Yoshi vs. MK Matchup Discussion

[Mmac]

call it a 50/50 on FD and Smashville and a 60/40 adv. Metaknight for other stages. It may be 60/40 adv Yoshi on FD/SV though, but I'd need to test it to see if it's true. Too bad I don't know any Yoshi players.

I think it would be even all around. If you counterpick a multi platform stage like Battlefield or Lylat Cruise, you're are giving Yoshi the advantage of Low Ground, which he excels greatly in. You are also giving him more cover, limiting your already limited approaches. Yes, you are getting rid of his ability to Chaingrab, but not his Release Usmash combo. He can still do release grabs off the ledge, it's just more limited.

And I'm willing to settle on 50:50. Played a MetaKnight main this morning. Pretty cool guy, and was better then the rest I've played around here. I can honestly say without a doubt that MetaKnight doesn't have an advantage, but the matchup could go either way for now, and I haven't really seen any posts here yet that convinces me otherwise. If he does have the advantage, then it's only minor at best (55:45).

Also I think Pummel Damage refreshes the other attacks, if I can remember.

 

[Sinz]

You're way too persistant. MK doesn't beat Yoshi in Final Destination or Smashville. He wins in every other stage. That's it.

Yoshi has no limitations in his spacing, and can counter almost every one of MK's movement and hitbox mechanics. Down air is an advantage though. People who argue about Yoshi's upsmash priority, are forgetting that Yoshi needs his upsmash fresh to land KO's at 115%, so it's not a real advantage.

Yoshi's pivot grab outprioritizes...EVERYTHING. Everything MK has! He only has advantage by rushing through egg tosses on some approaches, by staying airborne via multiple jumps and by applying some pressure after successful hits. Oh, and Yoshi can FULLY shield the tornado, since he doesn't leave any vulnerable frames around his shield.

I call it a 50/50 on FD and Smashville and a 60/40 adv. Metaknight for other stages. It may be 60/40 adv Yoshi on FD/SV though, but I'd need to test it to see if it's true. Too bad I don't know any Yoshi players.



Ummm...uh-huh...have you heard of spamming? Of course you have, it's what MK does with his down air and mach tornado. You can just spam pivot grabs and egg tosses as Yoshi. It's bound to work.

I always strike those two stages anyways and ban yoshi's Island

Yeah, Yoshi can fully shield the tornado, we know about that. However he has EXTREMELY limited options in the shield. We as players can abuse that easily. The reason I am persistent is because I am cocky. And I know it. I've won all of the tournaments here(except for the one DSF came for.) We've had players start to main Snake just to beat me, and nobody has done it yet. We have a diehard Yoshi player here too, who knows how to do all of the yoshi sheananigans, so I know the MU decently. However, I do know that the Dair stops majority of characters in their tracks. He tries not to shield vs me, but I don't get grabbed because I have played DSF. He showed me how to not get grabbed, and let me tell you. Since July, i have entered 4 tournaments, and have only been grabbed 6 times. I am serious about that statement. I have beaten Snakes, and all kinds of players.

Aside from that little statement, that many of you won't read. I still fully believe that MK wins vs Yoshi.

And when I said the Upsmash beats the dair, I was referring to priority.

Plus foot stooling is cool too

 

[Mmac]

I always strike those two stages anyways and ban yoshi's Island

Yeah, I hate Yoshi's Island too. Something about that stage I just don't like

Yeah, Yoshi can fully shield the tornado, we know about that. However he has EXTREMELY limited options in the shield. We as players can abuse that easily.

True, but if he's shielding the Tornado, then he's not maintaining a defencive position which he should be in this matchup. He should be countering it with a Pivot Grab or a Usmash.

We have a diehard Yoshi player here too, who knows how to do all of the yoshi sheananigans, so I know the MU decently. However, I do know that the Dair stops majority of characters in their tracks. He tries not to shield vs me, but I don't get grabbed

Whats get me is that you keep posting situations that shouldn't happen in the first place, or post things that are just not true (Can easily get Dair's against Yoshi). If you are basing the Matchup on this person, then I have reason to doubt that he isn't as good as you say he is.

Plus foot stooling is cool too

And I'll say it again:

It might be worth mentioning that Footstooling only happens if Yoshi's isn't already in the process of an action. If Yoshi is Airdodging or Attacking, then you can't Footstool him

It's a simple fact, If you can footstool the Yoshi easily, then he isn't a good Yoshi.

 

[Sinz]

I never said he was good

Foot stooling is just icing on the cake. Because of the dair.(yes i approve of this move way too much.)
Dair to footstool is cool .

Aside from that.

Would you please list the usual approaches you use against MK, or do you wait for him to come?
How do you force him into a pivot grab?
How do you kill him effectively?
And, assume that the MK is one of the better MKs,(like top 10 to top 15 mks. Which I believe I am in.)

 

[Mmac]

I never said he was good

No comment...

Foot stooling is just icing on the cake. Because of the dair.(yes i approve of this move way too much.)
Dair to footstool is cool .

As much as you love Dair's, I doubt it will work in most situations as a Edgeguard. Again, Yoshi's Airspeed compared to MetaKnight's, Yoshi can easily just breeze past him with a airdodge.

And, assume that the MK is one of the better MKs,(like top 10 to top 15 mks. Which I believe I am in.)

I know, I know what MetaKnight can do

Would you please list the usual approaches you use against MK, or do you wait for him to come?

The main problem is that Yoshi can't Approach MetaKnight worth crap. Bair, his primary approach, gets beaten. His Nair gets beaten. Fair is out of the question. Dash is predictable as hell, Egg Roll is just stupid to use, especially against MetaKnight. The only decent one is Dair, but even that has his flaws.

But Yoshi doesn't need to approach. MetaKnight is a Melee based character. He HAS to approach, the only time when he can play defensively is if his opponent is approaching, or the other character is also Melee Based, and waits for him to come to you. Yoshi has a Projectile, and can make you go on the offencive whenever you like it or not.

How do you force him into a pivot grab?

Well first thing is to get him onto the offencive. He's going to know what to expect so he's probably going to stand his guard. Eggs works well if he's far away. Well spaced eggs can do a good job, but if you don't space it good enough and throw one when he's too close, then MetaKnight can just move in and attack when he's open. A Perfectly spaced Egg Toss can give it the illusion of what appears to be an opening, but has enough time to react, Pivot Grab, and most likely to catch him off guard.

I guess the most common scenario is when he's mid distance holding back. Obviously you can't use Eggs (and really wish he still had the drop egg's from Melee). It really depends on the spacing, where MetaKnight is, what he's doing, and what you can do. Baiting him into an attack is probably the best tactic in this case. Using an action purposely to leave yourself open, but not something long enough that he can get an attack in.

And then there's the ones that just go straight into him. I can see by looking at MetaKnight closely, and if I see an irregularity in his movement, then I can see what he will do. Proper spacing is the key. Normally using it at max range doesn't really work well, as MetaKnight will most likely telegraphically anticipate a Pivot, and Spotdodge. The good time to do it is alittle after it's maximum range, then you can see if he's Spotdodging or attacking. If he spotdodges too early, he can be punished for it. On the extreme, you can actually space a crouch, fool him thinking you're doing something (Remember, this is split second decisions here), Causing him to Spotdodge, and Punish. I'm not sure if it will work with a Legendary MetaKnight, but it has tricked the good local MetaKnights in my town a Majority of the time (My town consists of Me, a Yoshi user, My friend, an Marth User, Some dude who uses Falco, and about 11 different MetaKnights).

You can't really deny that it takes alot of effort just for MetaKnight to get an attack in. But I guess the same can be said to Yoshi maintaining a stable defence.

How do you kill him effectively?

That's pretty easy, as Yoshi has alot of inescapable moves..... Ok, 3, but most people only have one! Anyways, Since half his defence is Pivot Grabs, he's obviously going to grab him alot. Chaingrabbing helps racks up damage, but only on either flat stages (Final Destination, Smashville), or Non Platform heavy stages (Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Normal part of Pokemon Stadium, Some parts of Delfino). The Release Grab to Fair Spike works really well, and can kill at very low percents. However it only works if the positioning is correct, which is hard to do on Platform heavy stages. He also has another Release Grab off the ledge into an Nair, which kills at 80% Fresh. This doesn't require positioning.

Last is his Release Grab to Usmash, which can be used at any stage with correct positioning. Now, being that it's the Usmash and more commonly used, he's going to have to refresh it. I think Chew damage refreshes (Forget), but he can also mix it up with a Dash attack or Egg Roll on release. Egg Roll also works really well gathering damage at Low Percents. If all else fails, he still has his Uair, which can kill MetaKnight also pretty easily at a reasonable percent, but he actually has to work to get the hit.

But if you want impressions from someone who actually played people like M2K, you should speak to NC1 Pride. I still think he's borderline even at the least.

 

[Kiwikomix]

From what I can see so far, MK has to bait Yoshi into whiffing an attack in order to beat out his defenses. That's all well and good, but Yoshi really doesn't have that many punishable ground attacks. Fsmash and dsmash, sure, but I can't see why he would be using them at that time. Standing grab, yes, but why bother when you can pivot? Ftilt, dtilt, usmash, pivots, and jab have almost no ending lag and are therefore pretty much unpunishable.

 

[The Real Inferno]

In my experience. I feel Yoshi is actually the best pick against a Metaknight provided you are very experienced with him. The problem is, it takes quite a bit of practice to make sure you can handle the match up and dedicating time to just Yoshi is asking you to get ***** by all the characters that work against Yoshi if that's you're only high quality char. However, I believe picking up a Yoshi secondary is the very spirit of "Metagaming" in fighting games as he's a great character to take on the top tier while avoiding a mirror match.

 

[Sinz]

No comment...



As much as you love Dair's, I doubt it will work in most situations as a Edgeguard. Again, Yoshi's Airspeed compared to MetaKnight's, Yoshi can easily just breeze past him with a airdodge.



I know, I know what MetaKnight can do



The main problem is that Yoshi can't Approach MetaKnight worth crap. Bair, his primary approach, gets beaten. His Nair gets beaten. Fair is out of the question. Dash is predictable as hell, Egg Roll is just stupid to use, especially against MetaKnight. The only decent one is Dair, but even that has his flaws.

But Yoshi doesn't need to approach. MetaKnight is a Melee based character. He HAS to approach, the only time when he can play defensively is if his opponent is approaching, or the other character is also Melee Based, and waits for him to come to you. Yoshi has a Projectile, and can make you go on the offencive whenever you like it or not.



Well first thing is to get him onto the offencive. He's going to know what to expect so he's probably going to stand his guard. Eggs works well if he's far away. Well spaced eggs can do a good job, but if you don't space it good enough and throw one when he's too close, then MetaKnight can just move in and attack when he's open. A Perfectly spaced Egg Toss can give it the illusion of what appears to be an opening, but has enough time to react, Pivot Grab, and most likely to catch him off guard.

I guess the most common scenario is when he's mid distance holding back. Obviously you can't use Eggs (and really wish he still had the drop egg's from Melee). It really depends on the spacing, where MetaKnight is, what he's doing, and what you can do. Baiting him into an attack is probably the best tactic in this case. Using an action purposely to leave yourself open, but not something long enough that he can get an attack in.

And then there's the ones that just go straight into him. I can see by looking at MetaKnight closely, and if I see an irregularity in his movement, then I can see what he will do. Proper spacing is the key. Normally using it at max range doesn't really work well, as MetaKnight will most likely telegraphically anticipate a Pivot, and Spotdodge. The good time to do it is alittle after it's maximum range, then you can see if he's Spotdodging or attacking. If he spotdodges too early, he can be punished for it. On the extreme, you can actually space a crouch, fool him thinking you're doing something (Remember, this is split second decisions here), Causing him to Spotdodge, and Punish. I'm not sure if it will work with a Legendary MetaKnight, but it has tricked the good local MetaKnights in my town a Majority of the time (My town consists of Me, a Yoshi user, My friend, an Marth User, Some dude who uses Falco, and about 11 different MetaKnights).

You can't really deny that it takes alot of effort just for MetaKnight to get an attack in. But I guess the same can be said to Yoshi maintaining a stable defence.



That's pretty easy, as Yoshi has alot of inescapable moves..... Ok, 3, but most people only have one! Anyways, Since half his defence is Pivot Grabs, he's obviously going to grab him alot. Chaingrabbing helps racks up damage, but only on either flat stages (Final Destination, Smashville), or Non Platform heavy stages (Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Normal part of Pokemon Stadium, Some parts of Delfino). The Release Grab to Fair Spike works really well, and can kill at very low percents. However it only works if the positioning is correct, which is hard to do on Platform heavy stages. He also has another Release Grab off the ledge into an Nair, which kills at 80% Fresh. This doesn't require positioning.

Last is his Release Grab to Usmash, which can be used at any stage with correct positioning. Now, being that it's the Usmash and more commonly used, he's going to have to refresh it. I think Chew damage refreshes (Forget), but he can also mix it up with a Dash attack or Egg Roll on release. Egg Roll also works really well gathering damage at Low Percents. If all else fails, he still has his Uair, which can kill MetaKnight also pretty easily at a reasonable percent, but he actually has to work to get the hit.

But if you want impressions from someone who actually played people like M2K, you should speak to NC1 Pride. I still think he's borderline even at the least.

See now we are getting somewhere

Now my question is about the grab release to Fair.
What percentage do you have to be at for it to be an effective kill? Are there any frames that MK do anything between the release and the fair?

 

[Mmac]

See now we are getting somewhere

Now my question is about the grab release to Fair.
What percentage do you have to be at for it to be an effective kill? Are there any frames that MK do anything between the release and the fair?

From average in most Stages, Yoshi's Fair can kill MetaKnight at 48% Fresh. He needs to be killed from the spike because of course it's MetaKnight, and can recover from anywhere. Positioned right, and with perfect reactions, MetaKnight will only have about 1 or 2 Frames to react, which is not enough time to do anything

 

[bludhoundz]

Usmash is not a move you can spam against MK as a defense. He can do 2 dairs before you can complete 1 Usmash (and he can hit Yoshi's body, not just his head). I really do not see how this is a viable defense. There too much startup and ending lag. In order to actually hit MK with it, you have to predict where he's going. If the MK is hard to predict, you're gonna whiff the air and get punished.

The pivot grab outprioritizes moves, yes. But if you are out of range, what can you do? Nothing really. If MK dashes in you can hope that he doesn't dodge your pivot grab with either a spotdodge or a roll (yes, he has both of those options).

And this is all considering Yoshi and MK are starting apart. Once MK gets close up, the pivot grab's range means nothing. The Usmash's lag becomes too great for it to become a viable option when MK is really close.

I'm not saying that Yoshi can't take MK, he certainly can and it obviously isn't an awful match like most people have against MK. But these 2 defensive options are not foolproof by any means. If MK were as linear as rushing in and attacking, then they would be. But he mess with your timing using mindgames. If you don't try to pivot grab or Usmash before he's too close, you get hit. If you start the attacks too early, MK will dodge and punish. You have to nail him every time, and I'll be ****ed if a skilled player will let you do that.

 

[Mmac]

Usmash is not a move you can spam against MK as a defense. He can do 2 dairs before you can complete 1 Usmash (and he can hit Yoshi's body, not just his head). I really do not see how this is a viable defense. There too much startup and ending lag. In order to actually hit MK with it, you have to predict where he's going. If the MK is hard to predict, you're gonna whiff the air and get punished.

Well first of all, Yoshi really isn't going to wait until MetaKnight is right on him until he's going to do a Usmash. There's really not that much startup lag at all. Plus you have to admit that MetaKnight is rediciously slow moving in the air. I don't think it would be that hard to knock him out of the sky.

The pivot grab outprioritizes moves, yes. But if you are out of range, what can you do? Nothing really. If MK dashes in you can hope that he doesn't dodge your pivot grab with either a spotdodge or a roll (yes, he has both of those options).

I already covered the Range thing. As for the Spotdodging Factor, If he does it too early, he'll be out of range to do anything before he can recover from it, which he can just Jab or Tilt you away. Doing it too late will result in either you getting grabbed, or Allows him to recover in time. I forgot about Rolling, but doesn't that take longer for him to recover out of than a Spotdodge? Plus it does take more frames for the Dodge Frames to activate, and I don't even think he'll be behind Yoshi in the first place, resulting in even more time wasting in counter-attacking.

And this is all considering Yoshi and MK are starting apart. Once MK gets close up, the pivot grab's range means nothing. The Usmash's lag becomes too great for it to become a viable option when MK is really close.

Remember, Spacing for Yoshi is the most important aspect of this fight. Good Spacing can cancel out the deficit of MetaKnight fast Ground Speed and good Approaches

I'm not saying that Yoshi can't take MK, he certainly can and it obviously isn't an awful match like most people have against MK. But these 2 defensive options are not foolproof by any means.

Again, I don't claim that this defence is foolproof (Pretty much any wall isn't), but it still make it very difficult for MetaKnight to get in directly

If MK were as linear as rushing in and attacking, then they would be.

Yeah, I wish. If only MetaKnight was more like Ganondorf

But he mess with your timing using mindgames. If you don't try to pivot grab or Usmash before he's too close, you get hit. If you start the attacks too early, MK will dodge and punish. You have to nail him every time, and I'll be ****ed if a skilled player will let you do that.

Remember, Yoshi can do the same thing to you if MetaKnight starts being tricky (And most likely will). I think the entire matchup could just come down to "Who has the better Mindgames?" and it really can

 

[Kiwikomix]

^^ That's what I was noticing a little while ago, that the matchup relies on who can draw out a hit first. That screams "neutral" to me, but unfortunately MK has a lot more options when it comes to that (due to the fact that every attack he has is unpunishable, with the exception of some of his specials).

 

[Mmac]

I know he has unpunishable moves, But you really aren't dealing with them. You're not trying to dodge and counterattack, you're trying to outright beat his moves. This is why it's important to maintain a defencive formation because those 2 (And Uair in some cases) can.


Edit: New Discovery! Yoshi can also Ground DownB MetaKnight on Release! This also means that he has yet another anavoidable kill option which kills at 96% Fresh (Tested at FD).

He's got so many unavoidable kills on him it's not even funny. I doubt he'll live anywhere past 120%

 

[Zephramrill]

Yoshi is my tertiary character (GaW main, PT secondary) and I tend to favor GaW for Meta Knight. This thread will definitely make me consider Yoshi as a viable option. That being said, ones Yoshi would have to be at a high level of play to demonstrate the defense needed. It sounds like this match (a good Yoshi vs a good MK) could span the distance of a match (7min 3 stock)if neither player takes too many risks. A question for the Proshis; If you are caught above a Nado what are your options? Does ground pound (down b) break it?

 

[Mmac]

A question for the Proshis; If you are caught above a Nado what are your options? Does ground pound (down b) break it?

Proshi's, Thats clever ^_^

All 3 of his Downward attacks (Dair, DownB, and Nair) Work because his Htbox isn't covering his Head (Although this is true with everyone and their Dair/Nair/Fall Specials). Personally I find Nair more Reliable because you can steer it in. He can shift the tornado so that he can catch you in the sides if you DownB. Also Dair is weird as it sometimes wants to hit the tornado, cancelling each kick.

 

[Zephramrill]

Thank you. Do you have any videos of a Yoshi vs Metaknight battle? Ive seen one or two before, but nothing in which the Yoshi won a Best of 3.

 

[Mmac]

Thank you. Do you have any videos of a Yoshi vs Metaknight battle? Ive seen one or two before, but nothing in which the Yoshi won a Best of 3.

I don't have any at the moment. You should ask NC1 PRiDE, he's played some really good MetaKnights (Even M2K), so he should have video's of the matchup somewhere....

 

[TKD]

Edit: Someone pointed out that they could just Counterpick a Platform heavy stage like Battlefield/Lylat. Honestly though, I think it will only improve slightly at best. You're limiting his ability to chaingrab, but at the cost of adding in platforms. The problem is that you're giving Yoshi Defencive Cover, limiting you're already limited approaches even more. Not to mention that Yoshi excels greatly at Low Ground with Rising Airs, a Long Range Usmash, a good Anti-Air Projectile, and you're making it easier to land Uair's on you. Plus they wouldn't stop a release grab Usmash most of the time anyways.

I've been able space my grab release chaingrab just so I avoid the possibility of MK landing on a platform, on Battlefield. It's harder on Yoshi's Story but still possible.

The only neutral where it's unusual to pull off a grab release chaingrab that reaches the edge is Lylat Cruise.

So yeah, a lot of MK players may not actually know what they're talking about. MK's best weapons against Yoshi are his dash attack, his dashgrab and his very extremely effective Mach Tornado. The dash moves go through an egg toss or a dtilt from Yoshi. It can be pivot grabbed though. And MK can't dair camp. Against a good Yoshi player, MK usually receives an upsmash while he tries his 2nd/3rd dair or a Tornado, outprioritized by the upsmash from below.

The only critical problem for Yoshi against MK is the Mach Tornado. It ***** HARD. I explained that on the MK boards.

 

[Mmac]

The tornado doesn't screw him up that much if hit, but it will throw off the Tempo, which is the most important aspect of this Matchup. And as I explained, he has alot of options of dealing with the Tornado.

As an Edgeguard..... You know, I don't think I've ever been Edgeguarded by it O_o

But I can imagine that an Egg can take care of that during his recovery depending on location, then just DJAD to safety

 

[Finding Waldo]

It depends on who is playing which.

 

[TKD]

Yoshi has anwers to the tornado...yes. Random tornadoes. But not an answer to the classic I-nado-while-you-try-to-fall-back-onto-the-stage nadoes. Snake has the best answer for those. Falling with a nade in hand.

 

[Mmac]

It depends on who is playing which.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of a Neutral Matchup? Whoever plays their character better will win?

Yoshi has anwers to the tornado...yes. Random tornadoes. But not an answer to the classic I-nado-while-you-try-to-fall-back-onto-the-stage nadoes. Snake has the best answer for those. Falling with a nade in hand.

He has a Fastfall Nair, His Dair, and his DownB. Hell even a Falling SideB Breaks it!

 

[TKD]

He has a Fastfall Nair, His Dair, and his DownB. Hell even a Falling SideB Breaks it!

The Mach Tornado is best performed so the sides hit you. It shouldn't be performed from directly below an opponent. That right there has a bigger range and priority than a fastfalled nair. Same goes for nair. ...same for DownB. And...goes for the sideB too, I think.

So it beats everything, and since it's meant to render airdodging into the stage useless, airdodging oubviously doesn't work either.

Besides, by nairing, you still risk getting shuttle looped or hit by an aerial. That's why people usually airdodge into the ground and get hit by the nado.

 

[Mmac]

Isn't he already in the act of a Tornado though? Plus Nair/Dair has tons of Flexibility

 

[Browny]

intruiging thread...

what answers does yoshi have to an MK that repeatedly upb-glide attack cancel -dsmashes the entire game? i see a low of talk about avoiding the tornado, his dash attack, dair etc but not much about this.

 

[TKD]

Isn't he already in the act of a Tornado though? Plus Nair/Dair has tons of Flexibility

Hmm...it IS possible to just fastfall away from MK if MK isn't horizontally close enough, or simply fastfall a nair if he's too close. That's some crazy spacing.

I don't think much of landing a dair if you're gonna get landing lag. I think you get hit back, making the objective, landing safely, fail.

 

[TKD]

intruiging thread...

what answers does yoshi have to an MK that repeatedly upb-glide attack cancel -dsmashes the entire game? i see a low of talk about avoiding the tornado, his dash attack, dair etc but not much about this.

Umm space real nice? Run away and egg throw?

And for MK to get close enough to try downsmashing doesn't happen very often. He'll get pivot grabbed.

Really, MKs that resort to dash attack/grab setups, know about dair camping and that abuse the nado are the hard ones. Spamming downsmash and forward air (and the upB from the ground) isn't in MK's schedule now. I'd get away, pivot grab him from behind or dash attack into upsmash from below (the earlier the better since upsmash and glide attack clash).

 

[Browny]

i mean this sort of MK...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKQprvO58Q

What can yoshi do against that sort of playstyle?

 

[Kiwikomix]

You can grab MK out of a shuttle loop. He also has a bit more ground and air speed than NikoK's Peach, so he can at least run away. It also doesn't take the massive toll on his shield that it seems to on that Peach. Usmash also beats dair.
Peach was mainly suffering there due to the lack of range she has on her attacks, which is something Yoshi doesn't have to worry about with his grabs.

 

[Gindler]

He can Usmash, Bair, chuck some eggs, do an unexpected ground pound, pivot grab, heck maybe even egg roll? He has a few options but that kinda MK is slightly more annoying to deal with...well for the first match till you figure out how to beat it.

 

[bludhoundz]

Remember, Spacing for Yoshi is the most important aspect of this fight. Good Spacing can cancel out the deficit of MetaKnight fast Ground Speed and good Approaches

Again, I don't claim that this defence is foolproof (Pretty much any wall isn't), but it still make it very difficult for MetaKnight to get in directly

Remember, Yoshi can do the same thing to you if MetaKnight starts being tricky (And most likely will). I think the entire matchup could just come down to "Who has the better Mindgames?" and it really can

I guess it is kind of a mindgames war, but you have to admit MK does have more options..

This gives him a greater number of mindgames and thus an advantage in this situation.

Yoshi definitely has some of better options against MK compared to the rest of the cast, but he is still at a slight disadvantage in this fight I believe. I think people who have been saying it's 50/50 on FD / flat stages and 60/40 on the others are right. Yeah, BF gives Yoshi some more options too, but it gives MK TONS more options, hell even a Marth player wouldn't really want to play MK on this stage.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

can't yoshi use DR or is DR already in equation for the spacing.
Can he grab from a DR? in which case wouldn't that make it easier to punish mk with?

Yoshi seems to have a slight advantage from what you guys say on FD and Smash ville, and then draws even? on Battle field and then everything else is neutral.
What about Corneria and Jungle japes (is that banned? I think it's CP) a spike on jungle japes could be lethal due to the fish and water, and corneria has a low ceiling doesn't it?

Just asking questions to better myself.

 

[Mmac]

can't yoshi use DR or is DR already in equation for the spacing.
Can he grab from a DR? in which case wouldn't that make it easier to punish mk with?

Yoshi seems to have a slight advantage from what you guys say on FD and Smash ville, and then draws even? on Battle field and then everything else is neutral.
What about Corneria and Jungle japes (is that banned? I think it's CP) a spike on jungle japes could be lethal due to the fish and water, and corneria has a low ceiling doesn't it?

Just asking questions to better myself.

Yes he can, but I guess it is already in the equation for spacing. Yoshi's Running Grab and Pivot Grab are scripted, so DR's won't make them slide or anything. Maybe Standing Grabs, but I hate it. Although I would be surprised if he moved across the entire stage as the speed of Falcon grabbing...

Along with FD and Smashville (And Pictochat), Yoshi also has an advantage on a stage with any form of walkoff (Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Distant Planet, Green Hill Zone, Yoshi's Island Melee). Coneria and Jungle Japes are counterpick, and I can see how I can work in his favour, but I don't really play on those stages.

FYI, The fish is actually a Klap Trap

 

[ChronoPenguin]

are you sure about some of that walk off? Distant planet and yoshi's island melee ends on hills don't they won't those disrupt the CG by making MK land earlier?

Also what if MK just IDC camps, you can't perma shield it he can use it to get right on you, and I think the slide would push the shield too far for yoshi to grab, so MK just approached you with IDC he comes out through the air and does an airdodge, he doesn't come by the ground because he doesn't want to risk the grab and punish the pivot grab is tricky so he comes by air, comes in close on the head not far so that he can get off an airdodge to bait a Usmash, MK is in your blindspot now basically he grabs you or hits with a dsmash, at which point yoshi is probably in the air, gimping may be tricky but shuttle loop can get you, so MK baits the DJ? even if you AD, depending on where yoshi is recovering from, MK can get back first possibly if yoshi went high up, at which point yoshi has no jump....

just saying stuff.

 

[Mmac]

Distant Planet's Hill isn't steep enough. Yoshi's Island's puts it into sort of more into an issue. You can still Release Grab Chainthrow upwards, but you can Fthrow chain upwards in Low %'s also.

MK Can't Camp. Yoshi shouldn't Shield Grab (And if he does, he deserves to be punished). If MetaKnight Airdodges too early, it's obvious to see and can be punished. And for Recovery, I have no idea what you just said.

 

[Naucitos]

i think IDC = interdimensional cape? in which case it wouldn't be camping so much as not being there..but it doesen't seem to work that well either

 

[The Real Inferno]

Um, bringing up IDC is pointless as it is banned.

 

[Affinity]

i think IDC = interdimensional cape?

Infinite Dimensional Cape

 

[The Real Inferno]

OMFG Affinity is in a Yoshi thread! GET HIM!

About the hill on Yoshi's Island Melee, it actually makes it easy to catch Meta with the Usmash Release grab as he will fall closer to you (not to mention it will kill him sooner on that stage). on the other hand, the short blast zone's benefit Meta's Shuttle Loop quite a bit.

 

[Mmac]

OMFG Affinity is in a Yoshi thread! GET HIM!

About the hill on Yoshi's Island Melee, it actually makes it easy to catch Meta with the Usmash Release grab as he will fall closer to you (not to mention it will kill him sooner on that stage). on the other hand, the short blast zone's benefit Meta's Shuttle Loop quite a bit.

Yes, MetaKnight's Shuttle Loop becomes more dangerous, but Yoshi becomes super dangerous! Yoshi has to work alot less to KO MetaKnight because of the low ceiling.

Also, he has a Walk Off on Low %'s to KO with