant the reasoning behind what made the characters iconic was based on the characters' influence on the west. Marth is iconic because his place in the series' history, not because his appearance in Smash led to the series making it to the west. Under that same train of thought, Roy is not iconic as others in the series because of his place in the franchise's history. The characters' iconic nature should come from their place in the series. Smash should reflect the iconic elements of the series, and not give credence to what is iconic about the series. Characters appearing in Smash in the west should not make them iconic; it should be based on their appearances within the Fire Emblem series.

 

[jaytalks]

double post my bad.

 

[Jaedrik]

Spoiler

Let's make this happen.

Unfortunately, it may only happen in fan art.
It is extremely unlikely they will interact in such a manner in the game at all, no special victory poses, no interaction in adventure mode, nothing. That is, assuming Lucina gets in, which is a marvelous assumption in itself.
I'd rather have Anna over Lucina anyways, while not this particular style of adorable buttkicker Lucina is, she is cute.
On another interpretation, what do you mean "Let's make this happen."? You see the picture there, it already has, unless you're talking about real life? We can't do much if you're talking about Smash context.
Nice picture, btw, super cute, but what's with the question marks, and the other stuff is just the rubbing sfx, right?