You can SDI Lucario's dair

[RT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj6lTqjIf6E

All mulihitting moves in Brawl can be SDI'd. Please stop saying you can't. If you don't know how, learn to SDI better. Thank you.

 

[Browny]

You can Also SDI diddys fsmash, Pits fsmash, Zeldas usmash to receive no knockback. now successfully do it... more than once a match (heck even a set) and we might have a topic worth discussing

 

[RT]

The above vid was from ONE match during a whole night of matches. I didn't include every single instance that occurred that night, but I can if you want. I have two hours worth of clips. Please stop arguing against this. Lee Martin also agrees with this...will you argue against him too? The more you argue, the more you will lose.

I don't understand why it is so hard to believe it be possible. I'm not saying you will be able to do it every time...no one is perfect. But the fact the people see it as being IMPOSSIBLE or extremely difficult puzzles me. It's like every other multihitting move in the game. Once you learn how to SDI it, its not hard.

But just for you, I will compile a whole list of clips of various people doing it. And then you can continue to argue and look silly.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

My initial reaction to this is "duh". Why wouldn't one be able to. It's not really that important because it's going to be very difficult to SDI a two-hit attack reliably.

 

[Browny]

Lol im not arguing its existance, but you cant seriously think that this changes anything. no one is going to not dair anymore because of a risk the opponent might SDI it (unlike snakes jab 3rd hit, marths 4th down hit on dancing blade, for example)

 

[RT]

I didn't say this would change anything about Lucario's playstyle. I only wanted to point out one single fact, that is all. Some people believe that you cannot SDI out of dair. You clearly can SDI out of dair...that is the lesson to be learned.

Don't read into this topic more than it is. <_<

 

[Timbers]

It's not really SDI..lol. True you can get out of the dair, but it's not a means of SDI. If you get out of Luc's dair you are A) a very small target and the Luc did not space the dair well (which happened in both instances in your video), B) you know the dair is coming while stuck in some sort of lag (and its badly spaced), or C) you just got lucky with your DI while trying to accomplish something different.

I'm just arguing semantics here, but SDI isn't the correct term for this, as I doubt you're actually mashing inputs within a 2-3 frame window after having only 4 frames to react.. It is impossible to move on reaction to a move that is a 10th of a second (startup+move hitstun) If you get out of it, it is luck. It just makes the move unreliable at times (just like luc's jabs, ftilt, etc...even if the first hit connects they can still DI the first hit and punish you for whiffing the second portion. Likelihood of this happening on reaction mine as well be considered non existant), it's really not groundbreaking in the slightest.

And the video doesn't really do anything. The first Luc dair, you were waaay to the right of him. It's a dair, down air, meaning it hits things below him lol. when you misspace that badly you can't expect good results. Same with when they're so far below you the first hit of dair doesn't snag them into the second hit. Think of it like ftilt if you want. The range is there but the only way you're going to get the best out of it is if they are closer to you so that both hits have a greater probability of connecting.

Like I said a while ago, it's not a move I live to use on characters with a thin frame (Diddy, Luigi, Peach, etc)

Oh and, a well spaced dair is pretty much impossible to get out of, just saying.

 

[RT]

I will find better examples. I'm just too tired right now to look through the footage right now. But yeah, you can SDI out of it. As in, you get hit by middle part of the first hitbox of dair, and then SDI to avoid the second hit. Those examples were terrible, I'll try to get better ones up later...but it's possible. You just need to react fast.

 

[The_Bear735]

"you can get out of dair's knockback hit!!!!!"

old news. like browny said, it's possible to do in theory, but it takes very attuned accuracy and timing. it's not very game breaking for lucario imo, SDI'ing a SHD would require korean reflexes

besides, SDI'ing a dair midair is nearly impossible to pull off, and that's the only time Dair is ever really useful besides being a surprise move to SH. most dairs that are aiming to be KO moves midair are spaced well, so good luck SDI'ing that.

 

[Timbers]

I will find better examples. I'm just too tired right now to look through the footage right now. But yeah, you can SDI out of it. As in, you get hit by middle part of the first hitbox of dair, and then SDI to avoid the second hit. Those examples were terrible, I'll try to get better ones up later...but it's possible. You just need to react fast.

You can't do anything in the middle of the dair. It has to be before the active hitstun from the first dair is finished to determine your DI. You're in hitstun after that and therefore can't DI until dair hitbox 2 connects.

and therefore you have less than a 1/10 of a second to react, or in laymans terms, it's humanly impossible to do so without the dair being telegraphed to buy you time, leading back to me saying that it's possible under the assumption you're in some form of lag and can't shield, because shielding the move is always better than getting hit by it lol.

I think the dair can be better described in the sense that, dair hitbox 1 and dair hitbox 2 do not appear in the same places. If you hit with the outer side of dair hitbox 1, and then dair hitbox 2 appears (which does not completely overlay dair hitbox 1) it will not hit the opponent because the hitbox does not extend that far. There's also those times where even no DI can get out of the move simply because dair hitbox 1 didn't snag them far enough into dair hitbox 2, causing them to descend too far to be hit by dair hitbox 2.

 

[Gea]

Not that this is really the same thing, but saying something is impossible is really asking someone to do it. People used to think Fox's uair in Melee was impossible to DI out of (consistently or what have you) or that shine combos were.

People can react more quickly than you give them credit for. There are players who can SDI out of Meta's nado by getting hit ONCE. Then they footstool out.

I never even wanted to make a big deal out of this, LOL. There's no point. The dair isn't a surefire option. Congrats. That's it. End of discussion.

Also DJBrowny... I can consistently DI out of Diddy and Pit's fsmashes. Zelda's I might need a bit of practice to do it consistently, but I wouldn't think of it unheard of. Also Tink's. His is easy. Why do you make such a big deal out of this?

There's a topic on SWF about getting out of any multi-hitting attack consistently. Look it up.

 

[Timbers]

Not that this is really the same thing, but saying something is impossible is really asking someone to do it. People used to think Fox's uair in Melee was impossible to DI out of (consistently or what have you) or that shine combos were.

in a lot of cases though, there was a lot of preptime that readied you to DI.

People can react more quickly than you give them credit for. There are players who can SDI out of Meta's nado by getting hit ONCE. Then they footstool out.
.

there's a ton of startup lag on Meta's nado, and you're rarely ever hit by the first tick of nado. You're given time to react to the oncoming move. We're talking about a 4frame move right here. If the dair is used to finish a combo, then of course it'll be more than easy to DI, because you're given a much larger window to react to the inevitable dair. (fair>dair, baited airdodge>dair, etc)

I was responding to RT's video alone, in which case it's just a random dair oos and the other was just a weird succession of dairs.

 

[Kitamerby]

On another trip down the road of fun facts, Dair's first hitbox does not have set knockback, increases with damage, can kill at like 800, etc.

Its trajectory not DI'd is straight up.

Just a cool fact. I think this might be regular DI, not SDI.

Also, yeah, I'm less impressed now that I've seen the video. Just means you have to space better and not be so freaking predictable with your dairs.

 

[Gea]

That's kind of the point with any move.

Though I want to argue about the "no preptime" for dairs. Most situations are fairly obvious, but uhh like in the case of many moves that even have startup, you are usually already DIing a different direction than you want to when/if you get hit.

The timeframe to SDI would be the same, would it not? I agree that people are less likely to DI moves correctly the faster/more unexpected they come, but you don't NEED a second of prep to DI alot of moves. Plenty of people can DI meta's dsmash right when it comes out because they play the matchup enough. There's a vid of me somewhere SDIing the dsmash at around 80% and teching right next to Meta on a flat surface. That isn't really a freak occurance though.

Anyways, this discussion is pointless.

 

[RT]

I see there really isn't a point in arguing anymore. Gea and I know what happens. Lee Martin even agrees with us, so at least he knows, which I never doubted in the first place. If you guys don't want to believe us, that's fine. Feel free to close the topic. Anything DI is about prediction and reaction. Mostly reaction though. Maybe in the future people will come back to this topic and say, "Hey, they were right after all."

 

[The_Bear735]

I hope you realize how self righteous and stupid your video description is btw.

it's not that it's impossible to DI out of or anything. In the first dair, you were too far to get hit by the second hitbox of Dair, while in the second dair you already had momentum in the direction away from hitbox. It was merely dumb luck that you DI'd out of the obvious Dair. It's not impossible, but that hardly proves that you can pull it off in a regular match against a good Lucario. I'm surprised you think you've actually discovered anything new. This is old news, it's SDI'able, but you'd have to have very sharp, korean reflexes to do so.

also get off your high horse plz

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

is this an example of smashkids and their egos?
i think the thread served its purpose whether meaningless or not!

i want to hug someone.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Clearly you Texans are too smart for us. Discovering you can DI out of multihit moves. Next thing you know you'll tell me you can break out of grabs.

 

[:mad:]

This is groundbreaking stuff, I'm glad we can escape our own dair if we ever do it wrong.

 

[Timbers]

Though I want to argue about the "no preptime" for dairs. Most situations are fairly obvious, but uhh like in the case of many moves that even have startup, you are usually already DIing a different direction than you want to when/if you get hit.

The timeframe to SDI would be the same, would it not? I agree that people are less likely to DI moves correctly the faster/more unexpected they come, but you don't NEED a second of prep to DI alot of moves. Plenty of people can DI meta's dsmash right when it comes out because they play the matchup enough. There's a vid of me somewhere SDIing the dsmash at around 80% and teching right next to Meta on a flat surface. That isn't really a freak occurance though.

Anyways, this discussion is pointless.

Like I said in my first post, if you DI the first hit of dair it's because of an ulterior motive for the vast majority of the time.

Not even a second. 12frames is the equivalent of a person's average reaction time. When I say that it's likely impossible to DI the millisecond you're hit by the first dair, I'm not pulling it out of my ***. I already agreed with you that there's plenty of instances where the dair is telegraphed enough to react accordingly, however it is in more of a prediction sense than reaction (I really don't care either way though, the point is if the game lets it happen it will happen, the only variables that effect this is the character you use and how often the Luc misspaces a dair), and that the only reason I posted here in the first place was to correct the use of "SDI."

And again it is possible, but even trying to compare it to the easiness of SDIing/DIing the likes of nado, snake nair, MK fair, etc. is a bit silly. Remember that Luc's momentum is halted completely when using dair. There is no opportunity to DI the opposite way of the hitbox's momentum, and really the only way you can be getting out of it is if the Luc does not space it well. Again, possible, but not to the degree of Snake or MK's multihit moves, where you can SDI all of those fairly easily.

I see there really isn't a point in arguing anymore. Gea and I know what happens. Lee Martin even agrees with us, so at least he knows, which I never doubted in the first place. If you guys don't want to believe us, that's fine. Feel free to close the topic. Anything DI is about prediction and reaction. Mostly reaction though. Maybe in the future people will come back to this topic and say, "Hey, they were right after all."

take this egotistical trash somewhere else. It's been known for a stupid long time that multihit moves, and Luc's dair, do not have 100% success rates. Having only one opportunity to DI out of a two-hit aerial is not something that will occur often against a wellspaced fair, and if the hurtbox is large enough, probably never.

Jesus christ you come in here thinking you struck gold and give us a crappy video that hardly justifies what you're trying to accomplish and then bawwwww when everyone isn't at your feet. No one is denying that it isn't possible, so stop pulling this **** out of no where and getting defensive over it.

cry somewhere else. You wanted a thread related to this stuff, what did you honestly expect when you post SUPAH OLD NEWS? Stop being whiney over it if people don't agree with you, WHICH THEY'RE NOT BY THE WAY.

EDIT: You know what after going back and reading this thread, I think you're mad because people are just like "lol old news" and "so what" when you were probably expecting reactions leading to you being put onto some form of golden pedestal.

lol. correct me if I'm wrong (but I'm probably not)

Clearly you Texans are too smart for us. Discovering you can DI out of multihit moves. Next thing you know you'll tell me you can break out of grabs.

hi stauffy

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Hai Timbuhs. Wanna go get a drink? Spot of tea, guv'na?

 

[Samuelson]

The only way people will get out of Dair is if it's telegraphed or finishes a combo. Too bad Dair is a pretty telegraphed move and it often finishes combo's....

If you use it OoS then it's usually just poorly spaced and the second hit misses often. People really don't get out of my Dair too often....at least not often enough where I start to not use the move because people SDI out of it more times then not.

 

[CRASHiC]

Can you SDI Falco's down throw?

 

[Gea]

Pretty sure no throws can be SDI'd except one of Jiggs (fthrow?), though you can SDI the lasers on Falco's throw. I may be wrong about there not being a few other throws that can be SDI'd, or that Jiggs has one that can. But in general the answer is "no."

 

[Veril]

Pretty sure no throws can be SDI'd except one of Jiggs (fthrow?), though you can SDI the lasers on Falco's throw. I may be wrong about there not being a few other throws that can be SDI'd, or that Jiggs has one that can. But in general the answer is "no."

It would be d-throw but I'm not sure if that is true.

As a Jigglypuff main, and someone with a huge interest in SDI, I can safely say that it is just about humanly impossible to SDI out of the d-air on purpose. I saw Pit's f-smash, diddy's f-smash, and zelda's up-smash. The first is possible to escape depending on spacing. The second really isn't tough to escape. The third is... really really tricky.

Lucario's d-air SDI isn't possible outside of silly perfect control like videos

 

[jog]

*shakes head at lucario boards*

<3 panda

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

 

[Timbers]

xav as much as I love you please stop.

 

[G-Beast]

Meh... this dosent look rather relevant... considering how fast Dair is and how improperly spaced it was in that vid... and like timberz said, SDI is not the correct term for this... maybe if humans were a race of androids i would say this was relevant, but human reflex is simply not fast enough to make use of this.

 

[Lee Martin]

OH MY GOD. All Rt was trying to do was make a point that it could be di'ed out of. and he said that video was a bad example so why so harsh about it. it's obvious that the first dair wasn't too close but i mean c'mon. i di out of lucario's dair 75% of the time from reaction and even when i fought m2k he di'ed out of my dair about 75% of the time too. so does Roy R and a lot of other people lolol. yall are taking this out of proportion. usually its obvious when the dair is going to come anyway... but i mean just practice it. ?

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I see there really isn't a point in arguing anymore. Gea and I know what happens. Lee Martin even agrees with us, so at least he knows, which I never doubted in the first place. If you guys don't want to believe us, that's fine. Feel free to close the topic. Anything DI is about prediction and reaction. Mostly reaction though. Maybe in the future people will come back to this topic and say, "Hey, they were right after all."

Saying crap like this is going to get a negative reaction, big ****ing surprise.

 

[Timbers]

no one cared what RT said about anything till he tried being a pompous douche about it.

 

[Lee Martin]

i dont think yall understand the only one point he was trying to make.

 

[Timbers]

considering if you actually read people's responses, they all agreed with this thread, and even he agreed that the video he posted did not support his claim very well.

and then for whatever reason he got all upset cause people were like "it's old news" or something lol. Everything before that post he made was just arguing semantics between DI and SDI, and explanation of dair's two hitboxes. Come on now, Lee.

 

[Lee Martin]

come on now, lee? WOW. and no offense to those people but i doubt they know what they are talking about either. it's nothing that should have been argued this much though. all i know is when somebody dair's me i will di out <3

someone should close this topic.

 

[Timbers]

and no offense to those people but i doubt they know what they are talking about either. it's nothing that should have been argued this much though. all i know is when somebody dair's me i will di out <3

again have you read this thread at all. has anyone said that it was impossible to DI out of dair? Everyone except like, one guy 2 weeks ago has all agreed exactly with what RT's thread is about, and have been agreeing with it for a while now.

It's like you're getting defensive over nothing and trying to make this smash-related, when the only negative light towards RT was just telling him to stop trying to sound arrogant, especially about news that is already well known and trying to put himself on a pedestal regarding news that is months old.

I guess I should close this. If you want to continue talking about how you don't think I'm right about everything I've already said, take it to PM or VM.