Yoshi v. Fox

[Z'zgashi]

I go stright yoshi ALL DAY. But im so bad in this mu, I really need to learn to play it...

 

[4Biddin]

I just go straight to pika to counterpick fox.
Sorry fox's....D:

So what happens when the fox main pulls out their GDLK metaknight then? now you have your cp fighting meta and your yoshi will have to fight meta. You may get that one win but you trade it to fight a harder character when you would be better off just fighting fox with yoshi.

At least thats what would happened if you cp'ed my fox any way lol

 

[Z'zgashi]

I have a much easier time fighting mk than fox, so since I dont CP chars, I'd much rather you switch

 

[Poltergust]

Well, this is based off of if I win the 1st match then lose the 2nd match. If you choose to go Fox the 3rd match then I can CP Sheik and you can't do anything about it. Or, you'd just stay with your secondary (which still makes it easier).

Yeah, that's why the first match is the most important one in a set against Fox. Fox mains better make sure not to lose that or else they'll be totally screwed by the counterpicking system.

 

[4Biddin]

Well lets remember the match would most likely be on a stage where MK has a huge advantage so its still unwise unless you wanna get sharked all day on a stage like delfino or halberd or brinstar.

Just saying, sounds like the match up consensus is just cp shiek since the fox v. yoshi MU is too hard.




EDIT: oh and Poltergust what happens if the fox wins the first match? do you still cp chars?

 

[YOSHssb]

Just saying, sounds like the match up consensus is just cp shiek since the fox v. yoshi MU is too hard.

I'll never cp sheik/Pikachu against Fox. Yoshi all the way. If I lose, then it was because I played badly with my main or got outplayed, and if I win, it's because I beat my opponent with my main (not because I had to switch characters in order to do it). I play to win, yes, but I also play to win AS YOSHI.

Also, Polt, just out of curiosity, if it does go to a 3rd game, that means that you did win Yoshi/Fox (assuming you won the first game like you're saying). If that's the case, why switch to Sheik when you've already proven earlier in the match that you can beat the Fox you're playing with Yoshi?

 

[Poltergust]

EDIT: oh and Poltergust what happens if the fox wins the first match? do you still cp chars?

I would on the 2nd match, but then I'd be forced to switch back to Yoshi on the 3rd match.

Also, Polt, just out of curiosity, if it does go to a 3rd game, that means that you did win Yoshi/Fox (assuming you won the first game like you're saying). If that's the case, why switch to Sheik when you've already proven earlier in the match that you can beat the Fox you're playing with Yoshi?

Because it makes it an auto-win. Better safe than sorry, right? =P

 

[YOSHssb]

I guess... But the way i look at tournaments, if you're not gonna win money (and neither of us are gonna win money in regular singles at Hobos anytime soon), then I don't see a point to CPing a character just so you can place slightly higher. Maybe I'm just different when I look at tournaments, but it doesn't matter to me where I place (Ya hear that Stocky? =) As long as it's not last) if I know I'm not gonna get money. I mean, bracket **** happens (look at Ozz at Hobo28. He has consistently placed like top 7 at every Hobo I've seen him play and he got 25th this time).

If you are in the running for money though, then by all means don't throw that away just for the pride of going solely Yoshi for an entire tournament. Just my opinion =P

 

[Poltergust]

I guess... But the way i look at tournaments, if you're not gonna win money (and neither of us are gonna win money in regular singles at Hobos anytime soon), then I don't see a point to CPing a character just so you can place slightly higher. Maybe I'm just different when I look at tournaments, but it doesn't matter to me where I place (Ya hear that Stocky? =) As long as it's not last) if I know I'm not gonna get money. I mean, bracket **** happens (look at Ozz at Hobo28. He has consistently placed like top 7 at every Hobo I've seen him play and he got 25th this time).

If you are in the running for money though, then by all means don't throw that away just for the pride of going solely Yoshi for an entire tournament. Just my opinion =P

That's a terrible mindset, Yosh. If you don't believe you can win, then you won't. I enter every tournament I go to fully confident to win it. Sure, things usually don't work out as planned, but you learn from your mistakes and become better off of it.

I don't know about you, but I'm certainly not going to put myself down and say that I can't win. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it.

Also, pride of only going Yoshi? There's no pride there. I just choose the characters that I want to play as. It just so happens that all of my characters (Yoshi, Luigi, Zelda/Sheik) are not really good characters in this game. But what can you do?

(If I were a Melee player, I would play as Sheik, Peach, and Jigglypuff. I hate Yoshi in Melee)

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi is so much more fun in melee

Edit: Look where that mindsets gotten u polt.
13th: Yosh
17th:...polturgust

 

[YOSHssb]

If I wanted to truly win money, then I'd develop Lucario (who is the only other character I love to play) and drop Yoshi almost entirely. Yes, I would love to win money, and I DO win money every time I play in tournaments in my own state. But first and foremost in Brawl, I wanna have fun, and to me, the challenge of playing only Yoshi and being known as a Yoshi-only main is fun for me.

When the game first came out, I used to counterpick characters. I had a G&W that I pulled out for Falco, and Snake, I had Lucario for Marth and Pit, and I had ZSS for Wolf. But just in playing the game for this long, I realize that I don't need those other characters. I've won matches that I probably shouldn't have won because I go into every match I play like I'm going to win it. Even my games against M2K, I sat down and said, "I'm going to beat his MK." There wasn't any, "Well, he's M2K so I'll give it my shot" or anything like that; so don't get me wrong, I go into everything I play with aspirations of winning, but after going to these Hobo tournaments for over a year now, I'm not going to win unless it's a low-tier event.

Believe me, every tournament I've gone to that wasn't Hobo (even Genesis), I psyched myself up weeks or even months before the tournaments actually happen and I have had dreams about winning them. Even if I never place top 3 in any big tournament outside my state, I'd feel happier and more fulfilled when the gaming scene for Brawl dies knowing that everything that I DID accomplish, I did by going solely Yoshi. I'd rather be known as "that Yoshi guy" rather than "That good guy who also had a decent Yoshi." Anyway, I'm rambling.

TLDR:
I go into every tournament match that I ever play like I'm going to win it regardless of my opponent. I know from over a year's worth of experience in Hobo that I'm not going to place in money at Hobo for a long time. I'd rather stay as Yoshi only (who's my best character and the character I have the most fun with) than pick up an alternate character just for one or two characters that I have trouble with.


ANYWAY

How about this Fox MU? Isn't it time to submit ratios or something and move onto the next character?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ill give it another day or so. And I would help, but I fail in this mu so I wont...

 

[NAKAT]

Polt man that is so low. Why would you do that to Fox players, if yoshi had death MU's we'd never use them agaist you guys. Some plAyers are just desperate now a days. Oh I think you went to MLG DC, if so good job beating who you beat.

 

[Delta-cod]

Polt man that is so low. Why would you do that to Fox players, if yoshi had death MU's we'd never use them agaist you guys. Some plAyers are just desperate now a days. Oh I think you went to MLG DC, if so good job beating who you beat.

Play to win.

And I've had people pick Wolf on me, but it's not that bad.

The only reason I wouldn't go Sheik on you is because you're my friend. You better believe I'm gaying the **** out of any Fox I don't have massive respect for as a friend. =/

 

[Yikarur]

Wolf is only a bad MU if the Wolf knows how to against play Yoshi. You can't just pick a bad Yoshi MU and win with that against a "good" Yoshi Player (that's for a lot of Match-ups)
Yoshi:MK is also decent if you don't play an experienced MK.

but Yoshi:Fox is awful =( xD

 

[NAKAT]

Play to win.

And I've had people pick Wolf on me, but it's not that bad.

The only reason I wouldn't go Sheik on you is because you're my friend. You better believe I'm gaying the **** out of any Fox I don't have massive respect for as a friend. =/

Mateo Wolf can't 0 to death you.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Wolf's howl taunt gives yoshi 12 seconds of lag

 

[4Biddin]

Funny thing is one of my buddies told me if we ever met in bracket he is picking shiek and since that day I have been gettin my meta game up(no pun intended lol) no LGL= im plankin the frick out of shiek

 

[Delta-cod]

Mateo Wolf can't 0 to death you.

Doesn't Sheik need to land like, ~28% first?

I understand how ****ty it is for Fox, and that's why I'd rather not do it.

Besides, Wolf isn't even a bad MU.

 

[Poltergust]

Fox isn't hard to grab and juggle when I'm playing as Sheik, though. Two grab will do about 18%, and an u-tilt will do the rest. Needles can work, too. Then it's just a matter of looking for an opening to f-tilt.

 

[YOSHssb]

Z, have us vote on this one already so we can all laugh at the Ganondorf MU next.

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol, alright, vote now (and the falco one as well if you haven't)!! Im not posting a link though this time cuz im too lazy.

 

[MX778]

Fox's metagame revolves heavily on forcing approaches and extreme shield pressure.

Honestly, It's really hard to approach Fox, but not impossble. Fox probably has the strongest sheild in the the game and it's truly hard to sheildpoke him even with a chipped shield. In this matchup, you REALLY need to be creative with your spacing.

STAY WITHIN MID RANGE!
Much like you would with Falco, you don't want to be too far away from Fox. The lasers will rack up so much damage so quickly, it's not even funny. Most pro Fox's use the SHTL to enhance their camp game.
The reason I say stay in mid range is because Fox is really hard to get to, but staying in his face will increase your chances of getting a pivot grab off.

When Fox is shine stalling:


Seriously, just.....Don't do it. lol You will get *****. Fox's shine stall keeps him hovering for who knows how long. If you DO decide to go in for the attack while he's shine stalling in the air, you should most likely go for Uair(duh), but you only get ONE shot. If you miss, you will get Dair'd and you'll have to find another way to gain your momentum.

Avoiding Fox's Dair:
Really, once you get hit by it, you get hit by it. However, you CAN roll away if you sheild the entire thing. Since Yoshi's sheild is pretty much impervious to shield-poking, this is very useful for making an escape. However, Fox does that jab cancel thing also. If he get's that off Yoshi can't get out of his shield as long as Fox is continuing his jab cancel .
The only thing you can do is read his next attack (Grab, shine, or Usmash) and spotdodge it accordingly.

Yoshi can combo Fox pretty good. The probably is getting it in the hits in general. This is where you must get very creative with your spacing. Because, Fox has plently of Oos options with the biggest threat being upsmash, so he's just waiting you for to screw up and attack his sheild. I'd say space with retreating Bairs, and if you try to get inside, use Nair.

Watch out for Fox's Bair:
Seriously, I can't stress this enough. The main use of this move is to chip your shield. If you block it, that's wonderful, however, it's gonna' take alot out of that egg. Making our sheild perfectly vulnerable for a sheild break from a Dair or Usmash.

When Fox is offstage: Well, there's 2 things to thing really.

1.) Firefox:

A good Fox will make you guess where he's going to land via Firefox. But, he'll only go for one of 2 places. The edge or the stage. So, really the victor here is whoever choses the right one. If Fox lands on the ledge just use your double jump to edgehog him. If he lands on the stage, be sure to keep that Fsmash, Usmash handy.

2.) Fox Illusion:

This one's a tricky one. As Fox cancel feint his illusion. However, I'm sure you're all fully aware that Fox will probably always use this from a set distance from the stage. Anticipate when he will do it and Nair him to oblivion. The Fox Illusion may be really fast, but it sucks in priority. So, our Nair beats it anyways.

The air:
Is a baaaaaad position for Yoshi in this matchup when Fox is on the ground. The Uair is much to quick for anything we have while we're above Fox. DO NOT airdodge out of fear. That is exactly what they're looking for. One wrong airdodge, and you're dead from an Uair. My suggestion would be to aim for the ledge and use the Yoshi Bomb to get there to prevent any premeditated Usmashes.

"The hour of Up smash":
Any percentage where Fox can Usmash you to your death is called this. In this hour, you don't want to use any risky or laggy moves. Which means NO fast falled Bairs and no Dsmash. You need to be EXTRA careful about your spacing. Anything that hits Fox's sheild can be Usmashed out of so keep that in mind.


That's all I've got so far.

 

[Deleted member]

Fox's bair is kinda not great against yoshi imo.
Normally FF bair is good shield pressure but its not like yoshi will stand around shielding.

Also, i like to take advantage of the hour of usmash. Because during the hour of usmash, fox wants that usmash. So you use his wanting to usmash against him bahhaha. Usmash is a pretty big commitment, so its pretty much the 1 time fox will be straight up commiting to something, which is when we can rack up damage fast on him.

 

[NAKAT]

Woah this is still being discussed lol.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Long writeup

I like this summery lol but you forgot fox copter or w/e they call it as a recovery option. how do we handle that?

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Celes: PERFECT SPACED FAIR SPIKE!!

 

[pwiito]

I haven't played this mu in like 6 months, well at least last time I played, I hard boodied a friend of mine so I got the last laugh

 

[F-Tier Player]

Avoiding Fox's Dair
Really, once you get hit by it, you get hit by it. However, you CAN roll away if you sheild the entire thing. Since Yoshi's sheild is pretty much impervious to shield-poking, this is very useful for making an escape.

Fox's often dair > usmash. What's the earliest % kill? 100%?

Is a baaaaaad position for Yoshi in this matchup when Fox is on the ground. The Uair is much to quick for anything we have while we're above Fox. DO NOT airdodge out of fear. That is exactly what they're looking for. One wrong airdodge, and you're dead from an Uair.

Can our Dair beat his Uair in this situation?

 

[Conviction]

You guys are still discussing this? Well a little cool thing Fox can do with his Bair since yoshi's shield grab isn't that great is Bair>grab your shield because if IIRC perfectly AC'd Bair has like -2 disadv.

Idk about your dair beating our Uair. Something that would have to be tested but I highly doubt it does. Well at least when me and Scatz used to play Dair didn't beat my Uair.

XD spiking out of Fair? I want to see that.

Ehhh that's all for now I guess? if you guys are still discussing this? after I thought this was dead? Still one of my favorite MUs though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

No we're not discussing it anymore. But we can just roll after the bair's impact with our superspecialawesomeultrachocolatyfudgecovered distance increase and be safe.

 

[Snizz]

Its the same thing I posted in the Ganon matchup thread. I duel main Yoshi and Sheik so if this one ever becomes a real problem I just go Sheik and forward tilt that space animal to death. XD
I think if every Yoshi main were to secondary Sheik it would solve half their problems with matchups imo.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Fox is difficult with yoshi imo.

 

[Snizz]

No we're not discussing it anymore. But we can just roll after the bair's impact with our superspecialawesomeultrachocolatyfudgecovered distance increase and be safe.

There should be a new Yoshi main named "superspecialawesomeultrachocolatyfudgecovered"

 

[jbandrew]

Um. A good thing to note in this matchup is WHENEVER u see fox charging his Up B do not be afraid to SHFF a Dair to footstool or w/e to try and gimp him. Creativity is key!

 

[Z'zgashi]

The Fox main where I live once tried to Fire fox back as he was below the ledge and already used his DJ, and I jumped off and egg laid him over and over while he charged it, then just ledge guarded for the kill