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You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

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FalKoopa

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In the background of an FE stage like Tails/Knuckles/Silver was in Brawl?

And think about it..... Roy and Mewtwo were only stickers and a trophy in Brawl. D:
I think I agree.

Reading your previous post again, I realized I somehow missed the word "trophy", and thought that she would only be a sticker. My bad.
 

Hong

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Maybe Olimar can throw Fire Emblem characters. ◔ᴗ◔
unless for some magic reason Ike gets cut. so the same applies to all the other lords.
I don't think Ike being cut requires sorcery.
 

nessokman

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chrom is almost guaranteed for smash. Marth has a shot. Lucina maybe. considering awakening's sales, it could use 3 reps
 

•Col•

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I think I agree.

Reading your previous post again, I realized I somehow missed the word "trophy", and thought that she would only be a sticker. My bad.
Roy only got a sticker for Brawl..... :(

Also just a note, I don't necessarily think she'll only be a sticker/trophy. I just think it's possible. I also think it's possible to end up a playable character. Again I really think it's all just going to be up to Sakurai's personal bias.

If Sakurai played FE13 and absolutely loved it, I wouldn't be surprised if that led to more FE13 representation in Smash 4.

chrom is almost guaranteed for smash. Marth has a shot. Lucina maybe. considering awakening's sales, it could use 3 reps
"Almost guaranteed" is a contradiction.

Also no. Chrom is not even close to being guaranteed. Neither is any other FE character.

And lol. Chrom is just about 'guaranteed' and Marth only has a 'shot'. Yeah, okay. The FACE of Fire Emblem who was the first FE character put into Smash and helped to bring Fire Emblem to the rest of the world has just a 'shot'. /sarcasm

Let me guess. FE13 was your first Fire Emblem game, wasn't it?
 

nessokman

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Roy only got a sticker for Brawl..... :(

Also just a note, I don't necessarily think she'll only be a sticker/trophy. I just think it's possible. I also think it's possible to end up a playable character. Again I really think it's all just going to be up to Sakurai's personal bias.

If Sakurai played FE13 and absolutely loved it, I wouldn't be surprised if that led to more FE13 representation in Smash 4.



"Almost guaranteed" is a contradiction.

Also no. Chrom is not even close to being guaranteed. Neither is any other FE character.

And lol. Chrom is just about 'guaranteed' and Marth only has a 'shot'. Yeah, okay. The FACE of Fire Emblem who was the first FE character put into Smash and helped to bring Fire Emblem to the rest of the world has just a 'shot'. /sarcasm

Let me guess. FE13 was your first Fire Emblem game, wasn't it?
actually sacred stones. Either way the character in smash is usually the latest one (excluding marth as he is a veteran) Sakurai asks intelligent systems what FE character. And in case you haven't noticed, Usually it is one from a recent game Roy, Ike, soon chrom/lucina. Not a matter of if sakurai loves it, FE13 is doing better than almost all the others have done. It has amazing reviews and has a ton of sales.

Don't think for a second that chrom won't be in. He is the main character in one of the best selling fire emblems to date. With that success, we may get lucina and chrom. Marth will probably in it.
 

jaytalks

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Maybe Olimar can throw Fire Emblem characters. ◔ᴗ◔
I don't think Ike being cut requires sorcery.
I think considering this is the FE series, he just might. They used Valflame to cut Roy.
 

Hong

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I think considering this is the FE series, he just might. They used Valflame to cut Roy.
Maybe Black Knight will show up with a blessed Alondite and cut Ike. ◔ᴗ◔
Was Ike a new FE character near the times of Brawl development?
Brawl came out moments before Radiant Dawn, the sequel to his game, so Path of Radiance was already in pre-owned retail territory. There are even Radiant Dawn trophies in the game. To put it into perspective: Path of Radiance is a Gamecube game, the same system Melee was on.
 

jaytalks

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the difference between Ike's chances and Chrom's chances is that Ike is the only lord in PoR.
 

Hong

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I think it is almost unanimously agreed that Chrom is the most likely newcomer. Note that no one can fully predict what will happen, and "most likely" is far from "assumed". For all we know we could get a character for a Fire Emblem that will come out like four years down the road. We don't really know what is going on behind the scenes. That said, Chrom is the most likely.
 

nessokman

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I think it is almost unanimously agreed that Chrom is the most likely newcomer. Note that no one can fully predict what will happen, and "most likely" is far from "assumed". For all we know we could get a character for a Fire Emblem that will come out like four years down the road. We don't really know what is going on behind the scenes. That said, Chrom is the most likely.
I doubt we'll get a character from a game two or more years down the road that hasn't even been announced. Also intelligent systems is probably busy with the crossover :I.... Chrom and lucina are more than likely
 

Hong

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Me too. It was just an example of the most extreme circumstances to illustrate how anything is possibl.
 

Hong

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Personally I want Donnel, Nowi, or Anna to be playable.
I don't really just want characters I like to be playable for the sake of being in the game. First and foremost, I think about how they will play. How much fun they will be, how different they are from everyone else. I am hoping for a roster that stays below 40 characters total, and each character gets proper attention. Frankly I thought half of Brawl's roster needed a lot more attention, whether it was a veteran who was complete garbage, or a newcomer with ****ty, boring, uninteresting moves.

If they were going to put Lucina in the game, but then they were like "Oh hey, this other Nintendo character could do all of this and more" and it becomes more fun to play as a result, I rather them do that.
 

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Maybe Black Knight will show up with a blessed Alondite and cut Ike. ◔ᴗ◔
Brawl came out moments before Radiant Dawn, the sequel to his game, so Path of Radiance was already in pre-owned retail territory. There are even Radiant Dawn trophies in the game. To put it into perspective: Path of Radiance is a Gamecube game, the same system Melee was on.
Brawl came out after Radiant Dawn...
 

•Col•

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actually sacred stones. Either way the character in smash is usually the latest one (excluding marth as he is a veteran) Sakurai asks intelligent systems what FE character. And in case you haven't noticed, Usually it is one from a recent game Roy, Ike, soon chrom/lucina. Not a matter of if sakurai loves it, FE13 is doing better than almost all the others have done. It has amazing reviews and has a ton of sales.

Don't think for a second that chrom won't be in. He is the main character in one of the best selling fire emblems to date. With that success, we may get lucina and chrom. Marth will probably in it.
Why has no one else destroyed these arguments yet?
 

Hong

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Ha ha. After playing it through twice when it came out in NA I never went back to RD, so you have to forgive my memory.

It is a good game when regarded as a game, but many of the chapters just didn't feel like Fire Emblem.
 

nessokman

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I've beat 13 4 times :L My friends and i compete to make the strongest teams :p i beat sacred stones once, and lost it. RD was fun, I thought FE:13 was great, all the spotpass teams are epic, i love being able to get old characters from games not released outside japan.


Why has no one else destroyed these arguments yet?
Whats with the chrom hate? I understand how f*****g useless he is in his game (unless maxed out, and then he still sucks in comparison with lucina) He is still extremely likely no matter how you cut
Chrom is likely if not anything.. god knows what sakurai will do.....
 

•Col•

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Whats with the chrom hate? I understand how f*****g useless he is in his game (unless maxed out, and then he still sucks in comparison with lucina) He is still extremely likely no matter how you cut
Chrom is likely if not anything.. god knows what sakurai will do.....
I don't hate Chrom at all. I think he's cool. Well, he's kinda bland, but honestly blandness is a staple of FE lords.

I just also happen to think there are several better FE reps than him and that he doesn't offer anything 'new' that existing characters already have to offer.


Either way the character in smash is usually the latest one (excluding marth as he is a veteran)
You can't really form a reliable pattern by viewing just 2 points. If we could, with your logic I could say that 'Starfox will almost certainly get 4 character slots in Smash 4'.

Also it doesn't really work since Roy didn't even exist until after Melee came out. So technically, again using your logic, I could just as easily say that an FE newcomer for Smash 4 will be from a game that hasn't been released yet.

Sakurai asks intelligent systems what FE character.
We don't know that for sure. I'm sure he talks to them about it, but I doubt he takes their word as law. And even then there's no guarantee Intelligent Systems would even RECOMMEND Chrom. They seem to have more of a soft spot for Lucina, to be quite honest. Heck, if they're planning to remake FE6 like they've been wanting to, they could easily tell Sakurai to bring back Roy.

Or who knows. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they mentioned Anna or even Robin either.

Not a matter of if sakurai loves it, FE13 is doing better than almost all the others have done. It has amazing reviews and has a ton of sales.
Sales arguments for moot for FE reps because Ike got into Brawl and BOTH his games sold pretty poorly.

And yes, if Sakurai loves it, it most certainly becomes a factor. He has sooooo much bias when it comes to making game decisions that it's pretty damn evident. I'm sure plenty of others would agree with me on this if you believe me.

Don't think for a second that chrom won't be in. He is the main character in one of the best selling fire emblems to date. With that success, we may get lucina and chrom. Marth will probably in it.
You shouldn't be thinking Chrom will definitely be in. I already said that sales don't matter, and even if we went purely by sales, then Lyn/Hector should have higher chances than Chrom by your standards.

And I still laugh that you say that Marth will 'probably' be in. He's by FAR the most likely FE character to get in. Leagues over Ike, Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Robin, AND Anna combined.

Ike/Chrom/Roy/Lucina/Robin/Anna/Lyn all have chances to get into Smash 4, and any of them could just as easily be left out. Like I said, I honestly feel it comes down to Sakurai's bias when choosing between them.

That being said, I feel 3 FE reps are extremely likely for Smash 4, and I don't see 4 reps out of the realm of possibility either.
 

jaytalks

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That being said, I feel 3 FE reps are extremely likely for Smash 4, and I don't see 4 reps out of the realm of possibility either.
It's confirmed that Sakurai has consulted with IS in the past. He only learned about Roy from IS, and IS recommended Ike I believe. It's not completely unheard of and it makes more sense that would recommend a character from their most recent game more than a character whose game hasnt been announced (that includes SMTXFE mystery protagonist, any remakes, or a new FE). We can't argue about phantom games and characters. so we debate the likelihood of the ones we have. And although Roy wasn't the most recent lord at the time of Melee's release, the fact that his game was released around the time of Melee means he still was a current lord within Melee's playing time frame. His game came out like 4 months after Melee's release. Although recent isn't the right word due to its meaning, he was the most current lord within the timeframe Melee's release, as Thracia 776 was released in September 1999.

Pattern based logic should not be used across series. Different series have a different set of characters and a different set of releases between Smashes. I'm not against pattern based logic, and it doesn't make sense to compare series like without considering other factors. Pokemon and FE differ from other series in that they are clearly established generational series and the protagonist change between certain iterations. They are the only regularly continuing series like this, and up until now, Smash has reflected that. Starfox hasnt had a non-remake release since Brawl, and even then the nature of the series is very different.

Sales are relative to the series as well. And they are just one factor that comes with a multitude of factors that we don't know about. Ike may have been in a rather moderate selling game (still got a sequel, so I'm guessing it was profitable at least), but he also is arguably the most unique lord (heavy style, non royalty, more ready moveset, etc.) Chrom's and Lucina's sales weigh against their negatives (what to do they bring to the table, how to make the unique, similarity to previous lords, etc).

I agree Chrom is not definite, but there are positives to adding him. The argument for him is not purely sales, just like it has been for every other character.

I think three reps is possible and the more likely scenario. I think four is out of the series' reach at the moment.
 

kikaru

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I don't hate Chrom at all. I think he's cool. Well, he's kinda bland, but honestly blandness is a staple of FE lords.

I just also happen to think there are several better FE reps than him and that he doesn't offer anything 'new' that existing characters already have to offer.




You can't really form a reliable pattern by viewing just 2 points. If we could, with your logic I could say that 'Starfox will almost certainly get 4 character slots in Smash 4'.

Also it doesn't really work since Roy didn't even exist until after Melee came out. So technically, again using your logic, I could just as easily say that an FE newcomer for Smash 4 will be from a game that hasn't been released yet.



We don't know that for sure. I'm sure he talks to them about it, but I doubt he takes their word as law. And even then there's no guarantee Intelligent Systems would even RECOMMEND Chrom. They seem to have more of a soft spot for Lucina, to be quite honest. Heck, if they're planning to remake FE6 like they've been wanting to, they could easily tell Sakurai to bring back Roy.

Or who knows. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they mentioned Anna or even Robin either.



Sales arguments for moot for FE reps because Ike got into Brawl and BOTH his games sold pretty poorly.

And yes, if Sakurai loves it, it most certainly becomes a factor. He has sooooo much bias when it comes to making game decisions that it's pretty damn evident. I'm sure plenty of others would agree with me on this if you believe me.



You shouldn't be thinking Chrom will definitely be in. I already said that sales don't matter, and even if we went purely by sales, then Lyn/Hector should have higher chances than Chrom by your standards.

And I still laugh that you say that Marth will 'probably' be in. He's by FAR the most likely FE character to get in. Leagues over Ike, Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Robin, AND Anna combined.

Ike/Chrom/Roy/Lucina/Robin/Anna/Lyn all have chances to get into Smash 4, and any of them could just as easily be left out. Like I said, I honestly feel it comes down to Sakurai's bias when choosing between them.

That being said, I feel 3 FE reps are extremely likely for Smash 4, and I don't see 4 reps out of the realm of possibility either.

This is pretty much how I feel about FE discussions, characters in general. While there are definitely a lot more interesting picks than Chrom such as Olivia, Anna, etc. I just really want to see three Fire Emblem characters (So I'm pretty much supporting most characters at this point). With this being said I don't find a third Fire Emblem to be a guarantee while still feeling very safe with Ike's chances so of course Chrom, much like Roy, Lyn, and everyone else, do not have a 100% to get in. The reason I so heavily defended Chrom was because he was a character I enjoyed and liked (Not my favorite FE character by far, that goes to Owain and Olivia) but was receiving large and unnecessary amount of flak towards him. (Partly due to his more vocal and somewhat toxic fanbase, though most characters have this with varying degree)

There will be those people with every character who believe their character, for example Chrom, will be a shoe in due to the fact that he's the most recent lord, sales of Awakening, etc. etc. But let's not forget there are people who actually like his character and see his quality much further beyond his face value, so if everyone would be so kind to consider us Chrom fans apart from the mindless drabble that would be greatly appreciated.

Whatever happens, I'll just be happy if Fire Emblem will get a third spot on the roster regardless of who it is. (If you're wondering my personal preference would be Owain but I also realize that's incredibly unlikely)
 

nessokman

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I don't hate Chrom at all. I think he's cool. Well, he's kinda bland, but honestly blandness is a staple of FE lords.

I just also happen to think there are several better FE reps than him and that he doesn't offer anything 'new' that existing characters already have to offer.




You can't really form a reliable pattern by viewing just 2 points. If we could, with your logic I could say that 'Starfox will almost certainly get 4 character slots in Smash 4'.

Also it doesn't really work since Roy didn't even exist until after Melee came out. So technically, again using your logic, I could just as easily say that an FE newcomer for Smash 4 will be from a game that hasn't been released yet.



We don't know that for sure. I'm sure he talks to them about it, but I doubt he takes their word as law. And even then there's no guarantee Intelligent Systems would even RECOMMEND Chrom. They seem to have more of a soft spot for Lucina, to be quite honest. Heck, if they're planning to remake FE6 like they've been wanting to, they could easily tell Sakurai to bring back Roy.

Or who knows. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they mentioned Anna or even Robin either.



Sales arguments for moot for FE reps because Ike got into Brawl and BOTH his games sold pretty poorly.

And yes, if Sakurai loves it, it most certainly becomes a factor. He has sooooo much bias when it comes to making game decisions that it's pretty damn evident. I'm sure plenty of others would agree with me on this if you believe me.



You shouldn't be thinking Chrom will definitely be in. I already said that sales don't matter, and even if we went purely by sales, then Lyn/Hector should have higher chances than Chrom by your standards.

And I still laugh that you say that Marth will 'probably' be in. He's by FAR the most likely FE character to get in. Leagues over Ike, Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Robin, AND Anna combined.

Ike/Chrom/Roy/Lucina/Robin/Anna/Lyn all have chances to get into Smash 4, and any of them could just as easily be left out. Like I said, I honestly feel it comes down to Sakurai's bias when choosing between them.

That being said, I feel 3 FE reps are extremely likely for Smash 4, and I don't see 4 reps out of the realm of possibility either.
Lol 3 at least.the series actually almost ended because of poor sales.awakening saved the series! I'd say Anna and chrom with marth. Lucina as an assist trophy
 

•Col•

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It's confirmed that Sakurai has consulted with IS in the past.
You can clearly see in my post I never said he doesn't talk with them about it. I merely said we can't assume he goes to them and says 'WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO PUT IN SMASH?'

It's not completely unheard of and it makes more sense that would recommend a character from their most recent game more than a character whose game hasnt been announced (that includes SMTXFE mystery protagonist, any remakes, or a new FE).
I wouldn't say it makes less sense at all, since they literally did it with Roy in Melee which you pointed out yourself. But even then, we can't automatically assume they would recommend Chrom since I even pointed out they seem to have more an attatchment to Lucina and even Robin.

Pattern based logic should not be used across series. Different series have a different set of characters and a different set of releases between Smashes. I'm not against pattern based logic, and it doesn't make sense to compare series like without considering other factors. Pokemon and FE differ from other series in that they are clearly established generational series and the protagonist change between certain iterations. They are the only regularly continuing series like this, and up until now, Smash has reflected that. Starfox hasnt had a non-remake release since Brawl, and even then the nature of the series is very different.


Sales are relative to the series as well. And they are just one factor that comes with a multitude of factors that we don't know about. Ike may have been in a rather moderate selling game (still got a sequel, so I'm guessing it was profitable at least), but he also is arguably the most unique lord (heavy style, non royalty, more ready moveset, etc.) Chrom's and Lucina's sales weigh against their negatives (what to do they bring to the table, how to make the unique, similarity to previous lords, etc).
Highlighted the only thing in this part that I felt was actually relevant. Everything else you just posted was subjective and opinionated which boiled down to pulling 'exceptions' out of your ass with absolutely no evidence to give. No offense. You're allowed to have that opinion, but don't try to use it to argue for the chances of a character appearing.

Besides, for that given post all I had to do was merely show that nessokman's arguments were not 'definitive'. All I had to show was that Chrom was not a shoe-in for the reasons he posted. Regardless of whether all my counterpoints were true in themselves, I just had to show that there was reasonable doubt.
 

Hong

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We all know Regna Ferox is going to be the 3DS stage, and I have been thinking about what the Wii U stage will be.

What if we get an "Outrealm"? With the Wii U's processing power, it could take fighters to different historical battles throughout the series. No falling or anything; just different a background and platform layouts for each of the different realms.

It is certainly doable.
 

jaytalks

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You can clearly see in my post I never said he doesn't talk with them about it. I merely said we can't assume he goes to them and says 'WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO PUT IN SMASH?'



I wouldn't say it makes less sense at all, since they literally did it with Roy in Melee which you pointed out yourself. But even then, we can't automatically assume they would recommend Chrom since I even pointed out they seem to have more an attatchment to Lucina and even Robin.



Highlighted the only thing in this part that I felt was actually relevant. Everything else you just posted was subjective and opinionated which boiled down to pulling 'exceptions' out of your *** with absolutely no evidence to give. No offense. You're allowed to have that opinion, but don't try to use it to argue for the chances of a character appearing.

Besides, for that given post all I had to do was merely show that nessokman's arguments were not 'definitive'. All I had to show was that Chrom was not a shoe-in for the reasons he posted. Regardless of whether all my counterpoints were true in themselves, I just had to show that there was reasonable doubt.
What I'm saying is that it's impossible to have phantom debates about characters and games that we don't even know we exist yet. Sure something could happen like with Roy getting a remake or there being a new game, but everything we have currently shows to the contrary. And I've never argued for Chrom; I'm arguing that Awakening based rep is more likely than the other scenarios. Because an Awakening based rep doesn't need a phantom game in order to be a more likely scenario.

Any statement on likelihood is opinion at this point, so you can use that line about what someone saying being opinion for anything anyone says. There is no disputing that the Star Fox series and FE series work differently. All Star Fox releases have either starred the Star Fox team or Fox himself. Fire Emblem is a generational series where heroes are rarely repeated for over two games (aside from Marth, who also got two remakes). So the comparison between series doesn't make sense. That's my point.

You can disagree with my opinion or anyone else's for that matter, but they are free to use it any argument they like. As I've said before, I don't think there is anything wrong with being a "patternist." We are all just trying to make predictions about the game. Some of them will be wrong. Some of them will be right. Does every prediction really need to be proven based on a formula or a source or even being able to prove it will happen? At the base level, a prediction's most important facet is that it is about saying the ways thing will be in the future. If I make a prediction and I'm right, isn't that more important than proving that it's possible based on whatever reasoning? We know why Sakurai makes individual choices when he tells us, but we don't know the full reasoning, because his criteria has changed over time, and he doesn't explain how each character fits his criteria. If you were trying to predict the characters at E3, it would be better to get all three right than to pick "the most likely" scenario. Because that's the point of a prediction.

I agree that there is reasonable doubt it won't be Chrom because that's what I've always thought. Chrom is however a likely scenario, but he's not my prediction. As always, I'm betting on Lucina as the third rep.

We all know Regna Ferox is going to be the 3DS stage, and I have been thinking about what the Wii U stage will be.

What if we get an "Outrealm"? With the Wii U's processing power, it could take fighters to different historical battles throughout the series. No falling or anything; just different a background and platform layouts for each of the different realms.

It is certainly doable.
I'm thinking Ike or Marth will get the honors for the home console. I'm betting on Fort Alpea.

But an Outrealm would be a better way of showing off all the locations of a series than some stage like Castle Siege. Perhaps it could show scenario's from different games, including FE4 and FE7.
 

FalKoopa

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I'm playing through Path of Radiance, and I'm absolutely loving the game. :awesome:

I can see where Ike derives his Aether (He does a similar attack in the intro) and Quick Draw (His critical hit animation).

Also, PoR's design of Anna is my favourite. :3
 

Jaedrik

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I'm playing through Path of Radiance, and I'm absolutely loving the game. :awesome:
I can see where Ike derives his Aether (He does a similar attack in the intro) and Quick Draw (His critical hit animation).
Also, PoR's design of Anna is my favourite. :3
Awakening Anna has the better attracting looks.
<3 them both, why not?
Though HNEGH, I think her classic look is hotter in some ways, I'd rather see Awakening Anna in Smash.
I wonder who would be more popular.
 

Hong

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I think in a case like this, if Anna were to appear, they would take her classic look and then update it so it is more complex and detailed, like Marth. She has never really had a highly detailed 3d representation before (her battle model in Awakening is far from one). She has appeared in the same outfit for about 12 games, same trademark pose and mannerisms. Only different facing, resolution and artistic interpretation. I think she would use her classic look updated and have a moveset that represents the entire series, pulling out weapons and items of every sort. She is, more than anything, an enigmatic merchant that has appeared across the seven realms. I wouldn't hope that they would let her Awakening representation dictate her design, though if they have alternative outfits I wouldn't be opposed to it, either.
 

FalKoopa

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I would like it if Anna uses her classic design. That would completely set her apart from other Fire Emblem lords. :laugh:
 
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