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Yoshi vs Peach (vids & stuff)

Mind Trick

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
670
Location
Amsterdam, NL
Fernandez (Peach) vs mind trick (Yoshi)
1
2
3 (3rd stock -____-)

A friendlies/seriouslies set against one of the best peaches around here.

What do you guys think of the MU and how I played it?
I think catching the turnips more often is definitely something I need to implement in my game, also never again ECE when Peach is next to you. Other than that, perhaps Ill try to be a bit more carefull with DJC and be abit more aware of the power of fair and nair in regards of breaking DJ. I noticed still quite a bit of technical errors I need to work again as well :dizzy:

Any other stuff I need to work on?
 

YOSHIDO

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
927
Location
Waukegan, IL
Yeah u did really good job in scarring her. Like u said. Her N-air is beast dont test it, especially out of shield. Great job keeping movement going. Just be more catious when u play differnt peaches. They tend to stay low to the ground and do nothing but takeout yoshi's jump all day.
 

Mind Trick

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
670
Location
Amsterdam, NL
It does slightly less damage in PAL, but other than that I'm not too much of a fan of using dair save for some specific situations. It's good against characters with predictable recoveries that don't go very high, and as a techchase for the low platforms fullhop dair to edge cancel djc upair is perfect to rack up damage or almost break a shield.

Fastfall dair isn't really worth it imo, you never get all the hits in, startup is really slow and it doesn't have that much range either (a lot of characters can just upsmash/uptilt/upair you out of it).
 

Lordydennek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
987
Location
Columbia Missouri
Well i guess what i do is start it then ff it after it begins. i hardly ever try to get all the hits. its a big demoralizer tho. when it sounds like a machine gun going off lol. When im coming down from real high i mix it up with dairs, yoshi bomb, nothing, or air dodge. it makes ppl think abbout how ill get down and messes them up. oh i like to use the dair as an intercept. one time on BF my frineds fox was hopping araound(like they do) and he djed while i was on the platform above him. so i quickly jumped and daired him all the way to the ground! the full hit! then i dsmashed him after we landed. he then died since he was at 150 or so.
 

Lordydennek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
987
Location
Columbia Missouri
I find that a well spaced fair is just **** in this matchup. and uair can kill pretty early. lol once i platform cancelled a fair off the side then dj and uaired her for a kill....so hot. grabs arent so bad here. I got some good uairs and eggs out of dthrow and uthrow. usmash is the best tho. someone told me that awhile back and honestly i spam it so much against peach. sets her up for more eggs and more uairs. i thought you did great tho in that match
 

Bloshi

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
650
Location
The Triad of Power, NC
I noticed some spots where your eagerness to get the usmash let the Peach get down. This is bad, as having Peach above Yoshi makes beating her sooooo easy. Just go safe to keep her in the air, uairs and eggs will do that provided you play smart. When she gets serious and really wants back down thats when you usmash to her face.

Your movement is so good! Just sometimes it would cause you to miss an usmash or a bair or nair or something. As long as you stay in control. I know sometimes when I'm focused on going really fast I'm not actually throwing out well spaced moves. Just practice it I suppose, although its already better than mine.

Fair is not always the best option, but it is a **** good one. It often leads to tech chases or pops her up. However, like I said before, try to keep her above you, and fair will work against this if she isn't on the ground. Besides, some technical people will just tech it if you hit it in the air.
 

The Prophet_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
185
I love those vids sooooo much. It makes me want to pic up Yoshi right now. Unfortunately I'm working on my Mewtwo so that I can create part two of my combo video: An Inter Dimensional Combo Video, which will be uploaded 12-12-12.

You'll probably see me post vids of my Yoshi sometime later this year.
-I like Low tiers what can I say =D . When I do finally pick him up I'll create a combo video just as my other low tier mains.

Beautiful matches MindTrick, very beautiful =')
 

strawhats

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,273
Location
Bronx
I wonder who's the best Yoshi plaer in the world...now that Fumi retired...Svampen, Mind Trick maybe even Bloshi.
 

yoshiiscool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
352
Location
Murfreesboro, TN (east Pa during summer)
Hey Mind Trick, sorry it took me so long to watch the vids :< I've been in an anti-smash mood xD. Anyways, I can give you some criticism and stuff, though a bit of it will be elaborating on things you already know.

I might be wrong, but I don't think you have much experience with the Peach match-up, that's just what I got from watching the vids, I say this because it really seemed like you only had a basic idea of what works. First off, the useless DJCs really killed you man... I was so disappointed to see you DJC things for no reason, and end up getting punished for them. Peach just has so much mobility, range and power, that it's almost too simple for her to punish Yoshi out of most mistakes he makes. This means fighting a Peach requires a lot of precision and caution, more so than any other match up for Yoshi, in my opinion. I suggest a lot better spaced f-airs, and no more weak n-airs on Peach's shield(they're punishable by b-air/n-air OoS depending on where you are). Also, you didn't do that great of a job keeping her above you, so I just have to remind you play gay man, and don't be afraid to just jump up to her if you're at low%s to u-air through her aerials if she throws 'em out at you. You don't have to wait for her to come down on you is what I mean. Your edgeguarding was pretty funny to me xD, just try to remain patient vs Peach, and remember once she's in her parasol, she's most likely gonna try to mindgame you with the fast fall.


Now on to the things about your game that I saw that I didn't really like. You are good, defintiely, but there's a lot of things I saw that you could work on. You need to, and I stress this, you NEED to learn to follow up when you get your opponent in an unfavorable position. Too many times you let that Peach lie right in front of you after she failed to tech the f-air(more on this later), or you pulled off a decent hit and failed to link it up with something. Smash is about "consecutive hits," if you hit the opponent, you gotta be on them with something smart. I think I saw a few times where you tried to RDJC n-air (and whiffed) after a small launcher like an u-tilt, where it would've been the perfect opportunity for some b-air combage. Your recovery wasn't terribly good either, you didn't mix it up very often, and it was too aggressive most of the time, just get that ledge, and play it safe from there man. Something I know you're prolly not gonna listen to, but I gotta say it, I love your little shield pressuring thing you do with the quick DJC n-airs, but it's kinda useless unless you do it correctly. Number one key thing to remember about DJC n-air shield pressure is that unless you're great at anticipating grabs, and jabbing/f-tilting them, you MUST be behind the other person's shield. The DJC n-airs are punishable, so you wanna get behind them ASAP with those, and toss in some jabs, fake em out with the f-tilt stun, etc. The point of doing this is to get them to roll/jump, so you can punish(a lot easier if they jump). Also **** THAT D-TILT IT'S WORTHLESS AS PRESSURE!!!! People jump over it, and you have too much lag afterwards, and even if you DO manage to hit with it, you get nothing other than a ****in reset out of it! Your movement is great, but don't get too focused on it, I think this is why your spacing isn't great sometimes. You seem too focused on your movement, and you tended to not take into account your opponents movement when you go in for your approach. That's about all really. Keep it up with your Yoshi skills, and I'll be looking forward to more vids of you. Sorry if I'm harsh, I'm just trying to call everything out that I can see, for you to know. Hope I helped.



So then, like I said, get ready for another session of Moo's Yoshi rants, as I try to describe something Yoshi players really suck at. Tech/get-up chasing/guessing. I've been working on this for so long now, and it's just ridiculously hard with Yoshi. He's just not fast enough to tech chase anyone with a decent techroll, and it hinders his game so much. So here's what I'm doing now. I consider it a huge flaw in Yoshi's game, since he can't keep the pressure continuous, and it's almost too easy to get out of Yoshi's stuff. This is all just basic stuff, but I've just never even heard anyone mention this kind of thing here on the Yoshi boards, and no Yoshi videos really showcase any signs of decent tech-chasing, so here goes.

Yoshi's main combo starter is, without a doubt, his f-air, but unfortunately, this move is just a tad too slow for just about any form of tech-chasing, unless you are great at guessing, OR, you set up the tech yourself. That's right people, try rigging the tech yourself by doing some simple things: Force a tech on a platform, or force a tech at the edge of a stage. Doing either of these severely limits your opponents options, and if caught between you and the edge, there's really only 2 locations your opponent can wind up. Congrats, you've cut a chance thing, into an almost sure punish, if you've got decent reaction time (considering you're on the ground, short hop f-air, for in-place tech, DJC f-air for tech forward, and RDJC f-air for tech behind you) Platforms are a bit different, but the same rule applies in that the length of their tech is cut to some distances where it's actually feasible for Yoshi to punish. So, next time you have somebody in an air combo, unless you're on the middle of FD or DL64, try finishing it with a f-air onto a platform/side of the stage, and get that tech! Very easy to set up a d-smash finisher too.

Now, I know there's that other pesky option of them missing a tech, but honestly, that just makes things easier. If you're on the ground and they miss a tech (say you u-tilt a captain falcon, and he flubs a tech in front of you) IMMEDIATELY JAB TO RESET THEM. Watch Mind Tricks vid, he does this at least 3 times(only one time does he really use it correctly though). Now they have invincibility while they're being reset, but it's almost like a tech in place, so you can punish it. Feel free to u-tilt, charge a smash(look at the third match of the set, where mind trick f-airs peach onto a platform, she misses the tech, he jab resets and then charges a f-smash. BEAUTIFUL!), or hell, my favorite, STANDING GRAB AFTER A JAB RESET(perfect for the spacies). So you miss your jab, and expect a get-up attack? Most of the get-up attacks in the game are laggy, and even Yoshi can shieldgrab them, or you could even go fancy, and double jump through it and hover there waiting for the f-air set-up. Rolls are harder to punish if you miss your jab, but it's about the same as punishing the techrolls: possible on platforms or edges, but hard otherwise.

Unfortunately, for most situations though, in mid-stage, a simple tech away from Yoshi is suffice to get away from any type of punishment that he can deal out. I figured I'd just cover this too, and say that the best thing you can do is just sit back, and egg. It's a lot better to just get out a projectile in the other person's direction to put them into the defensive while getting up, than it is for you to attack prematurely, and get punished upon the probable flub.

****, I wrote too much... Maybe I should've just made another topic. Eh, nobody reads my **** anyways. RAWR YOSHI PLAYERS... RAWR!!! I'm mad!! Go **** **** up!! I know there's someone out there who can impress me! <3 Yoshi players.

~Moo
 

Mind Trick

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
670
Location
Amsterdam, NL
Nah that wasn't harsh, that was just a very good analysis of my weaknesses, Ill definitely be working on those points (except for shield pressure in front of people, <3 it too much :p), thank you Moo <3

I'm still a bit clueless about how to effectively edge guard Peach though, I guess you just always wait on stage for her to get back and dsmash/edgehog for low recovery, and just egg for high?

Jab reset is TOO GOOD(although I froze up a couple of times in these vids :(). I've coined the Mind Trick Combo here, for a jab reset near the edge to jump over turn around neutral B :D
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: Yeah, edgeguarding is real hard between her neutral air and her Up+B.

I would say if you see your opponent is perfect with sweetspots, try to trade with down tilt. If they sweetspot well, just do your best and toss eggs under the edge and hope that one of them interrupts. At least you'll be giving it a shot, but yeah, edgeguarding is hard.
 

yoshiiscool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
352
Location
Murfreesboro, TN (east Pa during summer)
I'm not too sure how to edgeguard peach either, to be honest, most of my kills come from the top. Peach's got way too many options, and if she's in her float, you really shouldn't do anything risky. Sooo, here's what I do. Definitely egg when she's further away, don't expect to hit, as peach can n-air, f-air, b-air eggs away in her float easily, just try to annoy them with it. Do NOT egg when she's close to being back on the stage while floating, this'll just lag you and you'll prolly end up eating whatever attack broke the egg, and it'll get FCed into a grab/d-smash. If she parasols far away, feel free to egg however you want, but mainly just to put on some damage, and hopefully get her to come in higher. For me, when peaches come in mid-high, I just go for a KO off the top, rather than trying to push her back out. Not many people would expect an u-air off the stage, and end up DIing poorly, and as we've already established, you want peach above you anyways, so there's no reason not to try this. If you want to mix it up though, instead of an u-air, jump to just about where a peach is, double jump back, and hit her with the back of your n-air, things like that to keep your opponent guessing I guess. You should memorise the angle of peach's It's hard me to write up some type of solid edgeguard vs peach because of all of her options...

So, recap/short version of what I do: start off egging when she's far, be patient when she's going for the ledge(don't get mindgamed by airdodges, or get hit by random aerials) and d-smash/edgehog. If she's not going for the ledge, rather than hitting her back out, try to keep her above you.
 

zack152

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
252
Location
Hartford, Wisconsin
I play against a good peach pretty often. Ill try seeing what I come up with. I havent been into yoshi in a while, but im starting to pick him back up =D

I just watched these vids and like I was excited for the spots inbetween kills, where you would just show off tech skill. I wish my yoshi could only be so cool
 

wilkins

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
96
Location
North York
I was playing Pakman's Yoshi with Peach at *pound* but then we were interrupted because some smelly people that were still in the tournament wanted to play a bracket match. Eggs really hurt. Why do they do 12%? If anything Peach should get healed when eggs hit her because she spends so much time in the kitchen. She has a pan and everything...

Oh yeah this is KirbyKaze.
 
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